The Other Forum Closing

[RockHardNYC]

1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

Nice. There is a whole site that he started.  Check it out: http://hooboy.com

[RockHardNYC]

If you mention Boytoy at the other site, you risk being banned. That's been the case for a long time.

[Latbear4blk]

The situation has probably changed with time. I have mentioned several times boytoy at the other site, without any consequences. My honest opinion is that Daddy's is the best resource for American escorts related issues, and Boytoy has that place for international escorts. This opinion has been shared multiple times without suffering any consequences. I even recommended everyone to come and sign up here during the closing. It is true that over there there are not only admin but also members with a negative attitude towards boytoy, and viceversa here. However I think time is healing the wounds. 

I started my connection with our subculture through Daddy's, and was always intrigued by that animosity. I finally joined here to research the history and found everything somewhere in the sandbox. Sad. I am glad I was not involved in that situation. Otherwise, I would probably be in the same situation many friends are now, unable to move on.

We are a very small community, stigmatized even by many LGBQT friends and always at risk of being targeted by law enforcement and policy making. I think it is time to move on and work together for our common goals. We should be looking for outside allies to lobby for a more sex positive, and sex work positive culture and legislation. Instead, we are bitching against each other.

I am sure I have been guilty many times, but I promise I will try to make a better job. 

[TotallyOz]

The point of both sites has been and always will be to encourage gay male escorts to make money and a place for men who hire them to have a safe place to talk, chat and learn. I think we have both accomplished that over the years.  I have always been glad there were multiple sites devoted to the love of escorts. It is one of my passions and thus why I will be around doing this for the long haul.

[Tartegogo]

44 minutes ago, Latbear4blk said:

The situation has probably changed with time. I have mentioned several times boytoy at the other site, without any consequences. My honest opinion is that Daddy's is the best resource for American escorts related issues, and Boytoy has that place for international escorts. This opinion has been shared multiple times without suffering any consequences. I even recommended everyone to come and sign up here during the closing. It is true that over there there are not only admin but also members with a negative attitude towards boytoy, and viceversa here. However I think time is healing the wounds. 

I started my connection with our subculture through Daddy's, and was always intrigued by that animosity. I finally joined here to research the history and found everything somewhere in the sandbox. Sad. I am glad I was not involved in that situation. Otherwise, I would probably be in the same situation many friends are now, unable to move on.

We are a very small community, stigmatized even by many LGBQT friends and always at risk of being targeted by law enforcement and policy making. I think it is time to move on and work together for our common goals. We should be looking for outside allies to lobby for a more sex positive, and sex work positive culture and legislation. Instead, we are bitching against each other.

I am sure I have been guilty many times, but I promise I will try to make a better job. 

I was also always intrigued by this anymosity too, and found out in some history in various places. 

I hope we can also move on.

Especially we need to move on from stating untruths like “mentioning boytoy on M4M gets you banned”. Maybe it used to, but it doesn’t now. I have done it several times.

I personally don’t feel any loyalty towards Guy Fawkes: whenever he writes, I find it dry and not particularly endearing (I never see him as one of us, tbh, just a necessary authority).

That is very different from Oz, whose stories and interests make him very much a punter that I can relate to, and also Oz is always being a nice guy (how do you do that, Oz? I can, for some time, but not forever!).

In any case, trashing the other site here or there just because it feels good to do so won’t raise my opinion of the person doing the trashing, quite the opposite. 

[Latbear4blk]

47 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

The point of both sites has been and always will be to encourage gay male escorts to make money and a place for men who hire them to have a safe place to talk, chat and learn. I think we have both accomplished that over the years.  I have always been glad there were multiple sites devoted to the love of escorts. It is one of my passions and thus why I will be around doing this for the long haul.

I am sick, just decided to take the day off. Besides, I just smoked my pipe. This is to warn you that I am probably in a Love & Peace hippy mood right now.

Sometimes it is about the momentum. Thinking of the socio-cultural-political context, of course we could be worse but we are already pretty low and perhaps it is time for a tide change. The political situation is horrible, I do not need to add anything about it, but we all are so focused on blaming Trump that we are missing the big picture. Beyond our routine mass shootings in the USA, we have now Americans killing other Americans because they are White, or Black, or (fill the ethnicity), or Christian, or Jewish, or Muslim, or (fill the religion), or gay, or trans, etc. It is not only in America, this reactionary hating trend started in Europe, all the shit starts in Europe. I am ignorant about the situation of the progressive field in Europe, but in he USA and in South America we have good reasons to be hopeful, despite our dark present of Trumps and Bolsonaros. 

I am feeling/wishing for a change in the tide, otherwise it would be like History going backwards. I do not think such a thing is possible. However, we (our tiny subculture) have a problem. A tide change does not guarantee anything to us. There is no shortage of liberals and progressive minded friends who are enemies of pornography, adult entertainment, and sex work. 

That is why I think it is of the upmost importance to be as united as possible, as visible and spoken up as possible. We should be trying to establish alliances with our mainstream brothers and sisters, with civil rights advocacy organizations, with the LGBQT lobby (they are not always our friends), with every open minded and sex positive social and political leaders. If we do not do that, the next wave could be worse instead of good news for us.

That is why I am wishing that after diving in deep shit; McCain and Bush deaths are inspiring a reflection that adds to the hopeful Blue Wave of new women/minorities leaders. I am wishing that both Daddy;s and Boytoy communities are able to move on and work together when friendly competition must be put aside; that everyone associated with the adult entertainment, pornoraphy, and sex work industries is able to come together some way, to lobby for our rights to exist and thrive and service and contribute to Common Wealth. I am wishing for this to be the momentum when our voice can be clear and our listeners ready to learn about who we really are. 

As I said, I think I am going through a melodramatic Love and Peace momentum. 

[RockHardNYC]

2 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

Especially we need to move on from stating untruths like “mentioning boytoy on M4M gets you banned”.

Misquoting members to suit your narrative is a surefire way to be have your thoughts and words dismissed by me. I welcome smart debate, challenge, even argument, but not if you just wish to behave like an inconsiderate troll. Selective editing to express an innocent thought or feeling is perfectly fine, but selective editing to make a contentious assertion or imply a lie is another version of rudeness and trolling. The most important word missing from the quote above is "risk." And it's a word that changes the intent and meaning of my words. Shame on you, Tartegogo.

If you don't think "risk" exists when mentioning Boytoy over there, then by all means do it. I dare you all. Not just one or two times, but next time try caps in a link: BOYTOY.COM. Then come here and let's talk about the experience.

Everyone is welcome to have all the Pollyanna views of the world you want to have, but they won't change the truth behind the players and the history of the first two escort review sites. The history might have been much more boring and inconsequential had Hooboy, the gay pioneer, left a will. But that didn't happen, and the rest is our history. Deal with it.

I've always been a fan of competition because it's usually good for the consumer. The more escort reviews the better for our pleasure and safety. Competition also has a way of keeping business owners on their toes. Less lazy, and more attention to detail. Personally, I know for a fact that I do better work when someone equally talented or smarter is challenging me.

Not everybody welcomes competition, and the reasons for that can be complicated. A common reason is money. Unless two businesses are equal in worth and assets, then the scales will be tilted and competition can have serious consequences. There is no indication that Oz will be hanging a donation sign anytime soon. (Even though I fully support an owner's desire to make money at this process.)

Snap your fingers and animosity (correct spelling) begone? I don't think so. Nobody can simply whitewash everything that has happened. Many of us can understand, even forgive, but some of us will never forget. Words, deeds, and actions have consequences, even in this Trump era.

[Latbear4blk]

44 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

Misquoting members to suit your narrative is a surefire way to be have your thoughts and words dismissed by me. I welcome smart debate, challenge, even argument, but not if you just wish to behave like an inconsiderate troll. Selective editing to express an innocent thought or feeling is perfectly fine, but selective editing to make a contentious assertion or imply a lie is another version of rudeness and trolling. The most important word missing from the quote above is "risk." And it's a word that changes the intent and meaning of my words. Shame on you, Tartegogo.

If you don't think "risk" exists when mentioning Boytoy over there, then by all means do it. I dare you all. Not just one or two times, but next time try caps in a link: BOYTOY.COM. Then come here and let's talk about the experience.

Everyone is welcome to have all the Pollyanna views of the world you want to have, but they won't change the truth behind the players and the history of the first two escort review sites. The history might have been much more boring and inconsequential had Hooboy, the gay pioneer, left a will. But that didn't happen, and the rest is our history. Deal with it.

I've always been a fan of competition because it's usually good for the consumer. The more escort reviews the better for our pleasure and safety. Competition also has a way of keeping business owners on their toes. Less lazy, and more attention to detail. Personally, I know for a fact that I do better work when someone equally talented or smarter is challenging me.

Not everybody welcomes competition, and the reasons for that can be complicated. A common reason is money. Unless two businesses are equal in worth and assets, then the scales will be tilted and competition can have serious consequences. There is no indication that Oz will be hanging a donation sign anytime soon. (Even though I fully support an owner's desire to make money at this process.)

Snap your fingers and animosity (correct spelling) begone? I don't think so. Nobody can simply whitewash everything that has happened. Many of us can understand, even forgive, but some of us will never forget. Words, deeds, and actions have consequences, even in this Trump era.

I mostly agree with your post. Just let me point out to this fact: I have mentioned boytoy several times, link included, without suffering any consequences. I do not remember whether or not I capitalized it, so I may not be meeting your high expectations. However, I mentioned this forum  (link included) in a complimenting way several times as an unchallenged resource for international escorts, I linked to the reports on my last trip to Argentina, I linked last week recommending everyone to join right now. 

[RockHardNYC]

@Latbear4blk

I'm glad you have not felt any "obvious" repercussion. That does not mean your "promotion" posts go unnoticed by certain individuals. I would argue suspicious eyes are watching you.

[Latbear4blk]

14 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

@Latbear4blk

I'm glad you have not felt any "obvious" repercussion. That does not mean your "promotion" posts go unnoticed by certain individuals. I would argue suspicious eyes are watching you.

Perhaps. It is possible. I was just pointing to the facts.

[Tartegogo]

2 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

Perhaps. It is possible. I was just pointing to the facts.

I wonder why you bother answering to him. For a very long time, he hasn’t been a member of M4M, yet he claims to know what is going in there better than us.

Sure, RH, you know and we don’t, sure. We are stupid and you are not.

Also keep writing to me in this long winded style, as if I have time to actually read it.

You are getting everything right! 

[RockHardNYC]

4 minutes ago, Tartegogo said:

For a very long time, he hasn’t been a member of M4M, yet he claims to know what is going in there better than us.

There you go again trying to shove your words down my throat. Where did I make this claim? Furthermore, since when does log-in capability make someone more knowledgeable? LOL.

9 minutes ago, Tartegogo said:

I wonder why you bother answering to him.

I wonder why you keep reading and responding to my posts if my attempt is to make you look stupid.

[Tartegogo]

Just now, RockHardNYC said:

LOL

Yeah. LOL. I’m rolling on the floor. This is hilarious. 

[Tartegogo]

13 minutes ago, RockHardNYC said:

Furthermore, since when does log-in capability make someone more knowledgeable? 

When have last experimented with posting a link to boytoy? That seem to be relevant to knowing what happens when you do that.

When have you last read what is posted in the cabana?

[caeron]

 

The M4M forums have a long history of uneven moderation. So you can mention boytoy now. Great, but who knows if it will change again tomorrow? Maybe the future there is all rainbows and unicorns. Maybe we'll get another round of biased bans after the next tidal wave of nastiness rolls through. I think the track record makes the second more likely.

Personally, I'm of the "fooled me once" school and am not interested in re-engaging over there.

But, if you find them valuable and enjoy them, then have at. Nobody is stopping you (well except the random monthlong shutdown...) I do think it's legitimate to warn people about this history over there though, because history does tend to repeat. People who have really been on the receiving end of that uneven moderation and bias are likely to be more vocal about that distaste.

 

[RockHardNYC]

19 minutes ago, caeron said:

Personally, I'm of the "fooled me once" school

+1

19 minutes ago, caeron said:

But, if you find them valuable and enjoy them, then have at.

Amen.

19 minutes ago, caeron said:

Nobody is stopping you (well except the random monthlong shutdown...)

LOL!

[Latbear4blk]

2 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

I wonder why you bother answering to him. For a very long time, he hasn’t been a member of M4M, yet he claims to know what is going in there better than us.

Well, sometimes I do like his posts.

 

[mvan1]

On 12/3/2018 at 5:13 AM, RockHardNYC said:

 

Daddy scraped up whatever remnants of a website he could get his hands on and started his own thing "in the name of Hooboy." 

 

Please tell me you do not believe this.  

[mvan1]

9 hours ago, RockHardNYC said:

 

Selective editing to express an innocent thought or feeling is perfectly fine, but selective editing to make a contentious assertion or imply a lie is another version of rudeness and trolling. The most important word missing from the quote above is "risk." And it's a word that changes the intent and meaning of my words. 

 

One omitted word changed an entire meaning - as you stated.  Good observation!

Edited December 6, 2018 by mvan1

[AdamSmith]

39 minutes ago, mvan1 said:

Please tell me you do not believe this.  

Why? It's the truth.

[mvan1]

13 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

Why? It's the truth.

You are sure about that, right?

[AdamSmith]

10 minutes ago, mvan1 said:

You are sure about that, right?

Yes.

[mvan1]

46 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

Yes.

"Daddy scraped up whatever remnants of a website he could get his hands on and started his own thing "in the name of Hooboy." '

The above quote is subject to several meanings. 

I think you and I are not "on the same page" so to speak when interpreting this quote.

Usually, you and I agree.  

There is a whole lot more to the takeover than the above quoted sentence allows.    

Edited December 6, 2018 by mvan1

[AdamSmith]

38 minutes ago, mvan1 said:

"Daddy scraped up whatever remnants of a website he could get his hands on and started his own thing "in the name of Hooboy." '

The above quote is subject to several meanings. 

I think you and I are not "on the same page" so to speak when interpreting this quote.

Usually, you and I agree.  

There is a whole lot more to the takeover than this one sentence allows.    

Gladly I will listen.

[RockHardNYC]

2 hours ago, mvan1 said:

The above quote is subject to several meanings.

Not as far as I'm concerned. Shortly after HB's death, Daddy was quite verbose about getting his hands on the review archive, or salvaging pieces of it that he happened to have in his possession. He also talked quite a bit about his dealing with HB's family through it all. These threads were once available for all to read. I sincerely doubt they still exist.

Edited December 6, 2018 by RockHardNYC