OBSERVATION

[Suckrates]

 

I think we should change the name of this site to "Travels in Latin and South America".  Of late the only areas getting any interest are the Latin travel areas.  They seem to be overladen with visitors and a few participants....

Its great that this site is just a Treasure Trove of travel information and visitors to the site can get travel info or help for an upcoming trip, so its a valuable resource.

But interest and participation is still lacking in the other areas, so the question is,  what does this site need to up-the-ante in other areas ?    Just curious, and I really dont expect a landslide response here. 

[MsAnn]

1 hour ago, Suckrates said:

so the question is,  what does this site need to up-the-ante in other areas ?   

More interesting posters like you, @Larstrup, and @AdamSmith...Failing that, my participation here is rather limited. I don't really have an interest in traveling to Latin or South America currently, so that forum doesn't really bring me here.  My participation on the MF is primarily in the Lounge and the political section. As stated repeatedly, I don't think anyone really knows why so many people participate on the MF, but the fact is, that those that do, are a diverse and interesting group. Yes...traffic drives participation. It's like a snowball rolling down hill, the further it goes, the bigger it gets, but in the end, it's not just the traffic, it's the quality of the posters.

Since I've haven't had my morning latte and lemon loaf, I'm just a tad bit cranky this Sunday morning, so I'll preface my comments by saying, this doesn't speak to your questions specifically, and I know I'll get strong opinions to the contrary, and that's fine, but I like the more stricter moderating of the MF. There, I've said it. I think administrators who moderate with a heavier hand create and demand a more civil place to post. It keeps troll behavior in check, yes myself included, and allows an atmosphere of more discussion rather than  attacks. I haven't always agreed with Daddy or Deej, their decisions sometimes seem unreasonable and unfair, but nothing is perfect, no one and no system without fault.  As an example, this year was a fascinating year for politics, and for all the bantering, heated exchanges, unwavering opinions, blatant personal attacks, the political section (we miss you there) was a brilliant read. Even those I vehemently disagreed with, would keep the place lively. The moderators would step in every now and again, but for the most part, they let discussions take their natural course.

So that's all I've got...except to say, I have met and gotten to know personally,  more than a few posters on the MF, probably a couple of dozen over the years, and I am always amazed at how interesting some of the people over there are. There lives and life experiences bring so much to the table, that there is always a different perspective to consider. I've learned a lot, laughed a lot, and read a lot, and in the end, walked away better for it. When I was banned, I missed it, when I travel, I miss it, if it ever ends, I will miss it, but it already has made my life more interesting, more fun, and some of my best friends I met on there, so at this point, everything going forward is just icing on the cake.

[TotallyOz]

Many would say that when someone new tries to post that they get swamped with criticism and trolling behavior and thus do not participate long.  Perhaps it is time for a more heavy handed moderation?

[Suckrates]

48 minutes ago, MsAnn said:

More interesting posters like you, @Larstrup, and @AdamSmith...Failing that, my participation here is rather limited. I don't really have an interest in traveling to Latin or South America currently, so that forum doesn't really bring me here.  My participation on the MF is primarily in the Lounge and the political section. As stated repeatedly, I don't think anyone really knows why so many people participate on the MF, but the fact is, that those that do, are a diverse and interesting group. Yes...traffic drives participation. It's like a snowball rolling down hill, the further it goes, the bigger it gets, but in the end, it's not just the traffic, it's the quality of the posters.

Since I've haven't had my morning latte and lemon loaf, I'm just a tad bit cranky this Sunday morning, so I'll preface my comments by saying, this doesn't speak to your questions specifically, and I know I'll get strong opinions to the contrary, and that's fine, but I like the more stricter moderating of the MF. There, I've said it. I think administrators who moderate with a heavier hand create and demand a more civil place to post. It keeps troll behavior in check, yes myself included, and allows an atmosphere of more discussion rather than  attacks. I haven't always agreed with Daddy or Deej, their decisions sometimes seem unreasonable and unfair, but nothing is perfect, no one and no system without fault.  As an example, this year was a fascinating year for politics, and for all the bantering, heated exchanges, unwavering opinions, blatant personal attacks, the political section (we miss you there) was a brilliant read. Even those I vehemently disagreed with, would keep the place lively. The moderators would step in every now and again, but for the most part, they let discussions take their natural course.

So that's all I've got...except to say, I have met and gotten to know personally,  more than a few posters on the MF, probably a couple of dozen over the years, and I am always amazed at how interesting some of the people over there are. There lives and life experiences bring so much to the table, that there is always a different perspective to consider. I've learned a lot, laughed a lot, and read a lot, and in the end, walked away better for it. When I was banned, I missed it, when I travel, I miss it, if it ever ends, I will miss it, but it already has made my life more interesting, more fun, and some of my best friends I met on there, so at this point, everything going forward is just icing on the cake.

 

YES, it does amaze me that there is not more interest in the political forum here, especially in these uncertain and trying times.  Apparently there is alot more interest in ones asshole than ones country, and the talk about the hottest Garoto in Brazil is more robust than talk about our corrupt President.  YES I realize this IS a site about escorts, and hiring,  but your focus doesnt have to be that narrow in my opinion.   Even if you arent an American citizen Trumps reign is affecting you too, in some way, and you should be taking notice.   Noone can tell me what to do, so I would never attempt to do that here, although it might sound like it.   But it would be refreshing if people could broaden their horizons and realize this is what WE make it, and it could be so much more than it is....  I'ver not had the pleasure of meeting anyone from any site, but there are people I feel closer too than others, and I enjoy interracting with them and try to find topics and pics that might interest or entertain them.  These sites for many are about  bonding and sharing.  for others its "hit & run".   It would be nice however if you contributed a little nugget for us to savor before you "ran" off.   (NO Adam Smith, NOT that kind of nugget) .  Every little participation helps.   

[Suckrates]

8 minutes ago, TotallyOz said:

Many would say that when someone new tries to post that they get swamped with criticism and trolling behavior and thus do not participate long.  Perhaps it is time for a more heavy handed moderation?

 

Use BOTH hands !

 

And FYI, let's not confuse "disagreement" with  "criticism", which is often the case.   Unless you are a blogger and block commentary, you will undoutedly encounter people on public sites than do not share your opinion, and will vocally disagree with you.   In these cases, you are not being attacked or criticised, merely "disagreed" with, and that's life.   We have already discussed ad nauseum, and are in agreement that there should be action and consequences for those that cross a line into attack or behavior that isnt civil.   Even criticism can be given in a civil way, because as the saying goes, some criticism can be "constructive"... 

[TotallyOz]

What would you have done for the third post in this thread? And, then it got even worse. Nothing civil at all about it and other threads.  Often a very hard call to make.

 

[Latbear4blk]

I do not think we have many chances to accommodate reality to our needs. The reality is that in our subculture the M4M forums have became the place to discuss American escorts and politics, and BT is the place to discuss Americans traveling and international escorting.

I do think that a stronger moderation is necessary here to foster participation. I myself have a strong tendency to ad hominem attacks, and it would be a good thing to be called out and even timed out if I cross a line. Answering to @TotallyOzquestion about that third post, I think at least a warning would have been appropriate. Something that should not be tolerated also is when threads are open with the sole purpose to criticize another forum member.

 

[Suckrates]

1 hour ago, Latbear4blk said:

I do not think we have many chances to accommodate reality to our needs. The reality is that in our subculture the M4M forums have became the place to discuss American escorts and politics, and BT is the place to discuss Americans traveling and international escorting.

I do think that a stronger moderation is necessary here to foster participation. I myself have a strong tendency to ad hominem attacks, and it would be a good thing to be called out and even timed out if I cross a line. Answering to @TotallyOzquestion about that third post, I think at least a warning would have been appropriate. Something that should not be tolerated also is when threads are open with the sole purpose to criticize another forum member.

 

 

Agreed.  Are you listening, Lucky ?  

[Suckrates]

2 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

What would you have done for the third post in this thread? And, then it got even worse. Nothing civil at all about it and other threads.  Often a very hard call to make.

 

@Mr Oz,  I am NOT a child.  The 3rd post was obviously mine, so you could call me out.  On the surface, it might have seemed inappropriate and an "attack", however if you read my entire comment, and put it in perspective, my response was an attack of an attack the OP made.  Does that make MY behavior right, or acceptable......NO !

But in those moments when your blood begins to boil,  you need to release it somehow.  Often there is a "cause and effect" to posting and responses.  Clearly YOU had an opinion of MY post, and should have taken action at that time.... Some members simply post to be "popular".  Clearly that is NOT my M.O.  I post with honesty and conviction, and if my opinion is not the popular one, I can live with that.   

Also I think it important to look an a members entire "body of work".   Determine if that member is ALWAYS in attack mode and logs on solely to disrupt, distract and demean,  OR if somehow an out of character response is merely an extreme reaction to some trigger....  Either way, there should still be consequences and ANY bad behavior should be addressed. 

Let me be clear, my Banning @ Daddy's was never the issue.  It was the favoritism that was.  People that were donors were allowed much worse offenses "without" Banning, than I was, for posting a pic with a perceived Boner.   If you are an admin or a Boss, the first rule is to treat ALL the people under you with the same respect and equality.   That is sorely lacking @ Daddy's...   

So sir, consider your belated message to ME "received"....

[Suckrates]

2 hours ago, Latbear4blk said:

I do not think we have many chances to accommodate reality to our needs. The reality is that in our subculture the M4M forums have became the place to discuss American escorts and politics, and BT is the place to discuss Americans traveling and international escorting.

I do think that a stronger moderation is necessary here to foster participation. I myself have a strong tendency to ad hominem attacks, and it would be a good thing to be called out and even timed out if I cross a line. Answering to @TotallyOzquestion about that third post, I think at least a warning would have been appropriate. Something that should not be tolerated also is when threads are open with the sole purpose to criticize another forum member.

 

 

Agreed.  somewhere along the line this site has morphed into the new Damrons Gay Travel Guide.   It's success at that should be applauded. 

Sadly, I have no interest in Travel at this point in my life.

[Tartegogo]

5 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

Many would say that when someone new tries to post that they get swamped with criticism and trolling behavior and thus do not participate long.  Perhaps it is time for a more heavy handed moderation?

I would trust you with any level of moderation, Oz. 

[Tartegogo]

9 hours ago, Suckrates said:

 

I think we should change the name of this site to "Travels in Latin and South America".  Of late the only areas getting any interest are the Latin travel areas.  They seem to be overladen with visitors and a few participants....

Its great that this site is just a Treasure Trove of travel information and visitors to the site can get travel info or help for an upcoming trip, so its a valuable resource.

But interest and participation is still lacking in the other areas, so the question is,  what does this site need to up-the-ante in other areas ?    Just curious, and I really dont expect a landslide response here. 

The Europe and Asia threads are active as well. 

Unfortunately, nobody has much to report on US escorts here apart from @Latbear4blk. Anything I have to say on a US escort I would put it on M4M first, because someone will react to it, (nearly every hot escort has his own thread) whereas here, mostly it will be ignored. And then double-posting seems like a waste of time. 

For international escort reviews, M4M is a terrible idea though, since , even though what you are doing is perfectly legal in the country where you are doing it, Daddy will rule that you cannot explicitly describe the exchange of sex for money, as it is a violation of Sesta/fosta  “promotion of protitution” rules, which his website is subject to (unlike this one).

if anyone doesn’t believe me: he deleted my South America thread on the day of fosta becoming law, because I was telling how much for what service. He also recently deleted the entire thread called “nyc spa” as people were telling how much they generally tip for which type of act on the massage table.  I asked if I could describe a visit to a legal gay brothel in Japan, and he told me that would need to be reviewed, as describing sex for money could be construed as promoting it.

So, while I understand why people are worried about telling too much for things that are happening on US soil, but frankly, if it is not allowed for me to even tell about something that I did 100% legally outside of the US, then M4M will never be a “complete” forum. 

[TotallyOz]

1 hour ago, Tartegogo said:

Unfortunately, nobody has much to report on US escorts here apart from @Latbear4blk. Anything I have to say on a US escort I would put it on M4M first, because someone will react to it, (nearly every hot escort has his own thread) whereas here, mostly it will be ignored. And then double-posting seems like a waste of time.

Some threads are ignored. But, while there are some posters that visit both sites, many do not.  Double posting to me seems like no issue as you will reach a bigger audience. But, many people do not like to post if they don't get tons of comments or likes. That is the Social Media age.  But, I also like having a record of posts and trips and dates for others to view and read.  Even those that do not get reactions do get read and for me, that is enough. I have always seen this site as a way for guys to promote other guys who are good in the industry and to help them get work and to warn against those that people need to be leery about. Plus, how many times on this site have you or anyone else posted where that thread is deleted? That number is very low and I can only remember a few posts in the last few years and all were basically the same controversy.

[TotallyOz]

5 hours ago, Suckrates said:

@Mr Oz,  I am NOT a child.  The 3rd post was obviously mine, so you could call me out.  On the surface, it might have seemed inappropriate and an "attack", however if you read my entire comment, and put it in perspective, my response was an attack of an attack the OP made.  Does that make MY behavior right, or acceptable......NO !

Lord knows that you are not a child.  Never even crossed my mind that you didn't know I was talking about your post.  I was simply asking you to take the insight of a moderator.  If you had seen that post from someone else, would you have left it? Warned the poster?  Banned him?  It is never an easy call.  At least for most.  I try to give deference to those who are active on the site and that is sometimes not the right call. But, I am only human and try my best to let adults defend themselves.  However, I am getting to the mindset that perhaps more control will serve the site better.  This is not an attack on you at all. 

[tassojunior]

Prague. 

Over 1000 posts and we have more 411 on our boys than anywhere.

Prague is so successful (100,000 views) because it's gossip by city. 

On M4M Forums 411 threads are all national, as if all clients travel nationally. While the formal Daddy-approved reviews of the top guys who do travel nationally are organized by city. hmmm.

One of the best young ones, Bradley Black ne Stewart, just moved to DC and I have all 411 and reviews but no DC thread to post them in like I do Prague. And on M4M he's listed (Ohio) but only reviewed by formal reviews, no gossip. 

[Tartegogo]

3 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

Plus, how many times on this site have you or anyone else posted where that thread is deleted? 

That is indeed a major plus on this site, I am not worried about loosing content. 

To be honest, everyone at M4M could migrate here, and it would just work for me. The amount of moderation required for you to perform, Oz, however, would be quite something.

The big migration might happen, if Fosta comes after Daddy. 

[MsAnn]

I disagree...I've never understood the need to save a contentious thread filled with hateful remarks and threats in the 'Sand Box'. What's the point? Of course it's entertaining to go back and re-read the meltdowns, but I think that once a thread reaches that degree, and posters are literally yelling at each cyberly, it's best that it just goes away. Let all of the bad behavior die. Leaving it alive for others to see and reread and continue to comment on, does little to promote civility. Of course deleting threads, putting posters on 'time-out' or banning them altogether without explanation means there is a lack of transparency, but as a member, I don't need to know why, nor do I care, the reasoning behind the all of the actions of admin.

Anyway...I've probably said too much.

Plus there's homemade apple pie and Haagen Daz vanilla ice cream in the fridge. A gift from a neighbor for helping her paint all day.

 

[Suckrates]

5 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

The Europe and Asia threads are active as well. 

Unfortunately, nobody has much to report on US escorts here apart from @Latbear4blk. Anything I have to say on a US escort I would put it on M4M first, because someone will react to it, (nearly every hot escort has his own thread) whereas here, mostly it will be ignored. And then double-posting seems like a waste of time. 

For international escort reviews, M4M is a terrible idea though, since , even though what you are doing is perfectly legal in the country where you are doing it, Daddy will rule that you cannot explicitly describe the exchange of sex for money, as it is a violation of Sesta/fosta  “promotion of protitution” rules, which his website is subject to (unlike this one).

if anyone doesn’t believe me: he deleted my South America thread on the day of fosta becoming law, because I was telling how much for what service. He also recently deleted the entire thread called “nyc spa” as people were telling how much they generally tip for which type of act on the massage table.  I asked if I could describe a visit to a legal gay brothel in Japan, and he told me that would need to be reviewed, as describing sex for money could be construed as promoting it.

So, while I understand why people are worried about telling too much for things that are happening on US soil, but frankly, if it is not allowed for me to even tell about something that I did 100% legally outside of the US, then M4M will never be a “complete” forum. 

How much evidence of Daddy's paranoia do you need to understand his motivation. ?  He's scared shitless of repercussion, and will distance himself from anything that can be construed as illegal.  

[Suckrates]

11 minutes ago, MsAnn said:

I disagree...I've never understood the need to save a contentious thread filled with hateful remarks and threats in the 'Sand Box'. What's the point? Of course it's entertaining to go back and re-read the meltdowns, but I think that once a thread reaches that degree, and posters are literally yelling at each cyberly, it's best that it just goes away. Let all of the bad behavior die. Leaving it alive for others to see and reread and continue to comment on, does little to promote civility. Of course deleting threads, putting posters on 'time-out' or banning them altogether without explanation means there is a lack of transparency, but as a member, I don't need to know why, nor do I care, the reasoning behind the all of the actions of admin.

Anyway...I've probably said too much, so night all.

 

I think it serves us well to have the contentious posts moved.  Not only does  it avoid what would be considered "censorship" by the admin if the thread was entirely deleted, but it also serves to illustrate what is considered BAD behavior.  Surely there can be 2 camps of thought here with validity for either one.  IMO, moving threads is an honorable move on THIS admins part.  And truly, only those that were involved in the drama to start with will follow the thread.  So it seems moot either way. 

[Tartegogo]

10 minutes ago, Suckrates said:

How much evidence of Daddy's paranoia do you need to understand his motivation. ?  He's scared shitless of repercussion, and will distance himself from anything that can be construed as illegal.  

Yep,  his motivation is easy to understand. 

Not his choice of a solution (keeping his servers in the US????). 

[Suckrates]

4 hours ago, TotallyOz said:

Lord knows that you are not a child.  Never even crossed my mind that you didn't know I was talking about your post.  I was simply asking you to take the insight of a moderator.  If you had seen that post from someone else, would you have left it? Warned the poster?  Banned him?  It is never an easy call.  At least for most.  I try to give deference to those who are active on the site and that is sometimes not the right call. But, I am only human and try my best to let adults defend themselves.  However, I am getting to the mindset that perhaps more control will serve the site better.  This is not an attack on you at all. 

I think you might b missing my point, that "context" of a post is most important.   As I had mentioned, that 3rd post was simply my initial reaction to RH's attack of Boytoy in his OP.

I felt it uneccesary and uncalled for so I called him out.  Was it worthy of admin action ?  Not any more so than the original attack by the OP was.   But certainly, you should run this site in any way YOU see fit, and give less importance to how you are perceived.   Whoever doesnt like your moderating style always has the freedom to leave your site. 

[MsAnn]

Now that we've got that all worked out, can we please get back to "Grandma" posting pictures of Nick Jonas...

[Suckrates]

30 minutes ago, MsAnn said:

Now that we've got that all worked out, can we please get back to "Grandma" posting pictures of Nick Jonas...

 

Is it ever really ALL worked out ???

 

OR

[TotallyOz]

8 hours ago, Suckrates said:

I think you might b missing my point, that "context" of a post is most important.   As I had mentioned, that 3rd post was simply my initial reaction to RH's attack of Boytoy in his OP.

I felt it uneccesary and uncalled for so I called him out.  Was it worthy of admin action ?  Not any more so than the original attack by the OP was.   But certainly, you should run this site in any way YOU see fit, and give less importance to how you are perceived.   Whoever doesnt like your moderating style always has the freedom to leave your site. 

Sir, I do appreciate your defending my honor.  Honestly, when I read the post I didn't see it as an attack but just funny. I was not upset in the least. As you see, my tolerance level is high. Perhaps that is because I learned a long time ago that very little of something someone posts on a message board is meant personal.  Most don't know me personally.  Some do and the ones that have met me know I am mellow and gentle.

[Suckrates]

1 hour ago, TotallyOz said:

Sir, I do appreciate your defending my honor.  Honestly, when I read the post I didn't see it as an attack but just funny. I was not upset in the least. As you see, my tolerance level is high. Perhaps that is because I learned a long time ago that very little of something someone posts on a message board is meant personal.  Most don't know me personally.  Some do and the ones that have met me know I am mellow and gentle.

You are as always, Absolutely right....  NOTHING should be personal,  until it IS !     Getting to know individual posters, their methods, style, and goals for posting,  you come to realize they post with specific intent.    Sometimes it's to incite, sometimes it to demean and often its to make themselves feel good about THEMSELF by belittling others.  As was the case with the incident that's been discussed here.  You may not have the time to digest and dissect every post the way some of us do,  and if you did, you might see things from a different, more enlightened perspective.    Is it that important or that big of a deal ?   No No No..... But for the handful of us invested in this site,  its how we get to know WHO we are dealing with and learning who to avoid (or confront).  .