Programa Pricing 2018 Version

[sanddunes]

Rio - 117 and Point 202

-Most guys will take 100 reals for a programa.  I have been asked without exception for more if I want gozar.  I’m curious if others get goza included with the 100.  I have been asked for between 120 and 150 with goza.  

-Some guys want more than 100 if you want them to be pasivo (this applies more to muscle guys who aren’t usually pasivo).  Usually in this case they ask for 150.

-Lowest I’ve paid is 80, and that is with guys who I was on the border about hiring.  I’ve also gotten massages for 50 reals, probably because the masseuse was desperate for buisness that day. 

-Higher end guys (best looking, muscular) sometimes ask for 150 and won’t come down, especially on busy nights.  These are the guys that are in highest demand. Usually they ask for 200 with goza.  If I’m really into the guy and he won’t come down sometimes I pay 150.  I am wondering if anyone else has experience with guys who won’t budge from 150.  The most I’ve ever paid is 200 with goza. 

-Overnights.  Usually they quote around 400, but it varies.  Curious what other people are paying for this.  I’ve yet to actually do an overnight with a garoto.

Lagoa

-The guys usually ask for more in Sao Paulo to start than in Rio.

-Starting price for negotiations is 150.  The lesser in demand ones will go down to 100-120.  It’s easier to get them to come down on less busy nights when there aren’t a lot of clients. 

-Some of the top-end guys won’t budge from 150.  There is at least one or two that insist on 200.  All the guys at Lagoa also ask extra for cum. There has only been twice I can think of when they came without asking for more.

-Overnights at Lagoa: have been quoted from 400 to 700 reals.

-I’m also curious if anyone has had success re-negotiating a rate with a garoto.  In my experience it is difficult after you have already paid them 150, but then later try to get them to go for 100.  What you pay the first time is usually what you pay for repeats.

[Tartegogo]

56 minutes ago, sanddunes said:

-Overnights.  Usually they quote around 400, but it varies.  Curious what other people are paying for this.  I’ve yet to actually do an overnight with a garoto.

One guys offered an overnight for 200. But I paid 400 as he was cute and caring and very nice to me and I would have felt guilty to give less. 

In other cases I was quoted 450.

[Tartegogo]

57 minutes ago, sanddunes said:

-I’m also curious if anyone has had success re-negotiating a rate with a garoto.  In my experience it is difficult after you have already paid them 150, but then later try to get them to go for 100.  What you pay the first time is usually what you pay for repeats. 

Well,  I definitely got offered 100 the second time from a guy that I paid 150 the first.

Slow night + he knew what to expect from me in the cabin I guess. I didn't take it though, not that great a guy.

[Riobard]

The main variables are venue busyness, temporal, sexually behavioural, and generally accepted attractiveness stock value. Have I got that right? Perhaps also negotiation acumen? Currency exhange? Predictive value of precedent?

Several complex continua that are a challenge to stratify, knit together, and arrive at some arbitrary currency amount. Multivariate analysis anyone?

Whew! I hope I do not burn out faster than the average working guy there.

On another note, I would love to see open transparent auctions of these apparent new studs on the block. Even better, an advance perusal of the portfolio. 

[Tartegogo]

1 hour ago, Riobard said:

The main variables are venue busyness, temporal, sexually behavioural, and generally accepted attractiveness stock value. Have I got that right? Perhaps also negotiation acumen? Currency exhange? Predictive value of precedent?

Several complex continua that are a challenge to stratify, knit together, and arrive at some arbitrary currency amount. Multivariate analysis anyone?

Whew! I hope I do not burn out faster than the average working guy there.

On another note, I would love to see open transparent auctions of these apparent new studs on the block. Even better, an advance perusal of the portfolio. 

For those garotos who are gay, you forgot the client’s attractiveness. 

Let me build an 8-dimensional matrix visualisation tool for your auction

[axiom2001]

I always cringe   when I read about the fees the garotos request and how some of the men here respond.  Today's rates  [5.13.18]  for the real vs the dollar follow:

R$100   =  $29.00         

R$150   =  $41.00     

R$200   =  $55.00

R$250   =  $69.00

R$400   =  $116.00

I had planned to write some additional observations and perceptions but thought it best to do just as I did.  Men, think about it!

[sanddunes]

For me it isn’t so much the dollar amount as it is not wanting the garoto to view me as gullible or stupid.  

If I choose to be generous, I want that to be my decision, and not the garoto thinking he is pulling a fast one on me.

It’s also annoying to see the same garoto later with a local older/overweight/whatever client and thinking that they are charging that client less than me.

[SolaceSoul]

4 minutes ago, sanddunes said:

For me it isn’t so much the dollar amount as it is not wanting the garoto to view me as gullible or stupid.  

If I choose to be generous, I want that to be my decision, and not the garoto thinking he is pulling a fast one on me.

It’s also annoying to see the same garoto later with a local older/overweight/whatever client and thinking that they are charging that client less than me.

(1) Concerning yourself with what others you conduct business think of you personally sounds like a personal problem. It’s a business transaction. You pay what you can afford and what you feel it worth. The other party asks for what they believe they can get considering variable circumstances (all discussed in other posts above). You have no way of knowing if they think you’re a sucker or not. There are posters here who would lowball a garoto any opportunity they could get. Does that make the garoto a sucker and the client a user?

(2) How you view the desirability of othe clients (whether by their age or their weight, as you mentioned here, or perhaps other external factors) is also another personal issue. A payboy sauna is not a mating ritual like a singles bar or a swipe-left Grindr or Tinder app. Garotos are there to make money, not a love connection. You may believe that you’re physically attractive or irresistible, but the fact remains is you are there because you have to pay for it, just like the fat old guys.

This board just had a conversation about how insensitive it is that certAin posters consistently remarking that some clients may not be as beautiful as others. The flip side of that is that some posters consistently remark that they pay less because they are somehow better looking than the average client. It’s like some really weird psychological affirmation — when the irony is we are all proactively paying for it.

3) I have a hard time squaring paying what amounts to a measly extra $12 for sex as “being generous”. You’re not exactly donating to the Res Cross.

[sanddunes]

23 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

(1) Concerning yourself with what others you conduct business think of you personally sounds like a personal problem. It’s a business transaction. You pay what you can afford and what you feel it worth. The other party asks for what they believe they can get considering variable circumstances (all discussed in other posts above). You have no way of knowing if they think you’re a sucker or not. There are posters here who would lowball a garoto any opportunity they could get. Does that make the garoto a sucker and the client a user?

(2) How you view the desirability of othe clients (whether by their age or their weight, as you mentioned here, or perhaps other external factors) is also another personal issue. A payboy sauna is not a mating ritual like a singles bar or a swipe-left Grindr or Tinder app. Garotos are there to make money, not a love connection. You may believe that you’re physically attractive or irresistible, but the fact remains is you are there because you have to pay for it, just like the fat old guys.

This board just had a conversation about how insensitive it is that certAin posters consistently remarking that some clients may not be as beautiful as others. The flip side of that is that some posters consistently remark that they pay less because they are somehow better looking than the average client. It’s like some really weird psychological affirmation — when the irony is we are all proactively paying for it.

3) I have a hard time squaring paying what amounts to a measly extra $12 for sex as “being generous”. You’re not exactly donating to the Res Cross.

1) I suppose you would be fine buying a new car from a dealership for 50k and then learning your friend bought the exact same car for 25k?  

I suppose you also wouldn’t care if the car salesman told everyone else you were a dumb American and were stupid enough to pay double?  The difference between 100 and 200 reals is 2x.  Tomcal has reported before garotos making fun of clients behind their backs who overpay.

2) I don’t expect to get charged less than an unattractive client.  But I certainly don’t expect to get charged more.  

3) You are assuming my generosity amounts to $12 extra when you really have no idea what I have given or am capable of giving

[sanddunes]

58 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

You may believe that you’re physically attractive or irresistible, but the fact remains is you are there because you have to pay for it, just like the fat old guys.

First of all, I don’t go to saunas because I have no way to get sex other than pay for it.  There are plenty of other reasons guys go to saunas (convenience and immediacy, ease of selection, safety, the social aspects). Saunas are fun for a variety or reasons.  

I also find the saunas fascinating as an American who grew up in a Puritan, repressed, sex-negative culture.  The sexuality, lack of shame over nudity, and culture norms found in Brazil and Brazilian saunas are so radically different and refreshing.

Second, I wasn’t trying to diss “fat old guys.” You seem to be taking it personal for no reason.

[Tartegogo]

1 hour ago, axiom2001 said:

I always cringe   when I read about the fees the garotos request and how some of the men here respond.  Today's rates  [5.13.18]  for the real vs the dollar follow:

R$100   =  $29.00         

R$150   =  $41.00     

R$200   =  $55.00

R$250   =  $69.00

R$400   =  $116.00

I had planned to write some additional observations and perceptions but thought it best to do just as I did.  Men, think about it!

Axiom, we, know, believe us, we DO know. (Except 29x2=55????)

Yes, it is 6 times cheaper than in NYC  

What you don’t seem to realise, is that everyone earns 6 times less than in NYC, on average. The waitress in a restaurant. The guy working behind a desk in a bank. The local pastor. The guy that collects bins. The lady that cleans my hotel room. 

Everything is in proportion. If we were all to give US$300-350 to a garoto for 1 full hour of penetrative sex with cum (which is what it costs in NYC these days) instead of $55, the garotos would become the richest people in their neighbourhood. That is not a problem in itself, but then I can’t afford as many guys, so, no thank you, I pay the local fair price, which is a very good price for Brazil, whether you like it or not. 

And then I am generous (when I say generous, i don’t mean an extra $12, I mean smartphone-price level) to the guys who are amazing and make me feel young and sexy. 

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, sanddunes said:

1) I suppose you would be fine buying a new car from a dealership for 50k and then learning your friend bought the exact same car for 25k?  

I suppose you also wouldn’t care if the car salesman told everyone else you were a dumb American and were stupid enough to pay double?  The difference between 100 and 200 reals is 2x.  Tomcal has reported before garotos making fun of clients behind their backs who overpay.

2) I don’t expect to get charged less than an unattractive client.  But I certainly don’t expect to get charged more.  

3) You are assuming my generosity amounts to $12 extra when you really have no idea what I have given or am capable of giving

1) Not that a fuck or a massage in a bordello is anything close to a major purchase like a car or a house, but I certainly wouldn’t be dumb enough to overpay double for a car — because I would’ve walked into the dealership having performed research and having the information necessary to know the market value of the vehicle.

But if my friend bought a car for 1/2 of what I paid, I would congratulate him on his negotiation skills and due diligence, and maybe be mad at myself for not being as savvy. However, barring fraud or nonperformance, I certainly wouldn’t blame the seller if I agreed to the price.

2) Sometimes you get charged less than someone that you personally don’t find attractive. Sometimes you get charged more. As they say in South Brooklyn, them’s the breaks.

3) $12 was an example to put things into perspective. But the difference between 100 R (a number you keep touting as the standard) and 150 R is about $13 USD. “Being generous” seems like a very odd phrase to use when the difference is $12.  It reads like you think you’re doing the service provider a favor, or are tipping beyond their requested fee. Actually, it sounds like a very gringo-ey thing to say. I don’t mean that as an insult, but it’s certainly not a compliment. 

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, sanddunes said:

First of all, I don’t go to saunas because I have no way to get sex other than pay for it.  There are plenty of other reasons guys go to saunas (convenience and immediacy, ease of selection, safety, the social aspects). Saunas are fun for a variety or reasons.  

I also find the saunas fascinating as an American who grew up in a Puritan, repressed, sex-negative culture.  The sexuality, lack of shame over nudity, and culture norms found in Brazil and Brazilian saunas are so radically different and refreshing.

Second, I wasn’t trying to diss “fat old guys.” You seem to be taking it personal for no reason.

 

If that were truly the case, then this portion of your statement was totally unnecessary:

”It’s also annoying to see the same garoto later with a local older/overweight/whatever client and thinking that they are charging that client less than me.“

Why would it bother you if an older or overweight client is charged less than you? It has already been discussed ad nauseum here that locals and long-time regulars get favored treatment. But being perturbed by favored treatment towards an older or fatter client seems to be coming from a personal place for you. 

Re: getting sex, you don’t have to prove to me or anyone that you can get it without paying. I couldn’t care less how you get it. My point is that, for a multitude of reasons, we sex tourists choose to pay for it. The WHY someone is paying versus why someone else might be is for each person to work out. What another client does, what a garoto does for or with that client, or what another client pays has little to do with me. Obsessing over that is pointless — unless one gets some odd self-esteem boost from knowing they get charged a few dollars less for a programa than some other guy.

[Badboy81]

5 hours ago, sanddunes said:

Rio - 117 and Point 202

-Most guys will take 100 reals for a programa.  I have been asked without exception for more if I want gozar.  I’m curious if others get goza included with the 100.  I have been asked for between 120 and 150 with goza.  

-Some guys want more than 100 if you want them to be pasivo (this applies more to muscle guys who aren’t usually pasivo).  Usually in this case they ask for 150.

-Lowest I’ve paid is 80, and that is with guys who I was on the border about hiring.  I’ve also gotten massages for 50 reals, probably because the masseuse was desperate for buisness that day. 

-Higher end guys (best looking, muscular) sometimes ask for 150 and won’t come down, especially on busy nights.  These are the guys that are in highest demand. Usually they ask for 200 with goza.  If I’m really into the guy and he won’t come down sometimes I pay 150.  I am wondering if anyone else has experience with guys who won’t budge from 150.  The most I’ve ever paid is 200 with goza. 

-Overnights.  Usually they quote around 400, but it varies.  Curious what other people are paying for this.  I’ve yet to actually do an overnight with a garoto.

Lagoa

-The guys usually ask for more in Sao Paulo to start than in Rio.

-Starting price for negotiations is 150.  The lesser in demand ones will go down to 100-120.  It’s easier to get them to come down on less busy nights when there aren’t a lot of clients. 

-Some of the top-end guys won’t budge from 150.  There is at least one or two that insist on 200.  All the guys at Lagoa also ask extra for cum. There has only been twice I can think of when they came without asking for more.

-Overnights at Lagoa: have been quoted from 400 to 700 reals.

-I’m also curious if anyone has had success re-negotiating a rate with a garoto.  In my experience it is difficult after you have already paid them 150, but then later try to get them to go for 100.  What you pay the first time is usually what you pay for repeats.

What do you look like?  Would you mind describing yourself so that I can get a visual?  Thanks

[Badboy81]

1 hour ago, Tartegogo said:

Axiom, we, know, believe us, we DO know. (Except 29x2=55????)

Yes, it is 6 times cheaper than in NYC  

What you don’t seem to realise, is that everyone earns 6 times less than in NYC, on average. The waitress in a restaurant. The guy working behind a desk in a bank. The local pastor. The guy that collects bins. The lady that cleans my hotel room. 

Everything is in proportion. If we were all to give US$300-350 to a garoto for 1 full hour of penetrative sex with cum (which is what it costs in NYC these days) instead of $55, the garotos would become the richest people in their neighbourhood. That is not a problem in itself, but then I can’t afford as many guys, so, no thank you, I pay the local fair price, which is a very good price for Brazil, whether you like it or not. 

And then I am generous (when I say generous, i don’t mean an extra $12, I mean smartphone-price level) to the guys who are amazing and make me feel young and sexy. 

 

1 hour ago, Tartegogo said:

And then I am generous (when I say generous, i don’t mean an extra $12, I mean smartphone-price level) to the guys who are amazing and make me feel young and sexy. 

I love this point...The amazing ones that make you feel young and sexy....Thanks for making my Sunday with that line

[SolaceSoul]

1 minute ago, Badboy81 said:

What do you look like?  Would you mind describing yourself so that I can get a visual?  Thanks

The description is going to be the standard  “good looking, fit, all-American” vagueness. The confidence of mediocre gringos is quite staggering.

[Badboy81]

5 hours ago, sanddunes said:

Rio - 117 and Point 202

-Most guys will take 100 reals for a programa.  I have been asked without exception for more if I want gozar.  I’m curious if others get goza included with the 100.  I have been asked for between 120 and 150 with goza.  

-Some guys want more than 100 if you want them to be pasivo (this applies more to muscle guys who aren’t usually pasivo).  Usually in this case they ask for 150.

-Lowest I’ve paid is 80, and that is with guys who I was on the border about hiring.  I’ve also gotten massages for 50 reals, probably because the masseuse was desperate for buisness that day. 

-Higher end guys (best looking, muscular) sometimes ask for 150 and won’t come down, especially on busy nights.  These are the guys that are in highest demand. Usually they ask for 200 with goza.  If I’m really into the guy and he won’t come down sometimes I pay 150.  I am wondering if anyone else has experience with guys who won’t budge from 150.  The most I’ve ever paid is 200 with goza. 

-Overnights.  Usually they quote around 400, but it varies.  Curious what other people are paying for this.  I’ve yet to actually do an overnight with a garoto.

Lagoa

-The guys usually ask for more in Sao Paulo to start than in Rio.

-Starting price for negotiations is 150.  The lesser in demand ones will go down to 100-120.  It’s easier to get them to come down on less busy nights when there aren’t a lot of clients. 

-Some of the top-end guys won’t budge from 150.  There is at least one or two that insist on 200.  All the guys at Lagoa also ask extra for cum. There has only been twice I can think of when they came without asking for more.

-Overnights at Lagoa: have been quoted from 400 to 700 reals.

-I’m also curious if anyone has had success re-negotiating a rate with a garoto.  In my experience it is difficult after you have already paid them 150, but then later try to get them to go for 100.  What you pay the first time is usually what you pay for repeats.

For about the 20th time....(probably even more than that) there is a standard price among the boys in the saunas that will fluctuate based on a few things...

1.  How attractive said client is to that particular guy (that usually applies only for the gay boys)

2.  How in demand the guy is (or how not in demand he is)  Guys who are in high demand stick to their rates and often don't negotiate because they don't have a need to

3.  Time of year...How busy the sauna is in general....Prices are set during the peak season with little to no negotiation but can change dramatically during slower times of year

4.  How well known/liked you are...guys who know you will be a repeat client are usually not trying to take advantage or get more money versus the standard rate

5.  How good is your Portuguese?

6.  Are you wining and dining or just going in for sex....that definitely will affect how much you pay

7. How new is the guy....newer guys usually aren't so set in their prices the same way that guys who have been around for a while and are no longer in great demand

I personally don't get into negotiating...I ask rate and if its agreeable, Im good...

I am had freebies before and paid lower than 80R....I have also paid 200R for in apartment service but try to stick to the norm....I don't tip but I am generous and I always see a guy again who I have enjoyed before....

[Gotti]

Not everything is proportional with the US, food for example, is about the same, if not more expensive, McDonald's, which I think would be a good comparison, has some sandwiches costing more in Brazil than in the US, other restaurants, I feel I would pay less in the US, gasoline is way more expensive in Brazil as is telephone and other utilities, rent is cheaper than NY but probably not much cheaper than an average American city, so make sure you enjoy the boys as much as you can!

Not than long ago, 2 or 3 years, if anyone researches this forum, they will find lots of people complaining how outrageosly expensive Brazil was, it happens the currency rate has changed, still some basic things are still costing a substantial amount of money.

[sanddunes]

2 minutes ago, Badboy81 said:

Guys who are in high demand stick to their rates and often don't negotiate because they don't have a need to

This is the kind of info I was looking for.  

I was curious if others have encountered guys who stick to their rate of 150 or whatever.

I was also curious if they routinely ask more for cum, because tomcal had mentioned in a thread that he pays 100 and it is expected that cum is included with that.  That hasn’t been my experience, so I was looking for more data points

 

[Tartegogo]

2 minutes ago, Gotti said:

Not everything is proportional with the US, food for example, is about the same, if not more expensive, McDonald's, which I think would be a good comparison, has some sandwiches costing more in Brazil than in the US, other restaurants, I feel I would pay less in the US, gasoline is way more expensive in Brazil as is telephone and other utilities, rent is cheaper than NY but probably not much cheaper than an average American city, so make sure you enjoy the boys as much as you can!

Agree. It must be really tough to live a decent life for those that are not garotos, and must buy food, pay rent and transportation on a minimum wage pay. 

[SolaceSoul]

1 hour ago, Tartegogo said:

Everything is in proportion. If we were all to give US$300-350 to a garoto for 1 full hour of penetrative sex with cum (which is what it costs in NYC these days) instead of $55, the garotos would become the richest people in their neighbourhood. That is not a problem in itself, but then I can’t afford as many guys, so, no thank you, I pay the local fair price, which is a very good price for Brazil, whether you like it or not. 

No one is suggesting that the Brazilian garotos should be paid New York escort prices. But this persistent argument over what is basically a $6 to $12 difference — mostly from tourists, visitors — seems petty AF.  Rates for programa have increased slightly in the last decade but that increase hasn’t exactly kept up with the rate of inflation or America’s rising Dow Jones Index. Perspective, people, perspective.

[sanddunes]

31 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

The description is going to be the standard  “good looking, fit, all-American” vagueness. The confidence of mediocre gringos is quite staggering.

I’m a 6”1 cuban-american latino and look brazilian, the only mediocre gringo here is you.

I’ve rarely (if ever) talked about my looks on here, you’re the one making a big deal about it. 

I get propositioned by clients every single time I go to the saunas, to the point where it gets annoying.  They assume everyone is for sale and can’t take no for an answer.

[Badboy81]

18 minutes ago, sanddunes said:

This is the kind of info I was looking for.  

I was curious if others have encountered guys who stick to their rate of 150 or whatever.

I was also curious if they routinely ask more for cum, because tomcal had mentioned in a thread that he pays 100 and it is expected that cum is included with that.  That hasn’t been my experience, so I was looking for more data points

 

First....you provided info based on your own experience and that is all that everybody can do for you...

I have already said that you are NOT Tomcal and should not go off of what he said because he goes to Rio several times a year and has so for over 20 years...you aren't him and you aren't me so there are going to be differences because we are different people...IE, our interactions are going to be different than the guys'

You are asking the same things over and over again hoping to get a different answer and there really is not concrete, 1 standard answer for you

Sidenote...I don't care if the guy comes or not so that is something you have to factor into how much you are asked to pay

[Badboy81]

14 minutes ago, sanddunes said:

I’m a cuban-american latino and look brazilian, the only mediocre gringo here is you.

I’ve rarely (if ever) talked about my looks on here, you’re the one making a big deal about it. 

I get propositioned by clients every single time I go to the saunas, to the point where it gets annoying.  They assume everyone is for sale and can’t take no for an answer.

If you are as hot as you are, you should not have a  problem getting FREE sex in Rio...

I get the reason why you like the saunas, ease, cost, etc.  but based on your description, you should have NO issues and if the price quoted is not what you want to pay, you can rest assure that somebody will give you some free sex in Rio....Its really not hard bro

[sanddunes]

7 minutes ago, Badboy81 said:

If you are as hot as you are, you should not have a  problem getting FREE sex in Rio...

I get the reason why you like the saunas, ease, cost, etc.  but based on your description, you should have NO issues and if the price quoted is not what you want to pay, you can rest assure that somebody will give you some free sex in Rio....Its really not hard bro

I do get plenty of free sex in Rio.  I rarely write about that here because it pisses people like SolaceSoul off.  

I understand these boards are about escorts and saunas, so those are the focus of my postings.

And again, I have not gone around talking about how hot I am, nor would I - it’s totally gauche.  I made one minor comment and it got blown out of proportion by the bitter gringo SolaceSoul