Against USA state terrorism

[tassojunior]

37 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

C'mon. Everyone is a fascist. You are emptying the word out of all political meaning and turning it into a generic insult. 

The first 5 are the people who have been most responsible for killing the most dark-skinned people in the world the past decade. But it was just millions of dark skin foreigners, so to Americans there's more important issues. And yes, by any definition, the Neo-Liberals in the Democratic party and the Neo-Cons in the Republican party are fascists. The sad state of America ruled now by two corporatist fascist parties.   

[Buddy2]

Tasso called Lyndon Johnson a hater of blacks on the other site, and later wrote he knew little about Johnson. 

[tassojunior]

5 minutes ago, Buddy2 said:

Tasso called Lyndon Johnson a hater of blacks on the other site, and later wrote he knew little about Johnson. 

Would you like to quote for us all the thousands of times as president that Johnson called blacks ni^^ers and repeatedly said the civil rights acts were just a ni^^er bill to get blacks to vote Democratic for 200 years. It's close whether LBJ hated ni^^ers or g^^ks more, but he managed to exterminate 3 million of the latter race. Blacks and Asians are human just like other humans and deserve to be treated as humans with respect. 

[Buddy2]

52 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

Would you like to quote for us all the thousands of times as president that Johnson called blacks ni^^ers and repeatedly said the civil rights acts were just a ni^^er bill to get blacks to vote Democratic for 200 years. It's close whether LBJ hated ni^^ers or g^^ks more, but he managed to exterminate 3 million of the latter race. Blacks and Asians are human just like other humans and deserve to be treated as humans with respect. 

On the other site, you wrote about seldom talking to your mentor, Dean Rusk, about Johnson.

 

Reading Robert Caro's books on Johnson would help  you understand Kennedy's attempt to use LBJ more effectively on civil rights. Robert Kennedy didn't agree.

 

You may want to  look at how politcal scientists view Johnson and civil rights.

[tassojunior]

33 minutes ago, Buddy2 said:

On the other site, you wrote about seldom talking to your mentor, Dean Rusk, about Johnson.

 

Reading Robert Caro's books on Johnson would help  you understand Kennedy's attempt to use LBJ more effectively on civil rights. Robert Kennedy didn't agree.

 

You may want to  look at how politcal scientists view Johnson and civil rights.

Robert Caro is neither a black LBJ called a ni**er or a Vietnamese who LBJ exterminated 3 million of.

[Buddy2]

1 minute ago, tassojunior said:

Robert Caro is neither a black LBJ called a ni**er or a Vietnamese who LBJ exterminated 3 million of.

Johnson also implemented civil action programs in South Vietnam. The purpose was to bring needed medical attention to children in small villages.

 

I know because my best friend worked in a village and did amazing things for the young people in his assigned  South Vietnam village, He wasn't an officer, but persisted with the battalion Lieutenant Col. Until  successful.

This is not something I know from reading, or watching television or an opinion, I was there. And we still close friends over 50 years later.

[Latbear4blk]

8 hours ago, tassojunior said:

The first 5 are the people who have been most responsible for killing the most dark-skinned people in the world the past decade. But it was just millions of dark skin foreigners, so to Americans there's more important issues. And yes, by any definition, the Neo-Liberals in the Democratic party and the Neo-Cons in the Republican party are fascists. The sad state of America ruled now by two corporatist fascist parties.   

Now you are stretching the definition of fascism. 

I relate to your criticism. Even when Obama may be the most progressive and likable president the USA has had, I am not a fan. He continued the American tradition of imperialism, bullying, abuse and violation of independent nations rights and POC lives. 

But he is not a fascist. The USA government is a Bourgeois Liberal Democracy, we can say it is a plutocracy, but it is not an example of Fascist regime. 

[Buddy2]

8 hours ago, tassojunior said:

Robert Caro is neither a black LBJ called a ni**er or a Vietnamese who LBJ exterminated 3 million of.

Black voters disagreed in 1964 when they overwhelming voted for Johnson. And they disagree again now in 2020, this time about Joe Biden in the Democratic Party primaries.

[SexyAsianStud]

13 hours ago, tassojunior said:

The first 5 are the people who have been most responsible for killing the most dark-skinned people in the world the past decade. But it was just millions of dark skin foreigners, so to Americans there's more important issues. And yes, by any definition, the Neo-Liberals in the Democratic party and the Neo-Cons in the Republican party are fascists. The sad state of America ruled now by two corporatist fascist parties.   

I think you need to spend some time doing some quality research of what "fascism" actually is. All you are doing now is diluting the meaning of the word by rather carelessly slinging it around.

Edited June 23, 2020 by SexyAsianStud
omitted a clause

[tassojunior]

4 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Now you are stretching the definition of fascism. 

I relate to your criticism. Even when Obama may be the most progressive and likable president the USA has had, I am not a fan. He continued the American tradition of imperialism, bullying, abuse and violation of independent nations rights and POC lives. 

But he is not a fascist. The USA government is a Bourgeois Liberal Democracy, we can say it is a plutocracy, but it is not an example of Fascist regime. 

 

2 minutes ago, SexyAsianStud said:

I think you need to spend some time doing some quality research of what "fascism" actually is.

 

The surveillance state we have and are going deeper into, the police state where a military-like force controls the population, the ability to exterminate millions of any undesirable race anywhere on earth with buttons, and the complete devolvement of government onto two private corporations which are both controlled by the fewer and fewer who own most of the country's wealth and media are more fascist than any dictators of the 30's or Orwell could have ever imagined. Fascism is the norm now, not democracy.  

[Buddy2]

13 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

 

 

The surveillance state we have and are going deeper into, the police state where a military-like force controls the population, the ability to exterminate millions of any undesirable race anywhere on earth with buttons, and the complete devolvement of government onto two private corporations which are both controlled by the fewer and fewer who own most of the country's wealth and media are more fascist than any dictators of the 30's or Orwell could have ever imagined. Fascism is the norm now, not democracy.  

Those comments come off as a bit unhinged. I spent time in Spain while Franco was still alive (1973). As we know, Spain was a real fascist country then.

One had to be very careful driving from Southern Spain to Madrid because there were thugs in the local police forces. Less so in the Basque country. Playboy was sold minus naked women in Madrid.

 

I was glad to return to the United States.

 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Buddy2

[JKane]

Where did this thread fly off the rails from a discussion of BLM and a country's DOMESTIC terrorism against its own citizens?  

 

 

 

 

 

[SexyAsianStud]

10 minutes ago, tassojunior said:

 

 

The surveillance state we have and are going deeper into, the police state where a military-like force controls the population, the ability to exterminate millions of any undesirable race anywhere on earth with buttons, and the complete devolvement of government onto two private corporations which are both controlled by the fewer and fewer who own most of the country's wealth and media are more fascist than any dictators of the 30's or Orwell could have ever imagined. Fascism is the norm now, not democracy.  

Pardon me while I just for a moment descend into a rabbit-hole that is, I believe, worth a short journey into and back.

It is correct to state that the policies of fascism (both the policies of the countries of fascist dictatorship, and those policies like Trumpian "emergency measures", etc.,) are “fascist” in character. 

 

Today, we have no true mass fascist movement: We lack paramilitary squads roaming the streets, and a communist uprising that supposedly merits destruction by a one-party fascist state. But a number of leaders recently have been drawing on a mix of traditions that, jumbled together, begin to take on fascist-like appearances.

These current movements are fascistic rather than truly fascist. Examples of such fascistic leaders abound.  President Donald Trump granted the first private audience with a sitting president to Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban, a fascistic leader who prefers to think of Hungary as the historic kingdom guarding the Christian world. His government has whipped up racist resentment of Middle Eastern migrants, European Union bureaucrats and, it’s implied (though never stated by Orban himself), a global Jewish financial conspiracy. Hungary has even rehabilitated controversial national hero Admiral Miklos Horthy, the World War II-era dictator who allied with Nazi Germany and deported a half-million Jews to be gassed.

But the forces and traits that gave rise to historical fascism—the desire to keep communists at bay, to avenge defeat in World War I—no longer exist. Today’s fascistic leaders aren’t as aggressive and bellicose with their geopolitical expansions, because they aren’t responding to a single, global grievance. Nobody fears a global communist movement will topple governments one by one. The closest transnational threat, militant Islamism, is wavering after the routing of ISIS. So current authoritarian leaders have a harder time galvanizing their followers and justifying repressive policies. But softer and more sophisticated approach—a fascistic one, not a fascist one—can win a mob of angry followers. As today’s authoritarians have evolved with the times, they’ve found ways to incorporate fascistic thinking without discrediting themselves as outright fascists.

[tassojunior]

37 minutes ago, SexyAsianStud said:

Pardon me while I just for a moment descend into a rabbit-hole that is, I believe, worth a short journey into and back.

It is correct to state that the policies of fascism (both the policies of the countries of fascist dictatorship, and those policies like Trumpian "emergency measures", etc.,) are “fascist” in character. 

 

Today, we have no true mass fascist movement: We lack paramilitary squads roaming the streets, and a communist uprising that supposedly merits destruction by a one-party fascist state. But a number of leaders recently have been drawing on a mix of traditions that, jumbled together, begin to take on fascist-like appearances.

These current movements are fascistic rather than truly fascist. Examples of such fascistic leaders abound.  President Donald Trump granted the first private audience with a sitting president to Hungary’s Prime Minister Viktor Orban, a fascistic leader who prefers to think of Hungary as the historic kingdom guarding the Christian world. His government has whipped up racist resentment of Middle Eastern migrants, European Union bureaucrats and, it’s implied (though never stated by Orban himself), a global Jewish financial conspiracy. Hungary has even rehabilitated controversial national hero Admiral Miklos Horthy, the World War II-era dictator who allied with Nazi Germany and deported a half-million Jews to be gassed.

But the forces and traits that gave rise to historical fascism—the desire to keep communists at bay, to avenge defeat in World War I—no longer exist. Today’s fascistic leaders aren’t as aggressive and bellicose with their geopolitical expansions, because they aren’t responding to a single, global grievance. Nobody fears a global communist movement will topple governments one by one. The closest transnational threat, militant Islamism, is wavering after the routing of ISIS. So current authoritarian leaders have a harder time galvanizing their followers and justifying repressive policies. But softer and more sophisticated approach—a fascistic one, not a fascist one—can win a mob of angry followers. As today’s authoritarians have evolved with the times, they’ve found ways to incorporate fascistic thinking without discrediting themselves as outright fascists.

Then you're not paying attention. Plenty of national leaders from the Philippines to Russia to Israel to Brazil and half of Europe are now not shy about describing themselves as fascist, Ayelot Shaked even ran a commercial describing herself as a proud fascist. Peter Thiel here says maybe it's time for us to forget the romance of "democracy" when the leeches are threatening the elite of society who make all the advancements and deserve to have most of the wealth. And  if you have any illusions about Biden, remember he was the one who screamed that he would not have his grandchildren growing up in an America that was a RACIAL JUNGLE and promptly got his Crime Bill of 1994 passed imprisoning an additional 1 million black men long-term, many for life. More racism than fascism, but getting there quick. Great match for Kamala who wanted to get black kids off the streets by jailing their parents if they weren't in school and tried to execute a black man she knew was innocent to advance her career (she did get plenty of credit for refusing to stop executions of plenty of other black men). Police states are getting to be the popular norm quickly. Like "liberal vs conservative", "Democrat vs. Republican" are getting to be meaningless terms.

Edited June 23, 2020 by tassojunior

[Buddy2]

This is not the first time Brazil has been controller by a right wing government, often involving the military. The same for the Philippines and Eastern Europe.

 

Still, your main focus seems to be the United States and Biden and Harris.

 

And not so much Trump.

 

Biden would be another Gerald Ford, a nice guy who has a wealth of government experience.  I am always confused when people viciously attack Harris. Tulsi Gabbard comes to mind, but  Tulsi did endorse Joe Biden. Good for her.

[SexyAsianStud]

1 hour ago, Buddy2 said:

This is not the first time Brazil has been controller by a right wing government, often involving the military. The same for the Philippines and Eastern Europe.

 

Still, your main focus seems to be the United States and Biden and Harris.

 

And not so much Trump.

 

Biden would be another Gerald Ford, a nice guy who has a wealth of government experience.  I am always confused when people viciously attack Harris. Tulsi Gabbard comes to mind, but  Tulsi did endorse Joe Biden. Good for her.

The danger of fascism lies in its ability to coopt legitimate resentments resulting from inequality and refashion them as hostility towards outsiders. Instead of addressing working-class grievances, fascistic regimes offer their followers a different form of reward by redrawing the lines of inclusion and exclusion, mass-producing myth and arms in equal measure. Until moderates and leftists can identify these characteristics and talk, clearly, about their costs, fascistic thinking will be hard to challenge.

[Buddy2]

Senator Patrick McCarran of Nevada was a Democrat but still friendly with Senator Joseph McCarthy and especially Francisco Franco of Spain. In the Senate, he was often referred to as "Senator from Madrid."  When he visited Spain, Senator McCarran  was greeted like a head of State.

 

Comment: I remember McCarran, and wondered how he compared to the current "known" fascists, Joe Biden, Barack Obama and Kamela Harris.  The answer: not at all.

[Latbear4blk]

4 hours ago, tassojunior said:

 

 

The surveillance state we have and are going deeper into, the police state where a military-like force controls the population, the ability to exterminate millions of any undesirable race anywhere on earth with buttons, and the complete devolvement of government onto two private corporations which are both controlled by the fewer and fewer who own most of the country's wealth and media are more fascist than any dictators of the 30's or Orwell could have ever imagined. Fascism is the norm now, not democracy.  

With all respect, this is like discussing politics with a teen ager. According to your definition all regimes, even before the rising of capitalism, are fascist. As I said, a generic insult that sounds powerful in a teen ager mouth, but speaks very poorly of any educated grown up's political wisdom. 

[tassojunior]

28 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

With all respect, this is like discussing politics with a teen ager. According to your definition all regimes, even before the rising of capitalism, are fascist. As I said, a generic insult that sounds powerful in a teen ager mouth, but speaks very poorly of any educated grown up's political wisdom. 

With all due respect I'll stack my education and political experience up against yours anytime. Discussing with you is like talking to a teenage fangirl of a great k pop band called the Democrats. Read some Noam Chomsky and stop not caring about the extermination of millions of black and brown people by your heros as if it's just a minor point.  

[Latbear4blk]

1 hour ago, tassojunior said:

Read some Noam Chomsky and stop not caring about the extermination of millions of black and brown people by your heros as if it's just a minor point.  

Hey, I read Chomsky. I do not remember him saying that Obama was a fascist. I don't even remember him saying that Trump is. He does warn about the danger of devolving into fascism. He compares how there are institutional similarities between fascism and other capitalist regims. But he does not say USA isa fascist regime nowadays.

It is not only about reading, but about understanding what you read. Apparently, you seem to believe that because I am pointing that you are misusing and misunderstanding a basic political science concept, I am defending the murderers or ignoring their crimes. Perhaps you should read something easier than Chomsky.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Latbear4blk

[Latbear4blk]

 

[Lucky]

Okay, I am going to say this! @SexyAsianStud, your posts are often so well-written and intelligent. How about changing your name to smartsexyasianstud?

Edited June 27, 2020 by Lucky

[JKane]