Warren open to decriminalizing Sex Workers

[TotallyOz]

She may just get my vote!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/06/20/warren-im-open-decriminalizing-sex-work/1514029001/

[AdamSmith]

Warren is sophisticated and nuanced enough to get the difference between sex work and trafficking.

She now has my vote locked in.

And she has the legislative procedural chops to get it done.

This and many other things.

In sharp contrast to Bernie. Who points the way, like Lewis & Clarke, but needs a Pocahontas to actually guide us there.

[mvan1]

1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

She may just get my vote!

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/06/20/warren-im-open-decriminalizing-sex-work/1514029001/

Oz, you have a good memory. 

It was Warren who co-authored the bill that helped close down Craigs list and other sites that escorts used.  

Is that women getting like Trump?   

The bill was signed into law by that Trump freak last April 11, 2018 - 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/human-trafficking-banking-bill-sex-workers_n_5b045577e4b0740c25e5efd1

"A new law that shuttered websites used by voluntary sex workers to screen clients has already forced some to risk their lives by returning to the streets to find business." 

"But the broad bipartisan alliance that passed that legislation last month isn’t done. Now, Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), who both voted for the first bill, are pushing a proposal in the Senate that would impose similar restrictions on sex workers’ bank accounts — a move that sex workers say could further endanger their income, safety and lives."

 

Edited June 21, 2019 by mvan1

[AdamSmith]

27 minutes ago, mvan1 said:

Oz, you have a good memory. 

It was Warren who co-authored the bill that helped close down Craigs list and other sites that escorts used.  

Is that women getting coo coo like Trump?   

The bill was signed into law by that Trump freak last April 11 - 

"A new law that shuttered websites used by voluntary sex workers to screen clients has already forced some to risk their lives by returning to the streets to find business." 

"But the broad bipartisan alliance that passed that legislation last month isn’t done. Now, Sens. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Marco Rubio (R-Fla.), who both voted for the first bill, are pushing a proposal in the Senate that would impose similar restrictions on sex workers’ bank accounts — a move that sex workers say could further endanger their income, safety and lives."

 

Thank you. This show their true intent.

[mvan1]

6 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

Thank you. This show their true intent.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/human-trafficking-banking-bill-sex-workers_n_5b045577e4b0740c25e5efd1

[AdamSmith]

I will say this: Unlike most pols, Warren seems open to data & evidence, & willing to change her mind in light lthereof.

We shall see.

[mvan1]

22 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

I will say this: Unlike most pols, Warren seems open to data & evidence, & willing to change her mind in light lthereof.

We shall see.

There is an old idiom that goes - - 

A leopard does not changes its spots but it sometimes covers the spots to get what it wants - - - - -

That woman was so hateful against prostitutes.  As I already provided, she and Rubio co-sponsored a bill to force banks to close the bank accounts of prostitutes or "suspected" prostitutes. 

How hateful can one be?  Although she says she would be open to decriminalize prostitution, remember it was only a couple of years ago when she and Rubio tried that hideous stunt to get sex workers to lose their bank accounts.  

Thank goodness the rest of Congress had more sense than she and Rubio and let the project drop. 

Here is the article again in case someone missed it:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/human-trafficking-banking-bill-sex-workers_n_5b045577e4b0740c25e5efd1

Someone should ask her in an open interview about the discrepancy of her present claims contrasted her bill to strip away bank accounts from prostitutes.    

[AdamSmith]

3 hours ago, mvan1 said:

There is an old idiom that goes - - 

A leopard does not changes its spots but it sometimes covers the spots to get what it wants - - - - -

That woman was so hateful against prostitutes.  As I already provided, she and Rubio co-sponsored a bill to force banks to close the bank accounts of prostitutes or "suspected" prostitutes. 

How hateful can one be?  Although she says she would be open to decriminalize prostitution, remember it was only a couple of years ago when she and Rubio tried that hideous stunt to get sex workers to lose their bank accounts.  

Thank goodness the rest of Congress had more sense than she and Rubio and let the project drop. 

Here is the article again in case someone missed it:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/human-trafficking-banking-bill-sex-workers_n_5b045577e4b0740c25e5efd1

Someone should ask her in an open interview about the discrepancy of her present claims contrasted her bill to strip away bank accounts from prostitutes.    

Very good background info.

There is a good deal in addition that I don’t like about Warren. But nonetheless I think she might be the most effective & practical way forward out of several of our current messes.

[Latbear4blk]

Both, Kamala Harris and EW have changed their previous stand. I do believe that people can change and their mindsets and opinions evolve. Which does not mean I am going to believe them just because they say so.

This week I have sent requests of information on this issue to Mayor Pete, Warren, and Harris campaigns. Those are the three candidates I am following with the most interest, considering perhaps even volunteering my time to work for them. Let's see if I get any evidence other than just friendly statements in interviews and social media. 

https://ilikepinga.com/2019/03/01/decriminalizing-sex-work/

 

[Riobard]

Don't get too excited yet. There are three main components: advertising, selling, and purchasing.

The Nordic Model, adopted by Canada and several Euro nations, has focused on decriminalizing one component, the provision by commercial sex workers. 

In fact, previously it was illegal in Canada to communicate for the purposes of prostitution; it is currently illegal to buy sex, thus imposing the criminalization on clients. 

[TotallyOz]

We all change our positions over time. I want prostitution legal but taxed. What two adults do is up to them.  I am glad the online newspapers are gone as they were trafficking in underage. The way around that would have been to have things legal and big penalties for anything underage. I miss them as I found great guys there. But, they were not regulating themselves very well. When I ran a NYC agency, we kept anything underage out of the business. The newspaper rags were not doing that and were not trying hard to do that.

Anyway, I'll take Elizabeth on her word. What do the other candidates have to say on this? 

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

We all change our positions over time.

Let us never forget that Bill Clinton signed DOMA and made it law. Thank God it was struck down. Thank God people evolve.

1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

I want prostitution legal but taxed.

I want it legal, taxed, and regulated. Sex workers need to have their health status certified on a reasonable schedule. Regulation has the ability to save many lives and help to control the addicted. Some people in the sex business are their own worst enemy.

1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

I am glad the online newspapers are gone as they were trafficking in underage.

Sex trafficking is a serious issue that spoils a lot of fun for our community. I hate that it somehow gets linked to us. I don't know anyone who supports sex trafficking of any kind. Unfortunately, there are foreign players in the trafficking arena, truly nefarious creatures, who took full advantage of websites like Craigslist.

I'm not happy CL is gone, however. CL was the easiest way to meet adult couples who enjoy fucking with a third party watching. This is one of my favorite fetishes and the closing of CL has made voyeurism more difficult to coordinate.

[mvan1]

2 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

We all change our positions over time. I want prostitution legal but taxed. What two adults do is up to them.  I am glad the online newspapers are gone as they were trafficking in underage. The way around that would have been to have things legal and big penalties for anything underage. I miss them as I found great guys there. But, they were not regulating themselves very well. When I ran a NYC agency, we kept anything underage out of the business. The newspaper rags were not doing that and were not trying hard to do that.

Anyway, I'll take Elizabeth on her word. What do the other candidates have to say on this? 

I agree with you in that people can change their position over time.

However, Warren and Rubio teamed together to co-sponsor a bill to close bank accounts of anyone being a sex worker or "suspected" of being one.   What does a bank account have to do with sex work?

Can you relate to the amount of time those two spent on their proposed bill to force banks to close the accounts of sex workers. 

The issue is not merely their time spent.  Something like those two planned is down right mean and hurtful. 

Can you imagine if your bank accounts were closed?

Can any reader here find any logic in closing the bank accounts of sex workers or those suspected of sex work?

Again, the bill did not get taken seriously by those who could vote on the hideous proposed law.  

For those who want a reminder of what Warren and Rubio tried to do to sex workers, here is an article again:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/human-trafficking-banking-bill-sex-workers_n_5b045577e4b0740c25e5efd1

[TotallyOz]

3 minutes ago, mvan1 said:

I agree with you in that people can change their position over time.

However, Warren and Rubio teamed together to co-sponsor a bill to close bank accounts of anyone being a sex worker or "suspected" of being one.   What does a bank account have to do with sex work?

Can you relate to the amount of time those two spent on their proposed bill to force banks to close the accounts of sex workers. 

The issue is not merely their time spent.  Something like those two planned is down right mean and hurtful. 

Can you imagine if your bank accounts were closed?

Can any reader here find any logic in closing the bank accounts of sex workers or those suspected of sex work?

Again, the bill did not get taken seriously by those who could vote on the hideous proposed law.  

For those who want a reminder of what Warren and Rubio tried to do to sex workers, here is an article again:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/human-trafficking-banking-bill-sex-workers_n_5b045577e4b0740c25e5efd1

The bill aimed at trafficking. The full ramifications are unknown.

I had Paypal many years back close accounts related to porn without warning and it kept tons of people's money.

I find no logic in closing accounts for sex workers. To me that is different that sex traffickers. Not sure what the exact words of the bill were or the intent. But, it wasn't passed.

Also, remember this was 2018 and now it is 2019.  A full year has gone by and nothing happened with the bill. I read your article each time you posted it. Each time I drew the same conclusion and that it is was meant to stop human trafficking and not sex workers but the sex workers feared it would affect them. What am I missing?

[mvan1]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, because this matter happened more than a year ago.  

However, as you recall, once upon a time, there was an adult site called rentboy.  It had been in existence for many years.   In the years that I looked at the site, I never saw any children advertised on that site.  I also never saw any trafficking. 

Despite no child porn or trafficking, the owner and some of the employees were arrested.  After a few days, the employees were let out of jail. However, the government seized all the money of the owner which made it impossible for him to defend himself (without money to hire an attorney).  That type of government behavior is rather extreme in a democratic country.  

Considering the above example plus Craigs List closing its personal ads (which I occasionally read) I never saw any trafficking or children on Craigs List either. 

Therefore, I am not clear why Warren and Rubio wanted to have the bank accounts closed for sex workers that they repeatedly and erroneously called traffickers.  The bill they put together did not isolate child porn. 

If you go back to the bills (that were never sent to the House for a vote) they were quite explicit in going after anyone who advertised sex for money. 

Anyway, I am happy for you that you have Warren to look forward to as a contender against Trump. 

Anyone who would will cause Trump to be defeated and driven out of office is my hero regardless of whether I agree with their prior deeds.  

Peace 

 

[TotallyOz]

I agree with your last point in that I'll ride any horse that will defeat Trump.  I like Mayor Pete and I hope he gets the nomination. I don't like Biden, well, I do but think his time has gone, but I'd still vote for him.  I totally dislike the one of the candidates from NY but I'd vote for her as well.

I loved Rentboy but the first time I saw them in the Gay Pride parade with the advertisement biggest whorehouse in the world, I was shocked as there were NYC cops at every corner. It was unabashedly in your face and it brought attention to them. I would assume they were under scrutiny for years. Please don't get me wrong. I love what the site did. But, to be all out there was a choice.

I think the only think you and I disagree with is what would have happened in their bill to sex workers bank accounts. I didn't read it to say they would be shut.  I may not understand the bill enough to see that. I could see Rubio wanting that and to shut down any gay person's account as well. But, I didn't see that as the result of that bill.

 

[Latbear4blk]

We are all aware that both, Harris and Warren have a well recorded history of unfriendly attitude towards sex work and the adult entertainment industry. The good think is that they both seem to have changed, or at least to be evolving from their previous stands. I just need more than public statements dropped in interviews and conversations. Specially from Warren, I want a plan.

[RockHardNYC]

10 hours ago, mvan1 said:

I don't want to beat a dead horse

But you are beating it, and your argument is weak.

10 hours ago, mvan1 said:

However, as you recall, once upon a time, there was an adult site called rentboy.  It had been in existence for many years.   In the years that I looked at the site, I never saw any children advertised on that site.  I also never saw any trafficking. 

Children aren't the only people being trafficked. All it takes is one young adult, and the party is over.

4 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

I loved Rentboy but the first time I saw them in the Gay Pride parade with the advertisement biggest whorehouse in the world, I was shocked as there were NYC cops at every corner. It was unabashedly in your face and it brought attention to them.

It's no secret, I did not love Rentboy. I did not admire Jeffrey Hurant. I thought he was an awful business owner. "Unabashedly in your face" is an understatement. He was begging and bating conservative lawmakers to investigate and dig deeper with the most flagrant ad campaigns a pimp and peddler could muster.

If your profit dollars give you cheap and cocky confidence, and you want to shove your arrogance and hubris in the face of lawmakers, then you need to eat the cake you baked.

Why should Jeffrey Hurant not be treated like Paul Manafort? Once an investigation is opened (even under the guise of trafficking), tax evasion and money laundering automatically get thrown on the table. They got him.

Hurant is solely responsible for the mess he found himself in. He was greedy, selfish, and cocky. He did not protect his employees or his escorts who were supporting his website with monthly payments. I never understood why many in the gay community looked up to this guy and wished to place him on some undeserving throne. A lot of people don't think much of themselves.

[mvan1]

2 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

snip 

Children aren't the only people being trafficked. All it takes is one young adult, and the party is over.

 

Please furnish a citation that confirms a "young adult" was included in legal proceedings against rentboy - 

I have never seen any credible accusation of trafficking on rentboy or any young adult charge that was litigated. 

In the initial accusation against rentboy, the zealous female prosecutor made up charges to make the matter a sensation to the public.  

However, at conclusion of the prosecution, there was no charge of trafficking.  The final charges were prostitution.  Not trafficking.   

[RockHardNYC]

@mvan1

No snip, but you're still beating a dead horse.

You're also missing the point. It does not matter if an investigation ever confirms trafficking. Once you have the full-throated attention of law enforcement -- after you've slapped their faces out of a stupor, publicly calling out their blindness and stupidity -- they have their method of gaining access and doing costly harm. In Hurant's case, they sought revenge.

19 hours ago, mvan1 said:

The final charges were prostitution.  Not trafficking.

It does not matter. They got their man and they shut his big mouth and they shut down his money. Rentboy and Hurant are over.

As for Craigslist, I can't prove there was "trafficking" on their NYC sex pages. However, there were plenty of ads showing photos of young Asian and Russian guys (who looked like boys), and when you answered the ad, you were greeted by an emissary. Very suspicious. I don't doubt the presence of trafficking wherever sex work can be advertised.

[AdamSmith]

18 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

As for Craigslist, I can't prove there was "trafficking" on their NYC sex pages. However, there were plenty of ads showing photos of young Asian and Russian guys (who looked like boys), and when you answered the ad, you were greeted by an emissary. Very suspicious. I don't doubt the presence of trafficking wherever sex work can be advertised.

Again, to agree:

When a thing looks like something, it almost always is that thing.

[RockHardNYC]

5 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

When a thing looks like something, it almost always is that thing.

And the funny thing is, when the emissary wrote, he/she used the same words with the same voice each time, no matter the ad. It was clear to me only one person knew how to write in English, and the writing covered several models with ads. I'm not into the teen/twink look, but I inquired several times out of curiosity.

[AdamSmith]

Hollywood Madam: Want to stop human trafficking? Legalize consensual sex for money.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/27/robert-kraft-affidavit-details-threesome-sandwich-indictment-police-report-column/2982383002/

[mvan1]

2 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

Hollywood Madam: Want to stop human trafficking? Legalize consensual sex for money.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/voices/2019/02/27/robert-kraft-affidavit-details-threesome-sandwich-indictment-police-report-column/2982383002/

Speaking of legalizing prostitution -

Here is a clip from an old movie with Marlene Dietrich playing a Madam and David Bowie playing a hustler (gigolo).  In this scene he is being recruited by Dietrich to be a hustler.

It is a great film if anyone is interested in seeing how prostitution works when it is not controlled by police involvement.  

 

[RockHardNYC]

14 hours ago, mvan1 said:

if anyone is interested in seeing how prostitution works when it is not controlled by police involvement

Too bad we can't live in the movies.