How do we take care of a boy without spoiling?

[Guest MonkeySee]

I have just met a guy that is very sweet. He is kind and considerate and handsome to boot. I would like to help this guy and am thinking English school would be a nice first step, but I think he would rather have money, a new phone, gold jewelry and material goods. Of course, I have popped for some clothes and a phone, but do not want to become the walking ATM. How does one work this out? I guess you need to set limits. One wants to be generous and please the boy, but often that leads to problems. Look at Gay Thailand’s situation where he had to clean house because the boys became lazy and would not take care of his basic needs. In short, guys will take advantage of a farang's generosity. I have also heard of farangs buying a condo for a boy, just to have it sold for gambling debts or drugs. What do you think? What is the happy medium?

[Guest lvdkeyes]

How would you handle a similar situation in your own country? Although, it is not the same because of the economics involved, it should give you some guidelines. IMHO, first off, you need to really know what type of boy you are dealing with. A boy in need of help does not need gold and other material goods. He needs a means of taking care of himself now and in the future. English classes and further education is a better investment. To paraphrase Mark Twain:

Give me a fish and I can eat today; teach me to fish and I can eat everyday.

[Guest laurence]

One wants to be generous and please the boy, but often that leads to problems.

 

I believe it is most important to please yourself not the boy. Most likely education would be the best gift on all as far as his future life. But all of them will bleed you to death if allowed. This is not just Thai boys but hustlers worldwide.

 

PS - As I was writing this reply lydkeyes was first in line; My reply echoes his.

[Gaybutton]

How do we take care of a boy without spoiling?

The simplest answer is: You don't.

 

But if you want to try, then my experience tells me the first thing to do is set ground rules and limitations immediately. Make it crystal clear and don't wait.

 

I would make it clear that I am not a walking ATM and that I didn't work my tail off all my life to come here and start giving away my life savings.

 

If you want to do things like take the boy shopping, then give him the amount you are willing to let him spend before entering the stores and let him know that's all you're willing to spend and there are to be no arguments about it or pleadings for a few hundred baht more. He can buy what he wants out of the money you give him. No matter how much you give him, it's never enough, so you have to be fair, but firm.

 

I would make it clear that you are not about to become the benefactor for his family. I would tell him you don't even want to hear about the family problems, with the possible exception of a life and death emergency for immediate family members, but not the cousins, aunts, nieces, nephews, and God-knows-who-else. I would also tell him that even under those circumstances, you will personally check out what you are being told before you part with one baht. One thing I think Ronald Reagan was right about was his idea of "trust, but verify." Other than that, the family has to take care of themselves just as they did before the boy ever met you.

 

If you give him an allowance, then make it clear how much you are willing to give him and the basis on which you'll give it to him - every week, every two weeks, every month, or whatever. If he wants to help his family, it comes out of that. And no borrowing against the allowance.

 

I would make it clear that he has to work. He doesn't get to retire at age 22.

 

If you are going to have him move in with you, make it clear what your expectations are of him around the condo or house regarding chores. If he lives up to what he agrees to do, fine. If not, then let him know you'll hire a maid to do the chores he's failing to do and the cost of the maid service will be deducted from his allowance.

 

If he wants to bring friends over, he has to clear it with you first. You don't want to walk in and find him sitting there, music blaring, food and drinks all over the place, your liquor supply gone, and your home in a mess. If you let him bring his friends over, then make sure you establish what time the party's over. No inviting a bunch of friends out to dinner or a night on the town with you footing the bill. He has to ask you first and he has to ask in private. Sometimes these boys will ask you right in front of the friends and now you're in a very awkward position and it can be very difficult to say no.

 

If you have certain peeves, then make sure you reach an understanding. My biggest peeve is the friends calling at all hours of the night. After a certain hour, either the phone gets turned off or the ringer volume is set to zero.

 

You have to try to anticipate as much you can and establish as much as you can in advance. The boy needs you a lot more than you need him. I know I probably seem callous to some, but I've come to learn that the little things do much more harm to a relationship than the big things do.

 

I think the biggest mistake farangs make is allowing themselves to be afraid of losing the boy. You can't let that happen. If you do, then the boy will slowly but surely figure out how to manipulate you and wrap you around his little finger.

 

There is no way I would allow a boy to live with me again until I have gotten to know him very, very well for at least a full year.

 

The boy has to know what you expect of him and you have to know what he expects of you.

[Guest luvthai]

If you have just met this guy then why are you rushing to get so involved? Give it some time and really get to know him before you spend huge amounts of money and time and heart on him. No doubt if you fall too hard to fast you will end up on the losing end. SLOW DOWN!

[Guest fountainhall]

From my experience, an ability to communicate is vital. That means either he speaks some decent English or you speak some decent Thai. Of course just speaking the language does not equate with an understanding of the country's culture, customs etc., but it is a start. Without it, I don't see how any relationship stands a chance of surviving.

[PattayaMale]

I am not sure that there is a play book to go by. Different personalities get different results. I always felt that if I would go into a relationship with suspicion that the partner needs all sorts of boundaries or that if I buy things this alone will make him stay, the relationship would probably fail.

 

What has worked for me is to try to build a relationship of security for each of us. Many times the farang or the Thai has received threats such as "if you don't do ....I am going to leave you" or "if you... then I will get this for you". It makes the entire relationship a very material one. I want a relationship based on long term security.

 

Financially, the farang usually starts out with the most money. In my case though I have always tried to make sure my Thai partner has an almost equal say in how this money will be spent. If either one of us really protests then there must be some type of compromise.

 

For sure I am no expert. I realize this fits my personality and it is not universal. But I am happy with how it has worked for me. Everyone must think on their own what matches their personality.

 

I have had friends that have given cars, gold, 40,000 baht allowances, helped build houses for the Thai's parents and after a few years they can't believe that the Thai has left. "After all I did for him, he does this". Usually though this was because the farang would always throws what "They gave" into the Thai's face. Then the farang feels all Thai boys are this way.

 

But when I looked around I saw some great success. One Thai now owns a host bar and makes more than the farang. Still together after many years. Another farang has a wonderful Thai friend. The Thai sees him every night and both are very much in love, but they do not live in the same house. The Thai is up and out the door almost every morning. Neither Thai nor farang worry about what the other does. They don't need to. They are secure in their relationship.

 

I also have friends that would not think of having a relationship. They love the chase and the variety. They may have certain guys they favor, but they do not to be obligated to one person even if the relationship is to be "open".

 

Different personalities..............

 

Good luck on how you choose to lead your life in this

 

 

[Guest lvdkeyes]

If you have just met this guy then why are you rushing to get so involved? doubt if you fall too SLOW DOWN!

Good advice!

 

 

 

PattayaMale Posted Today, 01:30 PM

I always felt that if I would go into a relationship with suspicion that the partner needs all sorts of boundaries or that if I buy things this alone will make him stay, the relationship would probably fail.

 

I totally agree.

 

 

[Gaybutton]

I am not sure that there is a play book to go by.

The chemistry certainly has to be there, along with so many other factors. I agree with that, but MonkeySee wasn't asking about our ideas about what makes relationships work or fail or how to build a relationship. He didn't even say he wants that kind of relationship with this boy. All he said was that he would like to help this boy without having the boy take advantage of his generosity. He was asking about steps he can take so that the boy he met won't end up spoiled and so that MonkeySee won't become the next two-legged ATM. To do that, I believe ground rules have to be set up right from the start if the friendship looks like it might go somewhere in the long run.

 

I've helped out many boys with whom I have no intent or interest in establishing a relationship. I do what I can simply because I like them and enjoy their company. But I do have rules and I make sure they understand my limitations.

[PattayaMale]

I guess I read too much into MonkeySee's post. I don't understand how buying phones is helping.

 

I guess people do go around buying gold, phones, clothes as a way of "helping" without wanting anything in return. Those people have a much bigger heart than I do. When I think of that kind of helping I think of charities.....I guess that could included......

 

Never mind. Up2you

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I guess I read too much into MonkeySee's post.

 

I think you read MonkeySee's post just as he intended it. Either that or we both read too much into it. Maybe he could elaborate further.

[Guest RichLB]

A couple things spring to mind. Remember your friend is interested in more than just money. His status and standing amongst his friends and family are also important. Having come to Pattaya for the assumed reason, the folks back home expect some level of success from his journey. The material things you've mentioned symbolize that to them and gain him boon. Status is most probably as important to a young Thai man as it was to us in our youth.

 

He also elevates his social position if he has a "good" farang. That can mean a farang that continues to care for him, gives him money, is popular with his friends or any number of other things. Again, it's not just the money.

 

But, in terms of the material, let me share a story. A business man decides to reward his employees at Christmas by giving them each a Christmas turkey. They are overjoyed and their motivation increases significantly. The next year he does the same thing with the same result. By the fifth time around he notices his generosity is having no effect on his workers' enthusiasm. He decides not to give the Christmas turkey and is met with a near revolt. They expected that turkey and saw it as nothing significant until it was withheld.

 

The lesson from the above story is that random rewards work better than predictable ones. If you opt for the predictable, be prepared for resentment when you discontinue or limit your gifts. If you can afford it, be generous, but not predictable.

[Guest Steve1903]

I think it would be rather quite fun to have BS learning English at the same time the farang leans some Thai. As time goes by, each could have a good laugh at the others attempts while at the same time helping to improve the grasp of the language.

 

Roughly how much does it cost for a years English tuition for boy and Thai tuition for a farang?

[Guest lvdkeyes]

But, in terms of the material, let me share a story.

 

The lesson from the above story is that random rewards work better than predictable ones. If you opt for the predictable, be prepared for resentment when you discontinue or limit your gifts. If you can afford it, be generous, but not predictable.

 

I have previously posted this, but I will post it again for emphasis and agreement with RichLB. When I was a supervisor in a home health agency in the US I was required to have weekly team meetings. I started to bring in bagels, schmears and orange juice for the meetings. Everyone was appreciative and enjoyed them. After a couple of months one nurse came to the meeting, looked at the bagels and said, "What, bagels again?"

[Guest MonkeySee]

Thanks everyone for the good advice. When I said "just met" I should have said "just saw again." I met this freelancer in a bar and offed him last year. We saw each other maybe a half dozen times and had a great time. He then disappeared. I just saw him again and still had a great time. He is now back in Isaan and does not seem to enjoy the bar scene. I find myself thinking about him, and although I am a confirmed butterfly, I like the kid. I think he likes me, as well. He wants me to make a trip to meet the family. I think proceeding slowly is good advice, but would hate to pass over a gem in the rough. I am also, not sure I am in a position to provide support to him and his family. As with most Thai guys, it seems to be family first.

[Gaybutton]

As with most Thai guys, it seems to be family first.

That is true, but a visit to the family doesn't mean you have to suddenly become their benefactor. If you do visit, then you will be expected to cover costs of taking the family to eat or cover whatever you do with them.

 

Sometimes a visit to a boy's home can be the highlight of the trip. Under your circumstances, I would give the boy whatever amount of money you choose (I think 1000 or 2000 baht would be plenty) and ask him to buy some gifts for the family in your behalf. He will know what they would like to have. It may come as a surprise to find out what that might be. One time I visited a family and the gifts the boy wanted to give were laundry detergent and fish sauce! And mama was genuinely happy to get it.

 

I would tell the boy that you are willing to pay for whatever you do with the family provided he clears it with you first, in private, so you don't end up being put on the spot. I would make sure he understands that's as far as "take care family" will go. If that is acceptable to both him and you, then if it were me I'd go for the trip.

[PattayaMale]

English classes have been mentioned several times, this is one of the first things I asked my Thai friend if he would do it. I thought that it would be good to have private lessons, but for whatever reason he wanted to do it in a small group. The cost was 2000 baht for 6 weeks, 3 days a week.

 

One of the things we included was some basic computer skill. (Remember this was almost 11 years ago). The reason for the computer class was so he could learn to send me a daily email.

 

One of the benefits of this turned out to be that he learned to spell very well. And to this day when he wants to learn a word he asks me to spell it.

 

The emails were very short at first. I tried to make mine simple too. When I came back to see him 4 months later I noticed that he had copied my emails by hand and used a Thai English dictionary to learn words I had written.

 

Since MonkeySee is a good distance away, it may be a good idea to ask him about English classes and by sending emails might help him learn. Good luck and have a good trip!