Lagoa tonight- Stairs are murder!

[Gotti]

I haven't posted in a while, several years if anyone is counting, but decided that the new Lagoa opening is a too big event to pass, and I'm sorry to say it was quite a disappointment. Not that I expected to be anything close of its former self, it would be unrealistic, but it supposedly took months, if not years, looking for a place and they settle for something completely wrong. What sets Lagoa apart was always the ambience, boys come and go, there was good night's and bad nights but the vibe of the place was always there. The heart of the new place, the area where the stage and the main bar is located looks like a medium size office with low ceilings and claustrophobic atmsophere located at an intersection of stairs, filled with cheap hard plastic furniture. Unlike 117, Point or even Fragata, there is not an comfortable seat to relax and watch boys by, and worse, if you have an eye on a boy, which you probably do, he might easily have escaped to 2 flights up or down and soon you will realize you are doing stairs all the time. Both saunas are bad, the dry one looks like a closet, the sound system is horrible and will never be fixed, is not possible in an office space. The dressing area is tiny, if you wanna sit to tie your shoes you will have to wait for your turn. Not to be unfair and say everything was horrible, the rooms were adequate for a sauna and the showers were  good and new, the boys selection was very weak, but is certainly might happen anywhere. I still don't think it will fail cause at the moment there is no competition in Sao Paulo, which makes the right time to somebody start something new. The top boys, if they ever come around, could easily be persuaded to go elsewhere. The location I think is more Higienópolis than Consolação, probably on the intersection. I paid R$60,00 on a Sunday and was told it would be R$65,00 if charge.

[brockmiller]

Uh oh!!! Most of the people i have asked seem to like the new space, obviously not as much as the old Lagoa. hopefully it gets better or we get used to it.

[sanddunes]

Thanks for the report, it definitely is disappointing that the new Lagoa seems like a shadow of its former self.  On a good day, the old Lagoa was really something..

Kind of shocking Fragata is closing also.

[Riobard]

One of my favourite pastimes is positioning to see the working guys parade in at the entrance for their shift and/or watch them disrobe at their locker, flirting as needed from a short distance but not being too intrusive or in anyone’s way. If I think they will be snapped up quickly by a client who requires an hour of social time with maybe a programa in the offing I make sure to provide my number to help offset my FOMO hysteria. 

Comment on prospects for this setup if you can.

[Gotti]

No chance of doing it at the new Lagoa

[Riobard]

23 minutes ago, Gotti said:

No chance of doing it at the new Lagoa

Then I’ll be the guy lurking outside on the street. 

[Tomcal]

To put some perspective into starting up and running a sauna, i had figures from another sauna’s monthly costs. I adjusted the numbers to closer reflect what i think Lagoa’s are, but i tried to be conservative so the actual costs to operate Lagoa maybe 10-15% higher then the numbers i give but are a good approximation!  All costs shown are in Reias per Month!

Rent.               $16,000.

lights/elect.       4,000.

Salaries.             7,500.

Insurance.          2,500.

Police(payoff).     500.

Gas/phone.          300.

Kitchen sup.      1,000.

Shows.               3,200.

liquor/bar.          4,500

$46,700. total a month

if you take a entrance fee of $60.r you need 778 customers Per Month to break even and before you start earning your first dollar of profit!  

PS: i think Rudolfo’s cost maybe higher because i know that part of the $700,000.R+ it cost to remodel was in a loan from the bank and we all know how high interest is in Brazil!  Also they had a difficult time securing a loan because of the “type” of business they were going to be operating! they went to over a 1/2 dozen lenders before they found one that was willing to give them a loan!  Anyway just some food for thought!

Edited November 25, 2019 by tomcal

[Gotti]

He better figure out how to recover this considerable investment among So Paulo customers and I hope is feasible cause most tourists, like myself, that included Sao Paulo in their intinerary solely because of Lagoa, Will be changing gears and staying most of the time in Rio, if going to Sao Paulo at all, which I hate to see it happen cause I love the city.

[sydneyboy1]

1 hour ago, Gotti said:

He better figure out how to recover this considerable investment among So Paulo customers and I hope is feasible cause most tourists, like myself, that included Sao Paulo in their intinerary solely because of Lagoa, Will be changing gears and staying most of the time in Rio, if going to Sao Paulo at all, which I hate to see it happen cause I love the city.

I echo these sentiments. The New York Times travel writer once described São Paulo as the ugliest and most dangerous city your ever likely to love. Having been there 9 times I think I know what he means.

[Tomcal]

i have been going to Brazil 4 times a year(sometimes 5)since 2001. The first 10 or 11 years i spent my time in Rio and Porto Alegre and would just go to SP(Lagoa)on my last day there to fly back to the states. SP was just too big, like 10 NYC’s put together! So i avoided it as i was having a lot of fun in Rio and Porto Alegre and they were both easier cities to get around in then SP.

about 6 or 7 years ago i started going to SP for my last weekend of my trips from Friday to Sunday night or Monday night!  i have gotten to like SP more and more and my last 4 trips i stayed each visit 4 days there. I have really been having fun there and will probably spend closer to 1/2 my time there in the future!  btw i will have a report on Bar Fama in SP soon just haven’t gotten around to it yet, but if you like sleazier surroundings and $40.R sex you will enjoy yourself! 

[Tomcal]

2 hours ago, Gotti said:

He better figure out how to recover this considerable investment among So Paulo customers and I hope is feasible cause most tourists, like myself, that included Sao Paulo in their intinerary solely because of Lagoa, Will be changing gears and staying most of the time in Rio, if going to Sao Paulo at all, which I hate to see it happen cause I love the city.

Gotti i have been told numerous times by the various sauna owners that foreigners make up less then 2% of their revenues, they depend on locals to operate profitably! Which is why our/my suggestions over the years have fallen on deaf ears! lol They have said what is important to us or what we are used to in venues in the states is totally different then what locals in Brazil expect! and i can honestly say none of my suggestions were ever taken seriously! ...lol they probably wouldn’t have made a difference anyway, but i tried!

[pauleiro]

4 hours ago, Tomcal said:

$46,700. total a month

if you take a entrance fee of $60.r you need 778 customers Per Month to break even and before you start earning your first dollar of profit!  

It seems to be indeed a rather high number of customers but you should consider that entrance is only half of the revenue (the rest being room renting, drinks, food) and that boys also oay entrance.

Revenues from boys entrance with conservative figures : 

25 boys during week end (2 days) + 10 boys 4 days a week = 360 boy x day. Entrance @ 20 R$. 7200 R$.

Revenue needed from customers : aro. 40000 R$.

With 120 R$ of average expense by customer : 333 customers needed per month.

With 3 times more customers during week ends than during 4 week days, number of customers needed per week day is 8 and 25 per week end day. 

Not such a bad business model ! 

[Gotti]

Hi Tomcal, I've been to Bar Fama and sleaze is an understatement, just don't go by yourself. Regarding Lagoa, as I said before, I don't think it will fail, since there is no competition but I think Rudolf (who I never met) will be seeing less of us from the Boytoy community. If we don't make a difference, good for him!

[Riobard]

About 10 minutes of stage-show vid on FB suggests somewhat claustrophobic, but seemingly not dissimilar from NMM and defunct Rio Manhattan (Beira Mar site).

The performers seemed oddly amputated, in a minimalist space, from onlookers but anonymity  of audience is key when recording.

Rockettes-style synch kicks to be avoided for ceiling intactness. 

[Gotti]

The stage of New Meio Mundo was like Radio City Music Hall if compared with the current Lagoa stage. The night I was there a go go stepped on a spotlight (there were only 2) due to total lack of space, still better than the sound system that has only treble, making you wanna run to the outside if there was an outside!

[Riobard]

2% revenues ...
Speaking for myself, bottom 2% re: end use. 

[pauleiro]

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

2% revenues ...
Speaking for myself, bottom 2% re: end use. 

I do not believe the 2% revenues for Rio. If there are 50 customers 1 foreigner already corresponds to 2 % numberwise and I think that foreigners spend more than locals. Whenever I go to Sauna in Rio,  I always meet or hear foreigners.  This time, there are at least 6 foreigners whom I know who are in Rio saunas everyday.

This 2% might be true in Porto Alegre or maybe in Sao Paulo where there are less foreigners it seems to me

 

[Riobard]

I would be more inclined to extrapolate from overall tourism contribution to GDP ... closer to 10%.

[Tomcal]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:18 PM, pauleiro said:

evenues from boys entrance with conservative figures : 

25 boys during week end (2 days) + 10 boys 4 days a week = 360 boy x day. Entrance @ 20 R$. 7200 R$.

Revenue needed from customers : aro. 40000 R$.

With 120 R$ of average expense by customer : 333 customers needed per month.

Paulerio, i don’t think your numbers are conservative! Remember full admission is not charged on the “busy nights” with the boys at 1/2 price! and rooms gratis!  i won’t dispute your overall numbers as you may be better informed then me on this as my numbers came from 2 sauna owners who may have been exaggerating whereas your numbers may come from better sources! but...if it was as lucrative as you suggest we wouldn’t have 2 saunas fighting for existence in São Paulo a metro area of over 23 million people and looking like 2 surviving saunas in Rio!  i hope i am wrong! Supposedly Monique has unofficially asked about selling 117 but said she wanted  $ 3million so i don’t think she was serious!

[lopesv2]

In a pure business point of view I believe the golden age of saunas are gone.

we have more gay friendly entertainment spaces now than 20 years ago, Garotos are using internet and the apps are offering tons of free/easy sex.

It is a trick business as tomcal demonstrated, I admire Rodolfo for his entrepreneurship. I would not invest on it.

[Bucknaway1614502762]

A sauna in Brazil is one stop shopping.  An app can't give you the convenience and spectacle that a sauna offers.  

If I had one wish, it would be to move the Babylon sauna in Bangkok to Rio and fill it with GP's.  Now that would be a hell of a place...

Edited November 27, 2019 by Bucknaway

[lopesv2]

It is a different experience I agree. The same away it is different to buy on Amazon or on Barnes and Noble. 

 

I want to go to BKK

[PopeFrancis]

It's not like me to be in the right place at the right time... but I was at Novo Lagoa on Saturday night!!!

 

The entrance takes you down a ramp to the basement.  There's an attempt to decorate using blown up colourful portraits of men.

The reception is smart and you're directed to a tiny blue and green locker-ed changing room to the side.  It is smaller than Fragata or BH's Olimpio.

Then up a flight of stairs to the main bar.  Again everything is smaller - the bar, a glass walled shower, the stage.  The seating area had 12 tables, each with 4 chairs around... and this filled the room.  Later on in the evening the tables were all pulled closer to the stage, to allow some sort of flow around the back of the bar.

At the opposite end of this room is a door to a wide stone spiral staircase... which either takes you up to 2 floors of rooms or down another ramp back to the basement.

On the two floors above there are a series of small interlinking rooms, each containing a tv... or a jacuzzi... or a smoking area.

There are less bedrooms and this resulted in a waiting time of about 15 minutes to get a room (perhaps not surprising on an opening weekend)

 

On the plus side:

- the bedrooms are (at least for now) clean and modern... I would even consider staying in some of the high end suites!

- the toilet cubicles are really well done - like something you'd find in a hotel - some had showers in

- everything seems new

- remember that annoying "trendy clothes shop" that used to inhabit the boys changing room?... well it's now in a separate little room off the spiral staircase... allowing everyone to just walk past and ignore it without it bothering them

 

On the negative side:

- the main thing that struck me was that Terrazzo stone spiral staircase and wondering who would be the first flip-flop person to trip and split their head open - an accident waiting to happen

- its all very clinical - the reception reminded me of a doctors reception, the upstairs rooms seem like waiting rooms

- everything is smaller... there's just not enough room to cruise about... not enough flow... on the Saturday there wasn't really enough room for more than 4 or 5 boys to stand by the door of the bar

- the bedrooms are all white and given the low ceilings throughout and the lighting option being either 4 recessed ceiling lights on or 4 recessed ceiling lights off - you have a choice of sex under a dazzling searchlight or sex in total darkness.

- not all bedrooms have air conditioning

 

But I imagine as time goes on... the rooms will (need to) develop some character... the boys will (have to) take over part of the bar to be seen... dimmer switches will be discovered

And someone will split their head open on the stairs.

[sydneyboy1]

Any comments on the number and standard of the boys? Old faces (nothing wrong with that!) and/or newbies? 

[Riobard]

Is there a small exercise room or was the gym equipment left behind?