Do you want the Patriot Act to Expire?

[TotallyOz]

What do you want to see happen? Do you want to see this expire? Or, renewed?

[AdamSmith]

Finally Rand Paul is good for something.

[RA1]

Sorry to say, RP cannot get out of his own way.

Best regards,

RA1

[AdamSmith]

Agree this one time is much the exception not the rule. Pity his several good ideas are mired in the rest of him.

[TotallyOz]

For me, living in the middle east for a most of this year, I have to say that I hope it does not expire. I NEVER would have said that one year ago. In fact, I would have said the opposite. However, having seen things this year has changed my mind. I don't mind a little or a lot of privacy violation in order to keep us safe.

[AdamSmith]

I don't mind a little or a lot of privacy violation in order to keep us safe.

However, it does not keep us safe. Last week's report by no less than the Office of the Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Justice stated:

"As with our previous reviews, the agents we interviewed did not identity any major case developments that resulted from use of the records obtained in response to Section 215 order."

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2015/o1505.pdf#page=1

[lookin]

Sure wish I had a dollar for every time we humans decide we need a new whiz-bang tool when we failed to properly use the ones we already had. I guess it's easier and sexier to net every fish in the pond and toss back the ones we don't want than it is to come up with a better lure.

If the Patriot Act is really such a terrific piece of legislation, why did it take Edward Snowden to tell us what was in it? And why are so many of our elected officials mad at him for doing so?

If we do keep it going, what happens when it inevitably fails to capture every last fish and one gets through? Do we get a Super Patriot Act? That road, in my opinion, leads to every U. S. citizen becoming, at one time or another, an enemy of the government.

And vice versa.

[MsGuy]

To any G7 or above who might be reading this thread &/or taking notes for later action: I'm the one who clicked the 'I don't care' box. Just wanted to get that straight from the get go.

I guess I've nothing more to say except bless your heart and thank you for your attention.

[AdamSmith]

To any G7 or above who might be reading this thread &/or taking notes for later action: I'm the one who clicked the 'I don't care' box. Just wanted to get that straight from the get go.

I guess I've nothing more to say except bless your heart and thank you for your attention.

Geezer.

Guardian is just now reporting:

Patriot Act expected to expire at midnight

It looks like the plan in the Senate is just to wait out Rand Paul and allow provisions of the Patriot Act to temporarily lapse for a few days.

According to Senator John Cornyn, Republican senators will offer amendments to strengthen the USA Freedom Act and then go on to a cloture vote to end debate tonight. Unless Rand Paul agrees, which wont happen, itll put off a final vote until Tuesday at the earliest.

[jgoo]

I would not be opposed to it going even further....anyone who hasn't lived abroad in some of the areas that are a direct threat to us and don't understand the value of the Patriot Act are, in my opinion, totally naïve and are clueless as to how important this is to our existence. Don't fool yourself and think in idealistic terms....the threats and dangers are very very real.

[BigK]

However, it does not keep us safe. Last week's report by no less than the Office of the Inspector General of the U.S. Department of Justice stated:

"As with our previous reviews, the agents we interviewed did not identity any major case developments that resulted from use of the records obtained in response to Section 215 order."

https://oig.justice.gov/reports/2015/o1505.pdf#page=1

I'm surprised you're falling for this AS... "the agents we interviewed did not identify any major case developments". What about the agents they didn't interview. That quotation is hardly conclusive especially considering the agents who are in the know are probably not permitted to discuss any aspect of these operations. Remember when we were tracking Osama Bin Laden's cell phone...once that information got out no more cell phone communication. I am OK with not discussing operational details of our intelligence gathering efforts.

I'm against big government interference in my life as much as the next person, but I'm not worried about their interest in my phone calls.

[AdamSmith]

It's the DOJ itself interviewing and reporting here, not CNN.

The secrecy and cynicism in how all these laws and authorities were cooked up and applied just fails to convince me. I don't think the Founders were as naive as we seem to think them when we let this kind of thing go on unexamined and unchecked. And to say we face greater existential threats than they did seems exaggerated, if not ludicrous.

Dr Franklin remains as trenchant as ever. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[RA1]

To reiterate: We all need to take personal responsibility for our actions. A united nation is a whole bunch of like minded individuals.

(Does that make me a Harper and you all potential Harpies?)

Best regards,

RA1

[AdamSmith]

(Does that make me a Harper and you all potential Harpies?)

Not potential Harpies -- rather, kinetic ones!

[RA1]

I was just trying to let any non-Harpy gracefully decline.

Best regards,

RA1

[TotallyOz]

Interesting article / editorial from Edward Snowden today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/05/opinion/edward-snowden-the-world-says-no-to-surveillance.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region