4 foreigners caught in Pattaya

[Gaybutton]

It is therefore not a non-governmental organisation.

I'm happy to stand corrected. If it's an official governmental organization, then that will make it even more difficult for these "gentlemen" to buy their way out of it. Good!

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I'm happy to stand corrected. If it's an official governmental organization, then that will make it even more difficult for these "gentlemen" to buy their way out of it. Good!

 

"It is therefore not a non-governmental organisation."

 

Re-read this. Am I confused or are you?

[Guest buaseng]

"It is therefore not a non-governmental organisation."

 

Re-read this. Am I confused or are you?

You are !!! It's perfectly understandable if you know the difference, in the first place, between an organisation which is an NGO and one which is not.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

You are !!! It's perfectly understandable if you know the difference, in the first place, between an organisation which is an NGO and one that is not.

 

I was directing my question to GB. Bua... posted:

It is therefore not a non-governmental organisation.

 

And then GB posted: "I 'm happy to stand corrected. If it's an official governmental organization, then that will make it even more difficult for these "gentlemen" to buy their way out of it. Good!"

[Guest buaseng]

I was directing my question to GB. Bua... posted:

It is therefore not a non-governmental organisation.

 

And then GB posted: "I 'm happy to stand corrected. If it's an official governmental organization, then that will make it even more difficult for these "gentlemen" to buy their way out of it. Good!"

You've got me confused now ! If you were addressing GB, perhaps it would have been better if you had quoted part or all of his comment and not part of my original post, to make it clearer.

 

Am assuming you are querying the logic behind GB saying it will be more difficult for these 'gentlemen' to buy their way out of it because it is a Governmental agency rather than a NGO involved ??

 

Either way, I hope they are not able to buy their way out of it and, if convicted, get the maximum sentences for their perverted and obnoxious activities.

[Gaybutton]

You've got me confused too. If you're asking why I think if a government organization is behind these arrests, then it will be tougher for these men to buy their way out of it, my answer is because the Thai authorities will be under much greater pressure to try them, convict them, and jail them, rather than the cases somehow vanishing if enough money falls into the right hands and the press will take much greater notice too.

 

Just this evening I did find out, however, that at least one of these men is out on bail, is back in Pattaya, is denying any wrongdoing, intends to remain in Thailand, and intends to fight it in court, so he says, despite the fact that he was in trouble for the same type of activity only a few years ago.

 

If that wasn't the question, then please clarify what you are trying to ask.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I, GB, Bua.. or all are confused. Let's just forget it.

[Guest MonkeySee]

If it's an official governmental organization, then that will make it even more difficult for these "gentlemen" to buy their way out of it. Good!"

More difficult to buy their way out, but not impossible. With the right lawyer and enough money, the witnesses will suddenly disappear. It will take a good amount of cash, but probably not that difficult.

 

[Gaybutton]

More difficult to buy their way out, but not impossible. With the right lawyer and enough money

Ahhh, there's the rub. Enough money. You're talking about an enormous amount, if it's possible.

 

If there are people out there who have that kind of money and are willing to risk losing it, along with the possibility that they can't buy their way out of it, along with what you go through being arrested and held in custody in a Thai jail, along with paying lord-knows-what for bail, along with the probability of going on trial in a 'guilty until proven innocent' country, along with having to deal with the language barrier, along with paying a Thai attorney, along with going through the not knowing what's going to happen to you ordeal, along with the risk of a long sentence to a Thai prison, along with the prospect of being deported and blacklisted, along with the possibility of being tried and imprisoned once again in their home country - if they are willing to risk all that for the sake of getting laid by a 14 year old, then to put it as kindly as I can, I'm glad my thinking, tastes, and priorities are a little different from theirs.

[Guest laurence]

Either way, I hope they are not able to buy their way out of it and, if convicted, get the maximum sentences for their perverted and obnoxious activities.

 

So far I have not read anything specific concerning their activities; not sure if we ever will know all the details.

 

[Guest ezfonzata]

The part that makes it to my "I Don't Get It" list is the fact that pedophiles still take the risk in Thailand. I find it very difficult to make sense out of it considering that so many have been caught and that it is so simple to find legal-age boys who look so much younger than they actually are. Whatever it is that makes them do these things, I just don't understand it.

 

It's very simple...

 

I remember comments I've read/heard from straight people regarding the gay community as a whole: "Why would you want men when there are beautiful women all around?"

 

We're gay, so we prefer men. If we were at all interested in women we'd be straight or bisexual. You think if these guys like the young ones out of choice? No, for the same reason we don't prefer women is the same reason guys like this don't like the 18+ crowd. If they were attracted to legal-aged boys, they wouldn't be involving themselves with the young boys.

 

I'm not defending their actions, but I certainly understand what a difficult and scary life they lead and empathize with them. If they are guilty, then they made the decisions themselves and they are responsible for their actions. If these guys are innocent, well, it would not be the first time innocent people were dragged into a mess like this here.

[Gaybutton]

You think if these guys like the young ones out of choice?

You might very well be right, but there's one slight difference. It's illegal to the point that the consequences can completely ruin one's life. That's why I don't understand why they do it. I just don't see how sexual gratification is worth that kind of risk. I believe they didn't ask to be pedophiles, but they do have the power to make choices as to what they will pursue.

 

You also have to factor in what the world perceives as the negative effects this kind of activity has on children. The way the world sees it, if you want to become a member of a group of people society hates the most, then all you have to do is be caught involved in sex with children.

 

I believe there are a hell of a lot of people out there who are sexually attracted to children and are perhaps incapable of true sexual gratification any other way, but most manage to control themselves and find other outlets that don't involve such serious consequences. If I have sympathy for anyone, it's for the people who do control themselves, but I have none for the ones who don't. My personal perception of them is similar to same perception most of the world holds for them, that they are the scum of the earth.

 

Maybe some day the world will change its attitudes toward pedophiles, but until that day comes the risks are just too great.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

You think if these guys like the young ones out of choice?

 

 

I have to agree with GB. Murderers could use this same argument. "It was just something I had to do. It was in my nature." BS

[Guest fountainhall]

I believe there are a hell of a lot of people out there who are sexually attracted to children and are perhaps incapable of true sexual gratification any other way

 

That's a helluva statement! I wonder what statistics back that up. I am not sure that my group of friends is representative of the average, but I know of absolutely no-one remotely interested in sex with children. I fully accept that there are paedophiles lurking everywhere and many perhaps give the appearance of being outwardly decent and respectable people. But "a hell of a lot"?

 

And is it really "sexual gratification" that attracts adults to such practices? Is it not more akin to rape, where it is control over the victim that is the more powerful urge?

[Guest lvdkeyes]

Is it not more akin to rape, where it is control over the victim that is the more powerful urge?

This is an absolutely proven fact. Rape is a crime of violence, not a sex crime.

[Guest ezfonzata]

And is it really "sexual gratification" that attracts adults to such practices? Is it not more akin to rape, where it is control over the victim that is the more powerful urge?

 

Rape? As the legal term of statutory rape yes, but as for forced sex, I doubt that every single guy out there forces sex on these poor kids - I'd think that none of them would be wandering the streets turning tricks if every encounter they had was as awful as being forcibly raped. It's a supply and demand situation, pure and simple - the world's oldest simplest economic principle.

 

I seem to remember a certain bar that (thankfully) is long gone that was a few doors away from a bar I used to frequent, and the subject of many quiet (and unheeded) complaints to the owner of my bar. This bar was conspicuously hemorrhaging young boys for about two years before the cops finally shut it down, and was transformed into the emptiest hotel in Pattaya. What bothered me about the place (besides what was going on inside) was that I had to walk all the way around the plaza just to go up the block, just to avoid walking in front of it. The point I suppose I'm getting at is that these kids were *always* there, night after night. Whatever socio-economic situation put them in this position, I doubt the relief from which would have been worth being raped every single night. I know I'd rather be hungry and homeless than to be raped against my will night after night.

 

Bottom line here is: Wrong? Absolutely. Rape by its definition? No... and this is ruling out all those euphemistic phrases like "being raped of their innocence" and "having their souls raped".

[Gaybutton]

That's a helluva statement! I wonder what statistics back that up.

I have none to back it up. That's why I said it's what I believe. I have no basis in fact. I have only my personal opinion.

[Guest laurence]

You might very well be right, but there's one slight difference. It's illegal to the point that the consequences can completely ruin one's life.

 

The same can be said about anyone who commits an illegal act whether a sex offense, traffic violation, serial killer, fraud and on and on. It is just human nature and humans are weak creatures. And we all know it is always the other guy that gets caught!

[Gaybutton]

I received a link to the following. I found it quite interesting:

 

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/12/12/...-thai-coup-blog

 

[Guest lvdkeyes]

It occurs to me that some posters here either condone, accept or excuse these pedophiles.

[Guest fountainhall]

I received a link to the following. I found it quite interesting

 

Very interesting. It basically reinforces what we all know: corruption in the criminal justice system seems to be as endemic as in politics.

 

I'd think that none of them would be wandering the streets turning tricks if every encounter they had was as awful as being forcibly raped. It's a supply and demand situation, pure and simple - the world's oldest simplest economic principle

 

My earlier comment about rape was slightly off the mark. I was confusing the recent Pattaya arrests with the arrests in the international child porn ring which occured around the same time. The latter case involved children barely out of nappies which must surely disgust all but a few perverted beasts.

 

That economic circumstances are often to blame in providing supply is an argument which can be used in almost all cases - from parents selling very young kids and turning a blind eye to what might then take place, to young teenagers deciding to 'turn tricks' to provide life's basic necessities - or other temptations. But kids indulging in such acts because they need money to survive does not mean that most will enjoy it. Indeed, on the one occasion when I mistakenly entered a bar (perhaps the one you mention), I saw zombie-like creatures who sparked into life only when it looked like a tip or an off might be the result. So even though sex may technically not be forced upon them, it is, as laurence points out, against the law, it deprives youngsters of at least part of their childhood, it probably leaves them with mental scars that stay with them throughout their lives - and is surely rape in all but name. To my mind, these kids are victims. Older men who consort with them know the penalty for breaking the law and deserve everything that comes to them.

[Guest Geezer]

“This is an absolutely proven fact.”

 

Boy! There aren’t many of those around.

[Guest MonkeySee]

To me, the appropriate punishment for people like that would be to put them in a prison that has a full view of a school playing field. That would be exquisite torture for them. They would be so near, yet so far.

The Canadian in the "swirl" case was sentenced to 3 years and 3 months. Here is part of the story:

A CANADIAN schoolteacher who pleaded guilty to sexually abusing a 13-year-old boy has been sentenced to three years and three months in jail in Thailand.

Vile Christopher Paul Neil, who taught in several Asian countries, was arrested last year following an international manhunt after hundreds of photos of him allegedly engaging in sex acts with young boys were discovered on the internet. The Thai court also imposed a $1,780 fine on the 32-year-old who pleaded guilty on May 12.

 

The full story at: http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/ho...icle1563025.ece

 

[Gaybutton]

The following appears in the BANGKOK POST:

_____

 

Police Step Up the Pressure on Foreign Paedophiles

 

A Male Briton Runs a Website Offering Child Sex in Thailand

 

By: Wassayos Ngamkham

 

A foreign mastermind and at least 20 more foreign paedophiles are being sought under Operation Naga, a joint investigation between the UK's Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre (CEOP) and the Royal Thai Police.

 

Four foreigners and one Thai were arrested on charges of sexually exploiting minors in Pattaya on Dec 11, but the operation is not over yet.

 

On the Thai side, police from the Children, Juveniles and Women Division (CWD) are running the operation.

 

Panya Cha-emtes, an inspector at the CWD, is gathering evidence to arrest other suspected paedophiles who are customers of a male Briton running a website offering child sex in Thailand.

 

''It's an organisation deeply involved in the sex trade with a British man as the mastermind,'' Pol Lt-Col Panya said. ''He contacts customers through a website and has a Thai transvestite procure children for customers, most of whom are Europeans who have businesses in Thailand or retirees who have settled here.''

 

According to the inspector, the British man is a big procurer in Pattaya. However, on the morning of Dec 11 when police arrested four foreign paedophiles there, they did not find any evidence linking them to the mastermind.

 

Operation Naga unfolded on Nov 17 when CEOP representatives took a huge stack of files to CWD chief Pol Maj-Gen Chaiwat Ketworachai.

 

The CWD formed a team of 18 detectives to go after members of the ring, with their inquiries centred in Pattaya.

 

CWD deputy chief Suwitpol Imjairat, who is heading the mission, said the first phase of the operation took place between Nov 17 and 21 when detectives split into three groups to gather information from the abused children and seek out the procurers and suspected paedophiles in Pattaya.

 

Detectives collected enough information to be able to begin the mission's second phase from Nov 24 to 28, when abused children were asked to identify the suspected paedophiles.

 

''This stage had to be carried out carefully because most of the victimised children are normally reluctant to speak out. We worked with difficulty because the parents of some children did not know their children had provided sex services in return for money.''

 

Pol Col Suwitpol said abused children tend to be uneducated, aged seven to 16. Police spent five days interviewing eight abused children, a week before the raid.

 

The children's accounts and other evidence were submitted to the Pattaya court, where police sought arrest warrants for four suspected foreign paedophiles.

 

The alleged Thai transvestite procurer, Eknarin Chaicharoenchokdee, 30, also known as Saeng Kaetdee, was sought on an arrest warrant before that.

 

On Dec 11, five groups of police conducted raids at various locations around Pattaya.

 

They arrested Malcolm Payne, 59, and Robert Horsman, 45, both from Britain, as well as 62-year-old American Robert Lond and 66-year-old German Fritz Blattner.

 

The four were charged with sexually abusing minors, separating the minors from their parents and torturing children physically and mentally.

 

The other group of police reached the residence of the main British procurer suspect, but they did not find any incriminating evidence.

 

At transvestite Eknarin's house, police seized six dildos, photographs of the four foreign suspects allegedly having sex with children, pornographic VCDs and books, a computer hard disk and documents.

 

''Most of the foreigners who bought children from the service have been staying in Thailand for a long time and were frequent customers. They love Thais but they did wrong and broke the law, so we must take action,'' Pol Col Suwitpol said.

 

''Police are monitoring at least 20 more people and seeking warrants for their arrests,'' he said.

 

Police are hunting not only the British ringleader but also three more Thai suspects who allegedly procured children for him.

 

''These gangs exist not only in Pattaya. We believe they are in other major tourist destinations in Thailand as well, including Chiang Mai and Phuket. Countries in the region are exchanging information and we might conduct raids on other tourist spots soon,'' Pol Lt-Col Panya said.

[Guest lvdkeyes]

I, for one, applaud this effort.