My favorite bank in Brazil to close operations

[mvan1]

HSBC, is an enormous bank. It has branches in many parts of the world. In Brazil, it currently has more than one hundred branches.

As a form of advertising, the HSBC logo is found on most jet bridges at most airports in Brazil and in many other parts of the world.

For reasons that were not made clear by financial analysts, HSBC is soon ceasing business in Brazil.

I use this Bank while in Brazil and found it very convenient because of its many branches.

The closure of HSBC is one more sign that the economy in Brazil is not so good. A long-established bank would not close its branches if it were making money. The closure of HSBC in Brazil cannot be a good thing for Brazil's economic future.

Check out this article:

http://riotimesonline.com/brazil-news/rio-business/hsbc-to-close-in-brazil-cutting-50000-jobs-worldwide/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRioTimes+%28The+Rio+Times%29

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[ferrar]

What's extratordinary is that this bank actually managed to lose money in Brazil last year. Locals know that is a very difficult feat in a country known for having some of the highest banking spreads on the face of the earth in addition to relatively high fees. This while its local banking peers (Bradesco, Itau) had returns on equity well in excess of 20%.

[mvan1]

What's extratordinary is that this bank actually managed to lose money in Brazil last year. Locals know that is a very difficult feat in a country known for having some of the highest banking spreads on the face of the earth in addition to relatively high fees. This while its local banking peers (Bradesco, Itau) had returns on equity well in excess of 20%.

As a foreigner to Brazil, I can use an ATM card at Bradesco without much problem except they do not allow as large a daily limit as did HSBC.

You also mentioned Banco Itau which does not accept U.S. ATM cards.

There are several banks in Brazil where a U.S. ATM card cannot be used. Losing HSBC means Americans have to look for alternatives to their cash needs while in Brazil.

Nothing lasts forever.

I am always amazed at seeing HSBC on all jet bridges in countless countries throughout the world. That logo is a great form of advertisement for HSBC. I wonder if those logos will be removed from the jet bridges in Brazil.

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[sfcastro]

I also found that HSBC gave one of the most competitive exchange rates when I used their ATM's. I've used Citibank, HSBC and Bradesco all within 10 minutes of each other on a weekend and received the best exchange rate from HSBC. Sorry to hear that they are pulling out of Brazil as they were my preferred bank when I was in Brazil.

What other banks will let you take out 1000 plus reais per day?

[ferrar]

Local clients may not miss HSBC all that much (not so competitive and service levels were not great) - but no question that from an ATM perspective especially for visitors it is the loss of an important option.

Bradesco seems to be still smarting from the loss of its long-held asset leadership position vs Itau, with Itau's mega-purchase of Unibanco and would seem the most logical candidate to purchase and in fact Bloomberg has "leaked" that (reportedly) Bradesco is presently leading the bidding.

I don't want to overly tout Citi here - I would never open an account with them here for similar issues that HSBC had - but their ATM options are very helpful for visitors and residents alike especially with a Citi relationship stateside. Some of their US packages allow you to avoid that 3% conversion fee, with no additional ATM charges, and in those packages you can generally withdraw up to US$ 2,000/day per account (checking and saving count separately), which is fairly generous, just be prepared to make multiple withdrawals of R$ 1,000. Of course, there are a number of US banks that don't charge that forex fee, but I don't know, apart from the ATM limits of that institution if Citi's local ATMs impose a daily withdrawal limit or impose additional fees.

[mvan1]

Local clients may not miss HSBC all that much (not so competitive and service levels were not great) - but no question that from an ATM perspective especially for visitors it is the loss of an important option.

Bradesco seems to be still smarting from the loss of its long-held asset leadership position vs Itau, with Itau's mega-purchase of Unibanco and would seem the most logical candidate to purchase and in fact Bloomberg has "leaked" that (reportedly) Bradesco is presently leading the bidding.

I don't want to overly tout Citi here - I would never open an account with them here for similar issues that HSBC had - but their ATM options are very helpful for visitors and residents alike especially with a Citi relationship stateside. Some of their US packages allow you to avoid that 3% conversion fee, with no additional ATM charges, and in those packages you can generally withdraw up to US$ 2,000/day per account (checking and saving count separately), which is fairly generous, just be prepared to make multiple withdrawals of R$ 1,000. Of course, there are a number of US banks that don't charge that forex fee, but I don't know, apart from the ATM limits of that institution if Citi's local ATMs impose a daily withdrawal limit or impose additional fees.

When I visit Brazil, I am usually there for two or three weeks or longer each visit. Due to my length of time in Brazil, I go through a fair amount of local (reais) cash. I prefer to not bring a lot of cash with me. Therefore, ATM's have usually been my way of obtaining local currency.

On occasion, Bradesco bank does not accept U.S. ATM cards. This is why I generally use HSBC over Bradesco.

Even though Brazilians can open a regular bank account in the U.S., Americans cannot legally open a regular bank account in Brazil. This is odd when one considers how often Brazilian officials use the word "reciprocity" to explain some unpleasant things they do.

Americans can legally open a bank account in Brazil similar to a certificate of deposit but daily withdrawals are not allowed.

It looks like I have to do some homework on my upcoming return to Brazil to find out which other banks (besides Bradesco and Citibank) allow the use of an American ATM card.

I will report back on my findings.

[Guest tomcal]

Two thoughts on the above. HSBC was where my atm card was cloned not once but TWICE, once in Rio and once in GRU airport! They were reported to have the most problems of any of the banks in this regard so I stopped using them I started using Citibank because my mortgage is with them and I get No fee atm withdrawals internationally, and of course you are getting the exact exchange rate, and more importantly, both in Ipanema and in Porto Alegre where I stay, their ATM's are within 2 blocks. Also Citibank allows $2,000.R daily withdrawal.

[mvan1]

Two thoughts on the above. HSBC was where my atm card was cloned not once but TWICE, once in Rio and once in GRU airport! They were reported to have the most problems of any of the banks in this regard so I stopped using them I started using Citibank because my mortgage is with them and I get No fee atm withdrawals internationally, and of course you are getting the exact exchange rate, and more importantly, both in Ipanema and in Porto Alegre where I stay, their ATM's are within 2 blocks. Also Citibank allows $2,000.R daily withdrawal.

I never had a problem with HSBC. I guess I was lucky. I have heard of other Americans getting their ATM cards cloned at HSBC but that never happened to me.

However, since HSBC is leaving Brazil, I have to make alternative plans for getting local currency when I am in Brazil.

Citibank might be an alternative to some of the other banks that might be available in Brazil. I did not know that they had a high daily limit for withdrawals.

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[ferrar]

I monitor Citi's exchange rates fairly carefully and the conversion fee-free rates received are always right at wholesale (i.e. commercial - not retail/tourist) as reflected on Bloomberg or Valor Economico, or even the PTAX base rate published by the Banco Central.

With some of their packages you can receive a withdrawal limit of up to USD 2,000 per account per day with separate limits for checking and savings, for a total limit of USD 4,000, although I certainly would not suggest withdrawing that much in R$ 1,000 increments at one go.

[ihpguy]

I also had my ATM cloned at HSBC. The location in Copacabana near Figeuredo de Magalaes had cloning occur many times.

An American can get an account in Brasil but a CPF(Brasilian SSN) must be obtained first if the laws have not changed.

I checked with Citibank when I was back in the USA last November and there were no accounts that did not charge the exchange or withdrawal fees. The only way to avoid the fee was I think had a brokerage account with 75K or like TomCal, have them service your mortgage.

I am very confortable with Bradesco and an 800Real daily limit and Banco do Brasil with an 500Real daily limit.

If worse happens, Santander charges 12Reais to withdraw 1000Reais.

In any event, I use my Mileage Plus Explorer for almost every purchase possible with no exchange fee and earning miles.

Years ago, HSBC had a savings account which offered no exchange fees and no withdrawal fees at their ATM's in South America. That ended.

I had an account similar to that at Citibank as well, I think in 2007, but they ended that offer.

[mvan1]

snip

If worse happens, Santander charges 12Reais to withdraw 1000Reais.

It is good to know of yet another alternative to obtain cash in Brazil after HSBC leaves -

Banco Santander (Brasil) S.A.

http://www.santander.com.br/portal/wps/gcm/package/campanhas/welcome_to_brazil_27042015_92031.zip/com_vc_en.html

Scroll down to "international withdrawal" where it discusses ATM withdrawals by foreigners. The site does not discuss how much it costs to use the ATM machine, if anything.

It does say -

"Service fee

Withdrawal in Reais with credit or debit cards issued in another country.

This service is charged and the fee will be paid in local currency from the issuing bank country. The limit for withdrawal, charges or fee exemptions depend on the bank that issued the client’s card."

-I don't like to see HSBC leave Brazil for personal clients. As I wrote, I never had a problem with them and they have been convenient for my purposes. I will miss HSBC when it closes its doors in Brazil.

Things change, like it or not!