The future of gogo bars in Bangkok

[Guest]

I also don't think gogo boys have issues with nudity.

1  Males are generally less sensitive about nudity than females, yet we see females nude in bars.

2 There have been numerous stories of gogo bars sending their boys out in jeans for short periods of time.  We had it in Classic Boys a few years ago.  Also Toy Boys last year.   Plus Nice Boys (briefly) & X-Boys Pattaya this year, whilst Cupidol only had fully clothed lads.  

   Now that's most unlikely to be ALL the boys suddenly getting shy.     It's more likely to be bar management losing the plot (small chance) or the bar not having paid appropriate fees to the brown shirted mafia (large chance). 

3   Ultimately, if board members imagine ourselves as being about 20 & living in Thailand.   Money is short, so there's pressure to work in a gogo bar to make ends meet.  As is typical, we've got on a bus and traveled far from home, so the family and friends are less likely to visit the bar.   Now think what is the most objectionable aspect of it ?

   (i) Prancing around on a stage in something little different to beach wear.

   (ii) Prancing around on stage nude ?  [As long as everyone else does the same]

   (iii)  Getting intimate with some farang 2~3.5 times your age ?

I would suggest that (i) or (ii) are pretty insignificant compared with (iii).

Also the domain and what everyone else does have big effects on behaviour.   We're happy to wear swim wear on the beach.    Or even less in certain saunas.  As long as most other people do.  

In most cases, we'd not be happy to dress like that in the church*, office or local shopping centre.

[*This is an example & I only visit such premises for other people's weddings or funerals]

[Londoner]

Blue Star (Soi Twilight) used to have periods of nudity in the late 90s. There were two separate "troupes" of go-go dancers, one basically twinks, the other macho. I recall the  periods of nudity featuring both troupes together. The macho guys seemed happy, the twinks less so,  some standing with their hands strategically  in front of them, looking most uncomfortable.

I also remember Adam's Apple in Chiang Mai having nude interludes during the show , when a few of the dancers would appear. My memory is that they too looked unhappy. So much so that I couldn't watch.

We know from the manner in which offed guys undress in our rooms, towels tightly around their waists, that nudity is not always welcome.

[PeterRS]

I remember Adam's Apple having both shows with nudity and the boys walking on the catwalk totally nude. This still happened although to a slightly lesser extent after the change of ownership whenever that was (must have been after 2005). Yet I don't recall the boys there appearing nervous about it. Might that have been because many were Shan boys rather than Thais? Chiang Mai's My Way also had nudity, although it later became slightly less visible under some sort of netting.

Even as far back as the 1980s quite a few of the boys in the Twilight bar were not entirely happy being nude and did their best to cover themselves, even though the elderly queens behind the counter would sometimes shout at them them to reveal all. In Barbiery on the other hand the boys seemed to have great fun being nude and showing off.

[Londoner]

The period I was referring to was the late 90s. In those days, the  A A go- go dancers were predominantly Thai twinks, sometimes from hill-tribes. As with blue Star, my experience is that the more macho guys are more comfortable than  twinks.

By the way, the bottoms during sex shows in Bangkok invariably wore jock-straps. Perhaps this is  a similar issue?

[PeterRS]

3 hours ago, Londoner said:

By the way, the bottoms during sex shows in Bangkok invariably wore jock-straps. Perhaps this is  a similar issue?

Before then, some wore a jock-stop, others were totally nude. Those who were nude got extra tips as customers not only saw but could feel the 'goods'!

[Guest]

8 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Even as far back as the 1980s quite a few of the boys in the Twilight bar were not entirely happy being nude and did their best to cover themselves, even though the elderly queens behind the counter would sometimes shout at them them to reveal all. In Barbiery on the other hand the boys seemed to have great fun being nude and showing off.

I think there's quite a lot of psychology, culture and irrational behaviour with nudity.

As far as I know, we're the only species that wears clothes.

Dress code might vary from wearing next to nothing in certain African countries, to having women cover their heads and face.

Public nudity is fairly common in Japanese Onsen, in some gay saunas and so on.

What we're happy to wear very much depends on where we are & what everyone else is doing. 

Also pay might be a factor. Having read for years that the "social order" campaigns stopped nudity in gogo bars, back in early 2020 I decided to check if that really was the case, by also checking girlie gogo bars.  Obviously I firstly spent 10 minutes on google, rather than walking around every bar in Pattaya.   During that time, I read of one case where 2 girls walked into a bar during the day time and asked for jobs as nude dancers, primarily because that paid more.   So the pay might be a factor.   Pattaya has a number of bars with nude female dancers & I've checked it by visiting a couple.  Full on nudity and in the most expensive of them, the draft beer was 129 baht.  

Actually, it was quite good fun and as a minor cold would prevent me offing anyone, it was a perfect time to visit bars where I would have no such intentions.

 

So I always thought girls were typically conditioned to be much more sensitive about nudity, yet there are gogo bars in Pattaya with nude girls, but not bars with nude boys.    

Walking through Patpong, I also notice that the girls at certain gogo bars seem perfectly happy to walk out into the street in their underwear, despite it typically being very skimpy, with for example, the rear offering similar coverage to a G-string.   Perhaps equivalent coverage to the male underwear in the photo.

Two observations there:

1  I bet the same girls would not be at all happy walking around outside of Patpong dressed like that.   I've never seen it in Silom Complex, for example.....    So behaviour adjusts to the domain.

2  Their knickers have much less coverage than bar boys underwear.    There are plenty of minimalist types for male underwear available, including G-strings, jock straps and so on.  I've sometimes seen jock straps in Winner Boys, but generally, even this is rare in gogo bars. 

 

With the right incentives and psychological tactics, bars could get their boys to wear less & be happy doing that.  As you describe for the Barbiery case, above.

[PeterRS]

I believe z909 is correct in highlighting the cultural issue. Most northern Asians have traditionally been perfectly happy to attend public baths and be totally naked in front of others before bathrooms in houses became more of the norm. Even today, though, there are remain some public bathhouses in some cities. Then there is the culture of going to a hot spring (onsen) and being fully naked whilst washing all of the body before entering the variety of hot and cool pools. Some patrons take a very small towel to cover their genitals, but most often these seem to cover their heads!! This is true today around Japan and South Korea. It was even more true in the economically less advanced China.

When the Japanese colonised Taiwan in the first half of the last century, they created a highly developed series of onsen that are dotted around the island. As Taipei has become a more gay city, at least one of the hot springs has become a magnet for gay men ranging from late teens to infinity! Since military service is still essential in Taiwan, young Taiwanese tend to have great bodies. It's important to note, though, that such hot springs are not saunas. They are in some sense more like an ordinary bar without the booze! Basically they are places to enjoy the eye candy, perhaps to enter into a conversation with some - many young Taiwanese speak good English - and make arrangements to meet up for coffee or a drink at another time. Very occasionally there may be a bit of touching in the steam room, but that is the exception rather than the rule, at least until around 11:00pm. Never been to one overnight.

Oddly, given that more Chinese migrated to Thailand than any other South East Asian nation and a century ago Thai ladies frequently were topless, the western concept of not appearing naked in front of others has since permeated the culture. Even just going to the toilet, a Thai guy will make every effort to cover his dick from others!

[Boy69]

From the late 90' when I first visited Thailand till the beginning of Takssin Social order Campaign nudity was anywhere , everywhere and nobody made a big deal of this back than. The boys working in nude at the bars whom I spoke to were more worried about getting cold due dancing nude in strong air condition environment then exposing their bodies in public .The best bar in Soi Twilight was The Boys Bangkok, most of the boys were walking around full nakked and the fucking explicit shows were the best I ever seen.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Boy69 said:

The boys working in nude at the bars whom I spoke to were more worried about getting cold due dancing nude in strong air condition environment then exposing their bodies in public .

As a general principle, gogo bars ought to set the temperature to a level that's comfortable for staff wearing next to nothing and also direct any flow of cold air towards the customers rather than the stage. 

I wouldn't think wearing speedos makes any noticeable difference at all to body temperature, as it's upper body cover that makes the biggest impact in cold weather.  

[Blackbeluga]

I agree with you.In my experience, the services of gogobar boys are not good and not worth the higher cost, especially Jupiter2018. If I look forward short time service, I prefer to go to spas such as vclub , Ganymede spa and senso spa( sad, it’s closed). I feel the spa masseurs are cheaper and provide better services than gogoboy bars. Therefore, I think the business of gogo boy bars will consistently go down. Only personal opinion.

[fedssocr]

On 3/22/2021 at 10:36 PM, PeterRS said:

Just to echo a few points raised by @z909. Get the fun element back in to the bars by having the boys at least appear to be enjoying themselves.

Bring back nudity, even if only for part of an evening. Since it seems OK in the girlie bars, I wonder if it the boys themselves that are too shy about going naked?

Cannot agree more about Japan. Doesn't matter how much of an age difference there is, the boys are there to give the customer a good time. Everything is so well organised, as you'd expect. There may be no gogo as such, but you can either go to one of the host bars or choose from an amazing selection on their internet site. There are several of these and absolutely everything you need to know is there - photos of all the boys, the times they work, the activities they are comfortable with (top/bottom), if they will drink alcohol or not, if they have been in porn movies, full details of the system and how it works, pricing and an order form if you want to reserve a particular boy (recommended). If you order someone to arrive at your hotel room at 8:00pm, they will be there probably at 5 seconds to 8:00! Fees are all inclusive unless you live far away in which case transport will be added. And no hassle with tips as none are expected. This is a screen shot from one of the on-line out call bars -

The full site is here - http://lang.dgdgdg.com/top.php#

Sorry about being off topic - but I am always astonished by the huge number of guys working at these Japanese places. Or at least their websites have a huge number of guys listed - whether they're all actually available could be another story.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, fedssocr said:

Whether they're all actually available could be another story.

I think they are all available, but for only part of the week.   I've typically seen bars with about 10 boys on the premises and you're also given an ipad or folder showing all those available at that time, which might include lads off the premises on call.    Some bars have a schedule, showing who is on when.  Some of the lads claim to be students, so would be part time.    

Although in some instances, I doubted the claims about being students.    One was supposedly in the second year at university studying French and told me he could introduce himself in the language.  Either he's very modest or that's not University level.   

So they typically claim to be doing more than the average working boy in Pattaya, who seems to look for customers, spend time on Tik Tok or Candy Crush, eat, drink, sleep and repeat.  

[Boy69]

2 hours ago, z909 said:

So they typically claim to be doing more than the average working boy in Pattaya, who seems to look for customers, spend time on Tik Tok or Candy Crush, eat, drink, sleep and repeat.  

Yes I agree the typical working boy in Pattaya is lazy,childeesh and caprice.

[PeterRS]

13 hours ago, fedssocr said:

Sorry about being off topic - but I am always astonished by the huge number of guys working at these Japanese places. Or at least their websites have a huge number of guys listed - whether they're all actually available could be another story.

I think you underestimate the Japanese porn industry. It is huge and represents a reasonable proportion of GDP. Visitors to Japan rarely see it, though, apart from the huge number of love hotels dotted around the country with the oddest themes both architecturally and in the rooms. 

You can tell that all the boys work at the site I posted if only because in another part of the site it states precisely when they are available. Some of the guys are students and so naturally are not available during the day. Other may have part-time jobs and also have limited availability. Some others may only be available at the week-end. Others will be taking part in porn movies and so might be off for a week or two. This screen shot lists some of the many dozens available today. 

But the example I cited is from one of two Tokyo host bars under the same management. There are quite several more which is perhaps not surprising given that greater Tokyo is the largest city in the world with 37 million inhabitants!

[Guest]

It's good to see these Japanese websites now have proper google maps showing the location.

One of the first such places I visited was a few miles away from the main gay area and it took about an hour to figure out where it was from the Japanese language map. 

Whereas, with the one above, having checked the location, I could get to it without a map.    I once stayed at a hotel located about 30 metres away, which had a room so small I could lie on the bed and touch all 4 walls.  

 

[PeterRS]

18 hours ago, z909 said:

I once stayed at a hotel located about 30 metres away, which had a room so small I could lie on the bed and touch all 4 walls.  

i can beat even that. I was in a twin bed room standing between the beds and could still touch the walls - albeit at a bit of a stretch LOL

Just to  stay off topic for a moment, the price of rooms in many Japanese hotels other perhaps than those belonging to western brand chains is very largely determined by the nett area. So if you think you are getting a great deal, chances are you will be in little more than a broom cupboard. So do check very carefully. There are modest priced hotels with bigger rooms but you have to search to find them.

[Guest]

The last hotel I stayed at in the Shinjuku are was the Tokyu Stay Shinjuku, which was brand new at the time and just across the road from the gay area.   I would stay there again.

Booking.com shows the room area as 172 sq ft  (16 sq m)

The rooms in The Quarter Silom, which I also thought were compact are 248sq ft (23 sq m)

For some reason Booking.com uses obsolete units.   We can choose language & currency, but changing to SI units does not seem to be an option.

[Wynter11]

On 3/26/2021 at 1:25 PM, PeterRS said:

I think you underestimate the Japanese porn industry. It is huge and represents a reasonable proportion of GDP. Visitors to Japan rarely see it, though, apart from the huge number of love hotels dotted around the country with the oddest themes both architecturally and in the rooms. 

You can tell that all the boys work at the site I posted if only because in another part of the site it states precisely when they are available. Some of the guys are students and so naturally are not available during the day. Other may have part-time jobs and also have limited availability. Some others may only be available at the week-end. Others will be taking part in porn movies and so might be off for a week or two. This screen shot lists some of the many dozens available today. 

But the example I cited is from one of two Tokyo host bars under the same management. There are quite several more which is perhaps not surprising given that greater Tokyo is the largest city in the world with 37 million inhabitants!

Do you have much experience with these agencies Peter? I haven’t seen people talking  about Japan much on here before which seems odd given the quantity of guys apparently available there. 

[PeterRS]

46 minutes ago, Wynter11 said:

Do you have much experience with these agencies Peter? I haven’t seen people talking  about Japan much on here before which seems odd given the quantity of guys apparently available there. 

I have been to Tokyo and a few other cities several times. I only once used a host bar with the boy coming to my hotel. It was a very pleasant experience. The boy was great, did everything as outlined by the bar, but the rules meant it was not quite as free wheeling as in Thailand.

On the other hand, I have visited several of the saunas and almost always had a great time. The most popular one for foreigners is undoubtedly 24 Kaikan in Shinjuku ni-chome. Generally the crowd is mixed age-wise but with more students as it is closer to some universities. It has the usual Japanese bathing area  (Japanese are scrupulously clean!) with two hot relaxing pools along one side. Through a set of curtains is a shower area with most having glory holes, a dry sauna, hot sauna, steam room and rain shower room. On the floor above are several large dimly lit communal areas with upper and lower bunk beds around the walls. Above that a floor of private rooms which cost extra. Japanese seem to like communal areas with just a large mattress for sex. That's not to say there are orgies. Perhaps very occasionally. 

The branch of 24 in the Ueno District has roughly the same layout although on more flors because each is smaller. The original 24 is close to the famous Senso-ji Temple in the Asakusa District (not to be confused with Akasaka which is in the city centre). This is a much older sauna with more working class guys and quite a few quite old men.

Japanese have no issues with appearing nude in front of others.

Tokyo is a huge city and there are gay bars all over the place. But most are small to tiny and only for Japanese. If you accidentally wander in, the mamasan will respectfully ask you to move somewhere else. That is because the mamasans do not want to embarrass their regular customers who might not speak any English. I did once go to a small Japanese only bar in the trendy Shibuya District. But I was with 2 Japanese friends and was warmly welcomed. After I had ordered a drink, the mamasan came up to me and asked for my sexual preferences. I was a bit surprised but it was all so typically Japanese. If I had said top, he would have sat me next to a regular whom he knew to be bottom - and vice versa. 

Shinjuku ni-chome is the main gay area for foreigners. Although it still has well over 200 bars, most will again only be for Japanese. So you have to check websites for the dozen or so which will welcome foreigners and Japanese who want to meet them. Weekends are always the best times to visit.

Lastly the eye candy in Japanese cities is outstanding. I don't think I have ever been in a coffee shop anywhere that there was not one guy who was a dream! Tokyo is a great city for either a vacation or a short stopover. I think most gay guys expect its size and difficulties with language will be too much of a problem. Don't worry! If you do your research in advance and get a good bilingual Atlas of the city, you should have a ball.

[Alsfca]

I haven't used the one pictured above, but I have used a couple of similar services in Tokyo and Osaka. It was pretty straight forward.

You go to the website, choose the guy, email them in English and they will response. If you want to visit them, they will tell you a location to wait (usually a 7 Eleven or gas station close to a metro station) and the boy will come and pick you up. The site will depict how much is for each type of service (they call it course) and what the boy will do (top, bottom or massage only). Kind of like going to a restaurant you choose the number of courses and then the protein:-)

They typically have a predefined course of action when you meet up. Confirm the time, shower with you, massage, loosen you up, and penetrate. They communicate with phone translation app. Comparing to what I experienced in Bangkok, I am actually pretty happy with the service I received in Japan, but of course the price is a bit more than double.

I am actually surprised that there is not a subforum for Japan and Korea.

[Wynter11]

12 hours ago, PeterRS said:

I have been to Tokyo and a few other cities several times. I only once used a host bar with the boy coming to my hotel. It was a very pleasant experience. The boy was great, did everything as outlined by the bar, but the rules meant it was not quite as free wheeling as in Thailand.

12 hours ago, PeterRS said:

Lastly the eye candy in Japanese cities is outstanding. 

Thanks for the details! The limitations were partly what I was curious about as the site has a lot of guys labeled straight with no top or bottom tag, so what they were actually willing to do was a bit vague. I’ve been to Japan once and completely agree about eye candy. Everyone is immaculately dressed and thin. I felt very out of place tbh. 

11 hours ago, Alsfca said:

I haven't used the one pictured above, but I have used a couple of similar services in Tokyo and Osaka. It was pretty straight forward.

You go to the website, choose the guy, email them in English and they will response. If you want to visit them, they will tell you a location to wait (usually a 7 Eleven or gas station close to a metro station) and the boy will come and pick you up. The site will depict how much is for each type of service (they call it course) and what the boy will do (top, bottom or massage only). Kind of like going to a restaurant you choose the number of courses and then the protein:-)

They typically have a predefined course of action when you meet up. Confirm the time, shower with you, massage, loosen you up, and penetrate. They communicate with phone translation app. Comparing to what I experienced in Bangkok, I am actually pretty happy with the service I received in Japan, but of course the price is a bit more than double.

I am actually surprised that there is not a subforum for Japan and Korea.

Thanks for the extra info, as I said above the site seemed a bit vague on what limits they had beyond top or bottom. I completely agree it’s surprising there isn’t more talk about it. I didn’t think they were expensive, quick conversions suggest they’re way cheaper than what’s asked for here locally. 

[PeterRS]

2 hours ago, Wynter11 said:

Thanks for the details! The limitations were partly what I was curious about as the site has a lot of guys labeled straight with no top or bottom tag, so what they were actually willing to do was a bit vague.

Sadly I do not know and can only take a guess. It is only in the last couple of decades or so that Japanese porn photo magazines started featuring any form of anal sex. According to a friend who has had a long-time Japanese partner, cuddling, sucking and HJs tended to be the norm until around then. Although that has all changed now, I imagine that some of the boys who call themselves bottom are worried that they might meet up with a customer with a large cock which they would have difficulty accepting. This might lead to complaints to the mamasan. Why a boy who happens to be top would not wish that to be known, we'd need a Japanese to tell us, I expect.

On the other hand, Japanese have always been heavily into S&M. I was once shown a vdo which had been purchased in one of the regular sex shops. I found totally disgusting. I'll only say it featured screwdrivers and real blood. It's an aspect of Japanese sexuality I have never been able to understand.

[Alsfca]

That's why I am surprised there is not more discussions on the Japanese scene!  And Japanese are very specific but they will deliver what they agreed to.

I am by no means an expert on this topic but here is an example of what the boy can do.  If you look at the yellow highlights on the bottom left of this picture, I believe the Japanese characters mean:

1st left: Atmosphere top (frottage? or) they are the lead in the action and on top.  No Penetration.

1st right: Atmosphere bottom

2nd left: "Bareback" top - this means they penetrate you.  They don't really do bareback, the words just mean penetration.  The little triangle means they are in training.  An x means they don't do it.

2nd right: "Bareback" bottom - this means you penetrate them.

As you can see, it can be a combination of different services.  I imagine if they only do atmosphere top or bottom they will be on top of you most of the time and lead the action.  Kissing and sucking you is something you need to be specific in your email as well.

Hope this helps.

 

[Guest]

In Japan, either be prepared to spend some time translating text or go to a company with a proper English website.

It's a little easier with some of these sites.   The second one is as clear as you're ever going to get.  I'd also trust it, which is more than I can say for certain mamasans in other countries.

https://kids-jp.com/en/tk/

http://lang.dgdgdg.com/top.php#

 

[Alsfca]

That is so true and no additional tips needed.