First timer in Santo Domingo (reports added)

[snwbrdr015]

Hi forum dwellers,

All reservations are made, everything is planned. I'll be heading of to the Dominican Republic for the first time this august 15th - august 30th 2019. I am so exited! A special shout-out to 1tennisace who made my head spin with his fantastic trip reports and some extra tips through PM (thanks buddy). I fly out to Punta Cana, which is a few hundred euros cheaper than flying out to Santo Domingo directly. From Europe this is. 

After unwinding in Punta Cana I'll have my 10-days-slut-tour in Santo Domingo from august 17th - 27th. I found a newly renovated, private Airbnb one block away from Parque Colon and Parque Duarte. Doesn't get more centrally I guess. If there are any forum members out there who like to share stories over a cup of coffee or a cocktail whilst in Santo Domingo, be sure to PM me! Always fun to meet up with like minded and have a laugh.

Reports on this trip will be added to this post. We all like a good sleaze story don't we?! Any suggestions to improve my experience (cruising spots, saftey tips, etc.) are highly appreciated of course.

[Kevie770]

Make friends with other travelers! Don’t be afraid to spark up a conversation.  I traveled to SD for 6 years before I started speaking with other travelers and I missed a lot!  And a rule of thumb the loud black gays a Pacos (though at times annoying) know ALL the boys lol! And if you become friends they will hook you up!

 

[snwbrdr015]

hahaha Thanks for your tips  @Kevie770! Even though I move around in a discrete manner, I am very easy going and talkative always. I agree that meeting other travelers is a big bonus: strength in numbers! It's even better to meet a traveler who belongs to 'our family' too hehe. 'Loud black boys at Paco's', hahaha: mental note made!

[SolaceSoul]

20 hours ago, Kevie770 said:

And a rule of thumb the loud black gays a Pacos (though at times annoying) know ALL the boys lol! And if you become friends they will hook you up!

Your mileage may vary depending on how you prefer to travel or roll, but IMHO, this is The. Worst. Advice. Ever.

My rule of thumb is: if you wouldn’t associate with someone Stateside (or in your local area), then don’t bother with them elsewhere.

And no, they DON’T “know ALL the boys”. Maybe they think they do or convinced you they do — but in general, they know the very same boys that the standard, run-of-the-mill, loud, obnoxious American queen (black or white) would meet.

And then there’s all the downside of associating with them and being seen associating with them. I would suppose that, for some, there is safety in numbers, and for a first-time, shy, reserved, solo traveler who might never see them again, there may be some benefits — but for others, the risk far outweighs the reward. 

Hard pass.

[paborn]

I know the group you're referring to at Paco's. I can't say I know them well as I avoid them and it's been relatively easy as they don't know any of the boys I know and I don't run into them at nice events. Now, I hasten to add that I don't actively dislike them and if, on a rare occasion that I stop at Paco's for a coffee, and one spoke to me I would respond and god knows we might have a good conversation. By the way, there are black gays who live and work in Santo Domingo who are not loud or obnoxious so do be open to association but I urge you to heed the advice of  SolaceSoul - if you would not start a conversation with them at home - think first.

I guess my biggest issue with the advice is that I can't recall ever making an overture to other gays to "pimp" them - Francisco and Manny are in that business, If you meet another tourist and he is gracious enough to introduce you to someone that is wonderful,  but you said you're "discrete" they are far over the rainbow from that. @snwbrd015 you sound quite nice try to stay that way. You will be known by the people you associate with. 

Having said that, I echo the idea that there is some safety in numbers just be careful and you'll have a nice trip.

[Kevie770]

 Guys, let me clarify, there are many different groups of loud black (I’m also black) Americans gays that go, some are helpful some are just a nuisance.  I’ve learned who’s who only by speaking with people.  Honesty I thought they were obnoxious queens until I got to know them! I would sit in Pacos all discrete and judge like I’m sure you two do lol.  I’m not saying you have hang out with them but talk with them at Pacos and you might learn something.  I mean why pay Manny or anyone else for their rolodex when the people who travel there regularly already have the digits for FREE! I made that mistake for years and I promise you none of Manny’s Freddy or Fransisco’s guys are exclusive lol.  And being seen with them isn’t going to stop any of the guys from getting with you I promise lol!  Pacos after 7 is the place gay men congregate so being seen there isn’t discreet in any way.  You guys are hilarious tho!  The different opinions are one reason I love this forum. 

Edited July 17, 2019 by Kevie770

[paborn]

57 minutes ago, Kevie770 said:

 Guys, let me clarify, there are many different groups of loud black (I’m also black) Americans gays that go, some are helpful some are just a nuisance.  I’ve learned who’s who only by speaking with people.  Honesty I thought they were obnoxious queens until I got to know them! I would sit in Pacos all discrete and judge like I’m sure you two do lol.  I’m not saying you have hang out with them but talk with them at Pacos and you might learn something.  I mean why pay Manny or anyone else for their rolodex when the people who travel there regularly already have the digits for FREE! I made that mistake for years and I promise you none of Manny’s Freddy or Fransisco’s guys are exclusive lol.  And being seen with them isn’t going to stop any of the guys from getting with you I promise lol!  Pacos after 7 is the place gay men congregate so being seen there isn’t discreet in any way.  You guys are hilarious tho!  The different opinions are one reason I love this forum. 

OK. But let me clarify. I have been going to SDQ for 35 years. 3 to 4 times a year. I have had intimate friends who operated gay bars and discos.I do know boys who are exclusive because they have long term relationships with Americans - usually this means we send them an allowance to live on.

Perhaps you missed my comment:  "By the way, there are black gays who live and work in Santo Domingo who are not loud or obnoxious so do be open to association but I urge you to heed the advice of  SolaceSoul - if you would not start a conversation with them at home - think first."  All either of us are saying is to be careful in your relationships . You're right a common street hustler will not care who you are with. However, a young gay hanging out at the park with other gays might care a great deal.

By the way, you also missed that I rarely sit in Pacos and judge - in fact, it has been about 8 trips since I last visited Pacos. There is a lovely Cafe called "Cafe Santo Domingo" on the Conde just off Duarte that is owned by a Frenchwoman . The pastries are superb, the sandwhiches wonderful and the coffee perfect. It is also, blessedly, free of anyone who is loud or obnoxious. That is were I take my current boyfriend of two years to.

Honestly, I think you are trying to be helpful; but I oppose soliciting any friendship or even acquaintance for the sake of a "rolodex"

[SolaceSoul]

5 minutes ago, paborn said:

You're right a common street hustler will not care who you are with. However, a young gay hanging out at the park with other gays might care a great deal.

Also, men — straight, gay or bi — who feel they have much to lose by association would care a great deal. 

This applies to many Dominicanos that might be G4P but wouldn’t risk being seen with loud showy American sex tourists at Pacos. It also applies to travelers who have perfectly valid reasons not to risk becoming too familiar with loud showy untrustworthy American sex tourists.

As one who has traveled there for years and made friends and acquaintances with a number of locals, expats and travelers, I trust my own judgment to know the difference.

[Kevie770]

LOL, I can feel the hate for these guys coming off my phone screen lol! But coming from someone who has been to the island over a 35-year span, I understand you are coming from a different perspective. Shit, I’m not even 35 years old lol, if I werew your age I wouldn’t be caught dead around them either.  We have COMPLETELY different perspectives, and what we do during our travels and our reason for hiring guys, I’m sure, are different as well.  The only thing I can do is share my experience. My experience that of someone that's damn close 30 who has traveled to Santo Domingo since 2012.  I was shy when I first went and only stuck to myself, and because of that, there were many things in Santo Domingo I did not know about until I opened up to others.  In my case, it happened to be those loud guys who approached me lol. No, it doesn’t have to be the loud gays,  but that’s how I meet people like Anthony Montgomery and other cool expats. And you are entirely right 80% of the guy's worth anything wouldn’t be caught dead hanging out at Pacos.  I said in another thread that I haven’t picked up a guy from Pacos in over two years.  So we are definitely on the same page there! But that Park Durante(sp) is a completely different crowed, if that’s your crowd more power to you Lol.  But I think everyone’s opinion is of value and can help others have a fantastic vacation, maybe I’ll see you at their Halloween party this year lol! 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Kevie770

[Riobard]

Yeah, I try (tried) to be friendly but ... Their perspective from my perspective: I am basically an aged Jeffery Dahmer in a KKK hood ... too soon? No disrespect. Sounds like nobody's loss. 

------

You cannot miss the café's signage, but it is Café La Moricette serving a popular brand of Dominican coffee, Café Santo Domingo.

[Kevie770]

I’m Bruh this shit is like LOL funny! People be BIG MAD and Aggressive about nothing. Just know It’s all love from my side guys! I really love and appreciate everyone’s input! Especially  about Rio! So be sure to answer my private messages about Rio .

Edited July 18, 2019 by Kevie770

[paborn]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

Yeah, I try (tried) to be friendly but ... Their perspective from my perspective: I am basically an aged Jeffery Dahmer in a KKK hood ... too soon? No disrespect. Sounds like nobody's loss. 

------

You cannot miss the café's signage, but it is Café La Moricette serving a popular brand of Dominican coffee, Café Santo Domingo.

Thanks. I go there all the time and never noticed the name. 

[mvan1]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

Yeah, I try (tried) to be friendly but ... Their perspective from my perspective: I am basically an aged Jeffery Dahmer in a KKK hood ...

What!  Jeffrey Dahmer - You?

Do you remember who he was?

I might have to restore that Bavarian clock.

[SolaceSoul]

7 hours ago, Riobard said:

Yeah, I try (tried) to be friendly but ... Their perspective from my perspective: I am basically an aged Jeffery Dahmer in a KKK hood ... too soon? No disrespect. Sounds like nobody's loss. 

 

Who is the “their” here?

[paborn]

4 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

Who is the “their” here?

Thank you. I just skipped over this and thanked you for the name of my favorite cafe - in my defense the Cafe Santo Domingo sign in huge. I thought the company was paying for the signage by arrangement as its the coffee they use and the only one I buy. ( yes, you can get it in Miami )

More to the point can you clarify the Dahmmer and KKK quote -?

[Riobard]

Apologies, definitely too abstruse a metaphor for stand-up, so should scratch it. Perhaps works better mixing metaphor and simile, in written form, but the need for elaboration by rewording or explanation further supports canning my attempt to add to what I thought was the idea of tourist subgroups mixing fine versus like oil and water. I assumed the theme could relate to sex procurement agenda, cultural history including marginalization, compatibility, and distrust. 

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The cafe's true name is only important for map pinning, online reviews, and social media. And, my bias, the French do pastry better. 

[paborn]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

Apologies, definitely too abstruse a metaphor for stand-up, so should scratch it. Perhaps works better mixing metaphor and simile, in written form, but the need for elaboration by rewording or explanation further supports canning my attempt to add to what I thought was the idea of tourist subgroups mixing fine versus like oil and water. I assumed the theme could relate to sex procurement agenda, cultural history including marginalization, compatibility, and distrust. 

---------

The cafe's true name is only important for map pinning, online reviews, and social media. And, my bias, the French do pastry better. 

Ok. I've got it now. You're quite correct and I see the metaphor now. To be frank. my suspicion of their perception of me has always been a hinderance to my reaching out.

And, my bias - the Viennese do it even better - alas, the French will have too do. Honestly, they do a wonderful warmed tuna sandwich.

 

Oh, by the way - you write like an Oxford Don - that's a compliment. It's jus that an academic style can take a few more moments of pondering than most posts here require.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Paborn1340

[BlkSuperman]

@snwbrdr015 thanks so much for the shoutout. it's an amazing place and can be a bit overwhelming. actually it can be extremely overwhelming. remember manny is also a damn good tour guide and hes like a body-guard also. hes well known in the dominican republic. if you want to hang out at the clubs, he will gladly take you and stay by your side the entire time you are at the club. francicso is a hot mess, but in a very good way. tell him you are friends with BLACK SUPERMAN!! francisco will take very good care of you. just dont go to the prison with him and if you want to go to the house in country use manny. the guy with the house and manny are like father and son. plus manny has a comfortable van to drive you to the house. i hope you have a shit load of fun and if you have any more questions, feel free to reach out, my friend. be safe!!!!

 

Im in Rio now and boy do i have a lot of hot pics and videos to post by noon on Monday.... 

[SolaceSoul]

59 minutes ago, paborn said:

To be frank. my suspicion of their perception of me has always been a hinderance to my reaching out.

If I understand @Riobard‘s purposely obtuse post, he is suggesting that the reason the group of loud, obnoxious, black Americans that often congregate at Pacos don’t relate to, interact with or trust him (and by extension, you) is because he’s/you’re white / not black. 

This is a false assumption, because (1) I’m not white, as are none of my travel partners and none of us would enjoy spending time and energy on them (whether abroad or Stateside), and (2) there are plenty of other black tourists or expats who I, you, and possibly even Riobard could enjoy mingling with.

For me, it’s not that group (or any like it). 

And it isn’t “hate”. It’s self-preservation and safety. Hate implies that energy is consumed over them. 

There are travelers like this wherever I go. I refer to them as “Ugly Americans” and I always avoid them like The Bubonic Plague. They add nothing to my travels and I’m sure that my absence from their sewing circle of pecking hens subtracts nothing from theirs. Somehow, I still manage to meet nice people — including hot local men. 

 

[paborn]

18 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

If I understand @Riobard‘s purposely obtuse post, he is suggesting that the reason the group of loud, obnoxious, black Americans that often congregate at Pacos don’t relate to, interact with or trust him (and by extension, you) is because he’s/you’re white / not black. 

This is a false assumption, because (1) I’m not white, as are none of my travel partners and none of us would enjoy spending time and energy on them (whether abroad or Stateside), and (2) there are plenty of other black tourists or expats who I, you, and possibly even Riobard could enjoy mingling with.

For me, it’s not that group (or any like it). 

And it isn’t “hate”. It’s self-preservation and safety. Hate implies that energy is consumed over them. 

There are travelers like this wherever I go. I refer to them as “Ugly Americans” and I always avoid them like The Bubonic Plague. They add nothing to my travels and I’m sure that my absence from their sewing circle of pecking hens subtracts nothing from theirs. Somehow, I still manage to meet nice people — including hot local men. 

 

No, not at all, I might have misunderstood . My reason is that they might perceive that I'm after their boys or as the above poster remarked getting their rolodex . It's like being the old guy walking into a gay bar - you can't even remark on the weather as the assumption is that your after their dicks, trying to "score". I took the Dahmer reference as a metaphor for preying on them thus a poor motive . However, now your comment opens up the KKK reference and I see what you mean. 

No, I know you are aware of the two expats I'm friends with so that was not it - both of them by the way avoid the place during the early evening as they live there and don't want the stigma. No, it's just that loud obnoxious "ugly Americans" are a plague to be avoided.

Riobard you really have to work on your prose style.

[SolaceSoul]

8 minutes ago, paborn said:

My reason is that they might perceive that I'm after their boys or as the above poster remarked getting their rolodex.

HA! I would hope they wouldn’t think that. There’s absolutely nothing special about what’s in their Rolodex. Anything hooking up with them is community property trade. 

[Riobard]

I was just joking, perhaps poorly, for exaggerated effect, like how welcome a Cullen (vampire) would be at a haemophilia support group. I realize there are many variables involved. 

As most would know, Dahmer's victims were predominantly young, likely marginalized, MSM African American. Opportunity over racial targetting, I think. 

I have found people of all backgrounds to be receptive, or not, to social reaching out. I have not witnessed any particular group of black gay men to behave nearly as obnoxiously as white groups I have seen and would avoid like the plague (just another mostly inocuous but perhaps subtly homonegative simile).

Perhaps due to lack of exposure, and it was not until my adult years that I first experienced any ethnic group outs ide of Caucasian and far-north First Nations, and well into adult years before any immersion in gay culture. 

Would an all African American reboot of Boys in the Band fly? I think it would feel disconnected without alteration, and I may be the worst person to judge the feasibility. 

In actuality, some one-on-one exchanges with American American men in Brazil and Dominican Republic have been possible and very interesting. Thing is, some of these same guys will recognize me and respond to a greeting when they are seated in a larger cluster, but do not introduce me or say to pull up a chair. There is a social order and there is a history of references among the members that would be lost on a newbie. It is my job to not hover and disrupt the continuity of their gabbing. 

However, a group starts small and grows. Therefore, the larger the membership, the greater the tendency for it to be rigidly circumscribed according to nation, race, what have you, that characterizes it. And throw in the dynamic of sex tourism where purchasers and inventory share the same diaspora origin. If excluded in part for being white, it is understandable. 

 

[Riobard]

25 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

HA! I would hope they wouldn’t think that. There’s absolutely nothing special about what’s in their Rolodex. Anything hooking up with them is community property trade. 

I didn't really care much about being excluded, but it is fascinating to read more about it, particularly since two African American members have different takes on the value of mingling therein, irrespective of racial background of the would-be entrant. . 

But now perhaps I should feel offended at not having been made to feel more welcomed there! That my capacity for snotty bitchiness did not evidently pass muster?!

I wasn't the one commenting on Rolodex or alluding to cramping access to trade. There may be a little mixup in the thread's who's who. 

[Riobard]

"Ugly American" has interesting provenance. The book's eponymous protaganist is depicted as culturally sensitive but physically unattractive, in contrast to the impeccably groomed bureaucrats we would view as the xenophobic, etc. Now a widely enough appropriated term as to transcend the contradiction. Also sometimes confused with Greene's The Quiet American. 

[paborn]

9 minutes ago, Riobard said:

 

In actuality, some one-on-one exchanges with American American men in Brazil and Dominican Republic have been possible and very interesting. Thing is, some of these same guys will recognize me and respond to a greeting when they are seated in a larger cluster, but do not introduce me or say to pull up a chair. There is a social order and there is a history of references among the members that would be lost on a newbie. It is my job to not hover and disrupt the continuity of their gabbing. 

However, a group starts small and grows. Therefore, the larger the membership, the greater the tendency for it to be rigidly circumscribed according to nation, race, what have you, that characterizes it. And throw in the dynamic of sex tourism where purchasers and inventory share the same diaspora origin. If excluded in part for being white, it is understandable. 

 

Just a couple of thoughts. When you see the larger group and someone responds have you considered going over and saying, "hit guys may I join you" or the classic " is this a private party or can anyone join" or the ever popular, "Hey guys how about I buy a round."? Just a thought that your not really trying very hard.

Secondly, you sound like.a sociologist playing with his data. A group ,may start small but in my practical life experience in a diverse society they tend to become more diverse unless actively managed to remain non-diverse, In short, it's not a tendency but a desire. Your remark "throw in the dynamic of sex tourism where purchasers and inventory share the same diaspora origin. If excluded in part for being white, it is understandable." is just not defensible. Connecting sex tourism and "diaspora origin" is fallacious. The Hallmark of sex tourism is the exchange of money for sex and has nothing to do with racial identity. The boy bars of Bangkok are part of tourism and the boys go with anyone with very rare exceptions . The boy bars of Tokyo are for the Japanese home market and are notoriously hard to penetrate for anyone not Japanese. There are very few that will let a tourist in.

Actually, I have read Dominican history and culture for years and while they recognize African heritage  they include Taino and European ancestry and consider their Ethnic group to be part of the Hispanic world. Haitians are Black, Dominicans, with rare exceptions, use a host of other names for infinite variations in skin tone. There is a great series of modern books that explore in personal stories the odyssey of Dominicans who never realized that anyone would consider them to be black until they went to New York. A great many of the boys would be upset to hear you give such a simple clarification. This is not racism, this is a better understanding of Dominican culture, it is more open to variations - is there racism in the DR - yes, but you would very likely miss the subtleties.

I don't say this to be argumentative I just think your not fully understanding Dominican culture and society.