Vaxed 4 Vaxed

[fairview]

2 hours ago, fairview said:

I like the term "Pfully Pfizered" if you've gotten both shoes. 

*shots 

[unicorn]

On 3/30/2021 at 9:11 AM, spoon said:

Doesnt matter if vaccinated or not, u can still spread the virus. Vaccine protect yourself but will not protect those unvaccinated, so unless most or all the people i care and around me are vaccinated, better still observe social distancing. 

Although perhaps counter-intuitive to those not in the medical field, as it turns out people who are vaccinated can get ill, but don't pass it on even if they do get ill. Although people often associate "testing positive" with "being contagious," that's actually not the case. Although protecting the vaccinee from getting sick is obviously one of the great benefits of a vaccine, the biggest benefit may be preventing further spread. That's also the case with almost every vaccine developed to date: may not provide complete protection against illness, but does make the vaccinee non-contagious. Also, people who get ill a 2nd time don't seem to be contagious the 2nd time around. We know this both from public health data and also from studies which have tried to grow out virus from people who've tested positive but been vaccinated or previously infected. Unless a person is taking medications which seriously wipe out the immune system, contagiousness stops 9 days after first testing positive (hence the current guidelines for stopping quarantine after 10 days of a negative test). 

[spoon]

3 hours ago, unicorn said:

Although perhaps counter-intuitive to those not in the medical field, as it turns out people who are vaccinated can get ill, but don't pass it on even if they do get ill. Although people often associate "testing positive" with "being contagious," that's actually not the case. Although protecting the vaccinee from getting sick is obviously one of the great benefits of a vaccine, the biggest benefit may be preventing further spread. That's also the case with almost every vaccine developed to date: may not provide complete protection against illness, but does make the vaccinee non-contagious. Also, people who get ill a 2nd time don't seem to be contagious the 2nd time around. We know this both from public health data and also from studies which have tried to grow out virus from people who've tested positive but been vaccinated or previously infected. Unless a person is taking medications which seriously wipe out the immune system, contagiousness stops 9 days after first testing positive (hence the current guidelines for stopping quarantine after 10 days of a negative test). 

Can you share the link to the studies or public health data that confirmed vaccinated person wont infect others? If so, it is a great news indeed.

My poor men googling effort only find this article that says it reduces the chance of transmission but still says infected vaccinated person can still spread the virus. The rest of the articles says they didnt know yet how effective covid vaccines in preventing transmission from infected vaccinated person, thus still recommending vaccinated person to observe SOP. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/yes-vaccines-block-most-transmission-of-covid-19

[unicorn]

1 hour ago, spoon said:

Can you share the link to the studies or public health data that confirmed vaccinated person wont infect others? If so, it is a great news indeed

Well, I had some when I was posting on this on the now-defunct website, but there have been no reports of transmission from a vaccinated individual, and that has been looked at. There have also been some studies that looked at transmissibility after the development of antibodies, starting with the South Korean CDC study almost a year ago, and it appears that except in highly unusual circumstances, once a person develops IgG antibodies, any viral particles, even if recovered by PCR, are not infectious:

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/05/22/861061727/south-korean-study-shows-no-evidence-recovered-covid-patients-can-infect-others

So it does not appear that vaccinated people transmit the virus even if they get sick, though it's still important to wear masks, because there's no way to visually identify the vaccinated from unvaccinated when they're out and about. Unfortunately, a lof of the links I provided in the prior website may be lost for good.

 

https://www.krqe.com/health/cdc-evidence-suggests-fully-vaccinated-people-do-not-transmit-covid-19/

[Riobard]

Is it just me, or do some of these media articles not seem to go in convoluted circles?

If caution is to legitimately be exercised, pending the progressive emergence of reasonably incontrovertible science-driven guidelines, the suggestion is that both viral burden and replication potential for those vaccinated that nevertheless acquire breakthrough infection is on a gradient based on degree of symptoms. (Not to be dismissive of its confounding transmission considerations, but let’s leave the variant aspect out of it for now, as well as the sound notion that widespread population immunity will take care of a lot of this.)

The concern is that asymptomatic infection would be the most problematic because it would be supposedly under the radar, albeit less transmissible, according to its lacking symptom profile correlated with fairly insignificant levels of virus that spew forth from one’s orifices. One might think that it would also possibly represent the lion’s share of breakthrough cases due to the salutary aspects of vaccination itself. Yet a recent study testing testing testing a cohort of mRNA vaxx recipients to flag any CoV infection revealed that the majority of breakthrough cases were accompanied by discernible symptoms.  Again, testing as per protocol, not based on symptom triggers. 

Of apparent lesser concern would be somewhat symptomatic infection following vaccination, though viral burden and contagion, if at all in fact genuine, are presumably greater than among the vaccinated that acquire symptomless infection, because ... in real life as we know it everyone that has been vaccinated and feels somewhat unwell is going to confirm their status with repeated testing (that lower viral levels may elude), dig in, and quarantine themselves off from everybody else?! And to repeat, these folks represent the lion’s share of breakthrough infections that evaded the 90% reduction metric. 

There seems to be this naïve middle ground clinically that would lead some people to assume that in between the polarized domains of non-symptom and obvious ‘run-for-the-hills’-grade manifestations of classic symptom severity (though rare among those with immunity) lies a category of extremely conscientious folks able to function OK in spite of breakthrough post-vaxx infection but that would be completely transparent about being moderately ill and would be diligently 100% protective of all categories of people with whom contact occurs.

Like that has been the trend since the pandemic commenced. 

[unicorn]

There has been tons of research on this subject of contagion.People seem to have a high viral load and are most contagious from just prior to getting symptoms, to about a week after getting symptoms. Once IgG antibodies (the long-term antibodies) develop, generally 2 weeks after infection or immunization, contagiousness really becomes negligible, as there is no more live virus:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41415-020-2228-9

"To what extent can simple antibody testing assist in addressing the first and second points above? Given that there is no overlap in time between the end of viral infectiousness and the earliest formation of IgG antibody, if specific antiviral IgG is detectable, that person is extremely unlikely to be infectious. As IgG antibodies are then detectable for weeks or months, non-infectiousness can be assured for at least as long as these antibodies are detectable, and probably a lot longer because of residual T cell memory."

[spoon]

Another reason to still wear mask and social distance is the multiple new variants that seems to be more potent and dangerous, and effectiveness of current vaccines might be less. Basically until majority of population in an area has been vaccinated, itll be wise to maintain the new norm. I was hoping to see some light when phuket model announced but now im not sure if this will still continue. If it did, with phuket fully vaccinated their population, and only vaccinated tourist allowed in, we finally might see if vaccinated person can actually infect others in a somewhat controlled environment.

[unicorn]

4 minutes ago, spoon said:

Another reason to still wear mask and social distance is the multiple new variants that seems to be more potent and dangerous, and effectiveness of current vaccines might be less. Basically until majority of population in an area has been vaccinated, itll be wise to maintain the new norm. I was hoping to see some light when phuket model announced but now im not sure if this will still continue. If it did, with phuket fully vaccinated their population, and only vaccinated tourist allowed in, we finally might see if vaccinated person can actually infect others in a somewhat controlled environment.

The reason we have to still wear a mask even after vaccination is that there's no way to identify the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. So far, the vaccines, which are against the spike protein, have shown to be effective against all variants studied: UK, South Africa, California, etc. Obviously, if there is a new Indian variant in the US, that hasn't been tested yet, but no reason to think it will prove any different from all of the other variants. 

[reader]

From Thai Enquirer

Government inaction blocking private hospital vaccine purchase

Despite promises made by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha, government hurdles and red-tape have made it impossible for private hospitals to acquire vaccines on their own despite having the agency and connections to make it happen.

Thailand is currently fighting its most severe wave of the Covid-19 pandemic with infection rates climbing into the quadruple digits and the death toll mounting.

Among the major criticisms aimed at the government from political opponents and erstwhile allies is the current national vaccination plan which has lagged behind other countries.

Local media have been reporting since last year that private hospitals seeking to independently acquire vaccines were being rejected by the public health ministry on the grounds that the government would be able to source enough vaccines for the country.

But with the rise of the third wave, that vaccination plan seems to have failed in its entirety with the population not inoculated in any substantial way.

As a result, Prayut promised in a nationally-televised address to set up a committee to help the private sector bring in vaccines to supplement the government’s effort.

Thai Enquirer has learned, however, that in the two-weeks since Prime Minister Prayut made the statement there has been no change on the ground and private hospitals are still frustrated by the lack of government communication and agency on the matter.

“At the moment, it is impossible for the private sector to bring in vaccines due to the government’s inaction,” said Dr Suwadee Puntpanich, a director at Thonburi Bamrungmuang Hospital which is part of the Thonburi Healthcare Group.

Coninues at

https://www.thaienquirer.com/26891/exclusive-government-inaction-blocking-private-hospital-vaccine-purchase-despite-prayut-promise/

=======================================

From Channel News Asia

China's Sinovac and Sinopharm consider mixing COVID-19 vaccines, adding booster shots

TAIPEI: Chinese vaccine makers are looking at mixing their jabs and whether a booster shot could help better protect against COVID-19.

Sinovac and Sinopharm, the two Chinese manufacturers that combined have exported hundreds of millions of doses all over the world, say they are are considering combining their vaccines with those from other companies.

Earlier this month, the head of China's Center for Disease Control, Gao Fu, said that current vaccines offer low protection against the coronavirus and mixing them is among strategies being considered to boost their effectiveness.

Gao later tried to walk back his comments, saying he was talking in general about improving vaccine efficacy.

China National Biotech Group has a plan for future “sequential use” of their vaccines, Li Meng, the head of international cooperation for the company, said Wednesday at an international conference.

The company, a subsidiary of state-owned Sinopharm, made two inactivated COVID-19 vaccines and a third in clinical trials.

Continues at

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-sinovac-sinopharm-mixing-covid-19-vaccines-booster-14710138

====================================

From South China Morning Post

Prayuth faces crisis of confidence stoked by Thaksin, Clubhouse and ‘fed-up doctors’

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha is to meet industry and tourism leaders on Wednesday to discuss how the country, in the thick of a coronavirus flare-up and a month-long lockdown of Bangkok, can ramp up its vaccination drive as it seeks to welcome foreign travellers to Phuket by July 1.

Thailand has received 2.5 million Sinovac doses and expects a further one million in May. Sixty-one million locally produced AstraZeneca doses are set to be delivered between June and December.  Prayuth said last week that Russia and Pfizer had each promised between five and 10 million doses but offered no delivery timeline.

With only about one per cent of the 66 million population – mostly health workers and those at higher risk of infection – inoculated so far, the private sector has ramped up pressure on the government to procure more vaccines. The Thai Chamber of Commerce on Monday began taking vaccine orders from members, at their own expense, as a step toward speeding the recovery, Bloomberg reported.

On social media, people have documented the difficulties in finding hospital beds for Covid-19 patients while over the weekend a group called Mor Mai Ton (“fed-up doctors”) called on Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul to step down. More than 100,000 people signed the petition on Change.org in a matter of hours on Sunday.

In the first 25 days of April Thailand reported more than 26,000 Covid-19 infections – compared to less than 7,000 cases detected throughout all of 2020.

The emergence of the doctors group follows that of a movement known as Thai Mai Ton (“fed-up Thais”), which was recently formed by supporters of the former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who was deposed in a military coup in 2006 and has been in self-exile since 2008.

A police officer turned telecoms billionaire before he became prime minister, Thaksin himself has been active on the social media platform Clubhouse using the nickname Tony Woodsome, with some 200,000 people following him and being alerted to discussions involving him. In a session on April 20, thousands of Clubhouse users tuned in as he suggested he could bank on his ties with Russian leader Vladimir Putin to help Thailand procure its Sputnik V vaccine.

Included in the proposal, apart from holding a private talk with Putin, was that Thai billionaires like Dhanin Chearavanont, of Charoen Pokphand Group, and Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi, the founder of Singapore Exchange-listed company ThaiBev, could use their connections in China and Singapore respectively to source vaccines for Thailand.

Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a self-exiled academic and prominent long-time critic of the Thai monarchy now based at Kyoto University and active on Clubhouse, said Thaksin’s “outward-looking focus and confidence in business” was in stark contrast to Prayuth’s military background.

Continues at

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3131330/covid-19-surges-thailand-prayuth-faces-crisis

[KeepItReal]

1 hour ago, reader said:

From Thai Enquirer

Government inaction blocking private hospital vaccine purchase

Despite promises made by Prime Minister Prayut Chan-ocha, government hurdles and red-tape have made it impossible for private hospitals to acquire vaccines on their own despite having the agency and connections to make it happen.

Thailand is currently fighting its most severe wave of the Covid-19 pandemic with infection rates climbing into the quadruple digits and the death toll mounting.

Among the major criticisms aimed at the government from political opponents and erstwhile allies is the current national vaccination plan which has lagged behind other countries.

Local media have been reporting since last year that private hospitals seeking to independently acquire vaccines were being rejected by the public health ministry on the grounds that the government would be able to source enough vaccines for the country.

But with the rise of the third wave, that vaccination plan seems to have failed in its entirety with the population not inoculated in any substantial way.

As a result, Prayut promised in a nationally-televised address to set up a committee to help the private sector bring in vaccines to supplement the government’s effort.

Thai Enquirer has learned, however, that in the two-weeks since Prime Minister Prayut made the statement there has been no change on the ground and private hospitals are still frustrated by the lack of government communication and agency on the matter.

“At the moment, it is impossible for the private sector to bring in vaccines due to the government’s inaction,” said Dr Suwadee Puntpanich, a director at Thonburi Bamrungmuang Hospital which is part of the Thonburi Healthcare Group.

Coninues at

https://www.thaienquirer.com/26891/exclusive-government-inaction-blocking-private-hospital-vaccine-purchase-despite-prayut-promise/

=======================================

From Channel News Asia

China's Sinovac and Sinopharm consider mixing COVID-19 vaccines, adding booster shots

TAIPEI: Chinese vaccine makers are looking at mixing their jabs and whether a booster shot could help better protect against COVID-19.

Sinovac and Sinopharm, the two Chinese manufacturers that combined have exported hundreds of millions of doses all over the world, say they are are considering combining their vaccines with those from other companies.

Earlier this month, the head of China's Center for Disease Control, Gao Fu, said that current vaccines offer low protection against the coronavirus and mixing them is among strategies being considered to boost their effectiveness.

Gao later tried to walk back his comments, saying he was talking in general about improving vaccine efficacy.

China National Biotech Group has a plan for future “sequential use” of their vaccines, Li Meng, the head of international cooperation for the company, said Wednesday at an international conference.

The company, a subsidiary of state-owned Sinopharm, made two inactivated COVID-19 vaccines and a third in clinical trials.

Continues at

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/china-sinovac-sinopharm-mixing-covid-19-vaccines-booster-14710138

====================================

From South China Morning Post

Prayuth faces crisis of confidence stoked by Thaksin, Clubhouse and ‘fed-up doctors’

Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-ocha is to meet industry and tourism leaders on Wednesday to discuss how the country, in the thick of a coronavirus flare-up and a month-long lockdown of Bangkok, can ramp up its vaccination drive as it seeks to welcome foreign travellers to Phuket by July 1.

Thailand has received 2.5 million Sinovac doses and expects a further one million in May. Sixty-one million locally produced AstraZeneca doses are set to be delivered between June and December.  Prayuth said last week that Russia and Pfizer had each promised between five and 10 million doses but offered no delivery timeline.

With only about one per cent of the 66 million population – mostly health workers and those at higher risk of infection – inoculated so far, the private sector has ramped up pressure on the government to procure more vaccines. The Thai Chamber of Commerce on Monday began taking vaccine orders from members, at their own expense, as a step toward speeding the recovery, Bloomberg reported.

On social media, people have documented the difficulties in finding hospital beds for Covid-19 patients while over the weekend a group called Mor Mai Ton (“fed-up doctors”) called on Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul to step down. More than 100,000 people signed the petition on Change.org in a matter of hours on Sunday.

In the first 25 days of April Thailand reported more than 26,000 Covid-19 infections – compared to less than 7,000 cases detected throughout all of 2020.

The emergence of the doctors group follows that of a movement known as Thai Mai Ton (“fed-up Thais”), which was recently formed by supporters of the former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra who was deposed in a military coup in 2006 and has been in self-exile since 2008.

A police officer turned telecoms billionaire before he became prime minister, Thaksin himself has been active on the social media platform Clubhouse using the nickname Tony Woodsome, with some 200,000 people following him and being alerted to discussions involving him. In a session on April 20, thousands of Clubhouse users tuned in as he suggested he could bank on his ties with Russian leader Vladimir Putin to help Thailand procure its Sputnik V vaccine.

Included in the proposal, apart from holding a private talk with Putin, was that Thai billionaires like Dhanin Chearavanont, of Charoen Pokphand Group, and Charoen Sirivadhanabhakdi, the founder of Singapore Exchange-listed company ThaiBev, could use their connections in China and Singapore respectively to source vaccines for Thailand.

Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a self-exiled academic and prominent long-time critic of the Thai monarchy now based at Kyoto University and active on Clubhouse, said Thaksin’s “outward-looking focus and confidence in business” was in stark contrast to Prayuth’s military background.

Continues at

https://www.scmp.com/week-asia/health-environment/article/3131330/covid-19-surges-thailand-prayuth-faces-crisis

Something very similar is happening in other countries. For example I have friends in South Africa and they have an extensive private hospital, private doctor and private medical insurance network. They have not been able to secure the vaccine - the government has done everything in their power to make it impossible. It's very sad, really. 

[reader]

From The Thaiger

Bangkok sets goal to vaccinate 70% of population by the end of the year

With Bangkok as the epicentre of the recent Covid-19 outbreak, infecting over 10,000 people in the capital since April 1, the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration says they now aim to vaccinate 70% of Bangkok residents by the end of the year.

Since Thailand started its national Covid-19 vaccination plan in late-February, just 1.4 million doses have been inoculated. Priority was initially given to Phuket and Koh Samui, tourist destinations said to be of “economic significance” in an effort to reach herd immunity and reopen the islands to foreign tourists.

In Bangkok, health officials have focused on vaccinated frontline healthcare workers and other people at high risk rather than the general population like Phuket and Koh Samui.

Bangkok has a population of around 10 million people. The administration says those 18 and older will be included in the vaccination plan. Governor Aswin Kwanmuang says 10 million doses of the Covid-19 vaccine will be delivered between June and December. People need be injected with 2 doses for the vaccine to be effective. Aswin says that starting in June, they plan to administer 40,000 to 50,000 doses a day.

Those in Bangkok seeking a Covid-19 vaccine can register by messaging the @MorPhrom Line account. The vaccines will be administered at public hospitals in Bangkok as well as some department stores, according to Nation Thailand.

 

[reader]

From Bangkok Post

Vaccine tourism to US

Thais seeking to get free Covid-19 vaccines as part of tour packages to the United States should contact the Foreign Ministry first before paying since not all states offer the service, according to the Foreign Ministry.

Spokesman Tanee Sangrat said on Tuesday before making the decisions, buyers should check the regulations in the states they plan to to go since the situation is still fluid.

In general, people aged 16 and more who live in or have legally entered the US can seek Covid vaccination free of charge. However, the criteria and procedures differ in each state.

For example, he said, vaccine recipients are required to have permanent residences or jobs in some states. But in others, tourists may be able to get vaccinated by simply showing their passports.

Mr Tanee urged them to first check with the following Thai government agencies before paying for such a trip.

In Thailand, they can cantact the Consular Affairs Department, Foreign Ministry, by calling 02-572-8442 or through the Thai Consular mobile app.

In the US, they can contact:

- Thai Embassy in Washington DC, (+1 202-684-8493);
- Thai Consulate in Los Angeles (+1 323-962-9574);
- Thai Consulate in Chicago (+1 312-664-3129);
- Thai Consulate in New York (+1 212-754-1770, ext 304, 311 and 313)

According to ads seen by the Bangkok Post, a package to San Francisco, Monterey and Los Angeles of 10 days or seven nights including boarding and breakfast offers a vaccine made by Johnson & Johnson.

The prices range from 175,000 baht each for two persons to 76,000 baht each for a group of 8-10, excluding air fares.

The popularity of such packages is an indicator how desperate some Thais have been to get vaccinated in the wake of the third wave.

The government on Saturday kicked off vaccination registration for the first group who are not health workers — people aged 60 or more and those with seven existing conditions, but vaccination won't begin until June. Younger people can then register in July. 

Apart from the slow speed of vaccination, many are upset about the lack of vaccine choice.

Although the government aims to administer 100 million shots by the end of this year, more than half of them will be made by AstraZeneca and Sinovac, which are perceived to have lower efficacy rates than other brands widely used in the US.

While the government agreed to buy 35 million shots from US-based Pfizer and J&J and Russia-based Gamaleya, people are not allowed to choose the vaccine they will get.

People who can afford it therefore start looking to get immunised at private hospitals. However, it will take months for the alternative vaccines to be approved by Thailand's Food and Drug Administration and imported by the Government Pharmaceutical Organization for them.    

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/2110171/thai-warned-about-vaccine-tourism-to-us

[reader]

From Pattaya Mail

Buriram province in northeast Thailand requires everyone to get vaccinated

Buri Ram governor Thatchakorn Hatathathayakul has issued an order requiring everyone in the province to get vaccinated against COVID-19, or risk being fined or jailed for up to two years.

According to the order, people aged 18 and over, who live or work in the province, must assess their risk of COVID-19 infection, with the help of village health volunteers, via an online system or through a vaccination coordination center, before the end of this month.

Disease control and public health officials will have the authority to force people at high risk of infection to be vaccinated and provide dates and places for their inoculation.

Violations carry a maximum of one month in prison and/or fines that could be as high as 20,000 baht, under the 2015 Communicable Disease Act. Those who actively refuse to get vaccinated may also be liable to a maximum of two years in prison and/or a fine up to 40,000 baht for breaching the emergency decree. (NNT)
 

 

[JKane]