But mah heritage!

[Latbear4blk]

 

[JKane]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Though I preferred the General Grant... Seriously, "just some good old boys, never meaning no harm..." celebrating a symbol of oppression and segregation every episode.  

 

 

[geodesic]

As someone who is not American, I've been reading about US history.. Slavery, Jim Crow, etc.. had no idea how brutal it was.

I'm really struggling to understand why people don't want to remove statutes of Confederate generals - weren't these the bad guys who lost the Civil war? Aren't they fundamentally anti-American? Why are some Americans so keen to memorialise brutal slavemasters in 2020 - am I missing something?

[Lucky]

16 minutes ago, geodesic said:

As someone who is not American, I've been reading about US history.. Slavery, Jim Crow, etc.. had no idea how brutal it was.

I'm really struggling to understand why people don't want to remove statutes of Confederate generals - weren't these the bad guys who lost the Civil war? Aren't they fundamentally anti-American? Why are some Americans so keen to memorialise brutal slavemasters in 2020 - am I missing something?

No. We have a share of idiots in the country who are quite vocal. One of them is the president.

[Latbear4blk]

59 minutes ago, geodesic said:

As someone who is not American, I've been reading about US history.. Slavery, Jim Crow, etc.. had no idea how brutal it was.

I'm really struggling to understand why people don't want to remove statutes of Confederate generals - weren't these the bad guys who lost the Civil war? Aren't they fundamentally anti-American? Why are some Americans so keen to memorialise brutal slavemasters in 2020 - am I missing something?

Many people in the South still believe that they were invaded by the North, and see those generals as their heroes. You would be surprise at how many people in this country would be very happy as slave owners.

The truth is complicated. The main cause of the Civil War was, rather than a Romantic fight for/against Freedom, a clash between two economic systems. The South was based in extensive agriculture with slaved workers, the North was based in manufactures with free labor. Link the dots. 

[caeron]

A lot of white racists here like to lie to themselves.

They like to pretend that the old south was full of gentlemen and honor instead of horror and evil.They like to pretend that the mean old north beat up on them unfairly... even though they started the war. They like to pretend the civil war was about states rights and their liberties. After a fashion, they're correct, but if you actually read the articles of secession of most of the southern states the only right in question is the right to own other people.

They tell themselves these lies because they want to whitewash the shit out of their racist fantasies. 

[JKane]

The statues were not truly related to the war in the first place, they went up in the 1920s through 1970s, specifically as a symbol of racism and against integration and equal rights.  

General Lee explicitly said there shouldn't be statues of him.  

 

[geodesic]

1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

Many people in the South still believe that they were invaded by the North, and see those generals as their heroes. You would be surprise at how many people in this country would be very happy as slave owners.

The truth is complicated. The main cause of the Civil War was, rather than a Romantic fight for/against Freedom, a clash between two economic systems. The South was based in extensive agriculture with slaved workers, the North was based in manufactures with free labor. Link the dots. 

I really hope you are joking when you say lots of people would be happy as Slave owners! Interesting point about the underlying reason for the Civil War - makes perfect sense.

16 minutes ago, caeron said:

A lot of white racists here like to lie to themselves.

They like to pretend that the old south was full of gentlemen and honor instead of horror and evil.They like to pretend that the mean old north beat up on them unfairly... even though they started the war. They like to pretend the civil war was about states rights and their liberties. After a fashion, they're correct, but if you actually read the articles of secession of most of the southern states the only right in question is the right to own other people.

They tell themselves these lies because they want to whitewash the shit out of their racist fantasies. 

The issue is that you have people whose grandparents grew up at a time when black people were not regarded as human beings - it is therefore unsurprising that much of the South is racist. I agree with a point that was made earlier in this thread, that you need the 'Silent Generation' to die off. 

What I don't understand is that the popularity of the Confederate flag kind suggests that some Southerners want secede from the US - this is by definition anti-American. It is by definition unpatriotic. 

So take Colin Kaepernick's 2016 protest - he took the knee to protest police brutality committed against African Americans. I find it really ironic that the same people tend to express moral outrage about 'disrespecting the flag'.

[tassojunior]

Basically the south needs a regional symbol to rally around other than the confederate flag with it's blatant racial connections. Unfortunately there isn't one. Even the English punk rock Rockabilly bands of the 80's used it. The confederate flag is only historically a flag of a war to preserve slavery.  

Edited June 22, 2020 by tassojunior

[geodesic]

6 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

Basically the south needs a symbol to rally around other than the confederate flag with it's blatant racial connections. Unfortunately there isn't one. Even the English punk rock Rockabilly bands of the 80's used it. The confederate flag is only historically a flag of a war to preserve slavery.  

How about the US flag? 

[tassojunior]

4 minutes ago, geodesic said:

How about the US flag? 

Edited to "regional".