The future of gogo bars in Bangkok

[Wynter11]

Thanks all for the insights. If international travel ever actually resumes, I’ll keep it in mind. For now, I’ll just dream. 

[PeterRS]

14 hours ago, Alsfca said:

That's why I am surprised there is not more discussions on the Japanese scene!  And Japanese are very specific but they will deliver what they agreed to.

I am by no means an expert on this topic but here is an example of what the boy can do.  If you look at the yellow highlights on the bottom left of this picture, I believe the Japanese characters mean:

1st left: Atmosphere top (frottage? or) they are the lead in the action and on top.  No Penetration.

1st right: Atmosphere bottom

2nd left: "Bareback" top - this means they penetrate you.  They don't really do bareback, the words just mean penetration.  The little triangle means they are in training.  An x means they don't do it.

2nd right: "Bareback" bottom - this means you penetrate them.

As you can see, it can be a combination of different services.  I imagine if they only do atmosphere top or bottom they will be on top of you most of the time and lead the action.  Kissing and sucking you is something you need to be specific in your email as well.

Hope this helps.

 

Just a word of warning. If a site is only in Japanese, it is unlikely the bar will entertain requests from foreigners and non Japanese speakers.

[Alsfca]

Wynter11 Or you can start studying the subject and be ready for the ride

https://joooint.com/en/japan/tokyo/gay-spas-massage

 

[Londoner]

A word of thanks to those who have posted about the Japanese scene. It's been an eye-opener to me and I now regret that I didn't go there in my younger years.

Which brings me to a question; we know that many Thais are happy to maintain relationships with older men and that their up-bringing and culture is a significant factor in this. Is the same true in Japan? I recall reading about samurai and their young acolytes and the similarity to practices in Classical Greece.

[Keithambrose]

Just to confirm earlier posts. The gay scene in Tokyo is big. Members have already posted some examples of the 'takeaway menu' for boys. They are very detailed.  I have used these, and, as said, the boys are absolutely reliable. I also have been to host bars in Shinjuku, there are several that cater for Westerners, and had good service, tho there are fewer bottom boys, there seems to be a feeling that western cocks are too big! I also should say how clean the boys are, cleaning if teeth for both parties, etc!

[vinapu]

1 hour ago, Londoner said:

I recall reading about samurai and their young acolytes and the similarity to practices in Classical Greece.

perhaps some older members who remember those times better may contribute

[Londoner]

Yes....just as I'm an expert on Classical Boyztown, circa 1998.

[Alsfca]

7 hours ago, Keithambrose said:

Just to confirm earlier posts. The gay scene in Tokyo is big. Members have already posted some examples of the 'takeaway menu' for boys. They are very detailed.  I have used these, and, as said, the boys are absolutely reliable. I also have been to host bars in Shinjuku, there are several that cater for Westerners, and had good service, tho there are fewer bottom boys, there seems to be a feeling that western cocks are too big! I also should say how clean the boys are, cleaning if teeth for both parties, etc!

I haven't been to gay bars in Japan because they are too complicated for me to understand!  It is my understanding that they are small (like under 10 people limit) and very specific in the customers they will accept, say under 30 years old or wearing suits only, etc.

The "takeout or dine in" offers I used in both Osaka and Tokyo were excellent when compared to what I had at My Hero, Prince or V Club.

As Keith said a lot of the Japanese boys don't bottom but it is also true for those in Bangkok!  But I like it that the Japanese are upfront about it and put everything on the menu.  Whereas in Bangkok you have to ask the Mamasan and then he asks the boys in front of everyone!  But of course, the ability to pick your protein from behind a glass room is an experience in itself.  Just like walking into to a Chinese restaurant and pick out your own fish and then tell the chef to steam it or deep fry it.  Yum!!!

When Londoner mentioned about younger and older relationship that reminds me of Ewan McGregor's classic movie, The Pillow book.  I haven't seen it for so long!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114134/

 

[PeterRS]

19 hours ago, vinapu said:

perhaps some older members who remember those times better may contribute

The younger guy/older samurai was certainly a large part of Japanese culture for centuries. It was actually introduced to Japan by a bonze from China around 800 years ago. It was rarely a long term relationship. Once the youth had passed into adulthood, he would be expected to marry and start a family. Eventually the practice came to be frowned upon by the later shogun rulers. Gay boys then tended to become prostitutes and actors but continued in great demand. If there was a golden age for homosexuality in Japan it was between 1650 and 1750. 

Everything changed during the Meiji Restoration. The Americans were largely responsible. The mass of Christian missionaries that followed in the wake of the warships were one reason. But equally the rulers of the country had come to believe that male/male relationships were 'unnatural'. The collapse of the country's feudal structure no doubt also played a part.

You have to remember that much of Japan was destroyed during World War 2. The country was also flooded with vast numbers of GIs, both then and again during the Korean War. Not a few of these were either gay or happy to spend time with a smooth young gay Japanese for a few dollars. Most Japanese, though, had to work extremely hard to drag the country back on to its feet. By the early 1970s this was becoming much more successful than most had hoped. Foreigners started working in Japan as overseas companies moved in. Some certainly were gay, as were some younger Japanese. Whereas the word gay took decades to enter the lingua franca of most countries, the Japanese word 'gei' found almost immediate acceptance. Soon gay bars were to spring up. By the late 1950s, there were more than 20 gay bars in Tokyo - more than in most western cities at the time. Soon the Japanese media were writing about a boom in gay establishments. 

The real gay boom started in the 1980s and early 1990s. If you were a gay young Japanese, you finally had a chance of exploring your sexuality. Most Japanese lived in what we would term tiny homes, many without bathing facilities. So there were community bathing centres. If you lived in one district, the chances were you or your family were known to most in that district. Being openly gay was still frowned upon. On the other hand, if you spent an evening a week in a gay bar quite far removed from your home, you would have the chance of meeting up with a foreigner. With luck, you might develop a relationship with him. With even greater luck you would move in with him. By Japanese standards, foreigners had vastly bigger apartments and had perks like entertaining and travel allowances. Many younger Japanese learned about the world as a result.

Some relationships lasted. I know one American/Japanese gay couple who met in a bar in 1985 and have been together ever since. Others faded. The tradition of older/younger still continued, however. Even in the 1980s, there was an unwritten understanding that if a young Japanese had a relationship with an oder foreigner, not only would he enjoy a much better quality of life, before the relationship soured, the foreigner would have enabled the Japanese to start a small business. So foreign boyfriends were greatly sought after.

Everything began to change again towards the end of the century. Many Japanese had become a great deal richer. This was in part a result of the Reagan administration forcing up the value of the Yen - in 1980, US$1 bought ¥260; by 1999, it was a little over Y100 - finding a foreigner was no longer essential. Japanese had begun to find their fellow Japanese just as attractive, physically as well as financially. That's not to say cross cultural relationships do not continue. They do. But if you do not live in Japan, it has become much more difficult.

[PeterRS]

12 hours ago, Alsfca said:

I haven't been to gay bars in Japan because they are too complicated for me to understand!  It is my understanding that they are small (like under 10 people limit) and very specific in the customers they will accept, say under 30 years old or wearing suits only, etc.

Next time you are in Japan, don't shy away. In Tokyo there are bars like the basement GB which can accommodate around 40 and where gaijin (Japanese looking for western guys) will often congregate. The oddly named Arty Farty is another, although it is up a flight of stairs, Dragon Men and Aiiro Cafe amongst others. Kinsmen on the first floor of a building is a lovely bar usually with a lerge floral decoration and a mix of customers. An older small disco and bar, New Sazae, is on the first floor in the building next to Kinsmen has been a focus of the gay scene for decades! Forget about suits. All the above and most others are totally casual.

[Tartegogo]

On 3/22/2021 at 10:36 PM, PeterRS said:

The full site is here - http://lang.dgdgdg.com/top.php#

This website is sooo well designed, it is insane.

And 12 hours overnights at your hotel for less than $300 for everyone !!!!!!

[Min]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:46 AM, PeterRS said:

The younger guy/older samurai was certainly a large part of Japanese culture for centuries. It was actually introduced to Japan by a bonze from China around 800 years ago. It was rarely a long term relationship. Once the youth had passed into adulthood, he would be expected to marry and start a family. Eventually the practice came to be frowned upon by the later shogun rulers. Gay boys then tended to become prostitutes and actors but continued in great demand. If there was a golden age for homosexuality in Japan it was between 1650 and 1750. 

Everything changed during the Meiji Restoration. The Americans were largely responsible. The mass of Christian missionaries that followed in the wake of the warships were one reason. But equally the rulers of the country had come to believe that male/male relationships were 'unnatural'. The collapse of the country's feudal structure no doubt also played a part.

You have to remember that much of Japan was destroyed during World War 2. The country was also flooded with vast numbers of GIs, both then and again during the Korean War. Not a few of these were either gay or happy to spend time with a smooth young gay Japanese for a few dollars. Most Japanese, though, had to work extremely hard to drag the country back on to its feet. By the early 1970s this was becoming much more successful than most had hoped. Foreigners started working in Japan as overseas companies moved in. Some certainly were gay, as were some younger Japanese. Whereas the word gay took decades to enter the lingua franca of most countries, the Japanese word 'gei' found almost immediate acceptance. Soon gay bars were to spring up. By the late 1950s, there were more than 20 gay bars in Tokyo - more than in most western cities at the time. Soon the Japanese media were writing about a boom in gay establishments. 

The real gay boom started in the 1980s and early 1990s. If you were a gay young Japanese, you finally had a chance of exploring your sexuality. Most Japanese lived in what we would term tiny homes, many without bathing facilities. So there were community bathing centres. If you lived in one district, the chances were you or your family were known to most in that district. Being openly gay was still frowned upon. On the other hand, if you spent an evening a week in a gay bar quite far removed from your home, you would have the chance of meeting up with a foreigner. With luck, you might develop a relationship with him. With even greater luck you would move in with him. By Japanese standards, foreigners had vastly bigger apartments and had perks like entertaining and travel allowances. Many younger Japanese learned about the world as a result.

Some relationships lasted. I know one American/Japanese gay couple who met in a bar in 1985 and have been together ever since. Others faded. The tradition of older/younger still continued, however. Even in the 1980s, there was an unwritten understanding that if a young Japanese had a relationship with an oder foreigner, not only would he enjoy a much better quality of life, before the relationship soured, the foreigner would have enabled the Japanese to start a small business. So foreign boyfriends were greatly sought after.

Everything began to change again towards the end of the century. Many Japanese had become a great deal richer. This was in part a result of the Reagan administration forcing up the value of the Yen - in 1980, US$1 bought ¥260; by 1999, it was a little over Y100 - finding a foreigner was no longer essential. Japanese had begun to find their fellow Japanese just as attractive, physically as well as financially. That's not to say cross cultural relationships do not continue. They do. But if you do not live in Japan, it has become much more difficult.

Wow, did you write a book on this topic, or something?

[reader]

The times they are a changing. While walking this evening on Soi Thaniya, some of those ladies of the evening were casting big smiles at westerners.

[Guest]

On 4/6/2021 at 2:41 AM, PeterRS said:

Just a word of warning. If a site is only in Japanese, it is unlikely the bar will entertain requests from foreigners and non Japanese speakers.

Unlikely, but not out of the question.   I've had perfectly good service from companies with Japanese only sites. 

However, I agree that the odds are better with sites that are translated.

[PeterRS]

17 hours ago, Min said:

Wow, did you write a book on this topic, or something?

Ha! No, I just worked in Japan for a few years and love the country. Those interested in Japanese host bars might like to see the website illustrations I included in a recent post I made in the Gay Asia forum.