a visit to the new Lagoa

[likeohmygod]

7 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

If you cannot talk about pre-2016, then you really have very little to which to compare pay saunas!

As a paying client, I would judge a “slow day” at a sauna not by how many clients are there but by how many working guys there are. If there are 600 Fred Flintstone looking clients at the bar watching a drag / gogo show and chucking it up, and there are only 3 garotos, to me, that’s a slow sauna night.

A 3:1 or 4:1 ratio would be ideal, especially if it’s not filled with regular looking guys off the block. It’s what keeps Centaurus (straight Rio whorehouse) on top, stacked. with the most desirable women, and Rio’s 117 has definitely gotten close to a 3:1 ratio on its better nights recently and in the past. 2:1 should be the absolute bare minimum of what is expected at any whore house. Otherwise, garotos are having their pick of clients — and frankly, many if you don’t want to be left with the very real prospect t of being on the short end of THAT stick. (So, you like PAYING to get rejected?)

The new Lagoa has struggled with a 1:1 garoto:client ratio and even one night had a 1:2 garoto:client ratio. THAT. IS. NOT. GOOD. I don’t care if you like street trade, muscle boys, pretty model types, porno whores or barely legal twinks. A 1:2 ratio is DISMAL for a pay sauna.

Factor in that there is now at Lagoa even less of what I happily pay for — otherwise seemingly unattainable types — and that is problematic. Although, as I previously posted, it was better on Friday night. 

I never once experienced a room wait during these Lagoa visits, as I sometimes do on the busier nights at 117 or 202. Even on Friday night when I had my three different programas, it was instant room availability. So all those thin twinky types that posters at this particular niche board (aptly named “BOY TOY”) rave about sure weren’t occupying any suites. 

So just because i begun to go to saunas in 2016 I am not entitled to compare saunas? ...I might not have a huge knowledge of how the of saunas looked like before 2016, but factoring my nearly 300/350 entrances in GP saunas in Brazil during the last 4 years, the most unpredictable and (just after the most) complicated ones, I believe that I am enough experienced now to make comparisons.

To me, and to many locals I use to hang out with, comparing nowadays saunas to 2005 saunas, is like comparing apples with pears. That's just impossible, not because I'm not used to analyze something I've never investigated by myself...but because there are too many variables on this business, right now even to compare 2019 scenario with the early 2018 one. So why would one person try to compare the present with an even more far past? It's a fact, saunas are changing, internet is becoming a stronger and stronger competitor and tastes and habits are also changing. There's nothing new here.

I have never said that the definition of a slow day depends on the quantity of customers for god's sake...even if some people seem to adore to treat me like a retarded, I am not that stupid.

EDIT: When i'm talking about ratios on this post, i'm always talking about the best days of the week, unless otherwise stated. It's not right to talk about ratios during slow days because the sample would be too small.

Even a world without poverty and wars would be ideal, but it won't happen..a 3:1 ratio? That won't happen as well. And it never happened to any of the major brazilian saunas during the last 4 years, except for days when there were like 10 boys and 5 customers...that would still suck in terms of absolute numbers. I remember Junior talking about one of the best days of 202...there were something like 60 boys and 80 customers during peak hours, and a 90 min queue. Now even thinking that those numbers are not inflated, that's still a ratio far below 1:1. Same ratios were reported from 117s staff.

So I think that there's some misunderstanding about your definition of ratio which must be investigated, and more specifically when that ratio is measured...on your arrival? At the time you leave?

There are only 2 ratios worth measuring inside this kind of business...peak time, and overall. Peak time (the time with the highest number of boys) is usually higher than the overall one...and it's never been by far close to 3:1 in any sauna. Unless you're measuring the ratio inside 117 at like 4.30 PM of a tuesday when there'are already 10/15 boys and 4/5 customers, which would still be dismal, for a facility as big as 117.

There's also another thing which makes a recurring 3:1 (or even a 2:1) ratio, not realistic...for the boys it just would be an enormous waste of time and energy. The risk of going home without having worked with a single customer would be not acceptable.

While it might be true that before 2016 I could have not enjoyed the typical sauna boy, it is also true that if the saunas are shifting towards the disco bodies, it is because again, that's were the demand has gone and is going even more nowadays. Not because they could not retain those type of boys. They've also nearly disappeared from the internet GP websited.

In a city with a population well over the 12 million mark, there's only been Lagoa (not counting Fragata for obvious reasons). If there was a so high demand for muscle gods, how is it possible that no one has ever had the guts to open a sauna focused on what was the old days Lagoa's standard? Because that would be the recipee for bankruptcy.

Btw it was not the nice architecture of the old Lagoa which i didn't like (and i could not care less about it, until it's functional), it was the general attitude that people from SP (most, not all) have.

Beside the boys thing...I agree with the critics, the new one's architecture is not functional at all for this purpose of business.

EDIT: some minor corrections, changed a clouple of digits to make calculations easier and to fix a miscalculation.

Edited December 16, 2019 by likeohmygod

[Gotti]

All this discussion about body types in a Lagoa topic and not a word on the type that made Lagoa a legend: the model!. Yes, they've been scarce of late (pos 2016?), If existent at all, possibly migrated to a different scene, the spa scene, only vaguely hinted in this space. Can somebody in the know please dissect it. We all need new thrills.

 

[Walker]

4 hours ago, Gotti said:

All this discussion about body types in a Lagoa topic and not a word on the type that made Lagoa a legend: the model!. Yes, they've been scarce of late (pos 2016?), If existent at all, possibly migrated to a different scene, the spa scene, only vaguely hinted in this space. Can somebody in the know please dissect it. We all need new thrills.

 

Another thread mentioned there is an increasing number of Brazilian hustlers in the U.S. 

And we all know many good ones work in the EU already.

[msclelovr]

6 hours ago, Gotti said:

the type that made Lagoa a legend: the model!. Yes, they've been scarce of late (pos 2016?), If existent at all, possibly migrated to a different scene

I think you’re exactly right @Gotti 

Years ago, I knew and played with several Brazilian muscleboys and fitness-models. Some have become actors on TV. One fitness-model was very keen for me to be his sugar-daddy; he wanted a steady income and to take less risk with his sexual health.

Although there are several handsome young models starting out professionally, I certainly don’t encounter any seeking a sugar-daddy or regular support in Europe. 
 

Maybe the scarcity is partly due to model agencies not wanting to recruit superbly muscled and athletic men; maybe the preference has shifted to a very lean physique. Maybe the models themselves are learning to monetize their assets differently. For instance, OnlyFans offers one way for them to generate a very steady $ income.

Edited December 17, 2019 by msclelovr

[pauleiro]

On 12/16/2019 at 1:22 PM, likeohmygod said:

So I can see that you agree with me...in a pay sauna I expect to see the best I can get from the market.

The only difference is the type of guys we like.

BTW I have never experienced a 3:1 ratio in a Brazilian sauna, not even during the slowest days. The highest ratio I can remember was maybe a 1.5:1 in 117 on a Wednesday? 7 or 8 customers, 12 boys?

As a customer, I am not at all interested by the  boys:customers ratio which is good for a consultant willing to publish a study on prostitution. I am only interested by the absolute number of boys who are present and available during the whole time I am in the sauna (*),  of which I consider the boys who appeal to me and with whom I can think of going further. As a matter of fact, in my case, this number has always been higher in 117. As a voyeur, I also enjoy to see the boys (whom I like or not) undressing, showering or wanking and 117 is much better than Pointe. 

(*) I tend to arrive at sauna around 5 to 6 pm and leave around 9 pm. If one boy leaves at 7 pm and another one arrives at 7 pm, even though the ratio boy/customer is unchanged, I count 2 boys.

I am happy when there are more than 6 or 7 guys I might consider going with. I am very happy even when there is only one boy in a sauna, whom I like and whom performed well in private (happened to me in a sauna in Sao Goncalo (2 customers ... 1 boy only) and in Belo Horizonte).

[pauleiro]

22 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

The old Lagoa, architecturally, was magnificent. Other than Dragon in Fortaleza, I could not think of a more beautiful men for men pay sauna.

I must plan a trip to Fortaleza to discover Dragon ! 

[pauleiro]

6 hours ago, Walker said:

Another thread mentioned there is an increasing number of Brazilian hustlers in the U.S. 

And we all know many good ones work in the EU already.

Some of the Greek Gods who used to be in saunas in Brazil are now in the European scene : they go from Brazil to Portugal using relatively cheap direct from various cities in Brazil, arriving in a country where people speak Portuguese then spreading to major cities in Europe (Barcelona, Zurich, Paris, London, ...)

[pauleiro]

16 hours ago, likeohmygod said:

So just because i begun to go to saunas in 2016 I am not entitled to compare saunas? ...I might not have a huge knowledge of how the of saunas looked like before 2016, but factoring my nearly 300/350 entrances in GP saunas in Brazil during the last 4 years

IMHO, Likeohmygod is certainly one of the best specialists of recent and current situation at Brazilian saunas and boys working in them. 

[Riobard]

Models today are social media advertisers. There is greater status and safety compared to tricking. The instant gratification of ego-boosts may seem shallow but is more humanized than the brothel setting. Idealized macro-influencers such as Ronaldo offer role-modeling.

I think it is possible that, while each post offers an audition for discovery and the dreamscape of potential increase in access to fame, the financial gain accrued by nano-influencers (let alone micro-influencers) relative to labour-intensity supersedes that of brothel earnings.

Moreover, companies paying stipends for social media product placement are expanding their marketing to the nano-influencer subgroup and are not lowballing according to geo-specificity and wage demographics. The compensation differential for Brazilian escorts is not replicated in the clothing, sports etc industry.

[Riobard]

The discussion seems to touch on quantitative versus qualitative. 

An uneven ratio in the brothel setting poses the conundrum of exponentiality. A ho:john ratio of 3:1 requires an average john commitment of 3 programas for each provider to leave with a minimum paycheque.

If the average bottom-line earnings expectation for sustainability is 2 programas, the average consumers’ hire rate for the same inventory ratio climbs to 6 tricks per visit. No gawkers, no time-wasters, no middle-agers appropriating the bar for peer socializing because they are invisible in conventional gay clubs.

The garota brothel ratio is closer to 1:5 but the providers, unlike garotos, are not hampered by the diminished return of consecutive chamber bullets in the context of expectations for objective physiological evidence of authentic arousal. The hetero clients are there for one purpose alone, yet patron volume relative to provider inventory seems to be vast and supports the notion of quality over quantity despite the absolute numbers of working ladies. 

[Riobard]

The most endorsed ideal body type preferred by gay men at the level of pure physical attractiveness is the muscular build, ie mesomorph somatotype, not just definition but mass. This is incontrovertible. 

Generally, the much smaller proportion of gay men preferring the slender build, ie ectomorph somatotype, is drawn to defined abs and well-developed butt. Those features are less dependent on overall muscularity. 

Beyond body type but more facially related, eyes and jawline are important. 

[SolaceSoul]

One more time, for those in the back of the room: the pay saunas that are going under are not the ones that specialize in the physical ideal / physically unattainable men and women. The saunas that are flopping or that have flopped are the ones that feature average Joes and Jills.

And regarding the claim that if garotos have to leave a sauna without making money off a programa, then they will stop coming to the sauna altogether and the sauna will suffer: 

The only garotos that don’t make money on the best sauna nights are the least desirable ones. The garotos that I prefer somehow NEVER seem to go home broke without a programa. In fact, they usually arrive late / leave early. It’s somehow always seems to be those sad sack barely-legal boney-thin twinks and “boys next door” that are begging for money at the end of the night, because they need to pay their entrance fee.

It reminds me of the posters who often regale the readers with stories about garotos who choose to spend inordinate amounts of time with them at their tables and then dinner or their apartments / hotels. Those are the ones that really have no other options! A garoto that is making money doesn’t waste a lot of time lollygagging at the bar tables with some clients — unless that client has booked them in advance for the entire night. 

 

[Anthonyvan]

Is it possible that the guys are increasingly turning to the Internet to source new clients? After all, instead of spending time at the sauna and being tied up, taking appts from the Internet may be a more cost&time effective approach. 

Has anyone tried to meet up with guys from some escort websites? Is the quality better?

[Marcorjbr]

The boys pay entry fees... currently running 20 reais in Rio.  Not sure about Lagoa but imagine that the boys pay a fee.... 

It is one of the ways to eliminate the boys who do not produce revenue fir the owner.

[Marcorjbr]

I was in SP on business and went to Lagoa last Friday and Sunday.  It certainly is much smaller than the original but all in all I think the layout and space utilization are well done.  The place has a modern club like look and I appreciate the thought put into the materials and finishings used.  Yes there are stairs and ramps but they are all wide with hand rails and the step hights are reasonable, especially for the more elderly clients...  I found plenty of boys on both nights with a pretty good mixture of sizes, colors, and ages.  Looked pretty much like the old Lagoa type boys.  The suites were clean with showers and excellent sheets and pillows.  I will certainly be a client on my frequent trips to SP.

Imho... in recent years ... with cell phones...the best boys were never to be found in the saunas.  As the internet / smart phone / app world  has developed the better quality guys moved into the technology.

The old Lagoa is from another time.... I am guessing the new Lagoa will be very profitable for Rudolpho, maybe even more so on a profit per sq meter bases.

[Marcorjbr]

20 minutes ago, Marcorjbr said:

The boys pay entry fees... currently running 20 reais in Rio.  Not sure about Lagoa but imagine that the boys pay a fee.... 

It is one of the ways to eliminate the boys who do not produce revenue for the owner.

 

[SolaceSoul]

17 hours ago, Anthonyvan said:

Has anyone tried to meet up with guys from some escort websites? Is the quality better?

First question: yes.

Second question: no, especially depending on the city and the sauna. 
 

 

[sydneyboy1]

Any more comments on the new Lagoa after its “settling down “ period?

[Walker]

On 12/18/2019 at 3:36 AM, Anthonyvan said:

 

Has anyone tried to meet up with guys from some escort websites? Is the quality better?

You rely on their pictures when choosing guys from escort website.  These pictures could be altered or taken from a angle to hide something. My one and only experience with a website escort in SP,  this guy's penis is much smaller than what's shown on pictures. If this was at a sauna, his size is definitely way below average, and would not get much attention at all. At saunas, customers can inspect the merchandise before they decide to hire.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Walker

[Latbear4blk]

3 hours ago, Walker said:

You rely on their pictures when choosing guys from escort website.  These pictures could be altered or taken from a angle to hide something. My one and only experience with a website escort in SP,  this guy's penis is much smaller than what's shown on pictures. If this was at a sauna, his size is definitely way below average, and would not get much attention at all. At saunas, customers can inspect the merchandise before they decide to hire.

True, but that does not guarantee they will render a good service in private. I had very disappointing experiences in saunas.

@Anthonyvan, I have not hired in Brazil from escorts website, but I did from Twitter and Grindr, and the quality I found was excellent. I think Brazil is a place where sex work thrives and is normal. Escorts websites, apps, social media, saunas, street, all have advantages and disadvantages. Try them all.

[wncdemcub]

On 12/17/2019 at 10:16 AM, pauleiro said:

I must plan a trip to Fortaleza to discover Dragon ! 

I will be there next week

[pauleiro]

4 hours ago, wncdemcub said:

I will be there next week

Tell us what it looks like currently boywise 

[wncdemcub]

9 hours ago, pauleiro said:

Tell us what it looks like currently boywise 

I will do my best

[Anthonyvan]

On 12/26/2019 at 4:48 AM, Latbear4blk said:

True, but that does not guarantee they will render a good service in private. I had very disappointing experiences in saunas.

@Anthonyvan, I have not hired in Brazil from escorts website, but I did from Twitter and Grindr, and the quality I found was excellent. I think Brazil is a place where sex work thrives and is normal. Escorts websites, apps, social media, saunas, street, all have advantages and disadvantages. Try them all.

Is it because you are able to see some videos of them via Twitter? Where would you meet them though? I always get paranoid inviting a stranger to my place and have no intention of being the headline "foreigner seeking fun ends up being robbed or slain".

[Latbear4blk]

17 hours ago, Anthonyvan said:

Is it because you are able to see some videos of them via Twitter? Where would you meet them though? I always get paranoid inviting a stranger to my place and have no intention of being the headline "foreigner seeking fun ends up being robbed or slain".

I have always used the same common sense precautions I use when I am at home. But indeed, your comfort is paramount. If you have concerns, stay with the safest option and only meet sauna boys in the sauna. 

Edited January 3, 2020 by Latbear4blk