Brazil January- February

[Riobard]

[Deleted]

[Axiom2020]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

 

I erred.

 

[SolaceSoul]

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

Our experiences are very different

Of course they are, because we are clearly not into the same kinds of garotos. The ones you are raving about here (even as examples) are, in general, the physical type that command average prices, not prices above the margins.

As I stated several times before already, I said certain kinds of sauna garotos will command a higher price — and I was specifically referring to *some” of the muscle gods. They are asking for (and getting) $200R (NOT $200 — which is obviously a different currency altogether) per programa at the saunas in Rio and São Psulo — whether you like it or not. I’m not aware of any average build, slim build or twink garotos asking and/or getting that price of 200 reais at saunas (but admittedly, they have never really been on my radar, so there could be a few).

 

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

Actually, I’ve never been hit up for money by any sex-worker until early 2021.

Unless you just joined the world of international male whoremongering in the last year or so (I’ll limit this to LATAM and Africa, I cannot speak for Asia, anf Europe pricing and economy is mostly similar to that of USA / Canada), your experience (or rather, lack thereof) in this regard would be HIGHLY unusual if you communicate with the workers once you’re back home. This kind of initiation into “the club” normally occurs very quickly with gringos. 

 

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

I’d never pay $200+ in a Brazilian sauna for a programa for 20-30 min. Nope.

Fortunately, for you, every garoto isn’t charging, nor can every one of them command even if they asked, 200 reais at the saunas. So, you’re safe. 

To be clear, it’s R$200, not $200. That’s not a quibble but there’s a huge monetary difference between 200 US dollars and 200 Brazilian reais, like close to 160 US dollars of a difference. Your recalcitrance on this subject seems almost as if you believe it’s dollars, not reais, that we are discussing here. 

And like I said above, you’re most likely not going to encounter the few who are asking for that amount if those models that you posted are the type you’re pursuing. That’s not shade or a diss, it just is what it is.

You have just had two long-time, regular, frequent, recently visiting Brazil posters (myself and the one who is far more revered here, @Tomcal) confirm for you that, yes, certain muscle boys / gogo boys ARE commanding 200 reais for sauna programas, and yet you STILL deny it is happening. This is like a really bad comedy! 

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

When you pay too much for anything, you look like a fool and the locals are not happy. You’re also quickly identified as an easy “mark” as the boys all talk.

I see this posted here and on other similar boards (gay AND straight), and it doesn’t hold up well under scrutiny. This is usually the argument of a cheapskate who wants cheap sex tourism in underdeveloped markets and who bristles at the thought of paying an extra $9 USD for sexual interaction with an actual living, breathing human body.

First of all, the workers are independent capitalists, they set their own prices individually and they will make what they can command on the market. If a less desirable guy asks for a larger amount and keeps getting turned down, eventually he will reduce his price to what the market will bear, or he will go home penniless. If a highly desired guy sees that clients (and yes, local clients, too!) are gladly willing to pay at 150 reais and there’s a line waiting for him in the hall, he might try to up the ante by pushing it to 200 reais. And if he can get it? God bless him and God bless capitalism! He might also decide to have a two-tier pricing system, one for locals and one for tourists— or a two-tier system for Brazilians and gringos. Or old guys and young dudes. Or fat clients and fit ones. His body, his choice. Your wallet, your choice. If you don’t want to pay the price, move on to the next one. If he makes enough off his rate, God bless him. If he doesn’t, he might lower it to average market prices or decide to get out of saunas altogether. But there aren’t really many locals whining about tourists fucking up their prices — if anything, I hear the reverse, more tourist clients complaining that they aren’t getting cheaper local rates!

(And if you think there isn’t an unofficial two-tier pricing system for gringos, try renting an apartment in Rio or São Paulo sounding and looking like a gringo. Oh, the advantages of being an Afro-Latino who is fluent in Portuguese…RsRsRs). 

And, like @axiom2001 mentioned above, prices don’t always stay the same. It was 50 reais when he visited Rio over 15 years ago. The prices were around 100 reais in Rio and São Paulo and 80 reais in Salvador and Recife when I first started going to Brazil 11 years ago. Some clients bitched then and some clients still bitch now. But prices of goods and other services in Brazil keep rising almost exponentially. You want the sex workers to keep living like it’s 1999? Well, Prince is dead, and so are those prices. 
 

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

The Brazilians I know at BCN Termas … are charming, fun, polite and extremely good at what they do.

Well, you DID say they are Brazilian.

Seriously, there are some Brazilians who are regularly at Thermas who used to work at Brazilian saunas and are now in BCN permanently. A few are more my physical type and based on your posts, probably not your speed. I can guarantee you if and when they return to Brazilian saunas on family visits, they are charging the rates that you are gasping over. 

(I am purposely not mentioning names here.)

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

The guys I posted (Roscarino & Felipino) don’t actually work in saunas bc they make too much money via OnlyFans. Felipino doesn’t even do GP work, online only.  Roscarino may occasionally do GP work, not absolutely sure.  Appears you’re judging them based on appearances only & not their actual value relative to their social media following and how they monetize.

Of course, I am absolutely judging them on appearance! Only a small minority of sauna clients care about a garoto’s social media following and how they monetize their bases.  The overwhelming majority of clients are about the visual and what a garoto looks like physically in person. This board does serve a purpose, but it is not (or the majority of regular posters are not) really representative of most clients. (If one only knew the scene from this board, one might think that the most desired garotos at saunas were 20 year old hairless twinks.)

That being said, I repeat like a broken record — their physical type was NOT the type I mentioned when I said “SOME muscle boys in Rio and São Paulo saunas are asking for and getting 200 reais for a 30 minute sauna programa.”

Why is that so difficult to process?

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

The Brazilians I know in Spain are there because they make way more money than in Brazil - not even close.  If it was close, then the obvious choice would be to remain in Brazil w much lower cost of living.

Disregarding the amount of money earned at saunas, there are other reasons some Brazilians might prefer to live / work in Spain / Europe over Brazil. I personally love Brazil in spite of all of its quirks and idiosyncrasies, but a number of Brazilians are itching to get out — especially now while the economy is in the toilet and there’s lots of political uncertainty. 

6 hours ago, Slvkguy said:

“Exotic” is very outdated language when applied to ethnicity or nationalities in general - usually coded language for People of Color. Not a great choice of words.

I’m Afro-Latino. I’m well aware of the weight of the word. That’s why it was placed in quotes. But thanks for the whitesplaining. 

[SolaceSoul]

3 hours ago, bucknaway said:

If I am expected to pay American prices in a foreign land then why leave America?  If a trip to Rio would cost me dollar for dollar as a trip to Miami or Hollywood then I would beat feet to Hollywood and Miami.

Do you keep that same energy when you go to Europe? Because RentMen (ad) prices in Europe are the same or more in most popular areas of Europe as they are in the USA. 

[Guest]

this has become painful - I can’t even read all that.  good luck w all of your endeavors 

[floridarob]

1 hour ago, SolaceSoul said:

Oh, the advantages of being an Afro-Latino who is fluent in Portuguese…RsRsRs

I'll bet that sword cuts both ways. I notice the different way me AND the guy I'm with are treated in some places depending on his color. I went to Papa Jack in Copa, their pizza is good, only served at night. The guy with me said to look around, he's the only black guy there (he's brown on the spectrum to me). That people like him usually don't get to go places like that. It's not fancy at all, but I got what he was saying, Cuba is even worse for this in my experience.

 

1 hour ago, SolaceSoul said:

The ones you are raving about here (even as examples) are, in general, the physical type that command average prices, not prices above the margins.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder....you'd never see me with a Barbie yet the guy next door type catches my attention. Both in Thailand and Brasil, I'll frequently think "who would go with THAT guy" and shortly after, he has a customer. A car salesman said to me before, talking about ugly cars, there's an ass for EVERY seat, thank goodness for me, lol

[Riobard]

I had a peek at one of the Twitter profiles referenced … 450,400 Followers even. 
Update: 450,400 even. 

[SolaceSoul]

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

I'll bet that sword cuts both ways. I notice the different way me AND the guy I'm with are treated in some places depending on his color

Oh, absolutely! And that’s a whole separate, lengthy conversation (that me and my fellow Black / Latine travelers and expats often have). The “advantage”, though, that I was referring to earlier comes with the passport privilege of being black or brown AND American or European.

Look, in Rio, I always stay in Ipanema, Leblon, Lagoa or the “Copanema” end of Copacabana closest to Arpoador— the “toniest” areas of Zona Sul — and I physically look like and often get confused for a Baiano, so I often initially get the same treatment that your Brazilian friend did at restaurants and stores. But that ALL changes as soon as I open my mouth and purposely bring out my gringo! One major reason many black Americans enjoy travel abroad and/or become expats is that abroad, we get the “white privilege” with our blue passports (yes, and often dollars) that frankly, isn’t afforded to us in the USA.

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

Cuba is even worse for this in my experience.

And the Dominican Republic. I have stories. Boy, do I have stories! 
 

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder....you'd never see me with a Barbie yet the guy next door type catches my attention. Both in Thailand and Brasil, I'll frequently think "who would go with THAT guy" and shortly after, he has a customer. A car salesman said to me before, talking about ugly cars, there's an ass for EVERY seat, thank goodness for me, lol

Yes, but this is a bit defensive and glosses over the point of my original post. It wasn’t meant to be a judgment about clients’ tastes in men, like saying “my type is better than yours!” It was a factual observation about pricing schemes. The type you prefer are generally going to be in a certain price range (and for those who are looking to save a few dollars, that should be a good thing, right?). The type I mentioned above — the muscle gods, the “Barbies”, if you will (I loathe that term, can they at least be Kens?) — tend to be the ones who ask for (and get) higher prices. It doesn’t mean they are more attractive or better — it just is what it is. 

I don’t mention names here, because the walls have eyes, and this stuff posted online does get back to the workers, and these relationships are built on trust (and money, too). But I could literally tell you who thr “Kings of 117” and the “Kings of 202” (to a lesser degree, Lagoa) currently are and who they were in the last decade. I know what they charge and what the former kings used to charge when they were on top. 

That being said, my friends that I semi-often travel with or who come to visit me when I’m there are not really into my type. I’m usually the odd man out. We all like different things. So I get what you’re saying about beauty and the beholder. But that’s also another way I know pricing schemes of different kinds of garotos. Their guys are almost always currently in that $100 - $150 reais range at saunas and never above it. 

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

It wasn’t meant to be a judgment about clients’ tastes in men, like saying “my type is better than yours!”

It came across that way

 

5 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

Their guys are almost always currently in that $100 - $150 reais range at saunas and never above it. 

I know some guys that do 5 programas a night at this price for quantity, making 750 while the 300 muscle guy is happy with one 🤨

I've gone with a couple of muscle guys over the last 22 yrs in Brasil and is not my thing because they are so into themselves, that's why they spend so much time working out?

I like Humble guys that are cute/handsome without the superior complex.

 

5 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

One major reason many black Americans enjoy travel abroad and/or become expats is that abroad, we get the “white privilege” with our blue passports (yes, and often dollars) that frankly, isn’t afforded to us in the USA.

Yes, I agree..... recently when I arrived in SP, the immigration guy wanted to see my Brasilian passport. He insisted I was form Brasil and was using my USA passport for some reason. Some people think I'm from Brasil, a white Brasilian from the south and I speak portuguese good at times, since I've lived in Mexico, I'm losing/forgetting some portuguese words and default to Spanish now in those cases, that's the give away. But back to the immigration guy, once I started speaking English and he realized I was a gringo, his tone changed and he apologized for assuming I was Brasilian, so the Blue Passport does come in handy.

 

5 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

And the Dominican Republic. I have stories. Boy, do I have stories! 

No doubt, DR is Cuba with McDonald's and KFC 

[bucknaway]

17 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

Do you keep that same energy when you go to Europe? Because RentMen (ad) prices in Europe are the same or more in most popular areas of Europe as they are in the USA. 

Never been to Europe.  I don't ever plan to... So the price for apples are not the same as the price for oranges I guess...  I don't want to pay orange prices for apples.  

[Axiom2020]

On 9/21/2021 at 12:54 PM, Alaskabear said:

After hemming and hawing between a short trip to the Dominican Republic this fall or a larger trip to Brazil later this winter I chose delayed gratification and bought tickets to Rio!   
 

This will be my first trip to Brazil and my first trip after covid hit.   My plan is two weeks in Rio, a few days in Salvador, a few days in Iguazu and finishing off the trip in São Paulo. I’ve got a few questions if any of you all have answers. 
 

I’d like to stay in an area that’s also good for my straight companion who’ll be visiting with me for a week in Rio.   Looking for a good area with lots of food options, tourist friendly and a good place for a first time visitor.   He’s going to be hitting up the girlie places while I hit up the gay places.  Thoughts?  
 

I also want to stop by Iguazu falls for a day or two and I’m wondering if I should use Curitiba or Porto Alegre as a gateway city or just fly from Rio to Iguazu.   A couple of days in a fun city in that region would be great to contrast to a couple days I have planned for Salvador.   
 

As for Rio saunas from my social media feed it seems pointe and 117 are open.  Are any other saunas open in that general vicinity?   I haven’t remembered the fate of lions club.   
 

Definitely looking forward to a good trip.   

Have a wonderful trip and stay safe! 

Bon voyage and report back when you get the opportunity.

[scott456]

9 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

One major reason many black Americans enjoy travel abroad and/or become expats is that abroad, we get the “white privilege” with our blue passports (yes, and often dollars) that frankly, isn’t afforded to us in the USA.

Do you feel the same "white privilege" when you travel to Europe or Asia?       

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, scott456 said:

Do you feel the same "white privilege" when you travel to Europe or Asia?   

Absolutely. black Americans are treated like stars on those continents. I travel to Europe much more than Asia, but my experiences and the experiences of my fellow black American travelers in Europe and Asia are similar in that regard. 

[bucknaway]

1 hour ago, SolaceSoul said:

Absolutely. black Americans are treated like stars on those continents. I travel to Europe much more than Asia, but my experiences and the experiences of my fellow black American travelers in Europe and Asia are similar in that regard. 

In Thailand I was treated like a celebrity.  The only time I experienced any racial issue was in Pattaya when a bar stopped me at the door because they thought I was Indian.  They told me in the future, if the issue happened again, to tell the person at the door that I am American...

[floridarob]

More than once I've seen in Italy, Spain, Mexico and Indonesia, arriving at Immigration or Customs, black guys being detained and questioned whereas  their white friends weren't. I remember thinking, I'll bet it's for their skin color as there was no apparent reason. I could see the look in the officers eyes, the same look I see when I see someone I know to be racist and a black or brown person walks by.

SolaceSoul, as you said you've seen worse in the D.R.....must be maddening.

I sat next to Joe Clark once on a flight, the guy lean on me was based on. He had a super interesting perspective on being black, none of which i expected.

He wants blacks to forget the past and move forward. He said when you live in the past you can't move forward to the future. Also, he said he hates when people say that you don't know what it's like to be black, he said he doesn't know what it's like to be white or Asian either. That he was glad of slavery, because there was no other way that he would've been on this continent and lived the life that he did. Many other things too, these just stand out in my memory.

on another note, back to the topic.... I have tix to Brasil, hopefully I can make it. My mom had a light stroke a couple of weeks ago, but it changed a lot of things from her being independent to needing daily help bathing, dressing, doing physical therapy exercise and preparing her daily meals. If I go I'll be in Rio & SP Oct 11-26....

[scott456]

I am not black.  But I think people still judge me based on my appearance: how I look, how tall/short I am, what I wear and how I talk. Of course one is expected to wear and act in certain way if staying at 5 stars hotels, fly business class, or dine at fancy restaurants.  Pre-covid time at GRU, there used to be one handsome officer standing at the start of immigration line greeting/directing arriving passenger.  He knows the first few passengers are always first/business class and he was super friendly and greet/chat with these passengers.  Then, a total different attitude toward the following big crowd.  This is no racial discrimination, it's "class" discrimination. 

[SolaceSoul]

6 hours ago, floridarob said:

It came across that way.

I cannot be responsible for how you may receive or process information. a lesson I learned years ago., when I stopped dating women.  Facts over feelings.
 

6 hours ago, floridarob said:

I've gone with a couple of muscle guys over the last 22 yrs in Brasil and is not my thing because they are so into themselves, that's why they spend so much time working out?

I like Humble guys that are cute/handsome without the superior complex.

I didn’t realize that this was even a discussion about WHY we like or don’t like certain kinds of guys. But what you said above is all just a matter of personal perception. I don’t see them the way you described them at all, I am “friendly” with a lot of them and their personalities vary just like in any other group of people. That to me is just a stereotype or gross overgeneralization, like “all fat girls are funny”. But a little cockiness in a guy doesn’t faze me much, anyway. One of my travel partners likes them slim and short (with big dicks), and he says one of the turn-ons is they make up for their size and stature by being cocky and super forward and aggressive — whereas when they approach me, I merely find their behavior to be annoying.

So, like I said above, it’s all just a matter of perception (we tend to excuse or find attractive the same negative behaviors from the people we like — human nature). 

This should be a Ted Talk!

[SolaceSoul]

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

More than once I've seen in Italy, Spain, Mexico and Indonesia, arriving at Immigration or Customs, black guys being detained and questioned whereas  their white friends weren't. I remember thinking, I'll bet it's for their skin color as there was no apparent reason. I could see the look in the officers eyes, the same look I see when I see someone I know to be racist and a black or brown person walks by.

Black African immigrants and Arab / Middle Eastern immigrants get treated poorly in many parts of Europe (France, Italy, Spain, especially). Black Americans, at least once it’s known thry are black Americans, receive much better treatment. Black Africans are treated there in Europe like Black Americans (and Haitians) are treated here in the USA. I’m not suggesting that racism against black people doesn’t exist in Europe — that would be a stupid assertion — but it manifests itself much differently there for black Americans than it does here in the USA — where it’s racism on steroids, and everyone has a gun. 

 

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

I sat next to Joe Clark once on a flight, the guy lean on me was based on. He had a super interesting perspective on being black, none of which i expected.

He wants blacks to forget the past and move forward. He said when you live in the past you can't move forward to the future. Also, he said he hates when people say that you don't know what it's like to be black, he said he doesn't know what it's like to be white or Asian either. That he was glad of slavery, because there was no other way that he would've been on this continent and lived the life that he did. Many other things too, these just stand out in my memory.

Well, Principal Joe Clark is dead. He died at the end of 2020. But behind the mystique of his book and movie, he’d always been a super staunch conservative, politically and religiously. I’m not surprised at all that he would express these views to people he had just met on a plane. 

[SolaceSoul]

53 minutes ago, scott456 said:

I am not black.  But I think people still judge me based on my appearance: how I look, how tall/short I am, what I wear and how I talk. Of course one is expected to wear and act in certain way if staying at 5 stars hotels, fly business class, or dine at fancy restaurants.  Pre-covid time at GRU, there used to be one handsome officer standing at the start of immigration line greeting/directing arriving passenger.  He knows the first few passengers are always first/business class and he was super friendly and greet/chat with these passengers.  Then, a total different attitude toward the following big crowd.  This is no racial discrimination, it's "class" discrimination. 

I don’t get the point of your post. Were you feeling left out of the conversation? 

[SolaceSoul]

19 hours ago, floridarob said:

No doubt, DR is Cuba with McDonald's and KFC 

And I hope a McDonald’s or a KFC never surfaces on the island of Cuba. Dominicans have gotten more obese and less into fitness since the spread of American fast food restaurants on their side of Hispaniola.  

That being said, the island of Cuba is much more Afrocentric than you may realize. Many of the “white” Cubans or their families left for Miami (and bite like white Florida Republicans), while the black Cubans remain on the island. Black Americans and Black Europeans get treated very well there and are privy to some very interesting private conversations about Afro-Cuban life. 

The Castros may have been a lot of bad things, but they were very pro-Black diaspora. I actually have a Black American female friend who went to medical school there for free, because she was African-American. 

Although it is improving a bit, the DR suffers from horrible colorism issues, which manifests itself through a virulently racist and colorist anti-Haitian public policy. Black Americans and Black Europeans are normally insulated from the brunt of this, but we can still witness it and it is troubling. 

Someone above tried to throw in classism, conveniently ignoring that, especially in Latin and South America, classism and race / color are intertwined. 

[Riobard]

@Alaskabear, at the risk of coming across as tone-deaf, current record-level drought obviously with far-reaching local consequences beyond tourists’ agendas, it might be advisable to track the water levels that determine how the Falls are doing on a continuum from relative trickle to the volume that prompted Eleanor Roosevelt’s proclamation “poor Niagara!”.

Spring rains might replenish but are unpredictable. These are topics arising regularly in national news. If the drought doesn’t let up, I also wonder about prospective hydro and water rationing, though access may be determined across hierarchies of privilege inequity. 

Personally, fortunately for me, a November cross-National 48-hr evening-to-evening visit to Iguaçu some years ago was very satisfying, full daytimes each side. 

My only other observation at this time is that packing in too many destinations can be qualitatively shortchanging, especially if you have future prospects for returning. 

[floridarob]

5 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

I cannot be responsible for how you may receive or process information. a lesson I learned years ago., when I stopped dating women.  Facts over feelings.

Someone's perception is their reality, nothing to do with facts 😇

[SolaceSoul]

On 9/21/2021 at 3:54 PM, Alaskabear said:

I also want to stop by Iguazu falls for a day or two and I’m wondering if I should use Curitiba or Porto Alegre as a gateway city or just fly from Rio to Iguazu.   A couple of days in a fun city in that region would be great to contrast to a couple days I have planned for Salvador.

@Alaskabear, starting 11/1, Argentina is opening its borders to foreigners with proof of COVID vaccine and a negative COVID test taken within 72 hours of arrival. The return into Brazil requires a negative COVID test taken within 72 hours of re-entry as well.

So, what you need to do is: take the COVID antigen test at the Drogaria farmacia in Brazil, and make sure the test is taken within 72 hours of your crossing over into both the Argentine side of Iguaçu Falls AND your return to the Brazil side.

Here’s a link with more info:

https://iguazufalls.com/national-park/

 

 

 

[Riobard]

1 hour ago, SolaceSoul said:

@Alaskabear, starting 11/1, Argentina is opening its borders to foreigners with proof of COVID vaccine and a negative COVID test taken within 72 hours of arrival. The return into Brazil requires a negative COVID test taken within 72 hours of re-entry as well.

So, what you need to do is: take the COVID antigen test at the Drogaria farmacia in Brazil, and make sure the test is taken within 72 hours of your crossing over into both the Argentine side of Iguaçu Falls AND your return to the Brazil side.

Here’s a link with more info:

https://iguazufalls.com/national-park/

 

 

 

Good advice. OCD-grade forewarned/forearmed nuances to consider investigating … I’m not going to drill down to see if my queries are even relevant. I have done and dusted this excursion. 

Does earlier 1Oct date qualify for non-border nationals coming from a border country, eg American originating in Brazil? I would guess it’s based on nationality, not origin border nation, for entry from border nation to Argentina. 

Remember that a rapid antigen test for entry to USA is not the same as RT-PCR standard for entry to Brazil or Argentina, Canada etc. So make sure you’re getting the correct assay. Are Brazil drogarias doing the more complex RT-PCR? My take from an earlier discussion at the front end of this mandate was that specialized pricier lab-centric centres were necessary, and with anxiety-producing turnaround times. 

Is there an end-date ‘shelf-life’ for dates of your inoculation? Some countries define (or defined) an arbitrary temporal period. I don’t think it applies here since neither country has even achieved full vaccination to the high levels needed and which citizens are keen for. 

Is there an online health declaration for Argentina? BTW we Canadians had to have a purchased Visa for crossing to Argentina. And do you have to redo the online health declaration over again when crossing back to Brazil? 

[Riobard]

Similarly, if going directly from a smaller city to The Falls you may find the origin a bit light on RT-PCR resources. However, as Brazilians travel to nations, thru hubs, that require it I assume the testing resources exist in many places.