Can My Friend Survive?

[nynakedtop]

OK, so this is a real situation.

Met a guy on RentMen and although the sex was not great, we kind of connected.

He took his ad down in less than a week, because he landed two "regulars".... one of whom pays him to send him videos of himself, the other for an occasional roll in the hay.

He wants to survive in NYC by "creating content" and trying to get into porn - what that means is he wants to have an OnlyFans page and try to break into porn. His "type" is big dicked slim Latin bottom boy.

Guys -- is he being at all realistic? He is new to NYC and, I fear, bound for trouble.

Reactions? I am worried.

[RockHardNYC]

4 hours ago, nynakedtop said:

big dicked slim Latin bottom boy

If that's how he would/could market himself, then that could present issues. The market is flooded. Even in professional studio porn, it's very challenging to create a lucrative "bottom" stand-out. There have been White porn actors with extraordinary glutes who managed to stake a claim, but I can't think of many Latinos by name. If his face is exceptional and he's known for a rock hard cock while being fucked, then maybe...

There is the Brit, Alex Roman, but I'm not sure of his heritage. He looks Latino to me. I believe he's done plenty of studio porn, and he clearly has made a name for himself by marketing "bottom." He always seems hungry for extra-large cock, and I sometimes wonder if he plans to live a long life without colon issues. But it seems his main focus these days are his privately owned accounts at both Fans sites. I have no idea how much money he makes, but he's talented at selling voracious sex.

[nynakedtop]

16 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

If that's how he would/could market himself, then that could present issues. The market is flooded. Even in professional studio porn, it's very challenging to create a lucrative "bottom" stand-out. There have been White porn actors with extraordinary glutes who managed to stake a claim, but I can't think of many Latinos by name. If his face is exceptional and he's known for a rock hard cock while being fucked, then maybe...

There is the Brit, Alex Roman, but I'm not sure of his heritage. He looks Latino to me. I believe he's done plenty of studio porn, and he clearly has made a name for himself by marketing "bottom." He always seems hungry for extra-large cock, and I sometimes wonder if he plans to live a long life without colon issues. But it seems his main focus these days are his privately owned accounts at both Fans sites. I have no idea how much money he makes, but he's talented at selling voracious sex.

Well, he is "cute" but not exactly handsome..... and he is more slim than lean, if you know what I mean. and he thinks he can support himself doing sex work... but not really escorting,.

I have been seeing some odd stuff lately on twitter - there seems to be a huge number of young guys just looking to "film content" for only fans.... I wonder how lucrative that could be when so many guys who essentially look the same are vying for a rather small market. 

and then there are very niche porn studios who cater to the "ethnic" market - but i assume guys who perform just get a flat rate for showing up, and that market cannot be too lucrative any more since even studio porn is everywhere available for free viewing and downloads.

how much can these guys possibly earn? and how to survive particularly in an expensive/competitive place like new york?

i wonder if my advice to him should really be: DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB.

[RockHardNYC]

2 hours ago, nynakedtop said:

DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB

It's always a question of the numbers. And a strong dose of reality. What is the market for a big-dicked, slender, Latino, bottom?

I'm currently paying some attention to Travis Bryant and Mario Adrion. I was turned on to them because a dear friend is "in love."

Travis (on the left) is gay, and trying to build his talent as a content creator. I think he would like to be taken seriously as a film maker. To build his audience and keep them entertained, he keeps pushing the sex envelope.

Mario has sold himself as straight, and he's also selling a special bond with Travis, his friend. The queen fans seem to love the sexual tension they create, and they're paying for OnlyFans memberships waiting for Travis and Mario to have sex. Mario is a professional model with talent. It's never been easy for male models to sustain a career in modeling.

Both Travis and Mario use YouTube to promote their OnlyFans' accounts. It's against the rules, but they do it anyway. Other guys use Twitter to do similar things. Twitter allows x-rated content. YouTube does not. Since Mario is ever so delicately approaching gay-for-pay, he hasn't gone x-rated yet. I hear he's showing cock on OnlyFans, but not erect, YET. I'm sorry to say, the minute he goes ERECT, his modeling career may be over.

Both Travis and Mario recently did a clout-chaser video on YouTube, invoking Reno Gold. They do not know Reno, but they're trying everything in the social media playbook to attract more attention to themselves. They decided to USE Reno Gold to steal more fans. And here's a conundrum. Reno is a gay porn star. Travis and Mario are nowhere near that, and no one is quite sure Mario is ready to turn that corner. In the meantime, fans are hungry for more envelope-pushing content. The pressure to do more, to increase membership sales, never ends. Mind you, all three guys are White, hot, and sexy. They have some editing talent, too.

Women sex workers are doing very well on OnlyFans. It seems many straight guys are willing to open wallets even if the girl is not great looking, even if she refuses to show titties. I think straight guys can be DUMB as shit, but good for those girls.

A lot of young gay guys want to believe the same pot of gold is true for them. They, too, can get lucky on OnlyFans. In the meantime, no one will come to OnlyFans if they've never heard of you, which means you MUST run a pretty good side show either on YouTube or Twitter, and hope that your "act" catches some kind of fire.

The demand for content and marketing never ends. There may be room for some cream at the top, but I think a lot of people are deluding themselves. No matter how you slice it, being self-employed and successful is HARD WORK. Sustaining success even harder.

[BiBottomBoy]

I don't know any guys with an Only Fans but I know quite a few girls with them. They use it to supplement their income not as their base income itself. Yes, some weeks it pay way more than their steady job but other weeks not so much. He should probably have one straight job he can pay the rent with. Also porn is always put under a microscope and onlyfans may be taken down eventually and then he'll have nothing

[nynakedtop]

well, i thought i knew everything about "our" world here but i am learning a lot about a whole OnlyFans subculture out there....

it's like there are thousands of guys (I would say) who post on twitter to each other, re-tweet each others' postings, all looking to "make content" or get people to sign up for their OF pages - i mean thousands, really

i would say 100% unsustainable..... people may subscribe for a month but then face it we get bored and move on. i know that even with OF pages i was most excited about i generally lost interest before the first month was even over. there's only so much a guy can do or show to sustain interest.

and (i further learned) in the highly competitive wannabe porn "star" arena, the going rate is like $250 for a scene. ugh.

looks to me that the fantasy of quitting a job and making it in the world of porn is pretty much just that - a fantasy.

[BiBottomBoy]

yep. it's the one industry where the rate of pay for girls is quite good but for boys not so much.

[RockHardNYC]

38 minutes ago, nynakedtop said:

i would say 100% unsustainable

That is one serious question that hasn't been fully answered yet. Now that OnlyFans is quickly becoming the golden goose for some, everyone and anybody wants a slice, without realizing what it actually takes to build an audience and stay on top. Just one example: Most of those on top are not relying a phone cameras alone for content. Learning the production equipment and software requires time and money.

43 minutes ago, nynakedtop said:

people may subscribe for a month but then face it we get bored and move on

Famous gay-for-pay social media star Jake Orion is learning that lesson.

He doesn't want to be a gay porn star, but his fans are begging for it. Jake struggles. He's finding out there's limited appetite for jack-off videos, no matter how big and pretty your dick is.

If your goal is to please a gay audience and suck their wallets dry, you better deliver. Most gay men don't enjoy being played. Jake has reduced his "join" price to $5 for a month, all in an attempt to get more subscribers. I call his attempt desperate, but he clearly needs/wants the cash. If he doesn't start taking on more guy sex partners, I can't see how he grows.

Jake did a "gay" porn video with Vadim Black on his OnlyFans account. There was a ton of promotion and a ton of controversy over the obvious money-grab. The video turned out to be AWFUL. Worse than a mechanical happy ending. Not even worth the discounted $5 join rate.

I don't know. If you use and abuse your gay audience for instant cash grabs, how long can anyone sustain this scam behavior?

[BiBottomBoy]

well I don't think the dudes friend is trying to scam.

but other people scamming may cut down on the popularity of the platform itself and make it harder for him to make money

[RockHardNYC]

26 minutes ago, BiBottomBoy said:

I don't think the dudes friend is trying to scam.

Have no clue who you are talking about here.

Scam is a tough word, for sure. When it comes to marketing, there are many ways a seller can finesse/seduce his customer into opening his wallet and pulling out cash to purchase a seller's product. For me, intent matters.

Now I realize a customer can't always prove seller intent, however, if a seller has no finesse, and the sale looks and feels like nothing more than a money-grab, then I'm quick to dump that behavior into the "scam" category. In the world of escorting, most of us have been there, done that.

If a seller wants my money, then at least offer me a solid, truthful reason to fork it over. Don't promise me something and fail to deliver. Don't play with my emotions or the state of my horniness and try to manipulate me and my wallet. The minute I feel like I'm being played, that's the same minute my wallet closes and I move on.

If you're hot and you're really desperate for money, then say so. I'm far more likely to respond to blatant honesty (it can be very sexy) than I am to some mediocre acting effort. However, if you are a very good actor/seducer, there can be a reward for that, as well. 

[BiBottomBoy]

If you are paying for dick you should get dick.

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, BiBottomBoy said:

If you are paying for dick you should get dick.

Ah, and there lies the crux. Travis Bryant and Mario Adrion want you to believe their fans are getting dick, especially with their lure to get you to join OnlyFans. They are teasing their (mostly gay) audience on YouTube. Someone on YouTube called Mario a "prick tease" in the comment section, and that comment was quickly deleted. These manipulators are definitely controlling their critics' voices. First class censorship. And the truth is: Travis and Mario are prick teasers. They happen to be excellent at the game, but refuse to address it honestly, even though they endlessly profess their honesty to their fans. The whole "show" smells of a cash-grab ruse to me. Sucking at the teat of generous gays and using them for personal financial gain.

Jake Orion also has a YouTube channel that he uses to attract new fans. He's a top-of-the-line narcissist, which makes many of his videos difficult to watch. He seems to be very honest about what he will or won't do, and he uses a lot of words to talk endlessly about it. Almost no pretense. I wish he would be more seductive, but he isn't that guy.

Jake claims to enjoy/prefer female pussy, but he also likes anal stimulation. That can be very sexy for a straight guy with a gay following. He has an older video on OnlyFans of him getting fucked by a dildo machine. He's also famous for shooting his own cum in his mouth, but I'm sorry, how many times can that get you off as a gay viewer?

Personally, I think Jake could make a great gay-for-pay porn star. But his ego is too big now and his narcissism won't allow him to be directed, and Jake badly needs direction. I'm not sure where he goes from here. He's been in this game a long time.

Edited December 14, 2020 by RockHardNYC

[nynakedtop]

Sooooo....

Back on topic: what do people think a newbie needs to do in order to have a lucrative career in sex work in NYC? Is it enough to want it....? (Haha....)

We all see guys come and go (or cum and go), and I honestly have met very few guys who will proudly say that they are looking forward to a comfortable life as a sex worker.... so I was surprised when my friend's ambitions seem to go no further.

When I survey the twitter-sphere these days, I am finding fewer guys looking to actually hook up and lots and lots and lots of self-promotion. Makes me yearn for the good old days, haha.

[BiBottomBoy]

A newbie needs to do straight for pay.

Porn companies have realized women will pay a lot of money to see a verifyably gay dude fuck a woman.

[nynakedtop]

1 minute ago, BiBottomBoy said:

A newbie needs to do straight for pay.

Porn companies have realized women will pay a lot of money to see a verifyably gay dude fuck a woman.

But how does that play out for a skinny latino bottom, haha..... who probably has never been with a woman!

[TotallyOz]

48 minutes ago, nynakedtop said:

But how does that play out for a skinny latino bottom, haha..... who probably has never been with a woman!

Not very well to be honest.

He sounds like my type. But, I have never joined any fans sites. I'd need a personal connection with one to join.

[nynakedtop]

2 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

Not very well to be honest.

He sounds like my type. But, I have never joined any fans sites. I'd need a personal connection with one to join.

wow, i think you just said it all..... besides being useful as an occasional masturbatory aid, these "money making" sites really do not offer much of substance. paying to see a 6 minute clip of some guy you know nothing about has limited appeal, and is certainly not something i would invest in.

now, a guy i have actually met and connected with sending me a video gift might be a different story, haha. but my friend does not seem that keen on the personal connection, given that he took his RM ad down within one week. (some story that a client who would pay him for videos would only do so if his ad disappeared!)

[BiBottomBoy]

Well Vivid paid a skinny white bottom $500k to do his first sex with a woman.

They had to set up videos of gay porn above him and out of site of the camera for him to get it up/keep it up.

Funnily enough in the behind the scenes clip available for extra money the girl told him that he was the first guy to ever make her cum during a shoot.

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, nynakedtop said:

paying to see a 6 minute clip of some guy you know nothing about has limited appeal, and is certainly not something i would invest in.

Yet, RentMen included video clips on their website many years ago as not only a great way to add revenue, but a fantastic opportunity for customers get to know the escort who dared to post a video. Frankly, I thought the video idea was brilliant for everyone concerned. It made the business a lot more difficult for the headless guys who wanted to remain on the DL. A kick in the ass to the scammers, as well.

Voices matter to me, so hearing an escort's voice is extremely helpful when making a first-time pick. Getting a sense of a guy's personality, even a small sense, is worth far more than just a mere naked photo of the guy. Seeing a guy's cock and ass in action takes the fantasy to a whole new level. A what-you-see-is-what-you-could-get kind of thing.

In my case, there is no question that a video helps to finalize the deal.

2 hours ago, nynakedtop said:

I am finding fewer guys looking to actually hook up and lots and lots and lots of self-promotion.

It may be too soon to know what Covid's effect will be on escorting. Many people long for one-on-one. I don't really see that need going away, ever. But Covid has caused a lot of people to switch to camming and/or the two Fans sites, people who never considered sex work before. Many sex workers claim OnlyFans is more fun than escorting; it's safer, and there's more money. You can reach many more fans by default.

2 hours ago, nynakedtop said:

Back on topic

Sorry. I've been waist-deep in sex worker/social media research, and your thread struck a chord.

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, nynakedtop said:

these "money making" sites really do not offer much of substance

I have to disagree here. But keep in mind, I'm very critical of studio-produced porn. Always have been.

Most of the porn that actually turns me on these days (or even entertains me) is amateur: exhibitionist guys who simply want to have sex while others watch. Some of these guys have become masters at creating erotic content. That independence, that creativity, that new look at erotic content is not going away anytime soon, and I'm thrilled about that.

If I'm going to rely on a visual to get my rocks off, I want to rely on the visual I know will do the deed. If I find a sexy guy who catches my attention (usually on NewTumbr), I want to see more. If OnlyFans is the only way to see more, I'm there.

Substance is in the eye of the beholder.

[RockHardNYC]

Just a slight hijack...

The click-bate boys are at it again, and this time they've enlisted another, supposedly, straight model. I suspect that many gay guys are going to fall prey to their OnlyFans' account, especially now that more Covid relief is on the way. Sign up and spend money to see no dick. Buyer beware.

Can you think of a better thumbnail photo on YouTube to attract new gay suckers, eh, I mean, customers? And how about that headline: "Straight Guy Sandwich?"

What's that old Mazeppa refrain? “You Gotta Have a Gimmick, If You Wanna Have a Chance.”

These wannabe queens sure know how to produce some serious click bate.

 

[Pete1111]

On 12/13/2020 at 11:25 AM, nynakedtop said:

OK, so this is a real situation.

Met a guy on RentMen and although the sex was not great, we kind of connected.

He took his ad down in less than a week, because he landed two "regulars".... one of whom pays him to send him videos of himself, the other for an occasional roll in the hay.

He wants to survive in NYC by "creating content" and trying to get into porn - what that means is he wants to have an OnlyFans page and try to break into porn. His "type" is big dicked slim Latin bottom boy.

Guys -- is he being at all realistic? He is new to NYC and, I fear, bound for trouble.

Reactions? I am worried.

What kind of trouble do you fear he'll stumble into?

 

I have not stuck with most of the onlyfans pages I've tried.  There are factors that make some onlyfans pages a winner and most of them not.

But he'll never know unless he tries.  What can it hurt?

 

Why does he think he is a good candidate to break into porn?     Did you ask him his opinion of himself, whether he thinks he has a good look or a plan how he'll style himself.   I get off on a sexy, scruffy nerd, but not everyone does.  

[RockHardNYC]

9 hours ago, Pete1111 said:

Why does he think he is a good candidate to break into porn?...I get off on a sexy, scruffy nerd, but not everyone does.

Well, in the simplest of terms, sex does sell. Considering the x-rated photo of the boy that nynakedtop posted, the boy has plenty to offer. OnlyFans is a lot like American Idol, everyone wants an audition to prove they're the next big superstar. But when you think of the percentages that actually make a dent, the ones whose names you remember, the cream at the top is a tiny droplet among an ocean of tiny droplets.

The game of building a fan base is a fascinating talent to me. Escorts do it one client at a time. With the help of social media, everyday exhibitionists and narcissists can do it one video at a time. Some are very good at the game, and actually show some very hot and sexy stuff, while others are scrambling to entertain you without showing much.

[BiBottomBoy]

yeah it's a risk I don't think I would have taken when I was  young.

But let him try. he still has time to make mistakes.

[Guest]

most of the guys on OnlyFans don’t know a anything about marketing, building a business/brand from the ground up.  
1. start a page w free access and post 7 minute videos as minimum time content ....there way too many still pics and :30 second videos 

2. promote the free page all over social media 

3. when there is a base of 100 free subscribers w subsequent likes, start to charge $3.00 for monthly access as an experiment and see what people will pay

4. Increase/decrease price based on what users will pay

Alex Roman is successful on OF because he updates frequently (at least weekly) and he posts long videos.  That’s what people want to see.  Most creators don’t update frequently and/or post very short videos w bad lighting & bad camera work.  There are creators making a lot of money - those that do view it as a job and approach it professionally.  The worst user experience is subscribing and the content is poor and the creator is asking for more $$$ to unlock longer videos.