a visit to the new Lagoa

[likeohmygod]

On 12/6/2019 at 10:44 PM, Latbear4blk said:

... he assesses that he cannot longer accommodate his previous demand. It makes sense to me to cut the crowd by targeting a niche. We may not like the new profile, but I think the strategy may work very well.

Oh no! Don't say that...you might be charged for discrimination here on the forum . The "over 30y & bad looking" union is going to sue you.

Some people are treating Rodolfo as a complete idiot...without doing a prior check of the current and past situation. The fact that he's putting some restrictions (which have always existed in saunas thanks to god, also in Junior's 202 and Monique's 117), only proves that he cares about his business and that he strongly believes that the demand is going to that way. So no he's not running his personal playground, and no he's not hosting your personal one. If I cannot accomodate the demand of everyone, I prefer to fully accomodate the one from the majority of the users, keeping the quailty as high as possible. He's not forcing you to visit the new sauna, and he's not expecting the same amount of customers since the place is considerable smaller.

Despite all of the huge architectural problems the new building has (which cannot be solved, without moving again to another place), the new Lagoa is working great after only a few days from the inauguration.

And btw those limits are not strict.

Edited December 10, 2019 by likeohmygod

[SolaceSoul]

9 hours ago, likeohmygod said:

The fact that he's putting some restrictions (which have always existed in saunas thanks to god, also in Junior's 202 and Monique's 117), only proves that he cares about his business and that he strongly believes that the demand is going to that way. So no he's not running his personal playground, and no he's not hosting your personal one. If I cannot accomodate the demand of everyone, I prefer to fully accomodate the one from the majority of the users, keeping the quailty as high as possible.

Your assumption that the kinds of garotos that you like are the same type that most well-paying clients visit saunas to spend money on is simply just wildly off the mark. Just as Twitter activity is not very  reflective of real life, the avid BoyToy posters who gush over barely legal skinny twinks and think that anything that doesn’t resemble that look is “old” or “bad looking” are also NOT reflective of the bread and butter of the most successful saunas in existence.

117 is now the premier pay sauna in Brazil because it steadily and reliably features masculine, well-built MEN — not average, run of the mill Joes off the street or twinkie boys that look barely legal — the type honestly, you can find at any bar bar in Anytown, North America on a Friday night. It’s known for garotos that are masculine, well built, nicely endowed, and look like they came off the latest Calvin Klein ad — and those are always the busiest garotos in the sauna. On any given day, the ones that you describe as your preferred type are much less likely to be booked, with their backs to the wall trolling for clients (and they’re also, by no coincidence, less expensive). 

Lagoa made its name the very same way, if not more so than 117 did.

Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, the very same.

Point 202 in its most heyday and the old Rogers — the very same.

It’s by no coincidence that the saunas that feature the barely legal, average Joes with common, regular builds and features are also the saunas that are no longer in business, or are on their last leg.

On the hétero side, Centaurus is known worldwide for its most beautiful women with outstanding bodies. Straight men flock there, not to see the seemingly physically unattainable, not to see the kind of little girl that they can see around the block.

And judging a success by its first few days of business would be unwise. Not to suggest that Lagoa will be closing shop sometime soon like another twink farm / average boy sauna, Meio Mundo did, and soon to be Fragata will — because right now, Lagoa is the only game in town. But there are arguably more well-paying clients that will dislike the restrictions being placed than ones like you that consider them just dandy for your tastes. 

 

[Latbear4blk]

42 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

Your assumption that the kinds of garotos that you like are the same type that most well-paying clients visit saunas to spend money on is simply just wildly off the mark. Just as Twitter activity is not very  reflective of real life, the avid BoyToy posters who gush over barely legal skinny twinks and think that anything that doesn’t resemble that look is “old” or “bad looking” are also NOT reflective of the bread and butter of the most successful saunas in existence.

117 is now the premier pay sauna in Brazil because it steadily and reliably features masculine, well-built MEN — not average, run of the mill Joes off the street or twinkie boys that look barely legal — the type honestly, you can find at any bar bar in Anytown, North America on a Friday night. It’s known for garotos that are masculine, well built, nicely endowed, and look like they came off the latest Calvin Klein ad — and those are always the busiest garotos in the sauna. On any given day, the ones that you describe as your preferred type are much less likely to be booked, with their backs to the wall trolling for clients (and they’re also, by no coincidence, less expensive). 

Lagoa made its name the very same way, if not more so than 117 did.

Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, the very same.

Point 202 in its most heyday and the old Rogers — the very same.

It’s by no coincidence that the saunas that feature the barely legal, average Joes with common, regular builds and features are also the saunas that are no longer in business, or are on their last leg.

On the hétero side, Centaurus is known worldwide for its most beautiful women with outstanding bodies. Straight men flock there, not to see the seemingly physically unattainable, not to see the kind of little girl that they can see around the block.

And judging a success by its first few days of business would be unwise. Not to suggest that Lagoa will be closing shop sometime soon like another twink farm / average boy sauna, Meio Mundo did, and soon to be Fragata will — because right now, Lagoa is the only game in town. But there are arguably more well-paying clients that will dislike the restrictions being placed than ones like you that consider them just dandy for your tastes. 

 

So placing a 30 y.o.  limit to sauna GPs means being focused on barely legal boys? I guess legal age is slightly higher in Brazil.

I am sure you are not making any assumptions, you are obviously very well provided with scientific market research. Although you seem to believe that the owner of what you identify as a successful bussiness does not know what he is doing. I am sure this is not an assumption,  your faith in the new business model failure must be coming from Divine Revelation.

 

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

So placing a 30 y.o.  limit to sauna GPs means being focused on barely legal boys? I guess legal age is slightly higher in Brazil.

The comment about being barely legal boys was targeted toward the posters here who have that predilection (what could be a posting majority at the board, but is not necessarily even close to a majority of paying sauna clients) — not the age restriction. Try to keep up. 

[Marcorjbr]

Its really quite simple.... if you don't like the sauna or the available boys... DON'T GO.

Better yet.... why not invest your own time and money to start your own boy / man sauna and make your own rules.

 

Edited December 10, 2019 by Marcorjbr

[Bucknaway1614502762]

I'm here waiting for the fist fight to happen....

[SolaceSoul]

10 hours ago, Marcorjbr said:

Its really quite simple.... if you don't like the sauna or the available boys... DON'T GO.

Yes. A simple rule of commerce which seems to have already put all of the twink- / “boy-next-door”- oriented saunas out of business in Brazil!

[Tomcal]

8 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

Yes. A simple rule of commerce which seems to have already put all of the twink- / “boy-next-door”- oriented saunas out of business in Brazil!

Hate to disagree with you but the lack of customers was not the reason Meo Mundo became a shell of its former self! The two owners Jorge and Acir were very successful from 2006 to 2018, then the same thing happened to them that has happened to the others...they didn’t own the building and worse yet their space they occupied was owned by 3 separate landlords! and the one who owned the space from the entryway to the lockers and the bar showroom wanted a 4 X rent increase! that was the reason for its demise! not lack of clients! They were pulling in between $15,000.R to $20,000.R a month in profit and foolishly IMHO did not save for the inevitable!

i make no assumptions on what. body type or age is preferred by the clients which is why you see a variety of types at all saunas but with a predominance of a certain types at each sauna!(for the record i have been dating a 37 yr old muscle guy for the past 3 years)but have gone with every type of guy over the years

 

[likeohmygod]

Bucknaway, no fights for me...just talking. I think that Solace can have his own ideas, as I can have mine...opposite in this case. Just typing our thoughts.

Just one clarification...I'm usually not a twink-like guys fan, despite I have variable tastes.

Just some words about what tomcal said, before arriving to Rodolfo: saunas face bankruptcy only for 2 reasons:

1. Forced and delaied relocation (what tomcal said (like MM))
2. Naive management (like Lion's)

1- Relocation is dangerous mostly because you have to face the risk of losing customers and boys because they don't like the new location, or because it's in a neighborhood with an increased risk of exposure against people you don't want to know what you're doing, and losing customers because the new place cannot accomodate the same amount of workers or customers as the previous one did. The more time you're spending without working, the more customers you're going to lose. Once you've lost your sauna's customers, it's nearly impossible to get them back inside a new location, because they've already been adsorbed by the remaining ones. This is MM's and MH's (which in the end it was meant to be MM's spinoff) case.

2 - Lion's is not bankrupt (might be pretty close), but it opened in the worst market conditions they could have chosen to face. The 2 major competitors, 117 and 202, are living their most profitable time in Rio since olympics. Getting inside the game with a huge investment, while even more manageable activities like MH have failed, is a very risky choice IMHO.

This isn't Lagoa's case since the switch has been done in "realtime". So Rodolfo who's not naive, since he's been running the business for decades, knows that he cannot host the same volume of visitors inside the new location. At the same time he knows that the sauna "lives" in SP, Brazil's fashion capital and he knows that there's a predomint type of boys that most of customers currenly like. Young guys with toned to muscular bodies and nice faces, not too feminine, judging by the size of their regular customers list, and by the size of the queues they cause in the receptions, is the way to go. Keep in mind that a small share of customers has already gone, since some were going to the old Lagoa just to have drink with their friends.

Speaking of 117, there's always been a list of guys who didn't meet the standards to work in there...it's totally normal. The last times i went (like 5 times in the last 30 days), i think that the average age didn't even get close to 26/27yo (which a kinda a bit lower than the old Lagoa). There was a 10/15% of nextdoor/twinky type of boys, about a 80% of guys with a swimmer/gym type of body, and the remaining % of boys with a competition like body. This ratio has changed during the times. And Monique, who's kind of a genius in this market and will never face the risk of a forced relocation since she owns the building, knows that by the time goes, the population of the saunas has to adapt to the customer's demand and to the internet's competition.

So if Rodolfo is trying to import the 117's model which worked for 20 years in Rio (and I think that this is what he's going to do), to keep the highest standard among the most demanded boys to cut the potential losses caused by guys who work in there but that attract only the 30% of the customers instead of the 80% (i.e.), I don't see anything of strange.

Probably this choice is also supported by statistics...do you think that the reception doesn't know how many customers "Mr. x" averages each month? Or how many garotos my VIP customers "Mr. Y" averages each day? In the end it's like running a supermarket where every product has nearly the same price...if you're downsizing from a 6000m^2 surface to a 4000 one, you'll have to pull from the display the products which you know you're selling less. You'll lose customers...some will move to a local competitor (if exists) which holds those products, some will just buy it on Amazon...Internet. Still better than losing those who buy the best selling ones, just beacuse they're over.

Edited December 12, 2019 by likeohmygod

[Marcorjbr]

Tomcal and likeohmygod are on target about the sauna business.  I would only add that the sauna boy business is changing.  Imho... its a dying  business model like bookstores and paid porn. 

Lagoa was already losing customers and boys over the last serveral years and was far too large of space for the current market.

Technology is changing the rent boy business...  I believe that we are the last generation of the saunas as we know them.  Just look at the straight sauna biz... they are closing the doors...

[SolaceSoul]

2 hours ago, Marcorjbr said:

Technology is changing the rent boy business...  I believe that we are the last generation of the saunas as we know them.  Just look at the straight sauna biz... they are closing the doors...

As I already mentioned above, Centaurus, which is the premier heterosexual sauna (whorehouse) for men in Rio, like it’s gay men counterpart 117 (and what used to be its gay men counterpart Lagoa), is doing gangbusters business and is bursting at the seams. The reason is that Centaurus stays to its brand of exclusivity: the women who work there are beyond beautiful, and are seemingly physically unattainable in both body and face. Men don’t swarm there in droves just to fuck average looking girls — they expect the cream of the crop. The straight “saunas” that are closing shop feature the average girls.

[SolaceSoul]

20 hours ago, Tomcal said:

Hate to disagree with you but the lack of customers was not the reason Meo Mundo became a shell of its former self! The two owners Jorge and Acir were very successful from 2006 to 2018, then the same thing happened to them that has happened to the others...they didn’t own the building and worse yet their space they occupied was owned by 3 separate landlords! and the one who owned the space from the entryway to the lockers and the bar showroom wanted a 4 X rent increase! that was the reason for its demise! not lack of clients! They were pulling in between $15,000.R to $20,000.R a month in profit and foolishly IMHO did not save for the inevitable!

i make no assumptions on what. body type or age is preferred by the clients which is why you see a variety of types at all saunas but with a predominance of a certain types at each sauna!(for the record i have been dating a 37 yr old muscle guy for the past 3 years)but have gone with every type of guy over the years

 

Acyr has been involved in three recently failed or failing saunas. No matter the reason, MM has shuttered. Manhattan Rios was a complete bomb. Lions is on life support. You may think he’s a great guy to hang out with, but I would take his advice on a sauna business about as quickly as I’d trust Trump to run a casino.

[Gotti]

Not forgetting that they leased Point 202 for around a year and manage it to nearly put it out of business, thankfully Junior returned and not only saved it but transformed it in the sauna with the best facility in Brazil, at least in the Rio/SP region. I was there last week and had a blast. He always dreamed in a disco-sauna and little by little finally achieve it. Brilliantly! Take that Rudolf! Take that Acyr and Jorge! By the way, never met any of these people.

[SolaceSoul]

47 minutes ago, Gotti said:

Not forgetting that they leased Point 202 for around a year and manage it to nearly put it out of business, thankfully Junior returned and not only saved it but transformed it in the sauna with the best facility in Brazil, at least in the Rio/SP region. I was there last week and had a blast. He always dreamed in a disco-sauna and little by little finally achieve it. Brilliantly! Take that Rudolf! Take that Acyr and Jorge! By the way, never met any of these people.

I wouldn’t call Point 202 the best even in Rio, but it’s running a good second. And IMO, better than the new Lagoa. Junior does deserve his props.

[Gotti]

As specified, I meant best facility, not the best sauna overall, in a good night 117 still have a greater selection of boys but the music, the lights, the screens makes Point a more pleasant experience. Became a fun place, the kind that you like to stick around after you are done with your business, unlike 117 that you just want get the f*** out as soon as you are done. Even the music volume that used to be unbearable got tone down and became enjoyable (they still owe us a better DJ). Lagoa also used to be cool (in a different way) untill 2 weeks ago, now is the pits!

[SolaceSoul]

25 minutes ago, Gotti said:

As specified, I meant best facility, not the best sauna overall, in a good night 117 still have a greater selection of boys but the music, the lights, the screens makes Point a more pleasant experience. Became a fun place, the kind that you like to stick around after you are done with your business, unlike 117 that you just want get the f*** out as soon as you are done. Even the music volume that used to be unbearable got tone down and became enjoyable (they still owe us a better DJ). Lagoa also used to be cool (in a different way) untill 2 weeks ago, now is the pits!

I could do without the club music and diva torch songs. As talented as she was, I think I have heard enough of Whitney Houston’s Greatest Hits at Point 202 to last me three lifetimes. I prefer the ambience and different vibes that I can get in various rooms and corners at 117 — where the drag and diva music doesn’t follow you everywhere.

And if the garotos are the hottest, the sauna always wins. 

[Marcorjbr]

Might be worth noting that the latest attempts by Acir (all 3) were previously hetro saunas / termas.   Copacabana, centro and zona norte are littered with closed down hetro saunas probably mostly due to the poor economy since 2013 and the on line availability of garotas.... As for Jr and 202, I think he has certainly impoved the space over the past years.  He has matured and seems to have learned... finally... how to run a sucessful business.  117 has always been well run.

I arrived in SP yesterday for a few days of business and will check out the new lagoa space.   I am curious to see what everyone is whining about.....

[SolaceSoul]

I was in São Paulo on business, so to see for myself, I went to the new Espaço Lagoa on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday. Here are my personal results and observations: 

Lagoa on Wednesday:

I arrived at Lagoa about 5:45pm.  It was raining very badly. The first thing I noticed was that the place looks like every other smaller sauna now.  — nothing special or majestic like the previous Lagoa, which was like walking into a dreamscape. The long tunnel ramp down to the entrance is very strange, indeed. The owner really should find a better use of that space. Also, the stairwells on each side, particularly the one that is more like a down ramp, do seem very clumsy as take quite a bit of getting used to. The other stairway, the normal one, seemed fine to me, honestly. It really was no worse than the ones at 117 or 202. But those ramp stairs are just really strange and clumsy — and parts are dangerous because there is no reflective or bright lighting on the dark stairs to let a user know where the stairs end and where the ramp begins. I suppose the ramps are one way to make the sauna “wheelchair accessible” — but not if there is a strange combination of stairs and ramp.

As to the rest of the space, it seems even smaller than Point 202. I would say it is even smaller than Sauna Fox in Salvador. I think Rodolfo did as well as he could with the space that he was provided here — but the problem is that this is not a very good space for a sauna in comparison to the previous one. That’s a tall order, admittedly, as the previous space was phenomenal.

The main social space — with the bar and the tables and the stage — also overlook the showers. The showers are nice and new — but is a much smaller space now (the sauna / jacuzzi doors are packed into this space and it is hard to navigate when someone else is showering). But I can see here how Rodolfo tried his level best to recreate the same experience from the original Lagoa, but in a much smaller space. 

The bar area is very reminiscent of the one at 202, or the indoor one at 117 — a cramped space but it is functional.  The seating area seemed fine to me. Honestly, I was there for several hours and I never saw — as was earlier reported —  how it was so crowded that people could not move or navigate around the area. It never once became that crowded.  I always had a table to myself and there were always seats at the bar. 

Also, and this is even more important, the ratio of garotos to clients was WAY too small! I estimate that there was about 1 garoto for every 1 client there! That is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion! There should be WAY more garotos than clients. For the best “fantasy” experience, there should be about 3 or 4 garotos for every client. Clients want to feel like they can have their pick of garotos — not the other way around!

That was about the quantity. Now, for the quality. Or rather, the lack thereof!

On Wednesday, the quality of garotos was VERY disappointing. In the past, even as recent as last November, I could go to the old Lagoa, and expect to see close to a DOZEN garotos who were fantasy types for me. On its WORST days, I would see 2-3 garotos at the old Lagoa that I would like to have a programa with.  I never had to wait hours for ONE garoto to arrive that I would love to spend time with. Well, Wednesday night, there were ZERO (until the very end... about him later). The garotos there Wednesday night were of smaller, slender, mostly average builds, and the one or two who did have defined or muscular type builds were not even in the same league as what you could easily find at 117 (or even 202) on their best nights lately. 

So, I realize this is only judging from one night’s visit, but the quality of garotos at the new Lagoa has definitely diminished from before. I do understand that the old Lagoa had already been declining in its garoto quality from its previous heyday, so perhaps this is just a logical extension. 

But I do not buy Rodolfo’s lame excuse about trying to reduce overcrowding by limiting it to certain kinds of garotos. Because (1) there should always be at least 3 times as many working boys as there are clients, and Wednesday night, the ratio was close to 1:1, and (2) the sauna was not so crowded that people could not move or navigate through. The garotos at a high-end sauna like Lagoa or 117 should ALWAYS look better than the garotos at Fragata, Bar Fama or off the street or Grindr — and Wednesday night, a previous high point night for Lagoa, for the most part, they did not.

Now, after having a caipirinha and being seated at a prominent table for quite some time (maybe about an hour or so), I was approached by about 4 boys during that time. Two were cute but not my type — slender, “fit” builds, more like aspiring soccer, swimmer or tennis player builds (what I call typical “disco bodies”). I had brief conversations with them to be polite, but I wasn’t going to spend my money on any of them.

During these conversations, I mentioned to each garoto that I preferred the old Lagoa to this one, and that I was not happy with the choices in garotos at this one. They all responded to me that every client that they talk to agrees with me, that everyone liked the old sauna better. One garoto informed me that most or all of these garotos are “new meat” and they did not work at the old sauna. I can verify that I did not see one garoto on Wednesday night that I recognized from the old Lagoa. I was very disappointed, because there were some old garoto faces and bodies that I wanted to see. One garoto even agreed with me that the boys there at the new Lagoa now look the same as they do at Fragata! So, if you like the type at Fragata and think that’s your fantasy type or you’d be happy paying for that, then you will also like this new version of Lagoa on a Wednesday night. Maybe you do, and that’s fine for you. I just happen not to — AT ALL. 

During the time I was speaking to one garoto at my table, another garoto approached me. He was a garoto from Salvador that I met a few years ago when I was there. At that point of my visit there, he was the best-looking, most appealing one at Lagoa, but as he was never even one of my top favorites in Salvador — he was just “meh!” to me — that did not bode very well for this visit.

I was just getting ready to leave Lagoa out of pure boredom and frustration, when I saw a garoto in a towel that I had never seen before who was like a Brazilian Greek God walk through the bar. I immediately got up and followed him to the banheiro. We talked and agreed to have a programa in 10 minutes. We went up to the suite floor — interesting, because it now has its own check-in concierge on that floor, which I think is a great plus, considering all the flights of stairs to get to the main check-in — and had a great session for 55 minutes. The new rooms are nice — yes, they are. After I paid the garoto and returned the room key, I went to the bar for a bottled water to refresh myself, and he got dressed and then sat at a table with an older (I assume Brazilian) client. I assume that is who he came to Lagoa to see. They later left together. 

I got dressed at about 8 pm, feeling tired and went back to the hotel, after ordering take out from down the street. 

My initial impression from only a Wednesday visit was that so far, the new Lagoa is much worse than the old one, and is definitely NOT better than Club 117 or Point 202 in Rio.  My thoughts on visiting what once used to be THE premier sauna in the Western Hemisphere is that I should not have to go to Lagoa and only see one garoto that I prefer, and that is only after waiting 90 minutes for a garoto that is my type to appear!

But I will say that the previous claims here of it being so ridiculously packed with garotos that clients could not move or sit were just ridiculous.

And possibly, the rain that night could’ve played a factor in the low quality of garotos there.

So, I did return to Lagoa on Friday and Saturday to get a more complete view and review and to do a comparison on other days later in the week.

Lagoa on Friday:

I arrived about 4:45 pm. This night was much better than Wednesday. Perhaps the rain storm on Wednesday was the main factor? Anyway, by 6 pm, it was very crowded, but I would still NOT describe it as “cramped” or “overcrowded”, like some did previously at this board. Once you figure out the frustrating maze of the stairs, the space is manageable and pretty nice (and the owner really does need to put reflective tape on some of those stairs, because they are hard to see — and I and one other client almost tripped and fell down those stairs).  Now, is it as nice as the old Lagoa? Of course not! But I do think he did well with the limited space that he was given — with a few improvements that would still need to be done in order to make it more user-friendly.

Friday night, I ventured to the top floor (I think it’s the 4th floor), where the 2nd bar / seating area, gym, video room and the outdoor smoking section are. This floor has more space for clients and garotos to interact and relax. It’s not as loud or as compact as the main social space on the 2nd floor. Maybe some elderly, overweight, or just cardio-averse clients won’t bother to venture up to this top floor, due to it being up three whole flights of stairs. But the space is there.

Now, about trying to find garotos due to the confusing maze of stairs  — I didn’t find it all that hard. Of course, I am in good shape and I am not averse to walking up and down a lot of stairs — and make no mistake, there are a lot of stairs here, like an old New York City walk-up! Many clients are not like this, though. Some will probably just go to the second floor (main room) and chill / remain there until when or if it’s time for them to go to the third floor (suite / cabine floor) for a programa. I could definitely see elderly, weight-challenged or disabled clients having navigation issues at the new Lagoa.

Now, for the most important part. About the garotos...

Friday, there was a better selection than Wednesday. IF Rodolfo was thinking of instituting a hard age restriction, then I did not see it, because some of the garotos over 30 that I remember and liked from before were present, and I know they are over 30 (but they are very muscular and masculine and well-endowed, so maybe these are a part of Rodolfo’s “exceptions”). I saw 5-7 garotos that were my physical type, and I already knew 5 of them. I had 3 programas on Friday, and only 1 was with a new garoto (this programa turned out to be a big disappointment — I will NOT ever repeat with him). Every other garoto that I saw that was my type was someone that I either had already met at Lagoa before or at another sauna in another city. Three programas was a lot for me and definitely over my self-imposed daily budget, so I had to stop after my third (and first ejaculation) for this night. And then I went back to the hotel. 

I was hoping to see more “new meat”, but considering that I met the Brazilian Greek God on Wednesday (he was there again on Friday and one of my 3 programas — he mostly sat at a table with two older Brazilian queens — one that proudly wears a towel on his head and around his torso just like a woman would at a sauna — when he is not doing a programa), and I met the new garoto (that was a disappointing programa and I will not repeat), I suppose I did meet at least one new garoto that I liked each day thus far. I don’t think those numbers compare well at all to the old Lagoa from 4-5 years ago, but they seem to be on par with my trip to Lagoa from last year.

Regarding other garotos (the ones that are not my type), I did notice a trend of more twinky-fied garotos — who for some odd reason, always want to approach me, because I do my absolute best not to even give them any attention or eye contact at all. I don’t get at all why Lagoa is featuring twinks when that is the purview of Fragata. Not that I was focusing on it, but I did not notice the smaller twinkish types being hired much at all by clients, so I don’t agree that most clients go there for that type. Maybe there are a few who do regularly hire them, but they seem to be only a few — a minority, but perhaps a reliable minority.

(I also couldn’t help but notice a group of very loud Americans, speaking loudly and obnoxiously in conversation at the bar area. I really do hate that. They give us all a bad name, IMO. Leave your Florida trash in Florida. No one is impressed.)

Overall, on Friday, I had a good time at Lagoa (enough of a good time to stay in my hotel room and sleep on a Friday night afterwards!). This night was the closest in reminiscence to the old Lagoa during its prime from 5 or so years ago — although it still did not come close to that.

But another thing about the new Lagoa I could not help but notice on Friday:

The ratio of garotos-to-clients on Friday was ridiculously low! I would estimate that there was less than 1 working boy for every 1 client. This is absolutely outrageous. As I mentioned before, most of us clients go to pay saunas for garotos de programa and to have a selection of them. There should be at least 3 garotos per client. It should not be a place where clients have to compete for the attention and affection of garotos, but the other way around! If Rodolfo thinks a pay sauna can continue to be financially successful without having lots of great-looking garotos at the disposal for every client, then IMO, he is going to learn a hard valuable financial lesson. There is much more physical room and space for more garotos in there. IF he is concerned about restricting garotos due to space, then that concern seems highly unwarranted to me. The place needs more garotos! A 1:1 garoto-to-client ratio is unacceptable!

Lagoa on Saturday night:

It was just about as good/bad/meh as it was on Wednesday.  So, in my opinion, not very good and not good enough.

One of my steady favorites Who was visiting from another city was there again Saturday, like he was on Friday.  So I decided to have a programa with him at the sauna and then extend it to an overnight. That was my send-off back from São Paulo as my final night there.

But as I stated, Lagoa was not as good tonight as it was on Friday. When I was leaving (I had an hour at the sauna with this above-mentioned garoto), the gogo dancer show hosted by the drag queen was on and the main room was crowded. However, I saw no other garotos that appealed to me. The only two I saw all Saturday night were the one I had the hour programa with, and the one I had a programa with on the previous night — nothing new or different from either Wednesday or Friday was there. 

But here’s something again to note about the new Lagoa: 

The ratio of garotos to clients in the crowd on Saturday was even less than it was on the previous night! My estimate is that there were actually two clients for every garoto! 

That is completely unacceptable. 

I know I am not alone in this line of thinking, but I go to payboy saunas to see, mix and mingle with physically stunning, sexually virile and available garotos. I do NOT go to payboy saunas to see mostly pasty, flabby, balding, bellied, hairy-backed, naked old white dudes! If I wanted just to socialize and chuckle it up with a bunch of hairy bears with no to little availability of hot physical specimen, then there are plenty of gay bars for that and also saunas, bathhouses and sex clubs where men like that are readily available (to each other) for FREE! No, we go to pay saunas for the availability of men that otherwise may not be easily attainable— and to have plenty of choices of them. Two clients for every garoto? GTFOH with that bullshit!

There should be a minimum of three garotos per client.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by SolaceSoul

[likeohmygod]

So I can see that you agree with me...in a pay sauna I expect to see the best I can get from the market.

The only difference is the type of guys we like.

BTW I have never experienced a 3:1 ratio in a Brazilian sauna, not even during the slowest days. The highest ratio I can remember was maybe a 1.5:1 in 117 on a Wednesday? 7 or 8 customers, 12 boys?

Last time I went to 117 on a Tuesday there were something like maybe 40/50 customers during the peak hours.

120 garotos? Just won't happen (anymore at least...cannot talk about pre-2016 years).

Not trying to defend Lagoa at all costs since I've stated multiple times that I don't like it (didn't like the old one, don't like the new one).

Edited December 16, 2019 by likeohmygod

[SolaceSoul]

4 minutes ago, likeohmygod said:

So I can see that you agree with me...in a pay sauna I expect to see the best I can get from the market.

The only difference is the type of guys we like.

BTW I have never experienced a 3:1 ratio in a Brazilian sauna, not even during the slowest days. The highest ratio I can remember was maybe a 2:1 in 117 on a Wednesday?

Last time I went to 117 on a Tuesday there were something like maybe 40/50 customers during the peak hours.

120 garotos? Just won't happen (anymore at least...cannot talk about pre-2016 years).

If you cannot talk about pre-2016, then you really have very little to which to compare pay saunas!

As a paying client, I would judge a “slow day” at a sauna not by how many clients are there but by how many working guys there are. If there are 600 Fred Flintstone looking clients at the bar watching a drag / gogo show and chucking it up, and there are only 3 garotos, to me, that’s a slow sauna night.

A 3:1 or 4:1 ratio would be ideal, especially if it’s not filled with regular looking guys off the block. It’s what keeps Centaurus (straight Rio whorehouse) on top, stacked. with the most desirable women, and Rio’s 117 has definitely gotten close to a 3:1 ratio on its better nights recently and in the past. 2:1 should be the absolute bare minimum of what is expected at any whore house. Otherwise, garotos are having their pick of clients — and frankly, many if you don’t want to be left with the very real prospect t of being on the short end of THAT stick. (So, you like PAYING to get rejected?)

The new Lagoa has struggled with a 1:1 garoto:client ratio and even one night had a 1:2 garoto:client ratio. THAT. IS. NOT. GOOD. I don’t care if you like street trade, muscle boys, pretty model types, porno whores or barely legal twinks. A 1:2 ratio is DISMAL for a pay sauna.

Factor in that there is now at Lagoa even less of what I happily pay for — otherwise seemingly unattainable types — and that is problematic. Although, as I previously posted, it was better on Friday night. 

I never once experienced a room wait during these Lagoa visits, as I sometimes do on the busier nights at 117 or 202. Even on Friday night when I had my three different programas, it was instant room availability. So all those thin twinky types that posters at this particular niche board (aptly named “BOY TOY”) rave about sure weren’t occupying any suites. 

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, likeohmygod said:

Not trying to defend Lagoa at all costs since I've stated multiple times that I don't like it (didn't like the old one, don't like the new one).

The old Lagoa, architecturally, was magnificent. Other than Dragon in Fortaleza, I could not think of a more beautiful men for men pay sauna.

Previously, and this is probably not just a coincidence that this was when it had three owners (not just Rodolfo), Lagoa was also known to have the best-looking, best built, most otherwise physically unattainable working men at any men for men sauna. But yes, in the last year or so, the old Lagoa did see a decline in this status or a bit of a shift in the types of garotos that were available. 

If neither of these are desirable to you, then the old Lagoa (pre-2016) would probably not have been your speed.

[Riobard]

Forgive me if this is buried somewhere on the forum, but I am curious about whether the garotos de programa currently pay a facility entrance fee there. 

[Gotti]

Now that some reviews are in, I can figure out how precise mine was, that happened to be the first one. The stairs, that were on the title of my review, overwhelmed everyone and were  widely condemned, the rooms/suites had positive marks and thats about it. Surprisingly nobody mentioned the stage. A lesson? If you are selling encounters do not make it a vertical environment, in this case there is nothing that can be done, no renovations, re-arrangements, anything at all, the place is simply wrong from the get go. Unlike Rio, that is mostly buildings in the good areas, Sao Paulo has plenty of houses that even smaller, could offer a similar experience as the original one, instead the space that was chosen is simply puzzling.

I also noticed (but did not write about) the low rate boys/customers also 1/1 when I was there. I thought it happened because was the first weekend but it looks like a continuous situation, certainly unnaceptable. Who could ever predict that the mighty former Lagoa, just described by a fellow poster as "the best sauna of the western hemisphere" would play second fiddle for Rio de Janeiro's saunas. Hope to live to see Sao Paulo reaction!

Edited December 16, 2019 by Gotti

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, Gotti said:

Surprisingly nobody mentioned the stage. A lesson? If you are selling encounters do not make it a vertical environment, in this case there is nothing that can be done, no renovations, re-arrangements, anything at all, the place is simply wrong from the get go.

@Gotti, I think you will agree with me that very few well-paying customers at a whore house (by “well-paying”, I mean to both the house AND the boys, not just entry fee) really give more than two shits about the stage.

I notice that at every sauna, there are always a select few sloths who sit at tables almost the entire time and anxiously salivate and anticipate the drag-hosted lip-synched torch songs, comedy routines, and gogo boy show. However, although they are consistent customers, let’s just all intelligently agree from this point on that they are in the minority.

The real activity is happening with the garotos. A few may stop and sit at client tables to chat and get free drinks and food, but again, the real action occurs in the orbit. 

That stage is small and awkward. But in its defense, considering the space, there really wasn’t anywhere else for it to go.

Another thing I forgot to mention was trekking to the new Lagoa by Metro (subway). If you aren’t into cardio, and not a brisk walker, and you are averse to walking confidently and courageously on city streets, then do NOT attempt to take the subway! It’s going to be a challenge for you. I would not call it “dangerous”, because it’s mostly well-traveled by cars down Rua da Consolação, but if you’re not accustomed to São Paulo streets, and you aren’t into long walks, it’s not a good idea for you to risk the subway. Take an Uber or a cab to and from the sauna. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by SolaceSoul

[Gotti]

No question about it, boys are what we are in it for, I just mentioned the stage because there is lots of attention towards it (including boys) and how excrutiating will be a drag revue on a 12 inch high platform cramped in a corner of 2 walls.