Favorite GoGo

[Guest Astrrro]

If it turns out that the ID card is "borrowed," then I would have them make the boy leave, without the ID card, and have them tell the boy they'll just keep the card until the rightful owner shows up to claim it. I would also have them tell the boy if the owner doesn't show up within 24 hours, then he'll have to claim it at the police station because that's where the card is going.

 

I agree with all almost of your posts GB but I have to take exception with this one.

 

I would just send the boy on his merry way with the borrowed card.

 

IMHO your scenario just creates an enemy for no reason. From the boy's point of view, what gives the farang a right to take his/his friend's property. Furthermore, there seems to be no real benefit to the farang.

 

If I attempted to check into a hotel, and the hotel claimed my passport wasn't mine and therefore refused to give me a room, I could live with it.

 

But if they took my passport and refused to return it I'd be furious.

 

[Gaybutton]

From the boy's point of view, what gives the farang a right to take his/his friend's property.

The farang isn't taking anything. The hotel is. What gives them the right? In my opinion the same thing that gives the boy the right to use someone else's ID card in order to cheat a farang into believing he is 18 when he is actually under-age, placing the farang in jeopardy of being arrested. Yes, if a hotel took my passport I'd be furious too, but if I could end up going to jail because of someone trying to cheat, I be a little more furious. If a boy is using an ID card that isn't his own, then the card isn't his in the first place.

 

I don't know if hotels actually keep the ID card or not when it's perfectly obvious to the desk clerk that it isn't his, but personally I hope that's exactly what they do. Let the boy argue about it with the clerk. I doubt that hotels actually hold the ID card when a boy is trying to cheat, but if they don't I wish they would. If a boy knows that would happen, maybe he'd be a little less likely to try cheating. I'd much rather have a boy angry with me than for me to possibly end up arrested.

 

One of my favorite stories comes from Jim Lumsden, of Boyz Boyz Boyz and the Ambiance. One of his desk clerks had either had his wallet stolen or had lost it (I can't remember which). His ID card was in the wallet. A few days later a farang staying at the Ambiance came in with a bar boy he had taken off. It is the policy at the Ambiance for the desk clerk to check ID cards of any boy entering the hotel, no matter what his age appears to be. The desk clerk was immediately suspicious that the boy was under age. When he checked the ID card the boy was carrying it turned out to be his own missing ID card! Whoops!

 

Another favorite of mine happened to Geezer. I was with him for this one. We were in a bar and there was a boy Geezer liked and wanted to take off. Geezer is smart enough to be particularly careful about checking ID cards. He asked the boy to show him his ID card. The boy quickly disappeared and returned with an ID card and proudly placed it in Geezer's hand. Geezer took a look at it and was a little suspicious. He asked the boy, "When is your birthday?" The boy understood the question perfectly, but his answer was, "I don't know." End of the boy getting an off that night . . .

 

 

[Guest laurence]

He asked the boy, "When is your birthday?" The boy understood the question perfectly, but his answer was, "I don't know." End of the boy getting an off that night . . .

 

I bet if you asked Geezer the same question, his answer would be the same as the boy. 555

 

[Gaybutton]

I bet if you asked Geezer the same question, his answer would be the same as the boy. 555

Not Geezer. If I know him, before that night was over he definitely found someone and the boy got off and so did Geezer.

[Guest]

If it turns out that the ID card is "borrowed," then I would have them make the boy leave, without the ID card, and have them tell the boy they'll just keep the card until the rightful owner shows up to claim it. I would also have them tell the boy if the owner doesn't show up within 24 hours, then he'll have to claim it at the police station because that's where the card is going.

 

Assuming the boy can remember the name & birth data on the card, then how would the hotel determine if it's borrowed?

Obviously the picture doesn't give it away, as the punter should have checked that thoroughly before leaving the bar.

 

[Gaybutton]

Obviously the picture doesn't give it away, as the punter should have checked that thoroughly before leaving the bar.

That's precisely the part that is not obvious. That's the problem. Quite often the photo is several years old, the hair style is different, etc. It can be very difficult to tell whether the photo on the ID card is actually the boy you wish to take off or not.

[Guest Astrrro]

I agree 100% that it'd be great if the boys knew that hotels would confiscate phoney IDs that would certainly discourage underage boys from going to hotels.

 

I've never heard of it happening though. It doesn't seem part of Thai culture to operate this way, mai bhen rai. What we need is the vice principal, pun intended, of my old high school, as a Pattaya hotel desk clerk.

 

Of course it'd also be great if you knew that certain bars, never, ever, hire underage boys. If a boy has done a professional porno shoot you can be pretty sure he's 18+ though.

 

As far as the picture matching the face, it's particularly problematic for guys who like ladyboys as the pics from a few years ago are often very different from the way they look today.

[Gaybutton]

If a boy has done a professional porno shoot you can be pretty sure he's 18+ though.

I don't understand. How can the fact that a boy has done a professional porno shoot guarantee that he is 18+ ?

[Guest Astrrro]

I don't understand. How can the fact that a boy has done a professional porno shoot guarantee that he is 18+ ?

 

Well I guess there are never any 100% ironclad guarantees in life, but my understanding is that the porno sites are very careful to hire models who are 18+. They can get in a heap of trouble with the American authorities if they don't. And it's all out there for the cyberpolice to document. I was told that one website has their photographers take a picture of the boy holding his ID for documentation.

 

But still the bottom line for me is that he must clearly look 18+ plus have a legit looking ID to prove it.

And it's always good to ask a boy's birthday to make sure it matches the ID.

[Gaybutton]

They can get in a heap of trouble with the American authorities if they don't.

Thai pornographers and Thai boys doing photo shoots for them would concern themselves about American law and American authorities? I don't understand your reasoning. To me that's the same as saying people ought to avoid doing something in Thailand because it's against the law in Bangladesh. I'm sorry if I'm missing something, but you're not making any sense to me on this one.

[Guest shebavon]

"To me that's the same as saying people ought to avoid doing something in Thailand because it's against the law in Bangladesh."

 

Ah, the long arm of the law. We know it is illegal for an American citizen, and prosecutable by American authorities for one to have relations with anyone below 18.

 

Where and who may have taken the photos of supposed underage models means nothing if you are being charged with possession of prohibited materials.

 

 

While Bangladesh may confer more privileges on their travelling citizens, America has a different policy.

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Many IDs are hard to determine if it is really the boy. I like the newer ones that have a better picture, and have both birth dates in the Thai years and our own calendar. They make it a lot easier to determine if you have a legal boy.

[Guest shebavon]

I am not sure when, but pretty soon, having an old ID might be considered proof of old age.

[Gaybutton]

While Bangladesh may confer more privileges on their traveling citizens, America has a different policy.

I'm well aware of that. However Astrrro seems to think that a boy who has done a porn shoot is likely to be 18+ years old. I don't see the logic behind that.

 

Meanwhile, why are you talking about American policy? What does that have to do with the age of a Thai boy who has done a porn shoot? Maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't think Thai boys, living in Thailand, who do porn shoots in Thailand are subject to American policies and laws.

[Guest shebavon]

The boys are not, but you might be if turns out that the age of the boy is questioned by American authorities and you are charged with child porn. Rightfully or not.

[Gaybutton]

The boys are not, but you might be if turns out that the age of the boy is questioned by American authorities and you are charged with child porn. Rightfully or not.

You're absolutely right, but that's a totally different point. The point at hand is, at least my point is, that I don't see how one can rely on the idea that a Thai boy who has been involved with porn is necessarily 18+ years old and I'm trying to understand why Astrrro believes that you can (for off purposes).

[Guest]

I'd still like to hear theories why people think hotel staff will be better at spotting borrowed ID cards than the punters.

 

OK they could question the boys in Thai, but this doesn't happen in my limited experience.

 

Ultimately the punter is the one with the responsibility to act within the law.

 

Sorry for being pedantic, but this is an important point (or it would be for anyone who gets it wrong).

[Gaybutton]

I'd still like to hear theories why people think hotel staff will be better at spotting borrowed ID cards than the punters.

Are you serious? I'll start with the fact that hotel staff are native to the country, speak and read the language, grew up with ID cards, are far more used to the tricks than a foreigner on a one or two week holiday, probably haven't been drinking that night, are not looking forward to sex with the boy, and are looking at these ID cards, probably several of them, every day.

 

If your hotel desk clerk tells you the ID card is either fake or doesn't belong to the boy, are you really going to stand there and tell him he's wrong and try to take the boy to your room anyway?

 

You're right in that the responsibility is ultimately yours. So, if there is any doubt in your mind or any doubt in the desk clerk's mind, then very simple: Don't take the boy to your room.

[Guest Astrrro]

Thai pornographers and Thai boys doing photo shoots for them would concern themselves about American law and American authorities?

 

GB, I'm talking about Western pornographers that are incorporated in the USA with a server located in the USA or elsewhere in a 1st world country. The photos get taken in Thailand though.

 

 

[Gaybutton]

GB, I'm talking about Western pornographers

Ach soooooooooooooo! (Sefton, "Stalag 17")

 

Now that makes some sense.

[Guest Astrrro]

Great movie GB!

 

Then there's Sgt Schultz from the highly dysfunctional Stalag 13, "I know nothing".

[Guest]

Are you serious?

 

I'm very serious.

Also, I do agree with you on some points -if the clerk questions the ID card, the boy would be returned to the bar with a polite request for a refund -he would certainly not be visiting my room.

 

Now I figure the boy also can read & speak Thai, so as long as he's smart enough to memorize the name & birthdate on the card, then he can answer any questions from the hotel staff.

 

The key point is to remember hotel staff give just another opinion -it's not like they scan the guys fingerprint & check it on some central database is it? Ultimately, it might not matter much to the hotel staff, as they're not committing an offence when they let the guy in.

Ultimately it's the punters responsibility to stay within legal & moral boundaries.

 

 

Anyway, sorry for taking this thread ever further away from Favourite GoGo.

 

Funny Boys was rather nice .

[Gaybutton]

Now I figure the boy also can read & speak Thai, so as long as he's smart enough to memorize the name & birthdate on the card, then he can answer any questions from the hotel staff.

 

The key point is to remember hotel staff give just another opinion

You're starting to get into 'what ifs' and 'maybes.' Between your own scrutiny and that of the hotel staff, that's the best you can do. If that still isn't enough for your peace of mind, then the only thing I can suggest is to take the boy to the police station first, have them check his ID, and have them give you a written, notarized statement that the boy is 18+ years old. Either that, or stop taking boys off at all.

 

There comes a time when caution begins to lapse into paranoia.

[Guest Astrrro]

take the boy to the police station first, have them check his ID, and have them give you a written, notarized statement that the boy is 18+ years old.

 

That would be a wonderful service! Perhaps worth 500 baht. B)

 

A notarized statement disclosing recent HIV test results would be nice too, although that doesn't mean he absolutely does not have HIV.

 

As much as we would like to control life, we can't be sure of anything. Lightning can strike or we can be run over by a rabid baht bus driver. But we can minimize risk, and should endeavor to so.

 

[Guest GaySacGuy]

Probably the old saying "If is seems to be too good, it probably isn't". If the boy looks and acts under 18 he probably is under 18. And why take any chances??? If you take a boy from a bar and show reasonable caution, you aren't going to get into trouble..and no one following those simple ideas has gotten in trouble that anyone can verify.

 

Just be reasonable and have fun!!!