Expats are included in Thailand’s vaccination plan

[Guest]

Just for comparison, people legally residing in the UK and registered with the NHS are getting vaccinations.   That includes temporary residents, such as overseas students who are only here for a year or so.   

This is the correct policy, as to discriminate on the grounds of nationality makes no sense and why would any country risk damaging it's reputation be  prioritizing it's own nationals ahead of other people legally residing in the country ?      

Is Thailand not concerned about doing the right thing AND how this looks ?

 

[spoon]

1 hour ago, z909 said:

Just for comparison, people legally residing in the UK and registered with the NHS are getting vaccinations.   That includes temporary residents, such as overseas students who are only here for a year or so.   

This is the correct policy, as to discriminate on the grounds of nationality makes no sense and why would any country risk damaging it's reputation be  prioritizing it's own nationals ahead of other people legally residing in the country ?      

Is Thailand not concerned about doing the right thing AND how this looks ?

 

TIT

[TotallyOz]

Yep, confusions for sure

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/crimecourtscalamity/2021/06/08/foreigners-vaccine-registration-kicks-off-with-chaos-and-confusion/

 

 

[vinapu]

13 hours ago, z909 said:

 

This is the correct policy, as to discriminate on the grounds of nationality makes no sense and why would any country risk damaging it's reputation be  prioritizing it's own nationals ahead of other people legally residing in the country

 

I'd say any people in the country , legal or otherwise. If not virus have more room to roam and mutate and that is not good for anybody ,even most  rightful residents

[traveller123]

On 6/6/2021 at 1:06 AM, anddy said:

you are one of the few lucky ones then, congrats!

Well @anddy I did indeed speak too soon.

A friends Thai wife saw a post on the internet that all vaccine appointments not made on the official app were being cancelled - my appointment was made at an outreach clinic of the local hospital where my details were entered manually on a register.

We went to the vaccination site this morning to find out if I was on the register - and of course I wasn't.

A lady member of staff there played about on her computer and said she had made me an appointment for August 5th which is considerably later than my original June 23rd.

Frustrating but TIT I'll find out if I'm going to be jabbed in 8 weeks time.

 

 

[spoon]

5 hours ago, vinapu said:

I'd say any people in the country , legal or otherwise. If not virus have more room to roam and mutate and that is not good for anybody ,even most  rightful residents

Cant agree more. The homeless, the illegals, the prisoners, basically all who can be infected, and spread the virus needs to be vaccinated.

[PeterRS]

I registered on Monday and just got the date and time for the first jab. My taxi driver today was even displaying his official card showing he had received both shots in early May and then early June.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, vinapu said:

I'd say any people in the country , legal or otherwise. If not virus have more room to roam and mutate and that is not good for anybody ,even most  rightful residents

There is certainly a case for that policy, although on the other hand, if a country makes life too comfortable for illegals, that country gets more illegals.       I see both points of view & am undecided.

Having checked, it appears UK illegal immigrants are entitled to covid vaccines and treatment, with no investigation of immigration status.  

However, all of my comments are off topic and any expats in Thailand are probably more interested in the vaccination roll out, so this is the type of thread that should be kept on topic.  

Well done PeterRS.   Do you know which vaccine you will get ?

[Patanawet]

Hear hear.    Please keep at least this thread on topic.

Let's know if any expats actually get  real appointments (mine seems to be 1st of Jan. 1970) and jabs.

[reader]

As every day passes, it becomes increasingly clear that Thailand faces a steeper uphill challenge in controlling the current wave unless it can first address the outbreak in the over 400 migrant worker camps in Bangkok (see article below). This was a problem first identified nearly 18 months ago and continues to be the major source of new infections. It may not be the politically expedient thing to do but it's certainly the best medical and humanitarian course to follow.

From PBS Thai World / Thaiger

So expats can get vaccines in the rollout. But… how?

With mass vaccination finally underway, one demographic hangs in an uncertain balance for vaccines more than any other: Thailand’s 3 million expats. After months of back and forth with foreigners being told they will get vaccines, then they wouldn’t, then they’d have to pay, then they’d have to wait until after all Thais, and finally that all expats would be vaccinated alongside Thais as a part of the vaccine rollout.

And now confusion still swirls around how exactly foreigners are able to get a Covid-19 vaccine. While countless government officials have claimed that expats can get their jabs now, the actual steps they need to take are very unclear. A government spokesman has even now told foreigners to just hang on and await further instructions.

Starting June 7, older expats over 60 or having one of the 7 chronic diseases that are deemed high-risk for Covid-19 infections can register online for vaccines. Foreigners must provide a social security number connected to a passport or work permit. The US Embassy has suggested that Americans contact whatever local hospital has medical records for them.

Problems have been reported, with 2 senior expats of 40 years reported being given an appointment for their vaccines on January 1, 1970. Others have reported additional problems in registering to get a vaccine and suspect the system is overwhelmed.

Vaccination for foreigners is still confusing and widely varied in different provinces, but nationwide, vaccination centres are administering Sinovac and AstraZeneca jabs, with most centres offering one of the other, not a choice.

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/so-expats-can-get-vaccines-in-the-rollout-but-how

======================================

From Thai Enquirer

Bangkok surges to new high of 70 Covid clusters

There are now 70 active clusters in Bangkok, the Centre for Covid-19 Situation Administration (CCSA) said on Wednesday.

It is the highest number of active clusters that has been reported in the third wave, which started at entertainment venues in the capital and surrounding provinces since April 1.

The previous figure given for Bangkok by the CCSA was 53 clusters on Monday.

“There are now 70 active clusters in 35 districts,” said Dr Apisamai Srirangsan, the CCSA’s deputy spokeswoman.

The official update only listed one cluster as new, at Prayook Sports Supply company in Din Daeng where 54 out of 120 employees were found to be infected with the virus. The company closed on June 4 until June 18.

It was not clear which others of the 70 listed clusters were new since the 53 reported on Monday. The CCSA did not release an update on Tuesday.

Of the 70 active clusters in Bangkok, 22 were found in worker camps, 16 around markets and shopping centres, 15 at businesses and factories, 14 in crowded communities and residential areas, two at care homes and one at an embassy.

Of the 22 worker camps, 12 belongs to three companies, namely Italian-Thai Development (5), Sino-Thai Engineering & Construction (4) and Pornpranakorn (3). The remaining belong to 10 other companies with one cluster each.

Apisamai said there are currently 409 registered camps in Bangkok housing around 62,000 workers.

Authorities will begin to inspect all worker camps in the capital tomorrow, starting with large sites with more than 100 workers.

https://www.thaienquirer.com/28380/bangkok-surges-to-new-high-of-70-covid-clusters/

 

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, z909 said:

Well done PeterRS.   Do you know which vaccine you will get ?

I asked but was told they do not yet know. My taxi driver had been given Sinovac - that's all I know.

[anddy]

A (farang) friend of mine got an appointment some weeks ago through the Thai registration app, because a Thai person (forgot how they relate) put him in as "family". First it was supposed to be at the Siam Paragon vax center, but later he could move it (within the app) to BNH Hospital, where the farang friend is regular patient anyway, so very convenient. Friend went to BNH about a week ago to inquire about the appointment, and yes indeed it was in the system and the lady confirmed it. Will wait and see what happens when the day comes....

I'm not eligible under the foreigner application website yet. So being able to register will take some more time, and the actual appointment will presumably not be before late July, or even August. In which case I'm thinking I'm better off waiting for October and get the Moderna shot then, because for AZ they do a 16 weeks (!!) gap here, so a July/August 1st shot will have the second in November/December! Would be the same with a 1st Moderna shot in October. And of course even better with J&J.

And while I wait for October, an opportunity may arise to go to Germany and come back fully vaxxed with more reasonable hassle than under the stupid Phuket Sandbox model. 

[spoon]

34 minutes ago, anddy said:

A (farang) friend of mine got an appointment some weeks ago through the Thai registration app, because a Thai person (forgot how they relate) put him in as "family".  

because for AZ they do a 16 weeks (!!) gap here, 

And while I wait for October, an opportunity may arise to go to Germany and come back fully vaxxed with more reasonable hassle than under the stupid Phuket Sandbox model. 

Thats one way to get ahead, marry a thai! Lol.

AZ gap is 12 weeks here in malaysia, but i just learned from the news that it is possible to request for shorter interval through email. Sent my request and hope theyll read the email lol. Although, AZ first dose gave a really good protection for those already at 76% efficacy, justifying the second dose to be delayed for potentially longer protection. So personally, if given the choice of a firm date AZ earlier, id choose this compared to a unconfirm date of other vaccine in the future. I actually did choose AZ here, but it was a simple choice as otherwise my queue is practically much later, and might get either pfizer (which i prefer) or sinovac (which i rather not, mainly due to current restriction on travel bases on vaccine type rather than the vaccine itself, as i dont mind sinovac if i can go travel to places i want).

Your last point is valid too, waiting means u can also take the vaccine in germany, and once phuket sandbox expand to bangkok, its a no hassle for u too as its pretty much staying in bangkok for u. Although, would taking your second dose of AZ in germany a possibility too? 

[Guest]

When you do get the first dose of a vaccine, there's already a significant benefit, although it does seem to depend on the covid variant present.  I got my second dose 11 weeks after the first & was perfectly happy with that interval. 

Hypothetically, the only way I would have waited an extra 2 months for a "preferred" vaccine was if my country had a very low infection rate during those 2 months.    That was not the case.

 

 

[anddy]

12 minutes ago, spoon said:

Although, would taking your second dose of AZ in germany a possibolity too? 

yes it would, though I hadn't really considered that (yet).

Plus i wonder how the bureaucratic part about vaccination would work out in that case, i.e. get an "official" vaccination certification. Neither place can really issue that, not having administered both shots themselves. Could lead to headaches when traveling maybe? I would and will make sure my vaccination will be entered properly in my yellow vaccination book, but will that be sufficient? If an electronic one becomes the norm, could I get that and how?

Besides, in Germany I could easily get Pfizer or Moderna, which would be quicker than AZ, so no need to try the two-country strategy.

The 16 week gap in Thailand was done to stretch supplies to allow more first shots to be given faster, same rationale as the UK did a while ago. It may actually be a good thing from a virological/immunological point of view, as a longer gap leads to better protection. So shortening it, as you are looking to do @spoon, may not be such a good idea...

[anddy]

4 minutes ago, z909 said:

Hypothetically, the only way I would have waited an extra 2 months for a "preferred" vaccine was if my country had a very low infection rate during those 2 months.    That was not the case.

That's true too, and it is the case in Thailand, the numbers are not really high, even if multiplied by a TiT-uncertainty factor of, say, 5. Though in reality the virus seems to be everywhere here.... 

What I'll probably do is register when it becomes possible for me and then wait and see. If the Germany window opens up I can cancel the appointment, if it doesn't I go get it here.

[spoon]

2 minutes ago, anddy said:

The 16 week gap in Thailand was done to stretch supplies to allow more first shots to be given faster, same rationale as the UK did a while ago. It may actually be a good thing from a virological/immunological point of view, as a longer gap leads to better protection. So shortening it, as you are looking to do @spoon, may not be such a good idea... 

Shortening here doesnt mean to 3 weeks like pfizer or moderna, but more like below 12 weeks, as compared to the fixed 12 weeks as default. Plus it is merely a request and not a commitment, as the process of vaccine here are all automated in the apps, and we need to confirmed our availability once we received the appointment. So moreso this request is for priority access to the vaccine when it is available. Given the delay delivery news we just recieved today, as our next batch of vaccine shouldve come from thailand factory, i figured ill just submit a request and decide later when i do get my second dose date. 

[reader]

From Thaiger / Bangkok Post

Government signs contract for 20 million Pfizer doses

The government has approved the order of 20 million doses of the Covid-19 vaccine from US manufacturer, Pfizer. The Bangkok Post reports that the head of the Department of Disease Control signed the contract yesterday. Delivery will be some time this year, but when exactly is unclear, as the vaccine has yet to be approved by Thailand’s Food and Drug Administration.

Pfizer must now submit registration documents to the FDA, while Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul says the DDC has a month to negotiate pricing and other conditions with the manufacturer. Speaking at a media briefing yesterday, Anutin said the government has also received approval from the Office of the Attorney-General to purchase supplies of the Johnson & Johnson single-dose vaccine. However, that contract is yet to be signed as the manufacturer, Janssen Pharmaceuticals, needs to accept the deal.

“The government has contacted all vaccine makers to seek more vaccine doses as the pandemic does not seem to have stopped spreading. Plus, no research is certain about the efficacy period so people who were vaccinated in February are advised to get more doses to stimulate immunity.”

A deal is also in place with AstraZeneca whereby new batches will be delivered every week. In addition, Kiattiphum Wongrajit from the Health Ministry says a total of 7.5 million Sinovac doses have now been delivered, after another 1 million arrived in the Kingdom yesterday.

“As at the current rate, we can vaccinate at a rate of 400,000 doses per day, so all 1 million doses will be used up in 3 days. So, the government needs to seek 3 million more doses of Sinovac and sign other contracts for more doses.”

====================================

From The Thai Tourism Ministry

 

[macaroni21]

Let me see if I understand this.

1.  "the head of the Department of Disease Control signed the contract yesterday", even though

2. "the vaccine has yet to be approved by Thailand’s Food and Drug Administration", and

3. "the price is not yet agreed and the DDC has a month to negotiate pricing and other conditions with the manufacturer," and

4. "delivery will be some time this year, but when exactly is unclear"

What sort of contract might that be?

As for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine,

5. "Anutin said the government has also received approval from the Office of the Attorney-General to purchase supplies of the Johnson & Johnson single-dose vaccine." Why is the AG involved?

[Guest]

 I've not seen many governments publishing their vaccine contracts and the delivery schedules for those contracts.  

 

[anddy]

1 hour ago, z909 said:

 I've not seen many governments publishing their vaccine contracts and the delivery schedules for those contracts.  

 

that may well be, but @macaroni21's point was, that a "contract" that doesn't even specify the price is, in fact, not a legally binding contract, meaning the whole "purchase" may still fall through. I was going to post the same observation, but Mac beat me to it  

[Guest]

3 hours ago, anddy said:

that may well be, but @macaroni21's point was, that a "contract" that doesn't even specify the price is, in fact, not a legally binding contract, meaning the whole "purchase" may still fall through. I was going to post the same observation, but Mac beat me to it  

I agree completely with both of you regarding the pricing issue.   The idea of signing a contract with no pricing seems extremely odd and highly risky.  Unless they have already agreed some kind of framework or basic vaccine price, with further detail regarding delivery, packaging and so on to be fixed.      Or perhaps Anutin or the journalists got this wrong ?

However, regarding the rest of it, don't expect the contract & delivery schedules etc to be published when it is signed.    Countries are usually not doing that. 

As for Thailand approving the vaccine, when at least 35 other countries have already approved it and are using it, approval by the Thai regulator ought to be a formality.   Submit documents, answer a few token questions, then wait for the approval, no doubt covered in stamps and signatures in various places.     

If it's still not approved by the time the vaccines are delivered, Gen Prayut might have words with the regulator.     Since TIT, feel free to remind me when that doesn't happen.

I guess all of this diverts media attention away from the locally made vaccines, which have still not appeared in volume, despite agreement last year, if I remember correctly.   Plants in various other countries have been producing for months, including India.   So if the local plant is not delivering, create some diversionary news flow.

[reader]

I believe that the US (and other governments) used similar language during the acquisition process of the Pfizer, Moderna and other vaccines. The objective was to get the process underway ASAP and to assure its position in the sequence of delivery.  At the time, precise manufacturing costs could not be determined.

It is not an uncommon practice in these circumstances when results are deemed by the buyer to be more important than best price.  The need for speed in this case is the over riding issue.

There's no denying the Thailand has been slow in getting its program moving but I see nothing to suggest (from the article) that it's unable to negotiate a contract consistent with the situation at hand.

[macaroni21]

Then again, let's not even assume that the signed "contract" was between Thailand and the vaccine manufacturer. I shall entertain the possibility that it could have been between the ministry and some local representative of the vaccine manufacturer specifying no details of price or delivery date (mere minor details, you understand), but setting down the most important aspect of any purchase: the percentage commission to be diverted to certain bigwigs. 

[spoon]

17 hours ago, macaroni21 said:

As for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine,

5. "Anutin said the government has also received approval from the Office of the Attorney-General to purchase supplies of the Johnson & Johnson single-dose vaccine." Why is the AG involved?

I believed AG is needed to check the legality of appropriating the fund for the vaccine purchases as obviously they didnt budget it for this vaccine, thus the fund need to be from somewhere else. Just my guess as i also read about similar AG involvement when the provincial gov want to buy their own vaccine using their own state fund.