Americans Are So Weird

[BiBottomBoy]

A school is in trouble because a teacher showed students classical paintings.

Some of them showed people's butts.

https://news.hjnews.com/logan_hj/teacher-parents-weigh-in-on-nude-artwork-incident/article_cbcb8316-9f6e-56b7-93c1-14807cc595a9.html

[MsAnn]

Puritans still lurk among us in the closets. Regardless of what he did or did not say, Rueda acted improperly. It's not up to me or you, or Rueda, or anyone else when nudity is exposed to their sixth grade child. That job belongs to the parents.

 

[BiBottomBoy]

Can you elaborate?

[RA1]

Unless parents start much earlier than 11-12 years old, the children will have already been "exposed" to nudity.  Unfortunately we have children of that approximate age who are parents themselves.  They probably were exposed to nudity at some point. 

PC has completely run amok.  Do as I say, not as I do.

Best regards,

RA1

[AdamSmith]

12 hours ago, MsAnn said:

Puritans still lurk among us in the closets. Regardless of what he did or did not say, Rueda acted improperly. It's not up to me or you, or Rueda, or anyone else when nudity is exposed to their sixth grade child. That job belongs to the parents.

You really think?

My fourth-grade class went on a very enjoyable school-bus outing to the N.C. Museum of Art (this was1969) and saw plenty of classical nudity on canvas. The very good docent explained all the classical mythology, etc. behind it. We all enjoyed it and learned from it very much.

It was not any news or surprise to us that classical art had nudity in it, even when we were that young. None of us thought anything of it.

Maybe what is really objectionable here is the sub-basement standards to which U.S. public education has sunk.

And, as noted above, PC run amok. As is also happening with 'trigger warnings' squelching discourse and true learning across U.S. college campuses today.

[MsAnn]

“My son felt that Mr. Mateo belittled them,” Pixton said. “He said Mr. Mateo even told the class ‘There’s nothing wrong with female nipples. You guys need to grow up and be mature about this.’”

Rueda flatly denies he said this or took such a tone.

 

 Did Rueda say this? We don't really know for sure. My point is that IF this was said, then in my opinion Rueda handled this improperly, and perhaps his teaching skills might be lacking.

 

Happy New Year to everyone.

[AdamSmith]

Ah! IF he said that, then agreed he has a big problem.

[BiBottomBoy]

9 hours ago, AdamSmith said:

You really think?

My fourth-grade class went on a very enjoyable school-bus outing to the N.C. Museum of Art (this was1969) and saw plenty of classical nudity on canvas. The very good docent explained all the classical mythology, etc. behind it. We all enjoyed it and learned from it very much.

It was not any news or surprise to us that classical art had nudity in it, even when we were that young. None of us thought anything of it.

Maybe what is really objectionable here is the sub-basement standards to which U.S. public education has sunk.

And, as noted above, PC run amok. As is also happening with 'trigger warnings' squelching discourse and true learning across U.S. college campuses today.

Yep. People are insane today.

Art has nudity in it.

People should deal.

[MsAnn]

13 hours ago, BiBottomBoy said:

Yep. People are insane today.

Art has nudity in it.

People should deal.

Not to belabor the point, but....children are people too.

[AdamSmith]

2 hours ago, MsAnn said:

Not to belabor the point, but....children are people too.

To be blunt (please forgive), I think that view comes from the infantilization of children that, in essence, originated in mid- to late Victorian times, specifically in England.

For the 120,000 years of H. sapiens' existence prior, 'children' were understood as equal members of society. Capable of widely independent, and 'responsible', action -- hunting game on par with their 'elders', running and playing together responsibly without 'adult supervision', indeed groups of 'children' with no adult accompaniment at all going out and successfully taking down very big -- and dangerous -- game to feed the tribe -- need I go on?

I myself grew up in a 1960s-suburban translation of same. Which came from parents being farm-family types, where such behavior of children was taken for granted. In summer, out of school, after breakfast our parents gave no thought to our going out of the house and disappearing -- into the nearby woods, into other friends' houses, what did it matter? -- until lunchtime at home. And then back out again.

From age five, my parents assumed I knew how to keep myself alive through whatever kind of (again, summertime school vacation) entertainment out-of-doors I found interesting.

Including that they assumed I knew how not to be shot by the fairly numerous deer-hunters who peopled the thick woods behind our subdivision  all through the fall and winter! (I knew to buy bright-red winter coats.  )

Point is: We are all being infantilized into the state where we could elect [yes, given all the irregularities etc.] our current Orange Orangutang.

[AdamSmith]

P.S. In those times, individual children introduced themselves into sexual activity when they were ready.

But, from open living, seeing their parents fuck right in front of them, from living in one-room dwellings (my own maternal grandmother, the sturdiest personality structure I have ever met, affirmed that fact of life), they are not traumatized by the realities of the body, or sex, or procreation. It is a welcome part of life as social beings.

They are alive to all of life.

/End of sermon.

[AdamSmith]

2 minutes ago, AdamSmith said:

/End of sermon.

 

[RA1]

As  you very well know, "early" children were viewed as extra hands to provide labor and whatever else they could to help support the family.  I am not so sure that they were thought to be independent as they were provided benign neglect.  

As to your upbringing, was it as you describe or were you (as was I) a product of simpler times when we could play outside until called in by our parents?  

Best regards,

RA1

[TotallyOz]

I remember being in 7th Grade and going to the Smithsonian and seeing nudes but no one every had an issue with it.  I hail from Alabama. I think today's culture is going backwards instead of forwards. Sad.

[AdamSmith]

17 minutes ago, RA1 said:

As  you very well know, "early" children were viewed as extra hands to provide labor and whatever else they could to help support the family.  I am not so sure that they were thought to be independent as they were provided benign neglect.  

As to your upbringing, was it as you describe or were you (as was I) a product of simpler times when we could play outside until called in by our parents?  

Best regards,

RA1

1. Providing labor to eat & survive is not objectionable to me. Regardless of age.

2. 'Benign neglect' was exactly my outdoor existence in childhood. (Not indoor, but then we were allowed to go outdoors time we wanted. Without any prior notice. It was simply understood that children would run out of house and play with each other. Or in the yard or neighborhood by themselves.)

3. We did not even go in until called five, six or seven times by our parents. 

[MsAnn]

Never mind...

[AdamSmith]

26 minutes ago, MsAnn said:

Never mind...

Good.

[BiBottomBoy]

Yeah. I grew up in the 70s and 80s and was pretty much told "go outside" as soon as I came  home from school and not to come home until dinner.

[RA1]

At least you grew up (presumably). 

Best regards,

RA1

[BiBottomBoy]

Not at all

[tassojunior]

The Orange Orangutan is not the cause. He's a symptom. Southerners especially have always felt this way. And it's totally fake. Teens have sex after bible study on Sunday nights. District Attorneys have sex with 14 year olds. And they marry interrelated families. 

Trump's just playing to the audience.

[AdamSmith]

4 hours ago, tassojunior said:

The Orange Orangutan is not the cause. He's a symptom. Southerners especially have always felt this way. And it's totally fake. Teens have sex after bible study on Sunday nights. District Attorneys have sex with 14 year olds. And they marry interrelated families. 

And the problem is...? 

 

[Guest Larstrup]

The damaging vehicle of those denying or sheltering exposure onto those, the kids, which the acknowledged of those kids come from; those being the core of our human (dis) or (function), in the world of which we all live, when you're old enough for a field-trip, is just another reason why many end up claiming mental heath defect - after the damage is already done - which they - the elders - we're complicit in to begin with.

Our human life experience, is a past-cycle of our worst and our best life influences. The cycle will never be perfect. Nor will it get much better until stories like this become non-existent.

[MsGuy]

5 hours ago, Larstrup said:

Our human life experience, is a past-cycle of our worst and our best life influences. The cycle will never be perfect. Nor will it get much better until stories like this become non-existent.

On the other hand, Freud claimed that sexual repression was the foundation of all civilization. 

On a more practical level, I suspect most of us here get wound up about sexual repression only because the particular forms of repression deployed by folks around us happen to grind on our personal inclinations.

[BiBottomBoy]

3 hours ago, MsGuy said:

On the other hand, Freud claimed that sexual repression was the foundation of all civilization. 

On a more practical level, I suspect most of us here get wound up about sexual repression only because the particular forms of repression deployed by folks around us happen to grind on our personal inclinations.

For me the repression makes doing it all that much better.