Thailand Elite Card for Retirement: Is It Worth It?

[PeterRS]

A couple of years ago a new Director of Immigration decided that those retired in Thailand would have to cough up more cash for renewal of their annual retirement visa. Retirement in this case means anyone 50 or over. Prior to the change, there were two cash requirements for renewal. The first was to have a pension of a minimum of 65,000 baht remitted monthly with some sort of proof from an Embassy that you had this level of income, or you parked 800,000 baht into a savings account for three months prior to the renewal date. Thereafter you spent it but had to top the account back up to 800,000 before the next renewal.

The main change affected the lump sum payment. The new arrangement was that you have to have 800.000 baht in the account for 2 months prior to renewal. This must then stay in the account unspent for a full 3 months after renewal. Thereafter the absolute minimum unspent balance had to be 400,000 baht for the next 7 months. The result of the new arrangement was that you had to keep those minima in the account or your visa would not be renewed. And I am not sure if you stood any chance of accessing those funds unless you left the country or died! If this has changed, I hope someone will correct me.

It was claimed that this new ridiculous lump sum arrangement was to get rid of those who scammed the system by using crook agents and crook Immigration officers. Another claim was that it was to force retirees to make use of the Thailand Elite card. Originally brought in about 20 years ago with the aim of making it easier for regular - and rich - visitors to come to Thailand, it has now been expanded and has become popular with quite a number of those wishing to retire here. I insert the website below.

There are various types of membership, but the ones that may be of most interest to potential retirees are likely to be the 5 year and 20 year visas. The cost of the 5 year one has recently gone up by 20% to 600,000 baht. But the 20 year one has been reduced to just 1 million baht. These are fees and so there is no money back. But for those fees you get a number of additional services like easy 90-day reporting and easy annual renewal (yes, that is still required of Elite holders). You also do not need to keep any minimum amount in bank accounts. I know a couple of people who recently upped their 5 year Elite visa to 20 years by paying the extra 500,000 baht (they had purchased their original cards a year ago when the price was 500,000 baht - the extension cost for more recent members is 400,000 baht). They find the service excellent.

If the 800,000/400,000 baht arrangement has not in fact changed, and I was thinking of retiring here, I would certainly look much more closely at the Elite Card.

https://www.thailandelite.com

[TMax]

If I could get the right lotto numbers I would be interested in a 20 year one. Seriously though, I had thought if I were to move to Thailand for an extended period the 5 year deal looked ok, if I have it right they also do the 90 day reports and extensions for you which would make things a little bit less of a hassle for some. I have seen some criticism of the Elite but for me it's just a personal choice.

[Guest]

Having to keep 800,000 baht in MY bank account is something I would normally consider superior to spending 600,000 baht & effectively putting it in the Thai government's bank account.     After all, if I decided to leave Thailand, I could take it with me.

So there would have to be other reasons to splash out 600,000, or 1,000,000.     I believe the convenience is valued ?

 

I also consider it reasonable for the Thai government to require people to keep a year's living expenses, if they can't prove a monthly income.   After all, they have no obligation to accept insolvent retirees from overseas and are entitled to demand proof of funds.

[Currently UK resident, thinking about living in Thailand]

 

[PeterRS]

28 minutes ago, z909 said:

Having to keep 800,000 baht in MY bank account is something I would normally consider superior to spending 600,000 baht & effectively putting it in the Thai government's bank account.     After all, if I decided to leave Thailand, I could take it with me.

So there would have to be other reasons to splash out 600,000, or 1,000,000.     I believe the convenience is valued ?

 

I also consider it reasonable for the Thai government to require people to keep a year's living expenses, if they can't prove a monthly income.   After all, they have no obligation to accept insolvent retirees from overseas and are entitled to demand proof of funds.

[Currently UK resident, thinking about living in Thailand]

 

I agree keeping a year's living expenses is not at all unreasonable. But keeping 800,000/400,000 in an account each year that you cannot touch for any reason and therefore seemingly until you die is surely a totally different matter. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I agree keeping a year's living expenses is not at all unreasonable. But keeping 800,000/400,000 in an account each year that you cannot touch for any reason and therefore seemingly until you die is surely a totally different matter. 

I presume this ensures there is at least something to cover expenses when one does die.     Of course, they ought to permit alternatives, such as average balance, or include other liquid assets, but this is probably too complicated.  

I'd have still thought there would be a ready market for the elite visa.   For example:

(i) People from countries where people don't trust the government and want a residency option somewhere else (e.g. China)

(ii) Solvent expats, who take the elite visa fee, subtract the costs for the alternative and conclude the difference is worth it, for convenience & other benefits.   Perhaps someone who has studied it can make the case FOR it ?

[anddy]

I just bought the Elite and got the visa sticker earlier this month. I opted for the 20 year/1mln Baht version, which is the best value for money, or rather the cheapest per annum cost at 50,000 Baht equivalent. This version does not come with all the extra Elite perks like free limo service to the airport18 or 24 times a year. That's completely useless to me as I travel often, but by FAR not that often. Plus a simple taxi does it for me. It's clearly for the really frequent travelers such as business people.

Anyway, the main reason for me to buy is was indeed convenience and peace of mind. I was sick and tired of the annual hassle of the retirement extension. Also the minimum bank balance issue as described by @PeterRS played some role. Plus the idiotic health insurance now (since last year) required for some (not all!!) retirement visas. Get this: if my ORIGINAL visa to enter Thailand several years back was a Non-OA then I need the insurance, if it was a Non-O (or others, I believe, like tourist visa) then not. The annual extension is the EXACT same process with the EXACT same requirements (mainly being 50+ and that money in the bank), so why the hell does the very old visa, long since expired, determine the insurance requirement? Makes ZERO sense, and is a classic example of TiT. Who knows what other idiotic rules they may come up in the future. 

Some more detail and info on that annoying health insurance: it needs to have 400k Baht for inpatient coverage. That's a rather small amount. I have no use for that and would never ever be able to use it as my own health insurance covers everything. Now get this: depending on the company and your age that insurance policy costs in the range of 40-60k Baht a year (for my age of mid 50s, more for older)!! Luckily, last year I found ONE company offering policies with deductibles of 100k and 200k, the latter of which I bought at an acceptabe rate of 6k. Not too bad comapred to all the others. 

 

13 hours ago, PeterRS said:

It was claimed that this new ridiculous lump sum arrangement was to get rid of those who scammed the system by using crook agents and crook Immigration officers.

Well I know for a fact this is still happening at Immi Pattaya. 

13 hours ago, PeterRS said:

There are various types of membership, but the ones that may be of most interest to potential retirees are likely to be the 5 year and 20 year visas.

Don't want to be overly anal, but I always find it important to use the correct terminology with these things. The 5 and 20 year versions are indeed memberships, but NOT visas. Even the 20 year membership only gives you a 5 year visa sticker. However the 20y membership of course confers the right to receive an new 5 year visa after expiration of the previous one. 

 

13 hours ago, PeterRS said:

and easy annual renewal (yes, that is still required of Elite holders).

this could be a bit misleading to people not familiar with the Elite visa. An annual renewal (of the visa) is NOT required for the Elite holders, as the visa itself is a year one (see above). on each entry into Thailand Elite holders get a 1 year stamp from the date of arrival. Now IF you stay a consecutive year in Thailand, then that 1 year permission to stay will need to be extended. If you leave the contry at least once a year, no such extension is ever necessary, as a new 1 year stamp will be issued upon each arrival.
This is different from the retirement visa where upon arrival you get a stamp until the fixed date that is your extension date. That extension MUST be done once every year with the requirements described here.
(side note: the retirement visa is actually not really a visa but rather a retirememt permission to stay; that retireement extension by itself does NOT confer the right to enter Thailand under the same conditions, and leaving will make you lose that status - UNLESS yhou have a re-entry permit (separate stamp) which then upon arrival cofers the same status. )

So bottom line is, for people who normally travel internationally at least once per year, no extension is ever required for Elite holders. 90 day reporting of course still applies (unless one travels frequently enough to never reach 90 consecutive days, as I used to pre-covid).

[PeterRS]

Thanks for the corrections @anddy. There is one other item re the medical insurance requirements that are increasingly being demanded for some retirement visas/permissions to stay. This is the 40,000 baht requirement for outpatient treatment. This to me is absolutely nuts! Almost all insurance policies for those 50 and above have deductibles. If your policy has a deductible of 50,000 baht, what is the point of 40,000 baht for outpatient treatment when it can never be claimed due to the deductible.

[Boy69]

I don't understand if you take the elite Visa you still have to make the annual renewal ? And if so how you are doing it ? Same as question about the 90 day report .

[PeterRS]

4 hours ago, Boy69 said:

I don't understand if you take the elite Visa you still have to make the annual renewal ? And if so how you are doing it ? Same as question about the 90 day report .

Sorry I confused the issue. I believe the following is correct.

Annual renewal. With an Elite Card, you only have to make a renewal if you remain in Thailand for a full year without at least once having departed for another country. So if you do leave, every time you reenter you automatically get another 12 months from that date. Leave at least once each year and, provided you time the arrivals back accurately, it is likely you will never need to go for an annual renewal.

If, as with many Card holders this last year, you have not been able to leave Thailand, the Elite staff assist with the preparation of all the paperwork for an annual renewal. You then call Elite and make an appointment to go to the Immigration Department at Chaengwattana a week or so (depending on demand) before you have to do the renewal. Once at Immigration, you are met by an Elite staff member who takes you through a special fast track. The renewal process with multi-reentry permit takes only about 30 minutes or less. For the first renewal you pay only for the reentry permit - 1,900 baht. No need for bank books, accommodation proof etc.

90-Day Reports. You still have to make 90 day reports provided you are in the country for 90 consecutive days without departing for another country. So if you do travel, every time you reenter the 90 day clock is reset. If you do require to make a 90-day report and it can not be done on line (I understand the app has recently been down!), you don't have the hassle of going out to Immigration. About 10 days in advance of the date you can take your passport to the Thailand Elite office (next to the W Hotel on Sathorn - Chongnonsi Skytrain station). They do all the work for you. You then pick up the passport from their office a few days later.

[JBC]

I was lucky, I got my Elite membership when it was first introduced. It then cost 1m for life with all the benefits included. I was also lucky with the exchange rate then at 71 baht to the pound.

JOHN

[spoon]

Have anyone ever ventured for the investment visa/PR residency? I think i read somewhere but not sure where or if its up to date.

[PeterRS]

On 3/31/2021 at 12:59 PM, JBC said:

I was lucky, I got my Elite membership when it was first introduced. It then cost 1m for life with all the benefits included. I was also lucky with the exchange rate then at 71 baht to the pound.

JOHN

You were indeed lucky. I suspect more did not do like you because the Immigration requirements for the retirement visa were relatively simple at that time. Over the years Immigration has gradually tightened the requirements and who knows how many more changes are in the works in the coming years. In fact, who knows for how long the 20 year Elite membership will remain at 1 million baht? The 5-year was recently increased by 20%.

The Immigration Department has made it quite clear it is going after those who cheat the system. The stupidity of that approach is that if there were no crook Immigration officers happy to receive under the table payments, there would be no need to tighten anything. The government has also stated its longer term strategy is to go after the more wealthy tourist - and I think it is not unreasonable to assume the more wealthy retiree. If that is the case, when will the 65,000/month inward pension payment be acceptable for the retirement visa? I believe the amount has remained the same for quite some years. If it is raised by, say, 20% how many existing retirees are going to find themselves in difficulties? Thailand remains a relatively inexpensive destination for retirement. But costs have been rising significantly and again who knows when these will stabilise - if ever? 

[spoon]

On your last point, even when they didnt raise the 65000 baht requirement, exchange rate already made some retiree having less disposable income since most of the time, their pension will not increase annually. If thai gov decided to increase the requirement, some probably will not be able to renew at all.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, spoon said:

On your last point, even when they didnt raise the 65000 baht requirement, exchange rate already made some retiree having less disposable income since most of the time, their pension will not increase annually. If thai gov decided to increase the requirement, some probably will not be able to renew at all.

That is the risk with retiring abroad and receiving an income in one currency and spending in another currency. 

Also, by the time people get to retirement age, they should know that exchange rates can move all over the damn place over a prolonged period of time.  So it only makes sense to retire abroad if there's a big safety margin or an escape plan, in case of adverse exchange rate movements.  

Of course people struggling to find 65,000 baht per month are not the target market for the Elite visa.

[Boy69]

4 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Over the years Immigration has gradually tightened the requirements and who knows how many more changes are in the works in the coming years

Who knows if the Elite Visa rules are going to change in the future as well also for those already received one ?

There is no certenty for nothing.

[anddy]

On 3/31/2021 at 9:15 AM, PeterRS said:

The renewal process with multi-reentry permit takes only about 30 minutes or less. For the first renewal you pay only for the reentry permit - 1,900 baht.

I'm sorry to have to correct again. There is no re-entry permit involved, ever, for Elite. Why would that be necessary? What you extend is the permission to stay, which at the last entry took the form of the 1-year-stamp in the passport, then it will take the form of a larger stamp saying "Extension of stay permitted until [date]". That costs 1900 Baht. Again, no need for a re-entry permit, because if you leave the country and thus lose the extended permission to stay no harm is done as upon re-entry you will use the still valid Elite visa getting another 1 year stamp at the airport. 

For a retirement permission-to-stay it is necessary because that permission does not grant the right to exit and re-enter under that same permission and is voided upon leaving the country. That's where the re-entry permit comes into play, which does what its name says, allow to re-enter under the same permission to stay (with the same end date). The re-entry permit costs 3800 Baht.
That whole set up is a bit of an absurdity because if one is allowed to stay, why not leave and come back to continue that stay? Anyway, pointless to get hung up on bureaucratic absurdities in Thailand, or any country in the world for that matter. T

[PeterRS]

6 hours ago, anddy said:

I'm sorry to have to correct again.

No need. My fault for jumping in. I know that to renew the one year retirement visa there are two payments - one for the extension and one for the re-entry permit. I had wrongly assumed the 1,900 baht was the reentry permit. It is not. That costs about 3,900 baht.

[reader]

From Bangkok Post

New wave spoils Elite cardholders' plans

The Thailand Privilege Card Co (TPC) is banking on the Phuket tourism sandbox model to bring new arrivals who are Thailand Elite Card members after the resurgence of the virus delayed their travel plans to Thailand indefinitely.

"No quarantine -- like the Phuket sandbox concept -- and containing the virus are key factors to help existing members finalise their decision to visit Thailand," said Somchai Soongswang, president of TPC, the operator of the Thailand Elite Card service.

As of April 15, 1,100 tourists had visited Thailand under the Thailand Elite Members Quarantine Programme approved by the Centre for Covid-19 Situation Administration (CCSA) back in August 2020.

Meanwhile, 1,500 members who expressed a desire to visit Thailand are still waiting for documents to be processed, available flights, or wish to get vaccines in their home country first before travelling.

Some members had already received certificates of entry (COE) but they postponed their plans due to the latest wave.

After Songkran, only 69 members requested to visit Thailand, down from over 100 per week as everyone wants to wait until the situation improves.

As part of Elite Flexible One, which is aiming to drive property sales by offering a 500,000-baht membership for a five-year multiple-entry visa to those who buy 10-million-baht properties in Thailand, Mr Somchai said a property developer had already received a potential bid but the negotiation was interrupted by the new outbreak as the buyer delayed their decision.

During the first half of fiscal year 2021 (Oct 1, 2020-Mar 31, 2021), TPC approved 2,552 new members, a growth of 93% compared to 1,322 from the same period last year.

Of the new members, 26% are in the 40-49 age group and 24% are in the 30-39 bracket, which surpassed the retirement age group (23.7%) for the first time.

He said younger members are mostly digital nomads or those who work as programmers or software engineers, especially from Japan, the US and Europe.

TPC will work with the Tourism Authority of Thailand to offer products that serve the specific demands of this group, including a shorter visa period of less than five years and co-working spaces with useful facilities.

He said the firm will achieve its target of getting 2,600 new members by April which will help them end accumulated losses of 240 million baht this fiscal year.

The number of Elite cardholders reached 13,564 as of March 30.