Take Care Down Here

[tassojunior]

On 10/4/2018 at 5:32 PM, spastik00 said:

Super glad to hear you're okay.  Stay safe down there.  Man, that's some scary stuff.  As angry as hearing Bolsonaro voters makes me, if the crime rate is getting that bad it's a least a little bit understandable that they might want a "law and order" type candidate.  It just sucks that he seems to hate us even more than he hates the criminals.

The upside is he hates criminals. 

The downside is he considers us criminals. 

 

 

It looks like he will get 45% and have to go into a runoff with the left-wing Haddad who won the eastern part of Brazil. The sarcastic cartoons are already starting:

[ferrar]

Great to have you back on these boards, ihpguy, although I hasten to add, not for the reason you mention.  Glad you are, and stay, safe.  

[AdamSmith]

On 10/4/2018 at 6:08 PM, Latbear4blk said:

Said that, and I said it sincerely, I think you are just overwhelmed for your bad experience and not thinking straight. You are over reacting. You do not know wether or not you would be dead if you were stabbed, because you were not.

Again, yes. These mugger kids are not stupid. They know that if they actually cut (or worse) any of their victims, that person will call 911 and go to the hospital and the hospital will then have to report it. And then the police will come out and pick up the perp (because the police are not stupid, they know who the perps are in any given neighborhood) ,and then the perp will get sent to prison.

Thieves are smart. They will rob you, but not hurt you. Unless you give them unreasonable resistance.

'Lay back, and let your mind think on England.' 

[demedici]

Between 5% and 8% of homicides in Brasil are actually solved and someone is tried for the murder. Only 2% of robberies in Sao Paulo, I doubt most criminals have an active fear of the police. 

[Latbear4blk]

Let's make it simple. If you are scared at Brazil's crime, do not go. More garotos for us. Stay in your safe USA paradise reading statistics about shit hole countries.

This bitter comment is not addressed to the OP, who has all my sympathy. 

[demedici]

My point was that we should not trust that thiefs won't get violent because they fear the police. I also disagreed with the implication that the OP did something to hasten the violence. 

Brazil poses some level of danger higher than what you'd find in most US cities and my primary advice would be to take precautions, like carrying a little cash in your pocket, and enjoy the scenery. 

[Lucky]

Headlines from today's NY Daily News:

Brutes jump, beat 25-year-old man for his cell phone in Brooklyn

Man, 28, stabbed by two men near Times Square, seriously injured

Man hospitalized after being shot in the face and stomach in Queens

Suspects in home invasion and sex assault at retired NYPD lieutenant's Brooklyn house charged with attempted murder

So, do we boycott Brooklyn, Times Square, or Queens, and, um, Brooklyn again.

Crime is everywhere. In Rio the favelas have the worst crime. I don't go there, although I did once take a guided tour, long ago. Fearing crime is one thing, being paralyzed by it is another. After all, this headline could have been someone you know, as we all risk car accidents without much thought:

Man struck by car while trying to cross Brooklyn expressway, critically injured: police

[pauleiro]

8 hours ago, demedici said:

 

I do not remember the name of this boy. He was lovely with green eyes to die for. Met him in 117. 

[Latbear4blk]

9 hours ago, demedici said:

My point was that we should not trust that thiefs won't get violent because they fear the police. I also disagreed with the implication that the OP did something to hasten the violence. 

Brazil poses some level of danger higher than what you'd find in most US cities and my primary advice would be to take precautions, like carrying a little cash in your pocket, and enjoy the scenery. 

 

So your point is comparing a huge and diverse country like Brazil to specific USA cities, probably picking the ones that back your position. Specifically what cities of Brazil are you comparing against what cities of the USA? You are just adding to the xenophobic American centered (you can replace "American" for your own adjective if you are adding to the bull shit) paranoia that so often shows up in these forums.

[axiom2001]

I started going to Brazil in 2002 and made 11 trips after that until 2011.  Prior to my first visit, far too manyfolks here (in the States)-- friends and acquaintances would invariably say: "It's (Rio) is dangerous.  I ignored their comments and followed the salient guidance given to me/us from the travelers at www.daddysreviews.com (now for the forums it's http://www.message-forum.net.  Fortunately, for me, as well as for the majority of others who ventured there and wrote about their adventures-- only had positive experiences to present.

In view of the current day economic situation, perhaps things have gotten out of hand, far more than in the past.  I don't know, but I do know that I would take precautions in order to avoid having any undue harm come to me.

I was sorry to read about one of our contributors and frequent travelers to Rio become a victim.  ...am glad that his injuries were not life threatening and that he will continue to venture to "MOTHER BRASIL" and to Rio de janeiro.

[RA1]

I have said it before and I suppose I am about to say it again.  My long standing advice to myself is to keep moving.  I have been in a lot of dangerous places all over the world and keep moving has worked for me.  Moving is easier if the goal is the journey not the destination.  But, it still can be applied with reasonable care of one's surroundings and the purpose of the trip.

I once delivered a plane to the Philadelphia area.  The buyer was a VW dealer.  He paid me in cash and handed me to a guy who took me to PHL in an old pick up truck.  Throughout I was worried that I was being setup for a robbery or worse but he delivered me safely to the terminal and I departed for home.  Maybe I was just lucky.  Maybe my keep moving worked in this case.  In either event, I am still alive. 

Best regards,

RA1

[Tartegogo]

18 minutes ago, RA1 said:

I have said it before and I suppose I am about to say it again.  My long standing advice to myself is to keep moving.  I have been in a lot of dangerous places all over the world and keep moving has worked for me.  Moving is easier if the goal is the journey not the destination.  But, it still can be applied with reasonable care of one's surroundings and the purpose of the trip.

I once delivered a plane to the Philadelphia area.  The buyer was a VW dealer.  He paid me in cash and handed me to a guy who took me to PHL in an old pick up truck.  Throughout I was worried that I was being setup for a robbery or worse but he delivered me safely to the terminal and I departed for home.  Maybe I was just lucky.  Maybe my keep moving worked in this case.  In either event, I am still alive. 

Best regards,

RA1

You last sentence reminded me of the https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

[RA1]

Yes, I am a survivor.

Best regards,

RA1

[demedici]

@Latbear4blk you are arguing against a point I am not making. I neither said the US is paradise or that Brazil is a shit hole. I said Brazil overall is more dangerous than the US and lots of US cities. That is only an argument for a little bit of caution. If you disagree and think caution is unnecessary, I think that is irresponsible advice. The statistics are fairly clear, the Brazil murder rate is just under 30/100K. The US murder rate is just under 6/100K. 

In terms of specific cities, in my mind, New York and São Paulo are comprable in terms of crime rates and the level of caution you might want to exercise. I would put Rio on par with New Orleans or maybe Miami: stay in the touristy parts and don't show bling. There are far more dangerous cities in Brazil, but we don't talk much about those here in this forum as they are not usually international tourist destinations. 

 

[demedici]

And since you wanted to look into his eyes... 

[pauleiro]

Yeah. He is really stunning. Better when he smiles. You remember his name ? 

[demedici]

I know him as Bruno. I only met him once... Need to repeat. 

[pauleiro]

Yes Bruno. Worth repeats indeed 

[SolaceSoul]

10 hours ago, demedici said:

@Latbear4blk you are arguing against a point I am not making. I neither said the US is paradise or that Brazil is a shit hole. I said Brazil overall is more dangerous than the US and lots of US cities. That is only an argument for a little bit of caution. If you disagree and think caution is unnecessary, I think that is irresponsible advice. The statistics are fairly clear, the Brazil murder rate is just under 30/100K. The US murder rate is just under 6/100K. 

In terms of specific cities, in my mind, New York and São Paulo are comprable in terms of crime rates and the level of caution you might want to exercise. I would put Rio on par with New Orleans or maybe Miami: stay in the touristy parts and don't show bling. There are far more dangerous cities in Brazil, but we don't talk much about those here in this forum as they are not usually international tourist destinations. 

 

This is an interesting choice in comparative cities, and illustrates why I tend to side closer to  @Latbear4blk in his argument. In my opinion, this goes back to not only WHERE you are and WHAT you do, but also WHO you are (or more specifically, who you appear to be to others).

New York City now is not the NYC of the 1970s and 1980s. It has not been this safe and devoid of violent crime in decades. Still, for some people, NYC (especially some less-gentrified parts of it) will never feel safe, and they will always feel like it look like they have a target on their backs. In NYC, as in most major urban areas, most violent crimes are committed intra-racially (black on black, white on white), because human nature is that people tend to victimize in their own communities, yet here as in elsewhere, we have mostly older mostly white guys freaking out over being victims of violent crimes in major urban areas with lots of young men of color.

The violent crimes that occur in New Orleans and Miami  — save for the anecdotal, media-hyped tales — tend to occur in concentrated, blighted areas with heavy drug wars and lots and lots of poorer people (of color). On your vacay, as a privileged tourist, do you really intend to be “slumming” or hanging out in East New York, Brooklyn, Lower Ninth Ward, New Orleans, or Liberty City, Miami? 

Petty theft is common anywhere well-trafficked that is known to have tourists or people not as familiar with the lay of the land. However, violent crime, especially something like armed robbery, is going to be far less common in tony Ipanema or Leblon in Rio than it is in the inland neighborhoods — one major reason is that there is a larger police presence there to protect the monied nervous nellies (justified or not). Just as it is on the Upper East Side of Manhattan or South Beach, Miami.

[ihpguy]

On 10/4/2018 at 5:34 PM, ihpguy said:

Sunday I was assaulted at 2pm directly in front of a kiosk and Posto 10, at the corner of Anibal de Mendonça and Vieira Souto. I was wearing only a fake watch, sitting in the shade on a bench on the sidewalk right next to the kiosk. Single adolescent. My backpack was securely between my knees and lower legs. I told him in Portuguese that I had nothing for him. So he hit me above the eye and ran. The street, sidewalk and beach were crowded. No one went after him. The police would have let a young teenager walk anyway. Down here they are called privates. The owner of the kiosk got me two bags of ice and plenty of paper towels to stanch the bleeding. Also called the tourist police nearby in Leblon, firefighters and ambulance/EMT. After waiting twenty minutes, two other customers walked me to a cab across the street. If he had a knife or gun, and I had been stabbed or shot, I would be dead. Hospital Copa D'Or saw me immediately. Two stitches. No waiting. My best friend down here, who happens to also be an attorney,  told me that the new thing is if a purse, wallet or cellphone isn't visible, they now go for backpacks. Everyone reading this, take care or go somewhere other than Rio de Janeiro.  The economy here is in the dumps. Since the start of 2017, over 20 hotels have shut down. The Copacabana Palace laid off a bunch of staff last week. Sofitel is closed probably for up to 2 years. Think of a reopening in time for Reveillon 2020. Just 2 examples. If Bolsonaro wins on Sunday or is in the second-round runoff, things could get much worse for gays here. People have been attacked on the new VLT at night as security has been cut back. Also, if you go to a sex motel, don't let the michê choose. At his, he might be in cahoots with whoever is at the front desk. Set-up for a robbery. I normally never go south of Botafogo. First time to Ipanema since March or April. If I didn't own places both in Rio and São Paulo,  I would be doing the circuit of Ibiza, Sitges, Barcelona, Mykonos, Athens, Lisbon and Porto.

A friend of mine, mid-fifties and about 6'4", Carioca, resident of Rio de Janeiro was assaulted yesterday at 5:15pm. Rush hour. Centro. Corner of Rua da Assembleia and Rua do Carmo. It is where the 45ish story Torre Candido Mendes is located. 6 male teenagers knocked down a woman in front of him and stole her purse. As they were running away and passed him, one of them threw a punch that connected with his chin. Streets crowded with people at this time. No one did a thing. Be careful. 

[Latbear4blk]

9 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

This is an interesting choice in comparative cities, and illustrates why I tend to side closer to  @Latbear4blk in his argument. In my opinion, this goes back to not only WHERE you are and WHAT you do, but also WHO you are (or more specifically, who you appear to be to others).

New York City now is not the NYC of the 1970s and 1980s. It has not been this safe and devoid of violent crime in decades. Still, for some people, NYC (especially some less-gentrified parts of it) will never feel safe, and they will always feel like it look like they have a target on their backs. In NYC, as in most major urban areas, most violent crimes are committed intra-racially (black on black, white on white), because human nature is that people tend to victimize in their own communities, yet here as in elsewhere, we have mostly older mostly white guys freaking out over being victims of violent crimes in major urban areas with lots of young men of color.

The violent crimes that occur in New Orleans and Miami  — save for the anecdotal, media-hyped tales — tend to occur in concentrated, blighted areas with heavy drug wars and lots and lots of poorer people (of color). On your vacay, as a privileged tourist, do you really intend to be “slumming” or hanging out in East New York, Brooklyn, Lower Ninth Ward, New Orleans, or Liberty City, Miami? 

Petty theft is common anywhere well-trafficked that is known to have tourists or people not as familiar with the lay of the land. However, violent crime, especially something like armed robbery, is going to be far less common in tony Ipanema or Leblon in Rio than it is in the inland neighborhoods — one major reason is that there is a larger police presence there to protect the monied nervous nellies (justified or not). Just as it is on the Upper East Side of Manhattan or South Beach, Miami.

I said before that I was not going to get involved in these arguments anymore, but I always fail to honor my promise. It is pointless. It is like explaining to a racist that he is a racist. This is just xenophobic bull shit, and there is no way you will make them understand. They will always come with the last anecdotal information to make their point.

My point is be careful. Always and everywhere. 

[Tomcal]

23 hours ago, pauleiro said:

Yeah. He is really stunning. Better when he smiles. You remember his name ? 

Paulo,  he is the former BF of Diego a boy who works all the saunas! he can be found at 117 on Tuesdays!

[Tartegogo]

10 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

My point is be careful. Always and everywhere. 

I don’t need to be careful in Japan. And so, sorry, I won’t be. I will be careless there.  

I will show in any street my stack of 10,000 bank notes yen, my iPhone X max, my jewellery etc etc. And I’ll be fine.

 

[Walker]

40 minutes ago, Tartegogo said:

I don’t need to be careful in Japan. And so, sorry, I won’t be. I will be careless there.  

I will show my stack of 10,000 bank notes yen in any street, my iPhone X max, my jewellery etc etc. And I’ll be fine.

 

I just saw a TV show a couple weeks ago that it is very common for Japanese to leave their bags or cell phones at the seating areas in stores while going home or to other stores running errands.  The reporter (foreigner) seem shocked, but all Japanese on the show say this is very common and nobody would steal.

[Tartegogo]

3 hours ago, Walker said:

I just saw a TV show a couple weeks ago that it is very common for Japanese to leave their bags or cell phones at the seating areas in stores while going home or to other stores running errands.  The reporter (foreigner) seem shocked, but all Japanese on the show say this is very common and nobody would steal.

No surprised either. They have vending machines on the street that are dispensing jewellery for up to $1000. They never get vandalised.

Different cultures lead to different crime levels.