Gaybutton Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: _____ NEW LAW CRIMINALISES NORWEGIANS BUYING SEX IN PATTAYA A Norwegian law which came into effect 1st January 2009 makes it a crime for Norwegians to buy, but not to sell, sex in Norway and abroad. The implications for Norwegian citizens engaging in such nefarious activities in Pattaya are still unclear. The main target for the legislation is the streets of Norway’s capital, Oslo, where the Norwegian authorities say they want to stamp out prostitution by targeting clients rather than prostitutes. Norwegian citizens caught paying for prostitutes at home or abroad could face a hefty fine or a six-month prison sentence. The Norwegian Minister Of Justice, Knut Storberget, has stated that all Norwegian sex clients should now be wary and has made it clear that the law also applies to Norwegians purchasing sexual favours outside of the country. It will be difficult to prosecute, he said, but not impossible. The Norwegian authorities have managed to punish pedophiles who have paid to have sex with children in Thailand and will be able to prosecute “normal” sex clients in the same way, he added. On the evening of the 1st January PDN decided to gauge the reaction to the new law among Norwegian visitors in Pattaya. I chose Kåre’s Party Bar on Pattaya’s second road, a beer bar popular among Norwegian tourists who make up 90% of the bar’s clientele. I asked Terje, the co-owner of the bar, if there had been any reaction from his customers to the new law, having already ascertained that his bar was not in the business of procuring women for sexual services. He said the law had long been a popular theme of discussion but no-one took it seriously. He suggested Norwegian authorities should put their own house in order before persecuting its citizens abroad. He also wondered how the authorities planned to enforce the law in Thailand. Would Norway be sending undercover agents to gather evidence? Would the Thai Police cooperate? The law also specifically defines the sexual activities it covers. These include payment for sexual intercourse, physical contact between exposed genitalia, one or two-way masturbation or touching someone’s private parts or breasts. “Payment” is defined as the exchange of money, or payment in kind, including the giving of flowers and gifts. Whilst talking to Terje he asked several of his customers, jokingly : ”Have you broken the law today?” to which some responded with a look of bewilderment. As a parting comment I suggested he print the question on t-shirts and make a fortune selling them in his bar. To which he gave me a wry smile, but unfortunately no offer of a commission…. "Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?" - George Carlin Quote
PattayaMale Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 When I read this I thought it must be an April Fools joke. It is amazing how governments want so badly to control what consenting adults do. So what happens on Valentines day when you give flowers to your lover? Bam...off to jail. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 A Norwegian law which came into effect 1st January 2009 makes it a crime for Norwegians to buy, but not to sell, sex in Norway and abroad This must be the most idiotic law to hit the statute books anywhere for some years. Just think of all the time that has been spent getting this motion approved and legalised, and the time that will be spent by Norwegian and overseas criminal investigation departments, time which could be far better spent in reducing 'real' crime. You can just hear the defence of any Norwegian gays arrested in Pattaya. Judge: "Were you buying sex?" Defendant: "No, your honour." Judge: "But you were naked and money changed hands." Defendant: "Yes, your honour." Judge: "So you paid for sex." Defendant: "No, your honour. I gave him money so his poor family could buy a water buffalo. He thanked me by giving me a massage." Judge: "Case dismissed!" Nuts! Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 This must be the most idiotic law to hit the statute books anywhere for some years. And we wonder about Thai logic. I wonder if the Vikings would have approved of this legislation. I wonder how the goddess Freya would have felt about it. It just amazes me that here we are, now in 2009, and there are still modern western countries that want to legislate what consenting adults can do sexually in the privacy of their bedrooms. It's frustrating when these sanctimonious pseudo-moralists decide the rest of the world has to do their bidding, even when it comes to sex between consenting adults. Quisling would have loved this one. Well, get ready for a good laugh. You know that sooner or later one of the people behind such legislation is going to get caught with his own pants down. In the joke above, I wouldn't be surprised if such a scenario had a slightly different punchline: Defendant: "No, your honour. I gave him money so his poor family could buy a water buffalo. He thanked me by giving me a massage." Judge: "Case dismissed!" Defendant: "By the way, your honor, he did ask me to give you his regards and said he looks forward to seeing you again." Quote
Guest Steve1903 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I think (though I may be wrong) that the UK are thinking along the same lines. Target the customer instead of the prostitute seems to be the modern way of thinking. Quote
Guest MonkeySee Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 The following appears in the PATTAYA DAILY NEWS: _____ NEW LAW CRIMINALISES NORWEGIANS BUYING SEX IN PATTAYA A Norwegian law which came into effect 1st January 2009 makes it a crime for Norwegians to buy, but not to sell, sex in Norway and abroad. The implications for Norwegian citizens engaging in such nefarious activities in Pattaya are still unclear. The main target for the legislation is the streets of Norway’s capital, Oslo, where the Norwegian authorities say they want to stamp out prostitution by targeting clients rather than prostitutes. Norwegian citizens caught paying for prostitutes at home or abroad could face a hefty fine or a six-month prison sentence. I always thought Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Holland were very liberal in their thinking and legislation concerning sex. I guess all of that has changed. Looks like the religious fundamentalists have taken over Norway. Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 Target the customer instead of the prostitute seems to be the modern way of thinking. That's pretty much the way it works in Thailand now, isn't it? Virtually all of the prostitution arrests are arrests of farang who were accused of engaging in sex with someone under-age. Nothing ever happens to the prostitute, only the customer. I don't have an opinion (that's a first!) as to whether that's right or wrong, good or bad. That's simply the way it is. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Virtually all of the prostitution arrests are arrests of farang who were accused of engaging in sex with someone under-age. Nothing ever happens to the prostitute, only the customer. While the underage Thai may well be a prostitute, in the eyes of the law they are victims because they are underage. That is why the person who engages in sex with them is the one who is arrested. As for the prostitutes of legal age, it is interesting that they are not prosecuted also. Quote
KhorTose Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 This must be the most idiotic law to hit the statute books anywhere for some years. Just think of all the time that has been spent getting this motion approved and legalised, and the time that will be spent by Norwegian and overseas criminal investigation departments, time which could be far better spent in reducing 'real' crime. I could not agree more. What is sad is this law is suppose to protect the "weaker members of society", but reading between the lines I come to an opposite conclusion. What has happened is that Europe and Scandanavia is/was being overran by prostitutes from africa and other third world countries. Sweden and Finland passed a similar law (without the foreign restrictions) and most of the prostitutes moved to Norway. This is more of a "not in my backyard law". The native Norweigen prostitutes are supposed to be offered drug counciling and job training, but what will happen is that the trade will go underground, pimps will move in, and in the long run all of the prostitutes will be far worse off under this law then they were before. The deputy minister of Justice is quoted as saying that she does not intend to enforce the overseas part of this law unless it involves children, but it is a law, and it is on the books. So next time we make fun of some of the stupid Thai laws, remember any country can have a spat of idiots in power. http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNew...ory_320411.html Quote
Guest MonkeySee Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Oh so true. It is very hard to regulate the oldest profession in history. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 What has happened is that Europe and Scandanavia is/was being overran by prostitutes from africa and other third world countries. Very good point, KhorTose. A few years back, I remember driving along a country road in Italy to visit friends who had rented a villa around 15 kms outside the city of Arezzo. On a 5 km stretch of that road, there were African prostitutes waiting for clients virtually every 100 meters. I assume the local ladies-of-the-night had forced them out of the city. Odd how immigration (often illegal) in to Europe seems not to have affected the local boys-of-the-night and their territory - or maybe that's underground. Quote
Guest fountainhall Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 So next time we make fun of some of the stupid Thai laws, remember any country can have a spat of idiots in power. Yea, remember the US congress changing "French Fries" to "Freedom Fries" in their canteen menu when the French would not support Bush Jnr. invading Iraq? So childish. Maybe GB should start a thread of the dumbest political decisions. Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 3, 2009 Author Posted January 3, 2009 Maybe GB should start a thread of the dumbest political decisions. Thank you, but Confucius say "He who come up with idea, get to start new thread himself." Quote
Guest Astrrro Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 A number of years back in NYC the government was trying to impound cars of those who were driving around looking for prostitutes. That's a pretty big fine! It seems there's always a "moral majority" trying to mold society into their vision. In practice, I suppose there'll be no enforcement of the overseas component of this law except in high profile cases. But it still disturbs me. Quote
Guest slackersam Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 A year or two ago the US Congress debated a law that would have made it a crime to buy sex overseas. I don't think it got anywhere, but I always wondered what would have happened if that law made it to the Supreme Court. Quote
Guest shebavon Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 A year or two ago the US Congress debated a law that would have made it a crime to buy sex overseas. I don't think it got anywhere, but I always wondered what would have happened if that law made it to the Supreme Court. I don't know about that law, but I do know that there is a US law on the books which makes it a crime for Americans to have sex with underage (18) boys or girls abroad, and it is enforced. Talk about the long arm of the law. Quote
Guest GaySacGuy Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I don't know about that law, but I do know that there is a US law on the books which makes it a crime for Americans to have sex with underage (18) boys or girls abroad, and it is enforced. Talk about the long arm of the law. That is true, and it doesn't matter what the age of consent is in the country your visiting...if under 18, illegal, even if the age of consent is 16 in the country. This also applies state to state in the US. If you are in a state where you don't reside, then 18 is the age of consent. So much for all the US freedoms!! Quote
Guest slackersam Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Has that law ever been tested by the appeals court? I'd be very surprised if it was constitutional Quote
Guest slackersam Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Is the law against having sex with underage people abroad or for travelling for the purpose of having sex with underage people abroad. For example, I'm an American but a long term resident of France where the age of consent is 16. If I hooked up with a 17 year old could I be prosecuted - or could I only be prosecuted if I specifically went from America to France to have sex with a 17 year old? That is true, and it doesn't matter what the age of consent is in the country your visiting...if under 18, illegal, even if the age of consent is 16 in the country. This also applies state to state in the US. If you are in a state where you don't reside, then 18 is the age of consent. So much for all the US freedoms!! Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 The age of consent is applied to the country/state where the sex occurs. Where you live has no bearing on it at all. In Thailand the sex partner must be at least 18 years old at the time the sex occurs. Quote
Guest GaySacGuy Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 The age of consent is applied to the country/state where the sex occurs. Where you live has no bearing on it at all. In Thailand the sex partner must be at least 18 years old at the time the sex occurs. This isn't true in the US. There is a federal statue that makes 18 the age of consent for a US resident that is outside his home state. If you are not in your state of residence, then 18 is the age of consent irregardless of the age of consent in the jurisdiction you have traveled too. If you are in a country where the age of consent is 16, and you are from the US, the legal age of consent for you to have sexual relations in 18. As to the long term residence of another country by a US citizen, I am not sure...but I would be very careful, as the feds might prosecute on the over 18 statue anyway. Quote
Guest slackersam Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 That's sorta a challenge in France where the drinking age is 16, so a fair percentage of guys in the bar on any given night are under 18. And, obviously they have some incentive to lie about their age. Quote
Gaybutton Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 Regarding the USA, I tend to look more at what does happen, rather than what could happen. As far as I know, what does happen is that the USA goes after people who travel to foreign countries and engage in sex with children, kiddie porn, and that sort of thing. I know of no cases, not one, in which the USA prosecuted anyone for having sex with people age 18 and over when visiting a foreign country. Certainly there are countries where the age of consent is age 16. According to my understanding of USA law, a person can be prosecuted for sex with someone of that age. The obvious question is do they prosecute for that? If the USA has been prosecuting people for sex with those who have reached age of consent within their own country, I am not familiar with any such cases. That doesn't mean there aren't any. It simply means I don't personally know of any. Quote
Guest slackersam Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 In some parts of the US the age of consent is 16. Quote
Guest lvdkeyes Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Strangely in SC the age of consent is 14 for girls and 16 for boys. There are a few other states where the age of consent is different for girls vs. boys. Quote
