Paying for non-performance - clarifications

[12is12]

Hi Guys,

1) Many posters suggested my assertive policy might be petty, mainly because quality is a subjective matter. However, I wasn't referring to normal disappointments, but rather to Sanddunes' and my (and others') experiences of outright cheating like promising to suck and then refusing. THESE GUYS SHOULD NOT BE PAID.

2) I speak only a few words in Portuguese, but I refuse to let that make me a sucker encouraging cheats.

3) I'm fearful of contact with Brazilian police like all here. However, as someone commented - the manager mentioned them first; I just called their bluff. When I clicked on the phone, it was just fake. BTW, had the police arrived, of course I wouldn't have complained to them about the garoto not sucking. My complaint would've been that the manager wouldn't open the door for me (which is a bit like kidnapping).

4) True, my behavior made me persona-non-grata, but I don't want to return there anyway. I've had my share of disappointing programas, and always paid. This was my first (and to date) only cheat in Brazil. I have no wish to return to a sauna where management backs up cheating. 

I urge all of you: DON'T PAY CHEATS. Not in Brazil, not anywhere, and not only regarding sex service.

[SolaceSoul]

You have a right to live your life the way you wish, but as someone who makes a good living doing cost-benefit analyses, I’d call becoming persona non grata at a Sauna with a revolving door of 100s of potential garotos over the loss of what amounts to $30 USD a “phyrric victory”.

In the USA, $30 is two tickets to a bad movie, the price of a cheap pair of jeans at Marshall’s, or a hand car wash without detail.

A simpler solution would be never to hire that guy again. There are plenty other fish in the sea.

[mvan1]

This issue over a small amount of money reminds me of the famous author,  Oscar Wilde, who described a like-kind situation as " a man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

Sorry to be so blunt, but the comments and comparison of SolaceSoul are completely accurate.

The consequences of making an issue over the tiny amount involved are far more costly than the small amount saved.

[Tartegogo]

42 minutes ago, SolaceSoul said:

You have a right to live your life the way you wish, but as someone who makes a good living doing cost-benefit analyses, I’d call becoming persona non grata at a Sauna with a revolving door of 100s of potential garotos over the loss of what amounts to $30 USD a “phyrric victory”.

In the USA, $30 is two tickets to a bad movie, the price of a cheap pair of jeans at Marshall’s, or a hand car wash without detail.

A simpler solution would be never to hire that guy again. There are plenty other fish in the sea.

Agree with SolaceSoul, if losing $30 from time to time is an issue for you, you should find a different hobby.

[floridarob]

7 hours ago, 12is12 said:

 

I urge all of you: DON'T PAY CHEATS. Not in Brazil, not anywhere, and not only regarding sex service.

I'm with you on this...I'm frugal but not cheap.

I'm VERY clear on what I expect AND the price.....we both live up to our agreements, no problems. You think they'd accept us not living up to ours and take less money without an argument...the sword cuts both ways.

Who can fault you for being right....not any reputable place. ONLY one time I had to bring Edgar from Lagoa into it.....he listened to both sides and looked at the boy disappointed and told him "you know better".

I'm in Thailand at the moment, and these kinds of things are more frequent (as it is becoming more common in Cuba too).

Guys in Brasil almost always live up to that end...one time a guy couldn't get hard and he was embarrassed, wouldn't accept any money from me...that's the way it should be when things don't go as planned.

[floridarob]

Ha, so happens I'm in BKK and this EXACT thing happened tonight.

Went to Super A...a place that generally you go off a boy (pay a bar fine of 500 Baht= 15usd approx)

Had a few options...I am VERY clear with the Mamasan of what I am looking for, she's known me for years. Never have had a problem here.

Tonight had a guy that agreed on EVERYTHING. But when we went out, was the complete opposite . He just figured I'd be like all the others and pay him to do nothing and not live up to his deal. I brought him back and did an exchange. The mamasan apologized profusely and I went with someone else (a different story but at least he performed).

Some of these guys is their M.O.  They know for doing NOTHING many farang will pay anyway.

Almost ruined my night and wasted a lot of time.

Anyway...don't put up with it...not only for the monetary value but the time vested!  

[Badboy81]

9 hours ago, floridarob said:

Ha, so happens I'm in BKK and this EXACT thing happened tonight.

Went to Super A...a place that generally you go off a boy (pay a bar fine of 500 Baht= 15usd approx)

Had a few options...I am VERY clear with the Mamasan of what I am looking for, she's known me for years. Never have had a problem here.

Tonight had a guy that agreed on EVERYTHING. But when we went out, was the complete opposite . He just figured I'd be like all the others and pay him to do nothing and not live up to his deal. I brought him back and did an exchange. The mamasan apologized profusely and I went with someone else (a different story but at least he performed).

Some of these guys is their M.O.  They know for doing NOTHING many farang will pay anyway.

Almost ruined my night and wasted a lot of time.

Anyway...don't put up with it...not only for the monetary value but the time vested!  

Where is SuperA, what type of club/bar is it and what type of guys are there?

In BKK next week and interested in checking out places I haven't visited before

Thanks in advance

[floridarob]

Super A is around the corner from Tawan ....walking towards Golden Cock will be in a small alley on the left.

[msclelovr]

Thanks for clarifying 12is12. No-one likes being cheated and I agree that cheats should not be paid.

That said, I would recall the old saying: ‘Discretion is the better part of Valour’. I would never seek to involve the police in Latin America in a dispute - it might well cost you more. 

I was once cheated (in London, not Brazil) by a guy I’d dated 3x before. He got high, would not perform and became aggressive. Unfortunately he was between me and the door when he threatened violence, so I put some money down ($100 equivalent) to draw him away from the door. It worked and I left unharmed.

I got over the bad experience the very next night. I pumped a handsome muscleboy’s butt vigorously, for I had recalled another old saying: ‘If you’re thrown off a horse, get back in the saddle pronto’.

[Badboy81]

9 hours ago, Badboy81 said:

what type of club/bar is it and what type of guys are there?

 

[axiom2001]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:54 AM, SolaceSoul said:

A simpler solution would be never to hire that guy again. There are plenty other fish in the sea.

I wholeheartedly concur!  That is the best and more simple of solutions to the problem!

[floridarob]

4 hours ago, Badboy81 said:

 

It's just a bar where you go in and pick a guy, not the type that has shows or to hang around and drink.

 

The guys are from Thailand (farm type, no English), Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos.....usually decent guys to hang out for the night. Have had good luck there in the past. 500 off fee and 1000 min tip to the guy. 

Make sure the guy has ID (not for underage) many are from provinces and just arrived in BKK and don't have ID....safer if they have ID, imo

[Badboy81]

2 hours ago, floridarob said:

It's just a bar where you go in and pick a guy, not the type that has shows or to hang around and drink.

 

The guys are from Thailand (farm type, no English), Vietnam, Myanmar, Laos.....usually decent guys to hang out for the night. Have had good luck there in the past. 500 off fee and 1000 min tip to the guy. 

Make sure the guy has ID (not for underage) many are from provinces and just arrived in BKK and don't have ID....safer if they have ID, imo

Ill pass..not my type...I have got lucky on Grindr 2 times on my past trips and try to limit going to the gay areas...I get harassed by the twinky Thai gays

[floridarob]

Grindr boys (or any app) can be hit or miss. Many use fake pics or ones that have been photo shopped...many are high on drugs. I like to see in real life how they look, talk, etc....but there are good ones too, just gotta filter through their shit and attitude.

The gogo bars are way overpriced.

Thailand ISN'T Brasil.....I love Thai food, no Thai restaurant in the world has the same flavors as the food here. Also massage...I go to "straight" massage places and pick the cutest guy and usually get their contact info. They end up in my room that night or the next day.

DJ Station....no more, I've "lost" enough phones there to have finally learned my lesson.

[Badboy81]

6 minutes ago, floridarob said:

Grindr boys (or any app) can be hit or miss. Many use fake pics or ones that have been photo shopped...many are high on drugs. I like to see in real life how they look, talk, etc....but there are good ones too, just gotta filter through their shit and attitude.

Interesting experiences you have had....this will be my 4th trip to BKK within a year...

I met a HOT muscular Thai guy off Grindr and tried my last time to meet him again

My first trip I went to a sauna there...total waste of time fo rme

My last trip I met a hot Algerian tourist that I fucked...

I prefer the massages, shopping and food....

Definitely havent been impressed by the Thais in a sexual way but there are tons of other things to do in BKK....And there is always Rio next month!

[floridarob]

As much as I complain about the sex in Thailand, there is something that draws me back and I have had some very good encounters, just the success rate is about 60% in BKK 40% in Pattaya vs 99.9% in Brasil. Cuba at one time was up there with Brasil, now I'd say is at about 60-70%, sadly.

I came here 3 times last year and been coming for nearly 20 yrs....Brasil, I lost count, started in 1999 and in 2004 I was there almost full time for 2 yrs.

What sauna did you go to , Babylon?
Look up Sauna Mania or R3

[Guest parisrio2000]

Isn't there a consumer board that you can report them to?

[Badboy81]

19 hours ago, floridarob said:

As much as I complain about the sex in Thailand, there is something that draws me back and I have had some very good encounters, just the success rate is about 60% in BKK 40% in Pattaya vs 99.9% in Brasil. Cuba at one time was up there with Brasil, now I'd say is at about 60-70%, sadly.

I came here 3 times last year and been coming for nearly 20 yrs....Brasil, I lost count, started in 1999 and in 2004 I was there almost full time for 2 yrs.

What sauna did you go to , Babylon?
Look up Sauna Mania or R3

Yeap....Babylon....

Are either of the other two different?

Are they mainly locals?

[floridarob]

11 hours ago, Badboy81 said:

Yeap....Babylon....

Are either of the other two different?

Are they mainly locals?

Completely different, I stopped going to babylon....you've been , so no need to explain why.

Sauna Mania is Asian on Asian...95% of the time, but is worth it...soooo many naked young cute guys walking around. I've had some great times there.

[Badboy81]

9 hours ago, floridarob said:

Completely different, I stopped going to babylon....you've been , so no need to explain why.

Sauna Mania is Asian on Asian...95% of the time, but is worth it...soooo many naked young cute guys walking around. I've had some great times there.

And the other one you mentioned?

[Badboy81]

9 hours ago, floridarob said:

Sauna Mania is Asian on Asian...95% of the time, but is worth it

When is a good time or day to go here?

Thanks in advance

[floridarob]

3 hours ago, Badboy81 said:

And the other one you mentioned?

R3....I've never been, I'm lazy to go too far (other than the other side of the world,lol) to go, but according to everyone I know that has been, they say is good.

3 hours ago, Badboy81 said:

When is a good time or day to go here?

Thanks in advance

They open at 3pm....when it starts to get dark or after the discos close. You can call their number to ask what the event is that night, Naked night, underwear only (no boxers), small towel night, etc...

Naked night is my favorite

[sanddunes]

After a nice stretch of non-problematic garotos, the non-performance issue reared its ugly head again tonight at 117 (this continues to only happen at 117, I’ve yet to encounter this at 202.)

Basically what happened is I arranged 120 with him being activo, gozar and kissing.  We went to the cabin, and right off the bat he refused to kiss and after very brief oral (3-4 minutes) he came.  Then he put his towel on and wanted payment.

This was my first time dealing with this particular scam, and I have read about it before on this board (he knew exacty what he was doing but pretended to be confused why I was upset)

I basically gave him a 50 real note and told him to fuck off.  He threatened that he “would cause a problem for me” (wow, suddenly he speaks english!)

I just left.  I went and talked to a garoto I’m friends with and told him what happened.  He said that garoto does that all the time and then laughs about it.

So just a warning to everyone to be aware of this scam.  

Luckily it was a free suite night, so I got one of my regulars and carried on with the night..

[sanddunes]

To finish this unpleasant story:  upon checkout there were 100 reals worth of drink and food charges added to my bill by the scammer garoto and also an unexpected 40 real late room charge.

Fortunately I had anticipated something like this could happen, and had already spoken to the manager when the garoto stomped off with my cabin key instead of giving it to me to hand in (the garoto no doubt turned it in late on purpose to trigger the room charge)

When the charges came up I asked for the manager again and he immediately took them off the bill...

It is worth noting I had never before seen this garoto at 117 and he was visiting from Salvador.  I doubt one of the local garotos would have been so bold. 

[msclelovr]

Sorry to read this, but I think it would help other visitors if you will name and describe the garoto. Then others can avoid him.