'Worth it': American expat in Thailand travels to Guam for vaccine, vacation

[TotallyOz]

I have seriously been considering going to the USA to get the vaccine next month.  But, this article is giving me something to really think about.

https://www.postguam.com/news/local/worth-it-american-expat-in-thailand-travels-to-guam-for-vaccine-vacation/article_ac7f7318-abd2-11eb-937e-5fd49dc227e8.html

[reader]

Narita appears to have daily fights to Guam. The RT fares (BKK-NRT-GUM) are about $1100 on flights operated by Al Nippon. Total flight time 11:45.

Sounds like a good alternative.

Good luck!

[Riobard]

Seems like, outside of quarantine requirements I have not investigated, it’s either a 2-dose regimen necessitating a longer stay or two separate visits, or J&J single dose. 

[TotallyOz]

The minister announced yesterday that there are no plans for expats to get jabs. Interesting that the day before this, I got a message from a friend who works at Parliament who said private hospitals could jab anything they want every soon. But, is this article a contradiction?

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2110211/thais-not-expats-get-jab-priority?

 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

I have seriously been considering going to the USA to get the vaccine next month. 

That's a lot of hassle, particularly if you have to wait at least a month for the second dose, then quarantine when flying back to Thailand. 

[spoon]

Only worth the effort if you can get the one dose j&j vaccine, or if u really like staying in guam for a longer term.

[anddy]

10 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

a contradiction?

isn't that par for the course in Thailand? One day they said all foreigners (both so-called "expats" and so-called "migrant workers") can get it. The next they say, yes but they are last in line after Thais. Surprise surprise.

Apart from being yet another in the endless series of annoying flip flops, it also makes (as usual) zero sense, because the virus spreads from humans to humans, not from nationality to nationality. Stupidity, ignorance, arrogance and whatever else mixed together (as usual).

[Guest]

Lets do some calcs, based on assumptions, which may or may not be accurate:

Thai population = Approx 70 million

Daily infection rate = 2000

Probability of infection per day = 1 in 35000

Probability of death per infection = 1%  (Value ought to be adjusted according to age and health condition of the individual)

Estimated time to vaccination: 60 days (A guess, also I am assuming board members resident in Bangkok might pay up as soon as a private hospital offers a non-Chinese vaccine).   Add 10 days for the vaccine to start to work.

Probability of death from covid = (1/35000) x 0.01 x 70 = 1 in 50,000

 

Now we could question every single assumption in the above calculation.  Feel free to put in alternative values, but whatever you choose, we have to change it by orders of magnitude in order to meaningfully change your annual probability of death (table below).  

 

Of course we could question every single figure:

How accurate is the daily infection rate ?   Should we adjust upwards for residency in Bangkok ?

Has it peaked ?   (Exponential growth seems to have stopped)

However, Michael also has the opportunity to adjust his personal probability of infection by simple measures like not going anywhere crowded, wearing a FFP3/N99 mask and being strict with use of hand gel etc.  

I see no reason to fly overseas for a vaccine, unless of course Michael also wants to travel for other reasons.

 

[anddy]

I have tentatively considered going back to Germany to get the vaccine there and then come back. But the motivation is not fear of dying from the virus, but getting my "vaccine passport". Also, it would suit my regular annual travel habits (until and including 2019, that is) of going there over the summer for 3+ months. The big unknown is the utterly unplannable return trip. Will it be possible? Under what conditions? Quarantine? Bureaucracy overkill (including the useless covid insurance)? Worst of the worst cases would be getting stuck there into the fall and winter. So I'm not really planning anything at all at the moment, just continue my wait-and-see stance. 

For others the virus may really represent a bigger threat, depending on age and health condition. So speeding up the vaccination might be a good idea. But then there might be more risk of catching it on a trip involving sitting in the confines of an airplane than from staying at home and treading carefully.

[spoon]

I care to make the assumption that most of us here carry a higher risk of infection as long as we continue to seek random hot boys for sex. Getting vaccinated makes sense to me if it helps ensure our peace of mind, so i can focus my mind on the boy of the day lol. Of course if you no longer trying to find boys when u are in thailand, and stay at home, your risk is definitely lower than most.

[reader]

12 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

I got a message from a friend who works at Parliament who said private hospitals could jab anything they want every soon. But, is this article a contradiction?

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2110211/thais-not-expats-get-jab-priority?

Don't think there's any other way to see it. But as Anddy points out, this comes as no surprise.

What puzzles me is that the embassies that represent expats in large numbers residing in Thailand aren't stepping up to the plate to inoculate their own citizens. Countries like the UK, US, Australia and Japan (and others) have access to vaccines and the ability to import them. Although I'm no expert on expert on diplomatic immunity, it would appear that embassies would be in a perfect position to offer vaccinations to their own citizens abroad, particularly if they were done on embassy grounds. They have most likely inoculated their own staffs by now.

I believe that all of the governments mentioned above are already sending COVID aid to distressed nations in one form or another. It seems unreasonable to expect expats to have to travel outside Thailand to obtain something that their government is in a position to provide.

[anddy]

3 hours ago, reader said:

What puzzles me is that the embassies that represent expats in large numbers residing in Thailand aren't stepping up to the plate to inoculate their own citizens.

I don't find that puzzling. Embassies and their diplomatic mail transport channels are simply not equipped to handle special medical transports like this, particularly if it's the super deep freeze Pfizer or Moderna jabs. Plus zero staff and infrastructure on the embassy grounds. So logistically it's an impossibility. What they SHOULD do though, kick the Thai governments ass about this! That's the least they can do, and they are perfectly able to.

[reader]

You're absolutely right, Anddy, about the Pfizer and Moderna jabs. They could get the J&J with normal refrigerated shipping (it's good for at least three months if kept between 35-46F).

But I agree that the the easiest solution would be to allow select hospitals to receive it on the behalf of foreign embassies and their citizens pay for the cost of injection. It may not fall under normal consular services, but these aren't normal times.

Given the exports that Thailand sends to the US, EU and UK, it shouldn't take a lot of persuasion to get it done.

[Guest]

Also, western nations are currently prioritizing their domestic population, as deaths at home look bad for politicians.  So sending vaccines to expats abroad is a long way down the priority list.

It must be said, any foreigner resident in the UK, permanently or as a student is entitled to register with the NHS and is then eligible for vaccination a the same time as British citizens.   I'd expect other civilized nations to apply similar rules, as anything else amounts to racial discrimination.

[reader]

1 hour ago, z909 said:

It must be said, any foreigner resident in the UK, permanently or as a student is entitled to register with the NHS and is then eligible for vaccination a the same time as British citizens.   I'd expect other civilized nations to apply similar rules, as anything else amounts to racial discrimination.

How exactly does not providing inoculations to foreign nationals automatically amount to racial discrimination?

If you accept that premise, you're claiming that Thailand is racially discriminating against expats because they won't allow them to be inoculated before its own citizens.

[spoon]

Malaysia is giving free vaccination to all foreign resident as well, and priority is bases on risk factor only. Recently, the gov decided to allow volunteers to register for astrazeneca vaccine due to the blood clot reason, and slots were gone within 3 hours. I and several of my families managed to register, as well as several of my expat colleagues. The gov decided to continue to do this for the upcoming astrazeneca vaccines. 

Like everyone mentioned already, the virus doesnt care what status u are, what race you are, what nationality you are, so it makes sense to vaccinate the population, including permenant resident and long term foreign workers/expat. However, when the vaccine supply is limited, priority should be given to those who are of high risk of exposure (health care, essential factories workers etc) and high risk of fatality (older population with comorbidities). Another risky groups are those who cant isolate in their home due to living in a cramp houses or hostels (khlong toey slum or factory workers hostels etc).

Back to the topic above, expat residing in a country can be in any of the category in the priority lists. Putting the whole expat community at the back of the line does sounds to me a discrimination. 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, reader said:

How exactly does not providing inoculations to RESIDENT foreign nationals automatically amount to racial discrimination?

Think about it.    Everyone else will get it.

Note: I was referring to RESIDENT foreign nationals, so have added the word back in for accuracy.

[reader]

It's clear from Oz's post today that Thailand will--at some yet undetermined time--allow expats to be administered vaccine. The government is still working on a policy, according to press reports. That is discrimination based on national origin and limited vaccine supply. Since the expats (resident foreign nationals) represent many different races, as does the citizenry of Thailand itself, it's not "racially" based discrimination.

Malaysia is to be lauded for it's policy of inclusion.

Lets hope that pressure continue to build toward the waiver of intellectual property protection for COVID vaccines. The Biden administration Wednesday got on board that proposal, drafted by India and South Africa, but many holdouts remain. Nevertheless, it's an encouraging step that could allow developing nations to  produce their own supplies of the most successful vaccines.

[bucky13]

Isn't there not some type of underground market for the vaccine within the Bangkok medical community?  Rather than spend thousands on travel, spend it on a "gift" to a Doctor?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, bucky13 said:

Isn't there not some type of underground market for the vaccine within the Bangkok medical community?  Rather than spend thousands on travel, spend it on a "gift" to a Doctor?

There is also a large market in fake drugs in Thailand & elsewhere.    

How would  you guarantee a doctor who takes a bribe is not going to give you saline solution ?

I'd imagine it will not be long before certain hospitals in Bangkok offer an "over the table" vaccine in return for a fee that is well below air fares.

[reader]

1 hour ago, bucky13 said:

Isn't there not some type of underground market for the vaccine within the Bangkok medical community?  Rather than spend thousands on travel, spend it on a "gift" to a Doctor?

Thaksin Shinawatta agrees:

From Chaing Rai Times

Thailand’s Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has dismissed claims that a small supply of Pfizer vaccine was already in Thailand. The denial comes after former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra made the claim online.

Thaksin claimed the Pfizer vaccine was already in Thailand for emergency and exclusive use among an elite group of people. Thaksin also said the wealthy elite in Thailand have extreme power over the present administration.

On Wednesday Food and Drug Administration (FDA) secretary-general Paisarn Dankum, said via a Facebook Live press briefing that “the Pfizer vaccine is not yet in this country because Pfizer has yet to register its Covid-19 vaccine.