Would you fucking do it?

[caeron]

 

Arrive at airport. Get in cab. Go to hotel. Stay in hotel. Go to meeting in cab. Go to airport in cab. Go home. 

Don't walk the streets, don't go to restaurants. Stay in.

Your worst risk in in the plane. 

Joking aside about the crowds of Asia, you can reduce your risk. 

The Flu killed 10,000 people last year. Do you not go out because of the flu? I'm sure a quick google would report many more than that killed in car accidents and pedestrians run over.

flu season deaths

Your life, your call.  But I reiterate the risks of this are far, far, far smaller than many other normal causes of death today. Maybe that will change in a few months, but I think chicken little is overblown at the moment.

 

[AdamSmith]

23 minutes ago, caeron said:

 

Arrive at airport. Get in cab. Go to hotel. Stay in hotel. Go to meeting in cab. Go to airport in cab. Go home. 

Don't walk the streets, don't go to restaurants. Stay in.

Your worst risk in in the plane. 

Well, exactly. The travel venues are where there is no way to ‘minimize personal exposure.’ And where you will be exposed to dozens if not hundreds who themselves have had similar exposure.

Unless you are Warren Buffett and can afford entirely private air and land transport.

[Lucky]

There is a vaccine for the flu.

25 minutes ago, caeron said:

The Flu killed 10,000 people last year. Do you not go out because of the flu? I'm sure a quick google would report many more than that killed in car accidents and pedestrians run over.

flu season deaths

Your life, your call.  But I reiterate the risks of this are far, far, far smaller than many other normal causes of death today. Maybe that will change in a few months, but I think chicken little is overblown at the moment.

 

 

[RA1]

25 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

Well, exactly. The travel venues are where there is no way to ‘minimize personal exposure.’ And where you will be exposed to dozens if not hundreds who themselves have had similar exposure.

Unless you are Warren Buffett and can afford entirely private air and land transport.

I have thought about this problem a lot and came to the conclusion that money will not insulate one from possible harm.  Here I specifically refer to physical bodily harm.  I concluded that anonymity was the best option.  Many wealthy and public figures do not have that option.  

In the case of biological infection I think it virtually impossible to avoid.  Remember salt shakers have more germs than a toilet seat.  Etc.

Even in the airplane that I was flying the pax were only safe while in flight.  Before and after the flight there was contact with all sorts on the ground.

Best regards,

RA1

Edited February 3, 2020 by RA1

[RockHardNYC]

15 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

I think in particular that the under-25-yo voters might just be the salvation in 2020.

Good luck with that. That age group seems far more preoccupied with their Instagram page. I'm putting more faith in our elders, who are dealing with the financial reality of health care costs and the cost of caring for aging parents and loved ones. The elders seem to be laser focused on the candidates this year.

2 hours ago, caeron said:

I think chicken little is overblown at the moment.

I think Anthony Fauci and the CDC would disagree with this.

2 hours ago, RA1 said:

money will not insulate one from possible harm

That's why gun sales are so high in America. Whatever threatens life, gun owners always look to their guns.

2 hours ago, RA1 said:

In the case of biological infection I think it virtually impossible to avoid.  Remember salt shakers have more germs than a toilet seat.  Etc.

Etc. = cash. Not to mention store cart handles.

I'm not an official, fanatic, germaphobe yet, but there is no question I take more precaution now than ever. In public, I rely heavily on my glove collection. For summer, I have a custom-made, paper-thin pair that most people don't notice when wearing long sleeved shirts. They are stretch cotton and dyed to match my skin. NYC is a cesspool, and sadly, there are way too many people who have no germ manners when in public. I also wash my hands regularly when there's a need to handle things from outside. When out, I keep my hands away from my face. It takes conscience discipline. I can't remember the last time I had a cold. Actually, someone sneezed on me in Paris, and I was locked in my hotel room for over a week. That was the last time I had a cold. Definitely try hard not to repeat that experience.

With talk of pandemic and over 17,000+ infected in China, I'm surprised anyone would be on the fence at this point. As of yesterday, the Department of State issued a "Do Not Travel" advisory for China. Is there a business meeting that is worth more importance than this threat?

"Do not travel to China due to the novel coronavirus first identified in Wuhan, China. On January 30, the World Health Organization (WHO) determined the rapidly spreading outbreak constitutes a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC). Travelers should be prepared for the possibility of travel restrictions with little or no advance notice. Most commercial air carriers have reduced or suspended routes to and from China."

Edited February 3, 2020 by RockHardNYC

[lookin]

3 hours ago, RA1 said:

  Remember salt shakers have more germs than a toilet seat.

Not to mention a fundamental lack of support.  

[AdamSmith]

7 hours ago, lookin said:

Not to mention a fundamental lack of support.  

 

 

That truss again.

[AdamSmith]

8 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

Good luck with that. That age group seems far more preoccupied with their Instagram page. I'm putting more faith in our elders, who are dealing with the financial reality of health care costs and the cost of caring for aging parents and loved ones. The elders seem to be laser focused on the candidates this year.

I think it goes both ways.

There is to be sure an enormous cohort who are just sitting around waiting -- for what? For life to start without any effort on their part? As you and I have both said, in somewhat different contexts, good luck with that.

But then there are the 200,000+ who marched to ask Please stop shooting us in our schools.

And other forms of informed activism. So, in the 2020 vote, we shall see what their impact is.

All your other thoughts above I agree with entirely.

[AdamSmith]

8 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

In public, I rely heavily on my glove collection.

In some article on Downton Abbey of all things, the writer observed that what is nowadays called 'Victorian stiffness of manners' in always wearing gloves, and not shaking hands or embracing, in fact arose from a well informed awareness of the risk of transmitting microscopic disease organisms. For which obviously there was no cure then.

By way of bacteria, which had been discovered and understood as a key source of disease by van Leeuwenhoek, inventor of the microscope, way back in the seventeenth century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonie_van_Leeuwenhoek

[Novarunner]

19 hours ago, caeron said:

 

Arrive at airport. Get in cab. Go to hotel. Stay in hotel. Go to meeting in cab. Go to airport in cab. Go home. 

Don't walk the streets, don't go to restaurants. Stay in.

Your worst risk in in the plane. 

Joking aside about the crowds of Asia, you can reduce your risk. 

The Flu killed 10,000 people last year. Do you not go out because of the flu? I'm sure a quick google would report many more than that killed in car accidents and pedestrians run over.

flu season deaths

Your life, your call.  But I reiterate the risks of this are far, far, far smaller than many other normal causes of death today. Maybe that will change in a few months, but I think chicken little is overblown at the moment.

 

Yes, this certainly is new and scary but it does appear that one has a greater chance of dying from the flu.  What I am waiting to find out is whether or not there are any long-term effects in those that have recovered from the illness.

[AdamSmith]

1 hour ago, Plusmodel3 said:

Yes, this certainly is new and scary but it does appear that one has a greater chance of dying from the flu.  What I am waiting to find out is whether or not there are any long-term effects in those that have recovered from the illness.

Based on past experience with like diseases, they will only have the happy outcome of having become immune to any further risk of infection.

[caeron]

 

To be clear, my chicken little comment was about the media and other hype around this. A muscular response to the threat is completely appropriate and is why any number of previous events like this didn't turn into something worse. I spent a career working with the media, and there is nothing they love better than breathlessly telling you about some new thing that might kill you. They love peddling fear because that shit sells.

Being aware of the threat is useful. Being paralyzed by fear of it, not so much.

[Lucky]

2 hours ago, Plusmodel3 said:

Yes, this certainly is new and scary but it does appear that one has a greater chance of dying from the flu.  What I am waiting to find out is whether or not there are any long-term effects in those that have recovered from the illness.

Congratulations on your first post! I am curious what prompted you to post now since you joined years ago and didn't post.  Hopefully you will continue!

[Novarunner]

14 minutes ago, Lucky said:

Congratulations on your first post! I am curious what prompted you to post now since you joined years ago and didn't post.  Hopefully you will continue!

Long time lurker... and somewhat frequently traveler to Thailand.  I am planning my first trip to South America now though.  I guess that’s why I decided to post now more than anything else.

[RA1]

2 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

Based on past experience with like diseases, they will only have the happy outcome of having become immune to any further risk of infection.

It appears that one does not become immune from such viral diseases as colds and the flu from previous infections.  Perhaps one might become immune from the exact strain of Corona one was infected with before.  Happily not immune from the Mexican beer. 

Best regards,

RA1

[RockHardNYC]

12 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

But then there are the 200,000+ who marched to ask Please stop shooting us in our schools.

God bless them and the donations I sent. My support is steadfast. Their talent to mobilize should be evident soon. Let's see if they are true activists who know the meaning of commitment.

1 hour ago, caeron said:

To be clear, my chicken little comment was about the media and other hype around this.

Media hype must always be taken with a grain of salt. Their motive is money, and their charge is providing click-bate. Savvy readers and researchers know this.

12 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

In some article on Downton Abbey of all things, the writer observed that what is nowadays called 'Victorian stiffness of manners' in always wearing gloves, and not shaking hands or embracing, in fact arose from a well informed awareness of the risk of transmitting microscopic disease organisms. For which obviously there was no cure then.

Modern medicine allows humans to let their guard down. It is human nature. Penicillin allowed for more anonymous blow jobs. Truvada opened the door to condom abandonment. With no cure in site for the common cold, I have discovered the best protection may be gloves. They won't protect you from the assholes who openly sneeze in your face, but they go a long way in protecting your bare hands from the things you touch without thinking. Most people don't think about how often they touch their face with bare hands. The things I witness on a crowded New York subway are downright amazing. Stupid amazing.

[AdamSmith]

44 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

Modern medicine allows humans to let their guard down. It is human nature. Penicillin allowed for more anonymous blow jobs. Truvada opened the door to condom abandonment.

Just as PrEP makes people think it’s safe to go bare, with no thought of thus contracting antibiotic-resistant gonorrhea or any of the other superbug STDs out there now — and still mutating. 

[Buddy2]

On 2/3/2020 at 10:12 AM, Lucky said:

There is a vaccine for the flu.

 

Excellent response.  My doctor frequently minds me. 

[AdamSmith]

11 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

Most people don't think about how often they touch their face with bare hands. The things I witness on a crowded New York subway are downright amazing. Stupid amazing.

My 91yo mother and I were seeing her PCP for some skin lesion problem (precursor to a bed sore, now resolved, thanks to my investigations, not her physicians), couple months ago.

Her doc put on strerile gloves, began reaching toward the wound site — then stopped and answered her cell phone then started to rebegin the exam. With the same glove.

We did not change doctors, but you can well imagine the things that came out of my mouth.

We will keep watch and see.

[RockHardNYC]

13 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

Her doc put on strerile gloves, began reaching toward the wound site — then stopped and answered her cell phone then started to rebegin the exam. With the same glove.

I'm not sure which is more outrageous. The doctor answering a cell phone during a patient's exam or her not taking the gloves off to answer her cell phone. I am sorry you and your mother had to endure this. Cell phone manners are sorely lacking in our culture. Too many people are lonely, insecure idiots, needing to be connected 24/7.

One thing I have to say about my experience with NYC healthcare, most professionals I have encountered behave like caring professionals. I know there are exceptions, but from my limited experience, my observations have shown promise.

Unfortunately, with health care the way it is in Capitalist America, God bless the patients who don't have loved ones looking after them. The need for a patient to be proactive these days is very real, and that's very difficult to do if you are sick and can't fight for yourself.

I call thoughtless behavior like this a devolution of professionalism and care. I like to blame Trump for it, but I fear his narcissism is no different than the next guy's.

[AdamSmith]

8 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

One thing I have to say about my experience with NYC healthcare, most professionals I have encountered behave like caring professionals. I know there are exceptions, but from my limited experience, my observations have shown promise.

Unfortunately, with health care the way it is in Capitalist America, God bless the patients who don't have loved ones looking after them. The need for a patient to be proactive these days is very real, and that's very difficult to do if you are sick and can't fight for yourself.

Your experience of high-quality care in NYC mirrors mine here in the N.C. Research Triangle area, with excellent med schools and teaching hospitals at both Duke U. and UNC Chapel Hill. And a rich density of excellent PCPs and specialists in the area.

My mother's PCP, notwithstanding that stupid slip -- occasioned, as you so rightly say, by our pathologically over-connected culture -- is possibly the best she has ever had. Very attentive, inquisitive, responsive, readily referring to specialists, even -- especially -- when 'It may be nothing serious, but we need the specialist to look into it and be sure.'

A 180deg change from the '80s and before, when Check 'em in and shove 'em out the door ASAP was the modus operandi of most general practitioners. Living in Boston in the '90s and the oughts, and being friends with a number of doctors, medical department directors, and faculty at the teaching hospitals, I watched with great satisfaction and relief the self-aware, well directed change toward patient-centered medicine.

Although at the same time, as you (and I above) observe, the patient, and the patient's closest support people, still have to be the lead advocate for the patient's interest.

[RockHardNYC]

39 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

excellent med schools and teaching hospitals

Those are key. You and your mother are in my thoughts.

[AdamSmith]

13 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

Those are key. You and your mother are in my thoughts.

Many thanks.

She is OK due to moisturizing CDB creme derived from hemp. Available OTC, thus something that big pharma + insurance rackets suppress knowledge of with all their might.

Asia abounds with natural-derived remedies that work. But our Western weaponization of medical economics...

[AdamSmith]

2 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

Many thanks.

She is OK due to moisturizing CDB creme

CBD, that is. 

This aged brain...