Do not Post any photos

[Tomcal]

Photos posted on this site are being shared with sauna guys!  There is a member here that has been doing it for at least 2 months.  One of our regular posters was contacted while he was in Rio yesterday to say that the guy had seen the photo and even thou it did not show his face or him naked he was upset!  This is the second time in the last 6 weeks this has happened.  So it has to be a member on here who is doing itl

I am going to stop posting  period, and go back to sharing with guys I know personally and only correspond through email.   there is always some jerk that ruins it for everyone else.

Edited December 15, 2018 by tomcal

[wncdemcub]

31 minutes ago, Tomcal said:

Photos posted on this site are being shared with sauna guys!  There is a member here that has been doing it for at least 2 months.  One of our regular posters was contacted while he was in Rio yesterday to say that the guy had seen the photo and even thou it did not show his face or him naked he was upset!  This is the second time in the last 6 weeks this has happened.  So it has to be a member on here who is doing itl

I am going to stop posting  period, and go back to sharing with guys I know personally and only correspond through email.   there is always some jerk that ruins it for everyone else.

Wow whoever this jerk is thanks a heap!

Edited December 15, 2018 by wncdemcub

[RockHardNYC]

This thread may be over my head since I haven't much interest here, but I don't get the complaint. Did someone actually think/believe that photos posted on the internet were somehow going to be kept private?

I'm not sure what photos this thread is pointing to, but if anyone of you are posting private photos of "sauna guys" without their written permission, then I would argue the guy doing the posting is the guy lacking ethics and integrity. Just because you have a camera on your phone (or anywhere else) does not mean you have the right to publish a private capture anywhere you wish.

I fully understand the pleasure that comes from secret, surreptitious recordings, especially those of a sexy nature. Of course, most of us enjoy sneaking a peek. That does not make the action ethical, proper, or respectable.

If you wish to take a photo of someone with the intent to share it with others, whether publicly or privately, but especially on the internet, the ethical way to do it is to ask the person's permission. Headless or not.

[Riobard]

RockHardNYC, the sources are sometimes but rarely in situ shots that are the most likely to have been allowed with some degree of consent, predicated on discretion and personal use.

Otherwise, the images tend to be from Facebook, Instagram, and Whatsapp profile pic, Grindr, etc. They are often simple to unearth. I would be gobsmacked if a subject consented to their social media photos being posted in the context of commercial sex work. Perhaps a few exceptions, such as fellows prolific in MSM porn ... they may be less burdened by the idea of their unveiling.

Few of the working guys truly grasp that their performative labour exposes them to the caprice of being outed through various fora, via punters' whims. Unlike providers that advertise, they seem not to be aware of the network of websites in which reviews and comments are posted. 

It is implicit in the transaction that mutual anonymity be honoured. 

A few guys are waking up and privatizing their socia media. 

It is tempting to override the contract and think to oneself: I can share this image with a number of sympaticos, I have the skills to alter an image to make it less identifiable ... I have done this myself. It was nothing short of self-aggrandizing showing off, no matter what other justification I attempted to cobble together. 

You are correct, the ethical bottom line is informed consent. Any other attempt to legitimize is preposterously naïve. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Riobard

[Badboy81]

3 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

This thread may be over my head since I haven't much interest here, but I don't get the complaint. Did someone actually think/believe that photos posted on the internet were somehow going to be kept private?

I'm not sure what photos this thread is pointing to, but if anyone of you are posting private photos of "sauna guys" without their written permission, then I would argue the guy doing the posting is the guy lacking ethics and integrity. Just because you have a camera on your phone (or anywhere else) does not mean you have the right to publish a private capture anywhere you wish.

I fully understand the pleasure that comes from secret, surreptitious recordings, especially those of a sexy nature. Of course, most of us enjoy sneaking a peek. That does not make the action ethical, proper, or respectable.

If you wish to take a photo of someone with the intent to share it with others, whether publicly or privately, but especially on the internet, the ethical way to do it is to ask the person's permission. Headless or not.

Well said....totally agree

[Badboy81]

5 hours ago, Tomcal said:

Photos posted on this site are being shared with sauna guys!  There is a member here that has been doing it for at least 2 months.  One of our regular posters was contacted while he was in Rio yesterday to say that the guy had seen the photo and even thou it did not show his face or him naked he was upset!  This is the second time in the last 6 weeks this has happened.  So it has to be a member on here who is doing itl

I am going to stop posting  period, and go back to sharing with guys I know personally and only correspond through email.   there is always some jerk that ruins it for everyone else.

Didn't we just have this huge issue earlier this year about photos?

This seems to be reoccurring...

[Badboy81]

I give details on my escapades but never photos or names...regardless if the guy is working to make money, unless he says he is okay with having his photos or names out there for the public, have some discretion and privacy about your encounters...

I get the point of the forum is to share just there is a such thing as too much info, especially if you havent checked to see if it is okay with said guy....

[tassojunior]

I assume this is a Brazil issue? I post plenty of candid photos of Prague guys but they are advertised escorts and porn actors and welcome the photos and publicity.

[Riobard]

Tasso, unlike CZE, in Brazil there is minimal crossover between sauna brothel workers and escort ads, an apparently growing but modest crossover between brothel providers and implicit or even explicit app profiles (eg, Grindr), and nonpurposeful crossover between brothel escorts and their (usually solo) porn roles. 

[Riobard]

Recurrence of this theme: In a few weeks or months time, do not be shocked if an attempt to contract honour-system 100% discretion among 31,500 viewers logging in at some 250 per diem is made. 

[RockHardNYC]

4 hours ago, Riobard said:

the images tend to be from Facebook, Instagram, and Whatsapp profile pic, Grindr, etc.

If the images are already on the internet (assuming they were put there by the person in the photo), then my ethical argument does not apply. If anyone deliberately puts an image on the internet, then it's open season. The image cannot be controlled. (Although there are digital markers.) Anyone who does not know that is either an under-age child or someone missing a brain.

 

4 hours ago, Riobard said:

I would be gobsmacked if a subject consented to their social media photos being posted in the context of commercial sex work.

You don't need consent in this situation. Read above. The response to anyone who complains that their social media photos are being used elsewhere deserves a bucket of ice water in their face. "Wake up!" is the response I would offer. If someone does not want their internet image to appear on a website, no matter the subject, then it's on them to never post an image to the internet in the first place.

[Latbear4blk]

5 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

This thread may be over my head since I haven't much interest here, but I don't get the complaint. Did someone actually think/believe that photos posted on the internet were somehow going to be kept private?

I'm not sure what photos this thread is pointing to, but if anyone of you are posting private photos of "sauna guys" without their written permission, then I would argue the guy doing the posting is the guy lacking ethics and integrity. Just because you have a camera on your phone (or anywhere else) does not mean you have the right to publish a private capture anywhere you wish.

I fully understand the pleasure that comes from secret, surreptitious recordings, especially those of a sexy nature. Of course, most of us enjoy sneaking a peek. That does not make the action ethical, proper, or respectable.

If you wish to take a photo of someone with the intent to share it with others, whether publicly or privately, but especially on the internet, the ethical way to do it is to ask the person's permission. Headless or not.

Excellent point.

[numazu]

7 hours ago, Tomcal said:

I am going to stop posting  period, and go back to sharing with guys I know personally and only correspond through email.   there is always some jerk that ruins it for everyone else.

Too bad @Tomcal. Your experience and insight are always needed in the forums. Your reports are the primary reason I've ventured out to Brazil in the first place. I hope you reconsider.

I guess this is a reason why I don't post *too many* photos of the boys I've met in Brazil. If I do post, its photos that are readily available on the internet so it can't be traced back to me. 

It's a good point tho. If a boy freely gives out his photos to his clients, or if he has a public Instagram that he shares to anyone who asks, there is hardly an expectation of privacy.

Photos taken by clients and shared online are another matter. The debate is still out if consent is needed to post personally taken photos in public. Some argue that the publicity will net them more customers. Some will say that it's a violation of their privacy. I just don't do it *too much*. 

Still, don't be a jerk guys. Don't show the photos to the boys. I do not want the photo fun to end in this forum. I am sure you guys don't want it to end either. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by numazu

[RockHardNYC]

7 minutes ago, numazu1 said:

The debate is still out if consent is needed to post personally taken photos in public.

If there is a debate, it's among people ignorant of local laws. In the U.S., you are not allowed to publish a person's face if the face is reasonably recognizable. If you're not sure, a signed model release can prevent a lawsuit. Many producers will simply blur out a face to skirt legal issues if shooting in a crowd. You see this all the time.

The general rule is simple: if you have a photo of a model that does not exist on the internet, then you are ethically and perhaps legally required to get that model's permission to publish it anywhere, no matter if money is involved or not.

[Riobard]

1 hour ago, RockHardNYC said:

If the images are already on the internet (assuming they were put there by the person in the photo), then my ethical argument does not apply. If anyone deliberately puts an image on the internet, then it's open season. The image cannot be controlled. (Although there are digital markers.) Anyone who does not know that is either an under-age child or someone missing a brain.

 

You don't need consent in this situation. Read above. The response to anyone who complains that their social media photos are being used elsewhere deserves a bucket of ice water in their face. "Wake up!" is the response I would offer. If someone does not want their internet image to appear on a website, no matter the subject, then it's on them to never post an image to the internet in the first place.

I think that there is a deficiency in awareness among these guys that impairs their connecting of the dots. They are naïve and, perhaps, overly trusting. 

It is not clearly unethical to either avoid alerting them about the risks of self-posting SocMe pics eventually appropriated by customers for illustration here, or to facilitate upticking their grasp of such risks. 

The point is that mishaps along their learning curve related to the prudence of shutting down all public media preparatory to prostitution and to getting ahead of its occupational hazards are inevitably going to lead to upset and, at times, confrontation. And then, reservations about posting images here for whatever reasons posters dream up. 

So, help them maintain their ignorance, on the one hand or, on the other hand, assist in building an informational protectorate (ie, alert them to protestable shit that happens). These seem diametrically opposed to me. Perspective about these ideas is largely driven by personal values. Good luck achieving consensus. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by Riobard
Spell

[floridarob]

Doesn't mean it is even a member......these boards can be accessed without signing in, no?

[tassojunior]

Again though, my Czech friends who also do porn and escort, are really friends and are fine with me posting vacation etc photos of them. The Brazil situation with sauna boys who keep that life secret is different. 

[RockHardNYC]

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

I think that there is a deficiency in awareness among these guys that impairs their connecting of the dots. They are naïve and, perhaps, overly trusting. 

It seems to me this "deficiency in awareness" and "trust" are issues with anyone using social media and maybe the entire internet. Most Facebook users got screwed and they don't even care. That's how dumb people want to be.

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

So, help them maintain their ignorance, on the one hand or, on the other hand, assist in building an informational protectorate (ie, alert them to protestable shit that happens).

Well, if you care about your fellow man, then alerting someone, giving them a teaching moment, is a way to possibly garner good Karma. I am always in the company of newbies to show business. Because I am a caring person, I forever seem to be alerting someone about the perils of this and that.

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

Perspective about these ideas is largely driven by personal values. Good luck achieving consensus.

Consensus is difficult to achieve, especially when the subject is sex. Many people don't respect sex work, and they feel sex workers are less deserving. If you feel this way, then you're not likely to care about a sex worker's feelings or their legal rights. Copyright law doesn't care what the person does for a living. If you own your image, you have rights in the U.S.

The law knows how to differentiate between advertising and editorial usage. I imagine that most of the images posted on this board fall into "Fair Use" category. As long as Oz is not charging a fee to view these images, no one is making money off of them. That might explain why Daddy prefers "donations." It bypasses a lot of legal responsibility.

Edited December 15, 2018 by RockHardNYC

[demedici]

1 hour ago, floridarob said:

Doesn't mean it is even a member......these boards can be accessed without signing in, no?

No, I think you have to sign in to see the photos but all it takes is an email address. I stopped posting non public photos of anyone's face a long long time ago on the public side of the forum. What really disappoints me is that someone also shared, twice, photos from the members only club that @tomcal set up. There is something fun about sharing a bit of your experience with other travelers and also seeing whom they met in the hopes you'll see them in your next trip to Brazil or wherever. But Tom is right, fool me once shame on me.

I won't post any pictures going forward.

Edited December 15, 2018 by demedici

[Riobard]

Demedici, I think you mean "... twice, shame on me."

[Riobard]

If it was one of the members-only clubs, why is this discussion not restricted to that group!? (A rhetorical question)

Since the general readership is not privy to the scope of images posted there. 

The only thing a private club does is delay the inevitable breach of privacy, viz law of averages, in terms of the discretion that the average sex worker hopes for. 

I thought that private clubs were for circumscribed interest, not so much to keep info contained. 

A similar case in point exists within the local venues. There are clients who engage with you socially and inquisitively without obsessing about costs or rating tricks. Alternatively, there are one-trick pony customers whose social capability is reduced to objectifying programa guys and rating their experiences with them, without sussing out your own MO. And so offended when I demur. 

If I wanted a garoto to be aware of some version of my impressions of him, I would blab to a peer in the latter category. 

 

 

[SolaceSoul]

6 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

If the images are already on the internet (assuming they were put there by the person in the photo), then my ethical argument does not apply. If anyone deliberately puts an image on the internet, then it's open season. The image cannot be controlled. (Although there are digital markers.) Anyone who does not know that is either an under-age child or someone missing a brain.

 

You don't need consent in this situation. Read above. The response to anyone who complains that their social media photos are being used elsewhere deserves a bucket of ice water in their face. "Wake up!" is the response I would offer. If someone does not want their internet image to appear on a website, no matter the subject, then it's on them to never post an image to the internet in the first place.

Since it’s open season on any photos posted on social media, perhaps I should just encourage my sauna worker / garoto / escort / hustler friends to post the photos of their clients.that they found on WhatsApp / Facebook / Instagram / LinkedIn.

What’s good for the goose...

Edited December 15, 2018 by SolaceSoul

[SolaceSoul]

5 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

In the U.S., you are not allowed to publish a person's face if the face is reasonably recognizable. If you're not sure, a signed model release can prevent a lawsuit. Many producers will simply blur out a face to skirt legal issues if shooting in a crowd. You see this all the time.

The right of privacy laws extend beyond mere facial recognition. There are posters here who are posting photos of garotos with blurred faces but their bodies are easily recognizable (unique tattoos and physical structure). 

[RockHardNYC]

20 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

perhaps I should just encourage my sauna worker / garoto / escort / hustler friends to post the photos of their clients.that they found on WhatsApp / Facebook / Instagram / LinkedIn.

I'm all for fairness, but the paying customer is the one with cash in his wallet. When providing a paid service, it's never a good idea to bite the hand that feeds. So I would argue, posting photos of customers is BAD business practice. The mark of someone to AVOID. Any escort who is known to post photos of customers would be X-ed from my list, no matter what the escort's issue is. AVOID like the plague.

11 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

There are posters here who are posting photos of garotos with blurred faces but their bodies are easily recognizable (unique tattoos and physical structure). 

Copyright law does extend beyond recognizable faces, but I sincerely doubt headless body infractions end up argued in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not aware of a body case filed and won. Let's not forget, it costs money to sue for copyright infringement. Most sex workers are not looking to spend hard-earned money on a lawyer.

Edited December 15, 2018 by RockHardNYC

[SolaceSoul]

26 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

I'm all for fairness, but the paying customer is the one with cash in his wallet. When providing a paid service, it's never a good idea to bite the hand that feeds. So I would argue, posting photos of customers is BAD business practice. The mark of someone to AVOID. Any escort who is known to post photos of customers would be X-ed from my list, no matter what the escort's issue is. AVOID like the plague.

You’d have NO idea which escort / garoto posted the photo. After all, it was acquired from social media and ANYONE has access to it. 

So, some of these posters who are so quick to post photos of working guys without their advance permission probably could use a taste of their own medicine.