Rio and nearby sights: what's fun? What's boring?

[CaliPexx]

@axiom2001: From your post, you indicated that you have not traveled in Rio de Janeiro in the past couple of years. Several of your RJ tour suggestions were good ones. One, however, was NOT! Check out the links below, just from the past months.

2 hours ago, axiom2001 said:

- I'd suggest that you add ... a visit to Rocinha Favela, Walking Tour from Marcelo Armstrong's company; he began this a few years back.  I went with one of his representatives with three or four others and felt relatively safe and at ease. 

• A once-trendy Rio slum is now ‘at war’ -- The murders in a popular Brazilian favela reflect rising violence in a country in crisis.

• Police operation in Rio favela leaves at least eight people dead -- Allegations that some of the victims were innocent residents executed in a revenge mission after a police officer was killed there

• Rio rethinks favela tourism amid wave of violence

And the violence in the favelas stems not just from narcotraficantes (drug lords and their gangs). Last October, a Spanish woman tourist was killed by police after doing a Rocinha walking tour as her driver failed to stop at a police checkpoint. When I was in Brazil in January, a friend of mine told me that, while visiting another so-called "pacified" favela, located between the safe Zona Sul communities of Leme and Botafogo, he and his group had to duck for cover as gunfire erupted.

Among my group of four travel buddies, I was the only one who always wanted to take a favela tour. However, in view of the current situation, I would not put my life at risk for a favela excursion, nor would I recommend that any tourist, whether a Rio de Janeiro "old hand" or novice, take that risk either. There are so many other fun and safe activities to do in Rio, as many of us have already pointed out.

[SolaceSoul]

I don’t think Marcelo Vidal (not Armstrong, I don’t know where axiom got that surname from!) does Rocinho tours anymore because of the danger factor. However, he may still do Santa Marta favela tours. SM overlooks Botafogo and has the Michael Jackson statue st the top (he shot a segment of a music video there in 1996).

https://youtu.be/QNJL6nfu__Q

Santa Marta was always safer than Rocinho, and was in the process of being gentrified and pacified, but with all the current violence and bad economy, it’s best to check with the locals and contact Marcelo directly.  

Marcelo Vidal

info@riogaytraveller.com

 

[CaliPexx]

3 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

… Santa Marta favela tours. SM overlooks Botafogo and has the Michael Jackson statue st the top (he shot a segment of a music video there in 1996). …

… Santa Marta was always safer than Rocinho, and was in the process of being gentrified and pacified …

Unfortunately, I think Santa Marta might have been the favela my American friend visited in 12/2017 and where they had to duck and cover because of a tiroteio (burst of gunfire). I recall him mentioning, when we spoke in January, that the Michael Jackson statue was supposed to be one of the highlights of the favela tour.

Just last week, not far from there, and even closer to the safe Zona Sul bairros of Leme and Urca, there was this tiroteio between two favelas near the famed Praia Vermelha that left seven people dead and, for the first time, closed down the Aerial Tramway leading up to Pão de Açúcar, stranding unsuspecting passengers on the rock:

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/seven-bodies-recovered-near-rios-sugarloaf-mountain-in-urca/

So, just as we discussed in the YF vaccine thread where, in my opinion, the benefit of getting immunized exceeds the risk, one must calculate the risk: benefit ratio of a favela tour. Right at this moment, at least in my mind, the potential risk for harm greatly exceeds the benefit a tourist might accrue from the visit.

[likeohmygod]

13 hours ago, CaliPexx said:

Just last week, not far from there, and even closer to the safe Zona Sul bairros of Leme and Urca, there was this tiroteio between two favelas near the famed Praia Vermelha that left seven people dead and, for the first time, closed down the Aerial Tramway leading up to Pão de Açúcar, stranding unsuspecting passengers on the rock:

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/seven-bodies-recovered-near-rios-sugarloaf-mountain-in-urca/

 

I agree. But while the vaccination for YF can be skipped if you're not going to an area of risk (and RJ and SP still have no cases yet)...visiting a favela right now is a risk you must not run. 

Seriously... It's not worth it, and it's worsening day after day.

Urca was believed to be one of the safest places of Rio. 

If the authorities are forced to stop a main tourist attraction for 5 hours and to close SDU airport for 15 minutes because of a tiroteio between gangs, it means that you have already all what you need to understand that a favela tour must not be on your to do list. 

[caeron]

I had already decided that I didn't really personally feel right doing a favela tour. As a rich American who has traveled and lived overseas in a lot of economically challenged areas, it doesn't feel right to me to treat a poor neighborhood as a tourist attraction. Your mileage may vary.

Add to that these significant safety concerns and I think it's pretty much off the table for me. 

[CaliPexx]

1 minute ago, caeron said:

… As a rich American who has traveled and lived overseas in a lot of economically challenged areas, it doesn't feel right to me to treat a poor neighborhood as a tourist attraction.

@caeron: Exactly. Beside the danger factor, this is another point I have wrestled with in my own mind in finally deciding against doing one of these tours.

Although proponents of organized favela visits will argue that a certain percentage of the fee gets plowed back into the community, thereby helping the residents, I find it hard to get past the unseemly spectre of a group of wealthy (at least by Brazilian standards) gringos gawking at the residents of the favela community and their living conditions.

But, as you commented, YMMV.

[axiom2001]

22 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

I don’t think Marcelo Vidal (not Armstrong, I don’t know where axiom got that surname from!) does Rocinho tours anymore because of the danger factor. However, he may still do Santa Marta favela tours. SM overlooks Botafogo and has the Michael Jackson statue st the top (he shot a segment of a music video there in 1996).

https://youtu.be/QNJL6nfu__Q

Santa Marta was always safer than Rocinho, and was in the process of being gentrified and pacified, but with all the current violence and bad economy, it’s best to check with the locals and contact Marcelo directly.  

Marcelo Vidal

info@riogaytraveller.com

 

In 2002 or 2003 I obtained my information from a reputable guide book.  When I arrived in Rio, I made my arrangements via phone; Sr. Marcelo Armstrong came to the hotel and discussed his tour/s with me; I booked, etc.  

I am quite cognizant that the environment is much different some 16 or 15 years later.  If our OP desires a tour of a favela or favelas, I, too, would highly suggest that he contact the company first and discuss safety and other particulars.

[When Sr Marcelo came to my hotel, I eagerly greeted him because we have the same surname.  If his name is Vidal, I knew NOTHING about it, and he did not state otherwise when I introduced myself to him.]

[Riobard]

Two different guides ... Armstrong favela-focused and Vidal gay-focused.

[CaliPexx]

3 hours ago, axiom2001 said:

I am quite cognizant that the environment is much different some 16 or 15 years later.  If our OP desires a tour of a favela or favelas, I, too, would highly suggest that he contact the company first and discuss safety and other particulars.

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer (boy, that phrase really dates me! ) but ...

@axiom2001: If you and @SolaceSoul need any further proof of why you wouldn't even want to do a tour of the Santa Marta favela, where the Michael Jackson statue is located, just look at the headline from yesterday's O Dia newspaper. I've translated the headline into English but the text of the article is in Portuguese:

Gunfire in Santa Marta operation, in Botafogo, frightens residents 

@caeron: I realize that you have made the wise decision not to do a favela tour but please be careful, even in the area where you are staying near where Copacabana meets Ipanema. The following gun battle happened just today in the Cantagalo and Pavão-Pavãozinho favelas, both of which loom over Copacabana and Ipanema and are visible from many of the high-rise apartments my friends and I have rented in those areas over the years. The paper interviewed horrified residents of both Copacabana and Ipanema who were close enough to hear the gunshots.

Gunfire in Pavão-Pavãozinho operation frightens Copacabana residents

These gun battles occurred, as have some other recent ones, as a result of the return of the Unidade de Polícia Pacificadora (UPP), the "Police Pacification Unit", and the Forças Armadas (the Federal Armed Forces) to combat the narcotraficantes (drug gangs) in the favelas. Several years ago, similar actions of the UPP brought peace to many of the favelas. Unfortunately, as soon as the UPP departed, the narcotraficantes and their associated violence returned to those communities.

Most of the places you travel in Rio de Janeiro in the Zona Sul (South Zone beach communities) and Centro (Downtown) will be very safe, particularly when there are lots of other people around. However, just as in any large city with huge disparities in incomes and high crime rates, it's best to keep your wits about you at all times. Just look and act streetwise, like a carioca (Rio native). Never present the aura of being an unsuspecting tourist.

[SolaceSoul]

4 hours ago, axiom2001 said:

In 2002 or 2003 I obtained my information from a reputable guide book.  When I arrived in Rio, I made my arrangements via phone; Sr. Marcelo Armstrong came to the hotel and discussed his tour/s with me; I booked, etc.  

I am quite cognizant that the environment is much different some 16 or 15 years later.  If our OP desires a tour of a favela or favelas, I, too, would highly suggest that he contact the company first and discuss safety and other particulars.

[When Sr Marcelo came to my hotel, I eagerly greeted him because we have the same surname.  If his name is Vidal, I knew NOTHING about it, and he did not state otherwise when I introduced myself to him.]

I already suspected such, but for newer posters who might not be familiar with your method, it would’ve been useful if you had originally posted that the information in which you were sharing is from 15-16 years ago. 

[sanddunes]

Two somewhat disturbing articles:

Missing Norwegian Business Executive, Last Seen in Ipanema

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-politics/rio-police-search-for-missing-norwegian-torkil-prytz-tyvold/

Apparently there is still no sign of him...

LGBTQ Student Activist Matheusa Passarelli Reportedly Executed In Rio De Janeiro

https://blavity.com/lgbtq-student-activist-matheusa-passarelli-reportedly-executed-in-rio-de-janeiro

[CaliPexx]

15 hours ago, CaliPexx said:

Sorry to be a Debbie Downer (boy, that phrase really dates me! ) but ...

... today's headline from the English language newspaper, The Rio Times, about the ongoing military and police operations in and around the favelas of Rio de Janeiro, even in the "safe" Zona Sul (South Zone), adjacent to the beach community of Leme (next to Copacabana):

Armed Forces Deploy 1,800 Troops Around Leme in Rio’s Zona Sul

[numazu]

This is great guys. I am going to Rio in a few months and will check out some of the suggestions here.

A couple of questions:

1. Has anyone been to ilha Grande? Any tips or experiences any one wanna share? It looks beautiful and Gabriel wants to take me. 

2. Gabriel insists on me staying in his apartment in Sao Goncalo partially for my visit next time (to save money he says). I intend on having an AirBNB in Ipanema the whole time to store my valuables and other things, but thought staying with him in his usual habitat is a good experience. Good or bad idea? 

[SolaceSoul]

6 minutes ago, numazu1 said:

 

2. Gabriel insists on me staying in his apartment in Sao Goncalo partially for my visit next time. I intend on having an AirBNB in Ipanema the whole time to store my valuables and other things, but thought staying with him in his usual habitat is a good experience. Good or bad idea? 

Sao Gonçalo is a 45 minute drive from Ipanema, on the other side of the Guanabara Bay. You sure you want to do that? Maybe just do one overnight there, so that he doesn’t feel offended.

[Riobard]

2 hours ago, SolaceSoul said:

Sao Gonçalo is a 45 minute drive from Ipanema, on the other side of the Guanabara Bay. You sure you want to do that? Maybe just do one overnight there, so that he doesn’t feel offended.

Be sure, if you go there, to consider working in a visit to the Oscar Niemeyer Museum in Niteroi. The ferry is a fun alternative to the bridge. Also Praia Itacoatiara, the favoured beach of east-siders, further southeast from Niteroi ... it has a few hikes as well, including Elephant Rock. 

[Riobard]

This year, a handful of yellow fever cases among visitors to Ilha Grande, and at least one local death there. But the place looks lovely. Paraty a little further west is also worthwhile.

[Tartegogo]

4 hours ago, numazu1 said:

1. Has anyone been to ilha Grande? Any tips or experiences any one wanna share? It looks beautiful and Gabriel wants to take me. 

I haven’t been, but get the yellow fever vaccine if you venture there.  I  read a couple of months ago that one tourist contracted  it while staying over night there and later died. It isn’t like the big southern city centers, where mosquitoes hardly venture. And it is warm enough, not like the colder state of RS. 

[Tartegogo]

2 hours ago, Riobard said:

This year, a handful of yellow fever cases among visitors to Ilha Grande, and at least one local death there. But the place looks lovely. Paraty a little further west is also worthwhile.

Oops I had missed that and replied too quick. You beat me to it by 2 hours. 

[trencherman]

[axiom2001]

On 6/20/2018 at 8:09 PM, SolaceSoul said:

I already suspected such, but for newer posters who might not be familiar with your method, it would’ve been useful if you had originally posted that the information in which you were sharing is from 15-16 years ago. 

Perhaps I should have done what you stated; thus, there would not have been so much discussion about walking through parts of favelas!  Thanks!

[trencherman]

[axiom2001]

3 hours ago, trencherman said:

Even though I've done this venture 11X's during my visits to Rio de janeiro, I have never tired of the experience.  ...same for the Hippie Faire on Sundays in Ipanema.

 

[trencherman]

1 hour ago, axiom2001 said:

Even though I've done this venture 11X's during my visits to Rio de janeiro, I have never tired of the experience.  ...same for the Hippie Faire on Sundays in Ipanema.

 

I’m the opposite.  No acrophobic by any means but I can only go as high as the first leg which technically is not Pão de Açucar yet.
Only did the hippie fair once but the once a month antique fair in Centro close to the shadow of the Aquiduct, that I do on every Rio stay.

 

[Tomcal]

my apartment for the last 7 years is directly across the street from the Hippie Fair and i have been once! the food and dessert stands were the only thing i felt was worth the money

[CaliPexx]

1 hour ago, Tomcal said:

my apartment for the last 7 years is directly across the street from the Hippie Fair and i have been once! the food and dessert stands were the only thing i felt was worth the money

There's another offering of the Sunday Hippie Fair on Praça General Osório in Ipanema: a number of artists display and sell their paintings. Although, as previously stated, most of us would not recommend a favela tour, many of the works of art have colorful scenes of favelas, usually with other iconic features of Rio de Janeiro in the background, like the statue of Cristo Redentor on top of Corcovado. The smaller pieces can be rolled up and transported back to the U.S. relatively easily. They make for lovely, inexpensive gifts for friends back in the States or for hanging in your own home.