Solidarity for Bruce Weber & Mario Testino

[Gotti]

Is about time the gay community to express solidarity towards Bruce Weber & Mario Testino, victims of a vicious campaign by the New York Times. Unlike Weinstein there was no rape involved, harassment is no reason to finish a true artist career. Where is Calvin, Tom Ford and all major designers? Modeling is not the pharmaceutical industry, a tough skin should come with the territory. Weber, Testino and others that spent their lives enhancing the male body, we are with you!

[BiBottomBoy]

I don't think straight people understand gay sex.

Women are so fucking squeemish about stuff  that it's ridiculous.

So they assume male bottoms are the same - when really, we are still men.

[Gotti]

Will all due respect, I believe it goes beyond gay sex, is a relation between the artist and his muse, some flirting and often a little more should be expected for an outstanding work. If there is no rape or excessive abuse it should be fine. Models there are too sensitive should look for a banking job or something. Some seducing between artist and muse comes from the beginning of civilization, with often great results.

[Lucky]

Sorry, but I can't agree. Young men with a desire to advance their careers are preyed upon by older men who may offer help if they can get the guy naked. A photographer has no more right to violate a person's personal boundaries than anyone else.

[BiBottomBoy]

8 minutes ago, Gotti said:

Will all due respect, I believe it goes beyond gay sex, is a relation between the artist and his muse, some flirting and often a little more should be expected for an outstanding work. If there is no rape or excessive abuse it should be fine. Models there are too sensitive should look for a banking job or something. Some seducing between artist and muse comes from the beginning of civilization, with often great results.

 

This.

[Suckrates]

Although it pains me, I have to agree with Lucky...  Some people are just PREDATORS !  

[BiBottomBoy]

I'm a fan of predators.

[Gotti]

I think predators go for it just for the sake of sex, the photographers are looking for a moment of beauty, much appreciated by their audiences and their employers. Sometimes they get some fringe benefits, but that's the name of the game. Predators go way farther than that for an instant gratification only enjoyed by themselves. 

[MsGuy]

I suspect we are in the middle of a cultural re-set of the boundaries of acceptable courting behavior.  Hopefully those whacky, ultra PC university consent codes don't make it to the finish line. Hopefully we don't back-peddle to the "no witness, no bruises, no rape" standard.

But Gotti, wherever we wind up, I fail to see why the boundaries for an "Artiste" should be different from those for priests, doctors, politicians or just plain regular folks.

"I'm looking for a moment of beauty,"

"So bend over, bitch boy, and spread 'em wide."

[Guest Larstrup]

12 minutes ago, MsGuy said:

I suspect we are in the middle of a cultural re-set of the boundaries of acceptable courting behavior.  Hopefully those whacky, ultra PC university consent codes don't make it to the finish line. Hopefully we don't back-peddle to the "no witness, no bruises, no rape" standard.

But Gotti, wherever we wind up, I fail to see why the boundaries for an "Artiste" should be different from those for priests, doctors, politicians or just plain regular folks.

"I'm looking for a moment of beauty,"

"So bend over, bitch boy, and spread 'em wide."

You’re dating older men now? 

[Gotti]

Models get naked for artists for many centuries, if doing it brings a life-time trauma they are in the wrong job.

[MsGuy]

Altar boys have been serving priests for centuries. If doing it brings a life-time trauma they are in the wrong job.

??????

[tassojunior]

The art of "flirting" is fun and no real harm. It can be good humor without being insulting. But I doubt nothing but flirting is involved.

The real harm is missed in the comments. Male or female the real harm comes from those eager to "put out" to land a job, taking jobs away from those who won't or for whom the boss isn't as keen for. This has always been an important part of sexual harassment: loss by those who aren't sexually involved. For every victim of pure sexual harassment, there are ten applicants more than eager to do whatever it takes to land the job. Even in a field that involves sexual titillation, it should be more than about who puts out.  

[BiBottomBoy]

I think there needs to be different rules for the straight and gay communities

[Gotti]

The type of photography we are talking about, the photographer is basically paid to sell titillation, by fashion designers and advertisers and his work is considered successfull by the intensity of subliminal arousal they provoke. Barring rape and unwanted touching everything else is fair game. The NYT article doesn't report any rape and the touching, according with the paper, stopped when the models objected. The whole thing is just is an organization sensationalizing a regular practice,  to sell newspapers  that ironically makes money publishing advertising with the same photography they hypocritically condemn. 

[BiBottomBoy]

Yep. And it's based on straight girl standards which in practice are much more prudish th an dudes.

[tassojunior]

Two equally good looking male models strangers to the photographer. The one who voluntarily has sex with the photographer gets the job or is paid much more. 

99% of the time that's how sexual harassment happens even though we don't think of it that way.

[AdamSmith]

1 hour ago, tassojunior said:

Two equally good looking male models strangers to the photographer. The one who voluntarily has sex with the photographer gets the job or is paid much more. 

99% of the time that's how sexual harassment happens even though we don't think of it that way.

We may not think of it that way simply because it's not.

in circa late '70s-early '80s, as an undergraduate it entertained me to flirt with and try to seduce some of my male professors in their 30s (the ones still in their 20s were generally still too tender and uncertain). And a couple or three  of us had a very good time.

Vithout ze Provost having to know! 

[BiBottomBoy]

Yeah. I mean that's the t hing.

Maybe one of them is able to do more for the job.

[Lucky]

Gotti: : The NYT article doesn't report any rape and the touching, according with the paper, stopped when the models objected. "

 

Did the models not object because of the power dynamic? They could envision their careers going down if they didn't go down. Best to suck it up rather than return to McDonald's.

[Gotti]

It's essential a rapport between the photographer and his subject on this line of work. If the model expect the same environment he would get in a banking job, maybe he should apply for a banking job, this profession is certainly not for everyone, wonder why most photographers of male models are gay? All photographers of girlie mags (Playboy, etc), are straight? Funnily, the latter case does not raise any eyebrows.  I think that says more than it should...

[AdamSmith]

On 1/16/2018 at 9:07 AM, BiBottomBoy said:

I'm a fan of predators.

We are all whores. And self-conscious, acutely self-aware, self-protecting beings (H. sapiens is 2 million years old).

(And still going, notwithstanding Trump.)

WTF with all this political mental feces?

 

[AdamSmith]

Again...

 

[BiBottomBoy]

Gotti, actually a lot of photogs for girly magazines are gay.