April Trip Suggestion - BA or SP

[Anthonyvan]

I am planning my trip to SA in April for about 10 days, currently debating between Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo. They seem to offer two distinctly different experiences, and I have a hard time deciding which one fits April better. 

I am a single gay Asian traveler looking to relax, experience new culture, and possibly fun with local guys, not necessarily professionals. It seems that non-professionals offer a more authentic and intimate time. Not sure if the sauna or sex trade is as big as in BA compared to SP. With the Argentine pesos so down the drain and reals not faring not much better, both options are so appealing!

What do you guys suggest?

[lopesv2]

Hmm... it depends.

I believe BA is more touristic than SP, although SP also has a good amount of attractions.

I think saunas like Lagoa and Fragata you will find only in Brazil.

 

At BA you will have to rely more on the websites.

Check soytuyo to have an idea about BA and Garotos and Garotolandia to know what to expect about SP:

https://www.soytuyo.com/

 

https://www.garotos.com.br/

https://garotolandia.com.br/

 

 

[brockmiller]

garotocomlocal.com.br

is also a good source

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by brockmiller

[Walker]

Why don't you go to both.  They are only a 2.5 hour flight apart.

[Latbear4blk]

16 hours ago, Anthonyvan said:

I am planning my trip to SA in April for about 10 days, currently debating between Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo. They seem to offer two distinctly different experiences, and I have a hard time deciding which one fits April better. 

I am a single gay Asian traveler looking to relax, experience new culture, and possibly fun with local guys, not necessarily professionals. It seems that non-professionals offer a more authentic and intimate time. Not sure if the sauna or sex trade is as big as in BA compared to SP. With the Argentine pesos so down the drain and reals not faring not much better, both options are so appealing!

What do you guys suggest?

It is a tough decision, I like @Walker's suggestion. If you have enough days, maybe you want to try both. I was in São Paulo back in the 80s, so my knowledge nowadays is through third parties. For Buenos Aires, perhaps you want to read this post in my blog with some resources. 

My understanding is that both cities are similarly attractive on culture and urban activities. If you are inclined towards theater and dance, perhaps Buenos Aires would score higher in your rubric. Similarly, São Paulo wins if you are fond of visual arts. 

Of course Argentina cannot compete with Brazilian saunas if you are mainly looking for sex. However, Buenos Aires sex scene has changed and depending on your age and fitness, you have very appealing options. Sex parties are not my thing, so I cannot really speak of them, but the most popular in the city meets twice a week and have a website.

If you are a foodie, I do not know SP nowadays, but BA is a very interesting option. Not only there is a very diverse variety of cuisines, but the scene is very much alive with fusion experimentation and creative chefs, and furthermore, with the exchange rate prices are considerably lower then in Brazil.

You have 10 days. If you can give 5 days to each city, I think you will have an amazing trip. Flying between SP and BA is easy, with abundant offer, and very cheap. 

[Anthonyvan]

9 hours ago, Walker said:

Why don't you go to both.  They are only a 2.5 hour flight apart.

I wish I could!

However, I find the excitement kinda wanes after more than 10 days, so now I am trying to take several mini vacations rather than a big jumbo one. Sorta like the diet that you eat several small meals rather than a big one if that makes any sense. 

[axiom2001]

20 hours ago, lopesv2 said:

Hmm... it depends.

I believe BA is more touristic than SP, although SP also has a good amount of attractions.

I think saunas like Lagoa and Fragata you will find only in Brazil.

 

At BA you will have to rely more on the websites.

Check soytuyo to have an idea about BA and Garotos and Garotolandia to know what to expect about SP:

https://www.soytuyo.com/

 

https://www.garotos.com.br/

https://garotolandia.com.br/

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2020 by axiom2001
DELETE

[Anthonyvan]

6 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

It is a tough decision, I like @Walker's suggestion. If you have enough days, maybe you want to try both. I was in São Paulo back in the 80s, so my knowledge nowadays is through third parties. For Buenos Aires, perhaps you want to read this post in my blog with some resources. 

My understanding is that both cities are similarly attractive on culture and urban activities. If you are inclined towards theater and dance, perhaps Buenos Aires would score higher in your rubric. Similarly, São Paulo wins if you are fond of visual arts. 

Of course Argentina cannot compete with Brazilian saunas if you are mainly looking for sex. However, Buenos Aires sex scene has changed and depending on your age and fitness, you have very appealing options. Sex parties are not my thing, so I cannot really speak of them, but the most popular in the city meets twice a week and have a website.

If you are a foodie, I do not know SP nowadays, but BA is a very interesting option. Not only there is a very diverse variety of cuisines, but the scene is very much alive with fusion experimentation and creative chefs, and furthermore, with the exchange rate prices are considerably lower then in Brazil.

You have 10 days. If you can give 5 days to each city, I think you will have an amazing trip. Flying between SP and BA is easy, with abundant offer, and very cheap. 

I actually read that post before posting here! A lot of useful information for sure. 

I am not actively looking for sex per se, or let's say sex is not my primary goal. If it happens, great. If not, I am fine with that. I think being a twenty something slender Asian guy, I will stand out in either city anyway (not sure if that's a plus or a minus). At least that's been my experience so far that very few Asian guys, locals or tourists, are in some South American countries, except probably Peru and Brazil where you can find quite some Chinese and Japanese. I think the best experiences for me are the ones that want to practice English and spend time touring the city with me (all expenses on me) and if there's chemistry, we have fun. Definitely not as efficient as paid sex, but it seems to work better for me. 

Exchange rate is extremely favourable in Argentina. Not sure how locals cope with such high inflation every year. 

Do you think 10 days are enough to split between these two mega cities?

[Latbear4blk]

2 hours ago, Anthonyvan said:

Do you think 10 days are enough to split between these two mega cities?

That is a question only you can answer. Our cycles when traveling are very personal. If sex is such a secondary interest, I would probably go to Buenos Aires. And you will have tons of good sex anyway, I just like Brazilians more.

By the way, depending on the area you are checking, you may be surprise in both cities, specially SP. I remember that back in the 80s their Japanese population was considerable, I understand is even more now. Buenos Aires has had a significant Chinese immigration the last three decades.

[Anthonyvan]

1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

That is a question only you can answer. Our cycles when traveling are very personal. If sex is such a secondary interest, I would probably go to Buenos Aires. And you will have tons of good sex anyway, I just like Brazilians more.

By the way, depending on the area you are checking, you may be surprise in both cities, specially SP. I remember that back in the 80s their Japanese population was considerable, I understand is even more now. Buenos Aires has had a significant Chinese immigration the last three decades.

That's why it's such a tough decision cuz I am a pretty slow traveler and would prefer to take my time. I wouldn't say sex is secondary, but it's definitely not make or break. Do Argentines and Brazilians look significantly different? Maybe Brazilians tend to be more mixed and diverse.

Brazil definitely has quite some Japanese population. At least in Bogota, I was definitely the extreme minority. 

[Latbear4blk]

Argentinians vs Brazilians is not a good comparison. Both are huge, diverse countries with noticeable ethnic variations within. BA vs SP makes more difference. I cannot tell, as I told you my last visit to SP was 30 years ago. BA has immensely changed in these three decades, it is now much more diverse than used to. I am sure other friends here can make a good and updated comparison.

 

[msclelovr]

My views are based on spending a lot of time during multiple visits to Buenos Aires. I’m a “foodie” and enjoy travelling, sometimes with a local boyfriend.

Do you speak Spanish well @Anthonyvan?

I think the sex scene is much less in Argentina. In general, young attractive Argentines seem to like to talk about sex whereas young Brazilians get right to it. Of course, paid companions work in both cities but it may be more difficult to access them in BA. Perhaps you can start by finding an attractive local who will act as your ‘tour guide’ and see how that progresses. 
 

As for food, I think BA is still mainly for carnivores. If you like steak, you will be happy. BA has very good ice-cream too. And get used to eating dinner late: 9pm is perhaps the earliest you can dine, unless you wish to eat with parents and babies. Also, I feel it’s important to dress smartly if you want to access the social scene in BA. A lot of importance is attached to dress as connoting socio-economic status.
 

And alas, I have to mention that racism can be an issue in BA. I’ve often heard casual racist remarks expressed openly, even by sophisticated well-educated people.

[Riobard]

The Air Canada fare is $325 cheaper to São Paulo return, but I suggest avoiding multi-city (in one, out the other) as it almost doubles the YYZ-GRU price, assuming most travellers are somewhat considering budget.

If you do both cities, a short haul flight SP to BA return makes up the long haul fare difference between YYZ-GRU and YYZ-EZE and allows some flexibility for a SP-BA or other SP-? side trip. I would suggest Iguassu Falls (2 nights) to break up a São Paulo trip, if Buenos Aires ends up ruled out, to get a break from the ‘concrete jungle’ urban sprawl.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Riobard
Spacing

[Latbear4blk]

18 minutes ago, Riobard said:

The Air Canada fare is $325 cheaper to São Paulo return, but I suggest avoiding multi-city (in one, out the other) as it almost doubles the YYZ-GRU price, assuming most travellers are somewhat considering budget.

If you do both cities, a short haul flight SP to BA return makes up the long haul fare difference between YYZ-GRU and YYZ-EZE and allows some flexibility for a SP-BA or other SP-? side trip. I would suggest Iguassu Falls (2 nights) to break up a São Paulo trip, if Buenos Aires ends up ruled out, to get a break from the ‘concrete jungle’ urban sprawl.

This is wise advice. Last July a multiple flight DC-Rio-BA-DC would have costed me more than twice than what I paid by flying to BA and, from there, purchasing a ticket BA-RJ-BA.

[Latbear4blk]

4 hours ago, msclelovr said:

And alas, I have to mention that racism can be an issue in BA. I’ve often heard casual racist remarks expressed openly, even by sophisticated well-educated people.

Yes! And they think they are not! Before I was banned for ever in the Argentinean forums I had gotten a suspension for getting in a heated argument with a local because of this!

[Anthonyvan]

9 hours ago, msclelovr said:

My views are based on spending a lot of time during multiple visits to Buenos Aires. I’m a “foodie” and enjoy travelling, sometimes with a local boyfriend.

Do you speak Spanish well @Anthonyvan?

I think the sex scene is much less in Argentina. In general, young attractive Argentines seem to like to talk about sex whereas young Brazilians get right to it. Of course, paid companions work in both cities but it may be more difficult to access them in BA. Perhaps you can start by finding an attractive local who will act as your ‘tour guide’ and see how that progresses. 
 

As for food, I think BA is still mainly for carnivores. If you like steak, you will be happy. BA has very good ice-cream too. And get used to eating dinner late: 9pm is perhaps the earliest you can dine, unless you wish to eat with parents and babies. Also, I feel it’s important to dress smartly if you want to access the social scene in BA. A lot of importance is attached to dress as connoting socio-economic status.
 

And alas, I have to mention that racism can be an issue in BA. I’ve often heard casual racist remarks expressed openly, even by sophisticated well-educated people.

A local boyfriend? How do you keep up with so many around the world? lol

I am learning Spanish and let's just say it's barely conversational. It also seems to be the consensus that the sex scene is less prominent in BA compared to SP or Rio. I am a carnivore when it comes to food and men, so I think I will be okay. But I have heard steak lovers getting tired/sick of steak after a week in BA, not sure if literally or metaphorically though. 

The schedule seems to be another deterrent as I eat dinner no later than 7pm, but it looks that Argentines can eat at 10 and party until the morning. I am one of those that has to be asleep before 12 so I don't feel like having a hangover the next day. Maybe Germany is a better suit in that regard. Latinos in general do put a lot of emphasis on presentation. Almost all the guys I have met in Colombia carry a little beauty bag with them with hairspray, cologne, and moisturizer in it. I travel for comfort and ease, so the whole presentation thing is kinda annoying. As for racism, the gay community has so much more crap than just the race, so I think I may be okay with that. 

[Anthonyvan]

5 hours ago, Riobard said:

The Air Canada fare is $325 cheaper to São Paulo return, but I suggest avoiding multi-city (in one, out the other) as it almost doubles the YYZ-GRU price, assuming most travellers are somewhat considering budget.

If you do both cities, a short haul flight SP to BA return makes up the long haul fare difference between YYZ-GRU and YYZ-EZE and allows some flexibility for a SP-BA or other SP-? side trip. I would suggest Iguassu Falls (2 nights) to break up a São Paulo trip, if Buenos Aires ends up ruled out, to get a break from the ‘concrete jungle’ urban sprawl.

I wish budget were not a factor! But even if it weren't, I would still like to travel smartly and save a few bucks if the overall outcomes are comparatively similar. It seems that flying to SP is a more economical and flexible solution indeed. 

[Anthonyvan]

5 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Yes! And they think they are not! Before I was banned for ever in the Argentinean forums I had gotten a suspension for getting in a heated argument with a local because of this!

I checked out some dating Youtube channels, and they say there's less political correctness in Argentina, and they regularly call people names like blankito, negro something, or small head, big ass. Maybe it's just their culture. Besides, it's not like there's no racism in Canada. 

[Latbear4blk]

1 hour ago, Anthonyvan said:

I checked out some dating Youtube channels, and they say there's less political correctness in Argentina, and they regularly call people names like blankito, negro something, or small head, big ass. Maybe it's just their culture. Besides, it's not like there's no racism in Canada. 

No. I am Argentine and know what I am talking about. 

It is correct, we are blunt and not fond of political correctness, and there are many expressions and situations that could be read as racists when they are not. However, there is a very strong racism, specially targeting mestizos and jews. Blacks is a special case. They used to be almost half of the population of Buenos Aires in the mid XIX century. They are almost extinct, and successfully erased from national history and identity. 

[msclelovr]

17 hours ago, Anthonyvan said:

I have heard steak lovers getting tired/sick of steak after a week in BA, not sure if literally

I’m a steak-lover but normally I eat a very varied diet.

True story: after 10 days of steak dinners in Buenos Aires, I was in a good restaurant and asked if there was anything other than steak; the waiter went away to check and on returning proudly announced that they had frozen lamb they could defrost for me; I ate steak again.

BA may be a more diverse city nowadays but vegetarians/vegans are badly catered for. The French and Italian restaurants do not compare well to those in big European and US cities.

 

17 hours ago, Anthonyvan said:

I eat dinner no later than 7pm, but it looks that Argentines can eat at 10.... I am one of those that has to be asleep before 12

No decent restaurants would be open at 7pm - the workers would be having their staff meal. You will therefore have to go to fast-food places to eat.

Yes, some locals do eat at 10pm. Fashionable, well-off people often eat later: midnight is a busy time for people to go to dinner on Friday/Saturday. Parents with babies might go to eat at 8pm. Weeknights, I used to reserve at a very good place at 9pm and arrive on time to drink an aperitif before choosing from the menu; the restaurant would fill from 9.30/10pm. 

Unless you stay awake after midnight, you will not experience the remarkable nightlife of BA. On my first visit, my first night of clubbing began with going for drinks at midnight (after dinner) and then dancing and finally getting home at 6.30am. Cabaret-bars may not even open until 2am.

Please be aware, if you make any arrangements to meet Argentines, that they have a chronic tendency to be late. This applies even to working guys.

True story: I had a terrific first date with a local red-haired guy and I invited him to dinner the next night; we arranged to meet at my place at 9pm before walking to dinner; he’d confirmed about 6pm but I set off alone at 9.30pm; he called me at the restaurant at 10.30pm to say he would join me in an hour! 

True story of an almost aborted first date: I met an astoundingly handsome young Army officer (on duty and quartered in the city) but he discreetly gave me his number; we arranged to meet in a cafe in Recoleta the next night at 8pm. I emphasized that punctuality was VERY important. At 8.30 I rang, and he was getting ready to see me. At 9pm I rang again: he was just leaving. I asked where he was and he turned out to be 60kms outside the city as he’d decided to visit friends before dinner. He told me not to worry as he’d be with me in an hour. I didn’t worry and went to dinner with another friend. The soldier rang me at 11pm to say he’d arrived and asked where I was!

[Latbear4blk]

2 hours ago, msclelovr said:

I’m a steak-lover but normally I eat a very varied diet.

True story: after 10 days of steak dinners in Buenos Aires, I was in a good restaurant and asked if there was anything other than steak; the waiter went away to check and on returning proudly announced that they had frozen lamb they could defrost for me; I ate steak again.

BA may be a more diverse city nowadays but vegetarians/vegans are badly catered for. The French and Italian restaurants do not compare well to those in big European and US cities.

Have you explored the offerings in all the different areas of Palermo? Your descriptions seem to be more suitable for the traditional touristic areas, like La Boca, San Telmo, Recoleta, Barrio Norte, and Puerto Madero. Tourists do not come to BA to eat salad, so the offering in those neighborhoods is tailored to the demand.

But the locals do not go so much to those restaurants. I think you should explore Palermo in your next visit.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Latbear4blk

[Anthonyvan]

3 hours ago, msclelovr said:

I’m a steak-lover but normally I eat a very varied diet.

True story: after 10 days of steak dinners in Buenos Aires, I was in a good restaurant and asked if there was anything other than steak; the waiter went away to check and on returning proudly announced that they had frozen lamb they could defrost for me; I ate steak again.

BA may be a more diverse city nowadays but vegetarians/vegans are badly catered for. The French and Italian restaurants do not compare well to those in big European and US cities.

 

No decent restaurants would be open at 7pm - the workers would be having their staff meal. You will therefore have to go to fast-food places to eat.

Yes, some locals do eat at 10pm. Fashionable, well-off people often eat later: midnight is a busy time for people to go to dinner on Friday/Saturday. Parents with babies might go to eat at 8pm. Weeknights, I used to reserve at a very good place at 9pm and arrive on time to drink an aperitif before choosing from the menu; the restaurant would fill from 9.30/10pm. 

Unless you stay awake after midnight, you will not experience the remarkable nightlife of BA. On my first visit, my first night of clubbing began with going for drinks at midnight (after dinner) and then dancing and finally getting home at 6.30am. Cabaret-bars may not even open until 2am.

Please be aware, if you make any arrangements to meet Argentines, that they have a chronic tendency to be late. This applies even to working guys.

True story: I had a terrific first date with a local red-haired guy and I invited him to dinner the next night; we arranged to meet at my place at 9pm before walking to dinner; he’d confirmed about 6pm but I set off alone at 9.30pm; he called me at the restaurant at 10.30pm to say he would join me in an hour! 

True story of an almost aborted first date: I met an astoundingly handsome young Army officer (on duty and quartered in the city) but he discreetly gave me his number; we arranged to meet in a cafe in Recoleta the next night at 8pm. I emphasized that punctuality was VERY important. At 8.30 I rang, and he was getting ready to see me. At 9pm I rang again: he was just leaving. I asked where he was and he turned out to be 60kms outside the city as he’d decided to visit friends before dinner. He told me not to worry as he’d be with me in an hour. I didn’t worry and went to dinner with another friend. The soldier rang me at 11pm to say he’d arrived and asked where I was!

That's why I am having second thought about going to BA as there's no way I can stay up that late and I must have my beauty sleep to not look horrible the next day. How could they do it like that? Don't they need to work in the morning the next day? Besides, isn't leaving so little time for the digestive system to work generally bad for your health and weight? 

As for the chronic tendency to be late, I have had my fair share of that in Colombia. Later I just realized that if I wanted to meet someone, I'd better set the time at least two hours ahead or find something to do in the neighbourhood. However, I did find that guys with oversea experience tended to be on time. One guy that did his Masters in the UK and the other that exchanged in Europe were fairly on time, but their vibes are quite different from local guys. 

[msclelovr]

On 1/5/2020 at 5:35 PM, Latbear4blk said:

I think you should explore Palermo in your next visit.

I appreciate your advice was well-meaning @Latbear4blk but I ate many, many  times in restaurants in Palermo (Palermo Soho, Palermo Hollywood, even Palermo Chico).
 

I always avoided places geared to tourists. I chose only good restaurants that were heavily patronized by locals and where reservations were essential. FWIW of the areas you mention, I never ate in La Boca, only 2x in Puerto Madero (in the Faena) and I also ate in places in or near Villa Freud, La Isla but mainly Recoleta.

On 1/5/2020 at 6:45 PM, Anthonyvan said:

How could they do it like that? Don't they need to work in the morning the next day? Besides, isn't leaving so little time for the digestive system to work generally bad for your health and weight? 

@Anthonyvan it’s simply a very different, and very interesting, culture. I coped with the late nights by always having a routine (sex late afternoon, a snack afterwards, followed by sleep for 1.5-2 hours then shower, shave and change clothes to go out by 9pm) for dinner.

True story: I took an old friend of my mother to the Opera. (My guess is that the friend was aged similarly to my mother, mid-80s). She said we’d eat dinner afterwards and booked a very good place (filled with hunting trophies) that was indeed full after the performance ended. She announced to me when we were seated (at nearly midnight) that “as it’s late” she would only eat 1 course; she proceeded to demolish a large steak and a side-dish of potatoes; she drank only a couple of glasses of red wine and refused coffee. I delivered her home just before 2am.

 

 

[Anthonyvan]

5 hours ago, msclelovr said:

I appreciate your advice was well-meaning @Latbear4blk but I ate many, many  times in restaurants in Palermo (Palermo Soho, Palermo Hollywood, even Palermo Chico).
 

I always avoided places geared to tourists. I chose only good restaurants that were heavily patronized by locals and where reservations were essential. FWIW of the areas you mention, I never ate in La Boca, only 2x in Puerto Madero (in the Faena) and I also ate in places in or near Villa Freud, La Isla but mainly Recoleta.

@Anthonyvan it’s simply a very different, and very interesting, culture. I coped with the late nights by always having a routine (sex late afternoon, a snack afterwards, followed by sleep for 1.5-2 hours then shower, shave and change clothes to go out by 9pm) for dinner.

True story: I took an old friend of my mother to the Opera. (My guess is that the friend was aged similarly to my mother, mid-80s). She said we’d eat dinner afterwards and booked a very good place (filled with hunting trophies) that was indeed full after the performance ended. She announced to me when we were seated (at nearly midnight) that “as it’s late” she would only eat 1 course; she proceeded to demolish a large steak and a side-dish of potatoes; she drank only a couple of glasses of red wine and refused coffee. I delivered her home just before 2am.

 

 

I have to say that their lifestyle seems insane. I can never eat a full meal after 10pm. Let alone after midnight. I abide by the philosophy that go to bed at least before 12 and get up at 730 or 8 in the morning. From the majority of the comments I have seen so far, it's more than likely that I will miss most of the fun in BA. Maybe I should do sightseeing in the early morning when everyone is still recovering and scheduling sex in the afternoon, so I can still keep my routine intact. lol

[bucky13]

While your "routine" sounds healthy, sane and admirable as you live your normal life at home, your rigidness when travelling is actually just being stubborn.  

Jetlag and timechange will already likely throw your bodyclock way off it's typical course so why not at least try to adjust to the local experience?  Take your 10 days and shift everything around just a little bit by NOT getting up so early, by NOT missing out on all the late night fun, by NOT refusing to eat at 11PM.  The body of a young, fit Asian dude can certainly adapt to local grooves, no?

"When in Rome...."  has had validity for centuries.  As does "Try it - You might like it."  

Edited January 7, 2020 by bucky13