Porto Alegre & Curitiba - Nov/Dec 2017 - a memoir.

[PopeFrancis]

Like many, I’ve really enjoyed reading Tartegogo’s account of his tour through South America. 

 

I also write fairly detailed accounts of my trips which I WhatsApp to my best friend back in Europe.  So, after a bit of editing and a bit of encouragement from Tartegogo, here’s my fourth trip – which was to Porto Alegre and Curitiba… with a bit of Sao Paulo thrown in at the end.  The trip was between November/December 2017.

 

I ought to point out that I’ve changed a few names or used their “Mezzaninu name” (but if you recognize anyone I’ll happily confirm it to you).  I have a sort of special relationship with an ex-garoto Fabio (I’ve had him come to Paris with me).  I have a few regulars who join me for nights… Leandro and Marcus.

 

I’m late 40’s, a total top.  And I really like very thin and lean guys.  Passive.  Any age.  Protruding ears are a bonus.  (so I guess that makes me a bit different to most clients)

Sometimes I go with a guy just to be able to take his photo and send it to my friend (who likes muscular tops).

I stay in an apartment.  I hire a car.  I’ve already done everything a tourist can do in Porto Alegre. 

I can now speak a little Portuguese (but have had no trouble with Google Translate conversations in the past)

 

In Porto Alegre, the main saunas are Mezzaninu and Plataforma. 

The cruising bar is Bar Mixx.

The after club is Indiscetus.

If you’re up for more, the after-after-club is Sexy Vicio (where everyone’s for sale – and someone once offered to pay me for sex!) – but I didn’t go there this time.

 

I’m quite shy and not very forward.

I always say 100R$. 

I always take a photo. 

I have two friends that I speak to – an American called Tom (no not that one) and a Mexican-American guy called Roberto.

I probably use the words “adorable”, “incredibly” and “amazing” too much

 

As I say, this is my fourth trip.  What I’m finding is that the evenings spent with the guys I know (or I’m getting to know) are much more fulfilling than the sauna experiences.

 

There’s plently of opportunity for the pearl-clutchers to be outraged… yes I pay too much… yes I lavish too many gifts… yes I’m happy to push some boundaries if the garoto seems willing.  But fucking is always with a condom.

 

So if you’re feeling a bit bored and want to read about guys being hunted down in Porto Alegre, here it is.  It's a bit long so I'll divide it into four installments I think.

If nothing else, the section about Curitiba highlights a scene that isn’t talked about much on here.

 

And no, I didn’t have Tartegogo’s Bruno!

[PopeFrancis]

Day 1: Thursday – Porto Alegre

 

I've officially chosen the worst car hire company in POA – FOCO!... wait ages for the FOCO shuttle bus... then the women in the office faff around… their ethos seems to be "if you keep going on and on about insurance in Portuguese  eventually he’ll buy it".  I won't and I don't. 

 

The weather is terrible. Grey with tropical rain.

The traffic is terrible.  Every road seemed blocked between 4 and 7.   

I've never seen it this bad.

 

Mezzaninu seems subdued.  Slightly more boys and slightly more clients than I remember on a Thursday night... the lights are turned down.  I don’t know if this is to make the clients seem more appealing.

Will they ever stop playing that “Madonna in Concert” video?

 

Gustavo

Pretty. But it's an ordeal.  Has to have the television on (straight porn). Tentative kisses.  Looks at my penis as if I’ve got leprosy and suggests we “tomar bano”. .. so then we're standing in the shower and he's soaping my dick like he's scrubbing up for surgery.... of course by now it's all a recovery mission... some halfer-than-half-hearted sucking... back to the bed for a finale of sorts... but for me, it's more a final countdown...

Didn't ask him any questions... I couldn't care less

He'd asked for 80.

I paid him 120.

Yes too much... but it’s probably the least I've ever paid.

 

Felipe

Distinctive look... beautiful long neck... going bald… Roberto tells him to give me a very very good time... he's probably a better top... kisses are better 3/10... he makes no effort to suck 0/10... instead he's making me suck him! 2/10... he gets fucked... with fake moans... it’s like fucking a resuscitation dummy.

He asked 100

I paid 120

 

Julhano

This is a repeat with a guy from last time.  He's bigger and gay.

Now he's leaner... and now he tells me he's not gay!

Says he’s got a wife… that she’s taken his phone…

It's ok. He kisses well. He sucks well. He takes it. He flops with poppers.  But he rallies at the end for a gozar.

It's good but I think I was already a bit fed up.

I give him a pair of Armani briefs that I’d arranged to get him before I arrived.

 

Fabio

It's belting with rain.

I drive 5 miles out of POA to what is one step up from a shanty town... Waze describes my destination as an "unnamed road".

Fabio is waiting... excited... happy... I get to see his shop "The Village"... meet his best friend Samuel... it's wonderful.

 

Fabio and I head to McDonalds. We meet one of his "fans" from when Fabio was a singer.  Fabio cannot remember his name... but he's gay and cute... and with his boyfriend!

 

Fabio and I get to the apartment. Fabio still very happy.  He has an erection!  It's a lovely night. 

There seems genuine passion.

 

He seems to have lots of plans... basically me and him every night.  I'll text him.

 

It's nice.

Uber home 26R.

 

Day 2: Friday - Porto Alegre

is much better.!

 

It's Friday!... that means get your vaccination regime up to date... swallow an antihistamine... and off to Plataforma!

…Purge your thoughts of the life you knew before…

 

Plataforma

There are about 3 clients and 10 garotos.

I'm mostly sitting alone in their main room.

Chris Issac is belting out “Wicked game”

He’s always singing this when I’m here.

 

Then one guy comes, introduces himself and sits next to me... this time I make a point of translating 

"Do you kiss?"

"Do you suck?"

"Do you get fucked?"

...and with a "yes", we head off...

 

Rodrigo

My height... very lean... tattoos... and he does everything... and his kissing is passionate!  His showstopper is his absolutely ENORMOUS penis... which he doesn't force on me but it demands further attention....  actually it probably demands a sauna for itself... 

He is good.

Agreed 100

Paid 120

 

The next guy is walking around a bit... then he’s sitting at a table having a drink with a client... I position myself... unsubtlely in his line of vision... they are chatting away... then... they don't go off to a room together!!!...

 

Five minutes later he's sitting with me... and another client has positioned himself in his line of vision!...

 

Henrique

Is quite simply handsome.

Not muscular... or skinny... just a beautiful face... and very friendly... and speaks a little English because he once worked in the Sheraton.

 

He says he is more passive...

 

He kisses... he sucks... he gets fucked... he never gets hard...

I ask why?... he says because he's being passive... 

Following a special request... he rises... and ejaculates!

Lovely guy.

 

Gives me his number... says he's been advertising himself on Vivalocal for 4 days... 

 

To check his number is working, I text "Oi"... and despite the fact he is lying next to me, butt naked with no phone, back comes the reply "Oi"!

How come? I ask...

He's left his phone with his brother so that his brother can respond to messages from any prospective clients!!!

 

Agreed 100

Paid 120

 

Plataforma: unbelievably good! (what’s happened???)

(and still unbelievably dirty)

I leave.

 

Arrive at Mezzaninu at 7.30pm.  It's raining again.

 

There is a group of 3 Filipino Americans sitting with some boys. 

They certainly have a "type"... I guess the term "jock" sums it up.

 

I chat with Roberto.

I meet Marcelo again.

Roberto and I go to the roof.

Free churrasco on the roof.

 

Then I see him... the cutest guy by a million miles... 

But is he with a client???

 

He exits.

I give him 2 minutes.

I go down

And catch him coming back up!

 

Quick questions!

Passivo? (of course he is!) etc etc

We get a room...

 

Guillerme

Good kisser.

He sucks.

He is as cute as it comes.

But his position of choice has a blue whale spooning with a pixie (I'm far too old for this Cirque de Soleil)

He wants to do Radiology at college.  His last day in POA is tomorrow before he goes on holiday...

 

Later that night, Fabio comes over... we go out to Bar Mixx.  It's terrible.  Half of it (where the pool table was) has been blocked off.  The garotos that are strutting around are all really tall.  We leave. 

Night with Fabio drinking a bottle of white Martini I've bought him.

 

 

Day 3: Saturday at Mezzaninu.

I pick up Tom who's just arrived

Mezzaninu is busy.

I go to work...

 

First stop:

Repeat with Guillerme

Great kisser.  Beautiful smooth skin.  Sucks. Gets fucked.  Does what it says on the tin.

Today is his last day here before going on holiday.

 

Matteus-Henrique

Having seen him enter whilst I was waiting for a key for the first room, he quickly went to the top of my "to do" list.

I'd seen him on vivalocal so expected him to say he was called Henrique.

But instead he called himself Matteus.

He's 18.

Beautiful eyes.

Poor kisser but sucks and takes it.

He is saving money because he would like to be a doctor.

Asked 100

Paid 120

 

Gustavo

Wears a maroon t-shirt because it's cold.  He says he'll do it all.  And he does.  And he's as skinny as they come.  If bad teeth street urchin is your type - then Gustavo is your man.

He came whilst I was fucking him which is exciting.

Then I try to talk with him.  He cannot give me a WhatsApp number because he has no phone.  He seems to find reading difficult... and he's not drawn into a Google translate conversation.

Asked 100

Paid 150

 

Gianni

Gianni is a trooper.

I’ve always known of Gianni.  He was the garoto’s go-to guy when they needed a bottom for duos.  Last time I was here, Tom watched Julhano fuck Gianni. .. and even I've had the 'pleasure' of watching Lucas the straight guy with the massive Angel wings tattoo fuck Gianni (which I wasn’t so keen on).

But we’ve never spoken.

 

In the run up to this trip, I’d messaged Julhano... I planned to buy him some cuecas (underpants) and, because I'm guessing he's not a small, felt it best to ask... and he comes back with Armani, medium, black.  And I’d given him them on the first day as a sort of thank you for the last trip.

So it came as a bit of a surprise when, in the run up to this trip…and out-of-the-blue, I’m messaged by Gianni (someone I've never been with) advertising his services.

 

I already know from Facebook that:

1) He's gay

2) He's friends with everyone

3) He seems very happy and funny

(Unlike every time I've seen him where I think he's fairly masculine)

 

Anyway we’ve already agreed to meet!

So I come down the stairs... and there he is... I pretend to ask him his name... agree 100... and off we go...

And it's brilliant.   He kisses, he sucks, I fuck him for what seems like ages, he's pouring with sweat.  It seems like something close to passion. We both cum.

He's training to be a fireman.

I ask what underwear he likes?... Calvin Klein... Andrew Christian (the brand that Marcus refuses to wear because it's like walking on a beach and advertising that you are "passivo"!)... and he's medium... which may be a problem.

Agreed 100

Paid 150

 

Repeat with Gustavo

Some boys clearly have difficulty getting clients... and the "I'll steal your wallet" look doesn't really go down well.  Gustavo is clearly in this bracket.  He's also getting drunk.

He's asking for another go (I suspect I might be his only client as he's done a lot of table hopping tonight)... OK then if I must…

He does it all again.  He's rough, skinny and eager.  He cums again.

Agreed 100

Paid 120

 

Fabio

I drive out to the scary neighbourhood of Mario Quintana. And meet Fabio in his shop.  We're going to go for something to eat... and where better than his brother’s hotdog van!?... which has now moved to the safety of his brother's front patio. So down a side street in the middle of 'unnamed road'… I'm eating a hotdog.  I'm meeting his brother Roberto and Roberto's wife Veronica (who dances in the carnival)... two dogs are barking in the street… and it's just lovely.  Fabio seems so happy that I'm there.  He's still posting pictures of Paris and London on Facebook (I think how annoying must that be to his friends?)

 

We drive to Bar Mixx (worse than Friday)... then on to Indiscretus... which is on the empty side.  We both dance a little.

Then back to the apartment for white Martini (his choice)... and lots of sex.... always ending with us thanking one another.

[Tartegogo]

This is gold. I love it. 

[geodesic]

Tartegogo and PopeFrancis, thank you both for you exceptionally helpful posts which I have perused with interest.

 

I will be visiting Brazil for 12 days in April - I am still trying to decide if I should include PA and Curtiba in my itinerary, and so had a few questions:

 

1. I note you have referred to vivalocal in your OP - have you sourced GPs from there before? Some of the GPs advertised on that website are stunning. Do you think this is safe? 

 

2. I have gathered from the various posts on this forum that the GPs in PA tend to be light skinned atleast compared with those in Rio/Sao Paulo (this is something I have a slight preference for) - is this something you also noticed? 

 

3. What proportion of GPs are muscular tops at Mezzaninu and Plataforma?

 

4. On a separate note, what touristy things did you do in PA/Curitiba?  

 

Thanks! 

[PopeFrancis]

7 hours ago, geodesic said:

Tartegogo and PopeFrancis, thank you both for you exceptionally helpful posts which I have perused with interest.

 

I will be visiting Brazil for 12 days in April - I am still trying to decide if I should include PA and Curtiba in my itinerary, and so had a few questions:

 

1. I note you have referred to vivalocal in your OP - have you sourced GPs from there before? Some of the GPs advertised on that website are stunning. Do you think this is safe? 

 

2. I have gathered from the various posts on this forum that the GPs in PA tend to be light skinned atleast compared with those in Rio/Sao Paulo (this is something I have a slight preference for) - is this something you also noticed? 

 

3. What proportion of GPs are muscular tops at Mezzaninu and Plataforma?

 

4. On a separate note, what touristy things did you do in PA/Curitiba?  

 

Thanks! 

1)  vivalocal - I think it's as reliable as any online advertised escort anywhere... I'd only bother hiring anyone who had put some effort into their advert (real photos etc)... and came across as helpful when you contact them.  I'm mostly aware of the POA adverts... many of the adverts belong to sauna boys who you can hire in the sauna for a fraction of their online prices.  Later you'll see my experiences with 2 online hires!

2) light skins - yes it's fairly normal (90%) in POA and Curitiba... but from my memory there's plenty in Sao Paulo too if you just decide to go there.

3) muscular tops - are not really something I look for but there are muscular guys in POA.  More likely in Mezzaninu.  That said, SP and RDJ have much higher proportions of jaw-dropping "God-like" guys wandering by.

4) touristy things - POA is mainly about art galleries - every two years it hosts a South American Bienial - and it begins on 5th April 2018!... there are some great permanent galleries and the incredibly sad Iberê Camargo Foundation (an ultra modern riverside landmark gallery that has been a financial flop and is now only open on Friday afternoons)... Curitba has a load of tourist destinations (I'll mention them later) but you have to weight it up against what else is on offer in Curitiba.

[PopeFrancis]

Day 4 - Sunday in Mezzaninu

 

(after Tom and I go hunting for a McDonalds for Tom)

About 8 garotos, 15 clients... it should be a sellers market but it's the same old sellers faces...

I chat with Roberto

I chat with Tom

The usual boys who sit with the Filipinos are not there. 

One boy is standing in for them all. 

 

Alex

Roberto (who is looking out for me)... has sent Alex to hunt me down...

We all agree Alex's indigenous look is not his best feature.  But he is lean and golden skinned.

And.... he's unbelievably good.... he's got the passionate kisses... he sucks.... he enjoys being sucked.... he gets fucked.... and does all the work... he's really good.

He will be a repeat.

Asked 100

Paid 150

 

Bruno

I'm now doing a "Tom's Super Saver Sunday" whereby you don't hand the room key back (we've worked out that they're lax on time keeping here)... and you grab boy number 2 and whisk him into the room you've already got!

So this is 50 for just kisses with Tom of Finland lookalike Bruno.  He's totally active and won't suck... so kisses was as far as I'd get.

And he's rubbish at that.

It’s like kissing the Blarney Stone.

 

That said... he has a killer smile... looks great... and was very jolly and smiley.

He says he has a girlfriend and a boyfriend.  He works as an estate agent in POA and lives in Gravatai.

I've had worse experiences.

Agreed 50

Paid 50

 

A quick exit to get back home... to prepare for…

 

Leandro

So at 10pm the "swan princess" will arrive... and he does... hair in a bouffant style... shirt open... tight trousers... he looks amazing.

We go for dinner in a nice restaurant. "Pope Francis you must teach me English" (obviously he didn‘t call me that but you get the idea)

We come back to the apartment… Leandro offers to park my car… and he crashes it into a wall.

 

We chat forever.

So many things... 

1) his ex boyfriend Paulo is suicidal.  He tried to kill himself again recently.  When Leandro tried to tell him it's over, he took an overdose and cut his neck with a knife.... and so it continues... Paolo is still sleeping in Leandro’s bed... Leandro is too scared to try and get rid of him...  I tell him that it was Paolo’s decision to cut himself, not Leandro's and allowing Paulo to stay in his bed is not being honest with Paolo.  Paolo needs honesty.

2) Leandro now has alopecia areata.... of course no real cause... but he is blaming the stress with Paolo.  It is a 50p piece size on the back of his head... very noticeable.   But there is some new fine white hair growth.

3) He's only been to Mezz 3 times since April because other boys don't like him.  That said he has a WhatsApp of lots of repeat requests from clients which he shows me. He asks me how he compares to the other boys.  I tell him he's the best.  He says "no"... but I suspect he's heard “the best” many times... He talks about being in a room with 3 other boys and the others being ordered out... he talks about his fetishism. .. how Americans love taking photos... he likes double penetration...

He says he wants to stop doing this but needs the money for his studies and his mortgage. 

I know he likes champagne so I've bought him a bottle of Brazilian "Chandon".

It was his birthday recently so I give him some presents. 

Chatting until 3.30am.

After finishing a bottle of champagne, he seemlessly moves on to Fabio's bottle of white Martini (having previously dismissed it as a girls drink) 

He finds it funny that there are other brands of alcohol in the fridge... which he knows can only mean one thing...

Then the sex marathon begins... and he is unquestionably the best.

 

It is difficult to work out how he has managed to become perfect at this... immaculate presentation ... almost punctual… an absolute delight to be with... and a total total slut in bed... at times you’re fighting him off… he is amazing.

 

 

Day 5: Monday - Mezzaninu CLOSED

...so it's like a "find your own way" day...

 

For me, the day begins with being sexed to death by Leandro... I'm on a high... I'm exhausted.

I spend the rest of the day pottering around... doing nothing... staring into space... eating chocolate... washing a bath mat... much like the Prisoner of Zenda

 

Fabio has texted to say he can't meet me this afternoon because he has to take his mother to see a lawyer (it's about getting her dead husband's pension).

 

...so I'm now scanning vivalocal for something to fill in the time...

 

I turn my attention to two of my long term targets - Mateus P - a guy who once advertised on Vivalocal about 5 months ago (and I kept his details) - and Lucas M - a guy who I tried texting the last time I was here, but felt that he blew me out.

 

I Facebook message Mateus... back comes the response - R$ 5000... there's a bit more texting… I’m saying his prices seem to have gone up somewhat... him asking how much I'm prepared to pay... he wants a nose job... it's all very odd... best avoid

 

I WhatsApp Lucas (who had previously advertised on vivalocal and less than a month ago was still advertising on Skokka)... 150 for 1 hour... and after lots of faffy messages... do you have a photo of your dick?... I need to go to the shop... I need to tidy up... I do the 25 minute drive to his apartment.  It's a massive gated community called Parque Vargas... and it is, no joke, 100m from Fabio's house and shop!... a few more faffy messages... I have a flatmate here - do you mind?... did you bring a condom?... and he comes out to meet me...

 

Lucas M

After having to walk past some guy sitting in his own living room... Lucas leads me into his sad rented room... He keeps asking me if I'm nervous?... no I'm not… he clearly is... he starts by standing up and undressing... he is taller than me... very thin... his face is beautiful but his body is a mixture of mottled pigmentation, razor reactions and pustules and pick axe scarring from acne... kisses are half hearted... and like others who advertise (in my limited experience), his trick here is to try and get you to fuck him as quickly as possible to bring the episode to a close... so he's repeatedly turning his back to me... and I, realizing that the kisses are unlikely to improve, that chupa is not on tonight’s menu, eventually fall in line with his plan and I make a half-hearted attempt to fuck him.  I quickly decide to stop... ask him to gozar... which he does. 

We then have a little chat on the bed... he's a primary school teacher... he likes Taylor Swift, nightclubs, sneakers and fashion... he has depression and anxiety and takes Fluoxetine... and would I like to see him again? 

I'm escorted out of the compound. 

Agreed 150

Paid 170

 

Fabio

A two second drive around the corner to Fabio who has just messaged me.  He says it's been a difficult day but it’s been productive (in terms of his mother’s pension)... he gets changed... then apologises for his clothes.

We drive to McDonalds. Back to the apartment... a bit of something... I'm too tired.

 

The problem here is I've had Leandro... no one else compares really. 

I'm now telling myself that Fabio is real... Leandro is a professional.

 

Day 6: Tuesday in Mezzaninu

 

Fabio leaves in the morning and I spend the rest of the day eating jelly beans and watching the fall of Robert Mugabe.

 

Tom and I arrive early at Mezzaninu.

There are about 8 clients (mostly active) and 8 garotos (mostly active).

Madonna is still in concert.

 

Given the lack of fresh talent, I attempt to lay old ghosts to rest with Marius...

On the stairs, we Google translate one another... I tell him that when I was last with him, at the end he started requesting more money to pay the rent.  After first trying to tell me about his rent, he settles on "Sorry"... I tell him to be careful as he will gain (should read as "has gained") a reputation...

 

Marius

After some intense bargaining (he says he is usually active) we head off to a room... I think he has an incredible body.  The tattoo on his left wrist is the same and he has resisted the urge to get more.  His lips demand kissing.

Ok kisser. I don't recall chupa.  And you need to fuck him slowly... every time you get as far as you can, he squeals.

Fuck… squeal… fuck… squeal… fuck… squeal…

Agreed 125

Paid 150 + he asks for food

 

I’m not seeing anything new in Mezzaninu... the only other possibility would be Andre but I cannot bring myself to go there. Yet.

Tom has found himself a relatively new guy called William

And Tom refuses to share him!

 

With nothing happening here, I head to Plataforma...

It's raining.  Tom has left his umbrella in my car.

Divine justice.

 

Plataforma is as sad and dingy as ever.  The boys are all watching TV.  4 garotos, maybe 3 clients.

 

What the Plataforma boys lack in looks, they more than make up with desperation...

 

Willian

He comes and sits... says he'll do it all... off to room 12...

Great kisser... asks to put a condom on for sucking (I say don't bother)... then he sits on top of me and gets fucked until he comes.  It takes ages.  Every cum-face known to man.  I have to check my penis doesn’t have a repetitive strain injury.

Offers to send me photos of other guys that are available (if he can have 50R commission!)

Agreed 120

Paid 150

 

Jorges

Again… he'll do it all.

Room 12 (by now I know all the dirt on the floor)

Kisses are virtually none existent.  He makes it clear that he doesn't like it. 

He also says he won't be able to get fucked as I'm too big (possibly worth the payment alone)

He then sets out on a blow job that I've never experienced by a garoto... constantly sucking... taking it down to the hilt... holding it there... gagging... tears rolling down his face... looking up at me… surely he can’t continue doing this?... but he does!... gagging… tears… looking up… tears… Bambi choking to death… it's all an incredible turn on.

Sensing  he’ll go further… I enter into a renegotiation…and I cum in his mouth. 

Agreed 150 (in the end)

Paid 150

 

Marcus

I pick Marcus up at 9.30pm... we go to Zaffari and buy his drink of choice (Campari)... off to a restaurant... then back to apartment.  All the time we are speaking English.

In the room I give him some Hugo Boss presents.  He seems much happier now that he’s left Mezz and is working at the telephone shop.  He earns 1800 per month... works six days a week... and can only have a month's vacation after he's worked for a full year.

He'd like to rent his own apartment.  He's thinking of doing university entrance exams for accountancy now.

 

In March 2017, he told me that he wouldn't wear a pair of brightly coloured Andrew Christian swimming trunks on the beach as it would be tantamount to telling everyone you're both gay and passive.  So I present him with a pair of pink Andrew Christian swimming trunks with “PASSIVO” in neon yellow lettering printed on the backside. 

He loves them.  But he still won't wear them.

 

We're in bed.  He seems keen.  We have sex. We're a good fit in terms of height.  And he was always perfect to fuck.  His buttocks are perky.  The bed moves 2ft across the floor.  He is totally lovely.  We sleep.

Paid 400

(though his lowly self esteem had previously quoted me 250 per night when I was last here)

[Tartegogo]

This guy has far more stamina than I do!

I am very impressed! 

[floridarob]

Great writing, I barely remember where I was , never mind names!

Something stood out to me though...
" I tell him that it was Paolo’s decision to cut himself, not Leandro's and allowing Paulo to stay in his bed is not being honest with Paolo.  Paolo needs honesty"

I'd say many here that think these guys are into them, or love them (even BF's)....could also use honesty.....money and presents that get thrown around has always amazed me, thinking that they'll like you more.  

[Tartegogo]

32 minutes ago, floridarob said:

money and presents that get thrown around has always amazed me, thinking that they'll like you more.  

Nah, not because they will like you more, but because it feels good to give and see their face light up.

But they are often (not always) thankful afterwards and the sex sometimes gets significantly better, even when it is already good.

It certainly did for me, and I think @PopeFrancis ‘s presents also had this effect at least once (in posts yet to come if I remember well from reading a draft of this). 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Tartegogo

[geodesic]

Insightful point floridarob; it is sad to read stories such as this.
 
I do also agree with Tarte that tips, presents, etc. make the sex way better, I see it as is a very cheap way of upgrading to business class, if you'll excuse the flight metaphor. I only realised this recently;  up until last year, I would never tip as going rate here in London is quite high anyway, but since I started tipping (around 10%), I have consistently found my hires to be more 'enthusiastic'; one now french kisses deeply whereas he would have never done this before...  

[Tomcal]

6 hours ago, Tartegogo said:

Nah, not because they will like you more, but because it feels good to give and see their face light up.

But they are often (not always) thankful afterwards and the sex sometimes gets significantly better, even when it is already good.

It certainly did for me, and I think @PopeFrancis ‘s presents also had this effect at least once (in posts yet to come if I remember well from reading a draft of this). 

Floridarob and I have a good friend who brings 2 or 3 large boxes weighing between 50 and 70 lbs (that he pays a extra $200. as extra baggage) all filled with presents for the boys, 50 pairs of calvin klein underwear, shirts, 30 baseball caps, etc) he takes a big bag every night to the sauna to hand them out, and the boys thank him, give him a kiss, and go and try to sell them.. they make fun of him behind his back and they do nothing extra for him in the rooms!  they think he is a fool for giving something away for free.  He has been doing this since 2003.  Now I will say it gives him pleasure to give presents, but we have compared notes on guys we have both been with, and they do the minimum with him.

 

[PopeFrancis]

5 hours ago, floridarob said:

I'd say many here that think these guys are into them, or love them (even BF's)....could also use honesty.....money and presents that get thrown around has always amazed me, thinking that they'll like you more.  

I respectfully disagree.

Most people don't "throw around" "money and presents" in the hope of being liked more.

And I've read Tomcal's "they think he's a fool" anecdote a few times on here in the past.  I'd even read it before deciding it was something I wanted to do.

 

...and it's a viewpoint which has been allowed to prevail unchallenged on this forum.

 

BUT there are so many reasons why people enjoy giving presents...

- on a basic level it's another "thank you"... a tip for providing a service to you

- you can actually feel good by giving presents - the biochemical gratification of being the gift-giver is far larger than than being the gift-recipient - I really really enjoy giving presents... and I suspect that Tomcal's "they think he's a fool" falls into this bracket as well.

- for me it neatly fits into the way I was brought up - "treat others as you'd like to be treated yourself".

- and I think certain items really are appreciated - Perfumes which are very cheap in the UK are prohibitively expensive in Brazil (a 100ml bottle of CK One Red would cost me less than £15 in the UK, an equivalent bottle bought in Brazil would cost around £100)

 

Take Marcus (above) for instance.  A year ago or so, I scrolled through his Facebook page.  I saw he'd posted a photo of a bottle of Hugo Boss perfume... so I thought he must like it.... fast forward and we're sitting on a bed... I lead the conversation to the photo... he tells me that the picture was not of a perfume he owned, but of a perfume he dreamt of owning (WTF) !!!???!!!  He went on to say that if he had a bottle of it, he wouldn't be able to use it because he'd be so scared to use it up... he had no idea of what was coming... and to be honest, I had no idea how far away he was from actually owning a bottle... anyway then I gave him two bottles of different Hugo Boss perfume and told him he must use them!  He just sat there and cried.  I'd had no idea of how much these would mean to him.  We didn't kiss.  We didn't have sex.  We just went to sleep in the end.  Fully clothed. 

We didn't have sex at all the whole time I was there. 

I was too aware of how easy it would have been to take advantage of him.

 

Tartegogo and Geodesic both feel that presents have led to better sex.

And Tartegogo also suggests (he's read a draft of this diary) that my presents have led to better sex.

I'd never really thought about it.  I just sort of thought me and the guys were finding each others likes...

But the "what happens next" is certainly not something that you negotiate in the corridor of Mezzaninu...

[Tartegogo]

3 hours ago, Tomcal said:

Floridarob and I have a good friend who brings 2 or 3 large boxes weighing between 50 and 70 lbs (that he pays a extra $200. as extra baggage) all filled with presents for the boys, 50 pairs of calvin klein underwear, shirts, 30 baseball caps, etc) he takes a big bag every night to the sauna to hand them out, and the boys thank him, give him a kiss, and go and try to sell them.. they make fun of him behind his back and they do nothing extra for him in the rooms!  they think he is a fool for giving something away for free.  He has been doing this since 2003.  Now I will say it gives him pleasure to give presents, but we have compared notes on guys we have both been with, and they do the minimum with him.

I think there is a difference between the 40 minutes quickie in a cabin, and a genuine connection that include multiple conversations and one or more overnights with a garoto.

I can see why giving presents indiscriminately to all the guys you have sex with in a cabin would be seen as just a weird quirk of personality, but giving something  to a guy whose life you start to understand, and something that is genuinely needed, that is something I want to continue doing.

I am pretty sure they don’t all think being generous is being a fool, anyway. That would make them cynical arseholes. They are not all assholes, they are good people, well, most of them are. 

 

[Gotti]

There is a fee to enjoy his dick or ass or both while some people gets his same stuff for free. If he performs well maybe he deserves a reasonable tip from those he charges, but shouldn't he get presents from those agraciated with his free stuff? Love for sale is a different beast!

[floridarob]

My comments were from my perspective and MANY years of being in Brasil, Thailand, Cuba to mention a few places.

I am still in touch with guys I've met 15 yrs ago..in all those places.

I speak Spanish, Portuguese fairly well (some Thai, but many Thai's speak English)....I've hung out with many guys, that I've never had sex with and listened to the stories of how they are like actors....crying, being sad, needing money for school or their kids (that they don't even have). There's just so much experience that's difficult to share......but , like I said, many times...If it makes you feel better, if you want to go throw 100 dollar (or Euro) bills of your balcony....do it, it's your money.

Tom can attest to this, how many guys, down the road will email or text, call and say that they need money for ____________ fill in the blank. It's par for the course, imagine how many clients these guys have every week, month, year....is staggering. And just a small percentage agree and send them something........I flat out say no and most say ok, Thanks...others persist to a point I have to block them.

In the end , I think it's cute when people think they are bettering someone's life with something materialistic.....Just think of this quote again " I tell him that it was Paolo’s decision to cut himself, not Leandro's and allowing Paulo to stay in his bed is not being honest with Paolo.  Paolo needs honesty"


 

[Tartegogo]

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

if you want to go throw 100 dollar (or Euro) bills of your balcony

Throw of your balcony? Completely irrelevant comparison.

By the way, do you guys say the same to your friends who buy a present for their nephew at Christmas?  "But you are not going to get better sex out of this! You are throwing money of the balcony!"

Are you dead inside?

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

how many guys, down the road will email or text, call and say that they need money for ____________ fill in the blank

Yes, some do that. So what?  It doesn't say anything about those who don't do that.

in case you think we don't, we know they have sex with us for the money. We know they would rather be somewhere else, if it wasn't for the money. It doesn't mean I can't make a few moments better anyway while together, for both the boy and I.

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

I think it's cute when people think they are bettering someone's life with something materialistic

I assume you buy some materialistic things for yourself. You don't live under a bridge, do you? Why do you ever buy anything for yourself, if it doesn't better your life?

I think the word I am looking for is hypocrisy.

7 hours ago, floridarob said:

Just think of this quote again " I tell him that it was Paolo’s decision to cut himself, not Leandro's and allowing Paulo to stay in his bed is not being honest with Paolo.  Paolo needs honesty"

Why are you mixing up someone's mental health issues with a simple present. That is sick.

[Lucky]

Finally I can disagree with Tartegogo!  floridarob has his own opinion, based upon his experience, and it isn't sick or hypocritical. It's just different from yours!

I don't give presents, but I do tip. I never send money after I leave. That's just me and I wouldn't expect anyone to blindly follow my opinion.

One example is tipping a go-go dancer. I will sit in a bar for awhile watching the guys, but I don't off one. I give the guy I liked best a tip though, just for pleasing me with doing his job. I don't see that as throwing money away, but someone else might. Okey-dokey with me.

[floridarob]

Thanks Lucky for your input, no sense in beating a dead horse, I think you got it right.....But Tartegogo should go re-read his last comments and then analyze what I was saying....misconstrued every line, smh 

[Tartegogo]

5 minutes ago, floridarob said:

Thanks Lucky for your input, no sense in beating a dead horse, I think you got it right.....But Tartegogo should go re-read his last comments and then analyze what I was saying....misconstrued every line, smh 

Then please explain, because I don't get you at all.

[Tartegogo]

1 hour ago, Lucky said:

Finally I can disagree with Tartegogo!  floridarob has his own opinion, based upon his experience, and it isn't sick or hypocritical. It's just different from yours!

Sorry, @Lucky, I can clearly read "if you want to go throw 100 dollar (or Euro) bills of your balcony" , that is not talking about his experience, AND that is clearly misconstruing what PopeFrancis and I do: we are not throwing away money.

Why would he say we are? He is clearly coming here to diminish the value of our generosity for no reason that I can see, (appart from maybe making himself feel better about not being generous? I have no idea.)

If you want to tell your own story, do that, but don't come here and start saying "you" in PopeFrancis's travel report thread, and then use negative words like "throw away".

I can also read the sarcasm in "I think it's cute when people think they are bettering someone's life with something materialistic". If I was wrong, apologies, but if it isn't sarcasm, then why didn't he write "I think it's cute when people are bettering someone's life with something materialistic". 

The sarcasm is again designed to belittle the impact of generosity.

As for the hypocrisy, what do you call this dialog?

• A: "I bought myself a smartphone. I love it, it has really improved my life"
• B: "Can I have one too?"
• A: "No, materialistic things won't improve your life."

As for his last comment about a guy clearly undergoing a depression, resulting in him cutting himself, I can't see how a straight-thinking mind would bring that on the table to talk about presents. That completely baffles me and still needs explaining.

[Lucky]

Tartegogo, since you asked, to me it is a case of you guys being on a different page and neither of you intends to be offensive about it.

You can take the word "you" to mean Tartegogo, or you can take it in a more generic way. "If one wants to throw away his money, what's it to me?" Throwing it from the balcony, I think, gives it an indifferent twist. The suggestion is that however you do it, it is not worthwhile. But again, it is his opinion.

You received some criticism for things in your trip report. You handled it very well. My suggestion here is that you resolve that you are confident that giving presents is a benefit to you. You like to do it. Who cares if floridarob doesn't agree with you? It just simply doesn't matter. You get to do what you think is the best thing to do.

As for his criticism, consider that he is a different individual with a different personality. He expresses himself in a way that you don't. You can ignore him, or you can accept that his way of speaking is more direct, even more blunt, than others. It is not a reflection on you. What it does is affirm that we are a group of diverse individuals. If we all agreed, if we were always polite and kind, wouldn't this be a boring place?

So chalk it up and move on. You have more people here agreeing with you than disagreeing. Your trip report has been very popular. One size does not fit all, so get used to it! Is that me being blunt?

Anyway, you can disagree with me too. I won't be troubled, but I like it better when we see things in a similar fashion. Just not so similar as to be dull!

[Tartegogo]

I like you a lot, @Lucky. 

But just think about the opposite situation, if @PopeFrancis went to @floridarob‘s travel report and started to write generic comments like:

“if one wants to be a cheapo and not pay the boys enough for all the time they give us, do it, it's your life, If it makes you feel better”

... would you still say, “it is fine, it is just a different person and opinion”?

Some writings are designed to trigger a negative emotional response. Unlike you, I don’t find them welcome here.

Anyway, you are probably right. Yes, you are right, I have to let this go. 

[floridarob]

People have responded negatively to my posts, either here or other forums. I usually justify myself and end  say something like, everyone's entitled to their opinions....I don't get offended, at least I don't think I do...

If you look at my original reply, I said this was a very good read, however something stood out to me and it had nothing to do with Paulo's  mental state or trying to kill himself.....just the line of him needing honesty, and that struck me as ironic.

The real "sickness" that many/most of us suffer here is a sexual addiction, same as  drug, coffee, cigarette, alcohol, gambling...etc addictions..... and that is obvious by the number of programas done just in one day, like binge drinking...but this is a completely different topic.

[Lucky]

floridarob, mentioning addiction in response to a trip report could be inflammatory! But this is Pope Francis' trip report thread, so on that, it is for another thread

 

 

[Tartegogo]

27 minutes ago, floridarob said:

The real "sickness" that many/most of us suffer here is a sexual addiction, same as  drug, coffee, cigarette, alcohol, gambling...etc addictions..... and that is obvious by the number of programas done just in one day, like binge drinking...but this is a completely different topic.

Actually, @Lucky, I don’t mind this change of subject. 

A different topic, but I think a very relevant one to this thread given how many times popefrancis hired per days, and how many times I hired per day. 

I have just tried to find a medical definition for sex addiction, and one thing that stood out is “Sexual addiction prevents people from managing their sexual behavior”

(from https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/182473.php)

I don’t think we are quite there yet, we are still in full control and managing, well at least, at least I am, even in hotest moments in the cabin with two guys servicing me.

 Pity, actually, I could have claimed my escort costs from my health insurance, as a “symptom management method”.