WARNING TO EVERYONE ABOUT RIO DE JANEIRO

[mvan1]

It is amazing to me that some posters do not realize that just because they have had many trips to Brazil where nothing happened to them , that it means there is not a signifigant increase in danger at this time.

When posters who live there post that it is becoming less safe , I tend to listen.

Mvan chooses to return and that is his right . I think what he does not seem to realize is apparently there are a lot more places now that are the wrong places to be.

There can be no argument that the economy is in shambles in Brazil and this alone it makes it less safe.

Of course statistics can be skewed in many ways and if all you look is at reported crime rates then I would not visit Chicago.

In fact where I might go in Chicago is probably very safe.

Rio for years has been a place where you don't venture into areas even 1 block off the Beach and you take all the precautions of Tomcal etc.

I have just finished a trip to Barcelona, Madrid, Lisbon, Kracow, Warsaw and all of Southern Ireland. Not once did I feel that I had to be careful where I went . I have never felt that comfortable in any of my 5 trips to Brazil which for me is mostly Rio.

My recent cancelled trip would have been strictly a Tourist trip with friends from High School.

After reading IPguy 's reports and many other reports of the economy collapse , I choose to cancel the trip.

Certainly there is enough information here and in news reports for anyone to make an informed decision about safety concerns.

I have made mine and hope we will not see any more reports here of members being attacked

"Bottom line, I think you like Thailand rather than Brazil. There is nothing wrong with that. We all like different things. If we were all the same and we only liked one thing, what a deadly dull world this would be."

Attacked?

[MsGuy]

If we were all the same and we only liked one thing, what a deadly dull world this would be.

Not to mention that we would all be standing in line for hours waiting for our 15 minute appointment with a boy.

Knowing my luck, a street vendor's sticky rice ball would give me explosive diarrhea just when the mama san called my number.

[RA1]

If the worst you ever got from street vendor's wares is explosive diarrhea you are indeed lucky.

However, having your place in line disrupted by anything negative is well understood and appreciated.

Best regards,

RA1

[MsAnn]

Not to mention that we would all be standing in line for hours waiting for our 15 minute appointment with a boy.

Knowing my luck, a street vendor's sticky rice ball would give me explosive diarrhea just when the mama san called my number.

.....TruthBTold, that's a great visual. Oh Adam Smith, where art thou?

[firecat691614502759]

"Bottom line, I think you like Thailand rather than Brazil. There is nothing wrong with that. We all like different things. If we were all the same and we only liked one thing, what a deadly dull world this would be."

Attacked?

You keep saying that. I can't find anywhere in this post where I mentioned Thailand . In fact I mentioned multiple cities all over Europe, not one of which I felt uneasy in while walking the streets at any time of day.

That is impossible in Brazil especially now. You are entitled to take what risks you feel are warranted even if I find it hard to understand your decision.

However stop putting words in my mouth about Thailand. I have visited Brazil 5 times and I venture to say . most of the readers of these forums have never been there.

That I never felt completely comfortable is a fact . That is going to an ATM machine, going 1 block off of Copacabana at night exec etc etc. I still went there 5 times. I had plans to go there again for the 6th time in July and after reading IHP Guys report and knowing my general feelings about safety there I cancelled.

I didn't cancel because of Thailand but because in my view it is less safe now then at any time of my previous visits. I choose not to take the risk and therefore reduce the chance that I will be attacked like you were . You may never have such a terrible thing happen to you again but if you really think it was just because you frequented into an unsafe area , then you fail to recognize that many places once considered safe are now less safe.

Please stop putting words in my mouth about Thailand. I have visited 42 countries since my last trip to Brazil and not once did I ever feel the uneasiness that I always felt in Brazil.. Maybe in the past those feelings were less warranted then they are now. But now is what we are talking about!

[mvan1]

"Bottom line, I think you like Thailand rather than Brazil. There is nothing wrong with that. We all like different things. If we were all the same and we only liked one thing, what a deadly dull world this would be."

Attacked?

You keep saying that. I can't find anywhere in this post where I mentioned Thailand . In fact I mentioned multiple cities all over Europe, not one of which I felt uneasy in while walking the streets at any time of day.

That is impossible in Brazil especially now. You are entitled to take what risks you feel are warranted even if I find it hard to understand your decision.

However stop putting words in my mouth about Thailand. I have visited Brazil 5 times and I venture to say . most of the readers of these forums have never been there.

That I never felt completely comfortable is a fact . That is going to an ATM machine, going 1 block off of Copacabana at night exec etc etc. I still went there 5 times. I had plans to go there again for the 6th time in July and after reading IHP Guys report and knowing my general feelings about safety there I cancelled.

I didn't cancel because of Thailand but because in my view it is less safe now then at any time of my previous visits. I choose not to take the risk and therefore reduce the chance that I will be attacked like you were . You may never have such a terrible thing happen to you again but if you really think it was just because you frequented into an unsafe area , then you fail to recognize that many places once considered safe are now less safe.

Please stop putting words in my mouth about Thailand. I have visited 42 countries since my last trip to Brazil and not once did I ever feel the uneasiness that I always felt in Brazil.. Maybe in the past those feelings were less warranted then they are now. But now is what we are talking about!

Unfortunately you don't know what you are talking about . The girlie clubs get harassed way more then the Gay Clubs and it is just for the police to pad their pockets.

Visitors are never bothered except for drugs and under age prostitution which they should be and would certainly be harassed in the USA etc for any of those type of situations.

There are more gay strip clubs on one street in Bangkok then there are in 50 states and 300 million people in the USA. Same in comparison with Brazil. If you don't like Saunas , Brazil has nothing to offer except Porte Allegre 2 nights a week. And there it is just a pick up bar .

Thailand is one of the easiest countries for a Gay Customer looking for Sex Shows, GoGo Boys and live Sex shows. The customer is never harassed unless you consider asking for his passport to be harassment.

All the newspaper clipping you posted have nothing to do with Thailand. So why even mention them . This Forum is about Asia and what goes on in Spain or Brazil can be posted in the Forum that is for those areas.

"There are more gay strip clubs on one street in Bangkok then there are in 50 states and 300 million people in the USA. Same in comparison with Brazil. If you don't like Saunas , Brazil has nothing to offer except Porte Allegre 2 nights a week. And there it is just a pick up bar."

Brazil has nothing to offer? There is much culture in Brazil, away from the saunas. Sao Paulo, for example, has 80 museums plus live musical concerts and operas and other cultural events. There are also several art museums and traveling art exhibits from many parts of the world.

In view of your misinformed opinion about Brazil, I believe that you made a good decision by cancelling your scheduled July trip.

[docbr]

I think all this discussion will only do good - one can never be "too careful" when in Brazil, in special in Rio.

Is it true that theft and robbery are on a rise in Brazil, but only to those "historical levels" of the 90 and early 2000. Don't think Brazil has fallen in a pit of violence, it is just a violent third world country and never have been different. It is possible - as always have been -to still have fun here and stay safe.

The economy is on a low, but has not collapsed (well, at least not yet) - and its not the unemployment that have caused the rise in theft, its for good measure the chances in the "unemployment insurance".

Despite historical lows on unemployment rates until last year, the government spending on "unemployment insurance" raised year by year from R$6 billions in early 2000 to R$40 billions in 2014. Until last year, if a worker stayed 6 months on a job it earned 6 months more on unemployment insurance, so about 60% of the workers forced their lay-off within each work year. So the most common for young low-class workers was to work part of the year and stay the other part of the year on unemployment insurance and work as autonomous for extra-income, like sauna work (or not work at all). With low unemployment and high work rotation it was easy to find a new job after those 6 months.

The government changed (for the good) the law and now one has to work 18 months to earn unemployment insurance - so everybody its a lot more cautious to not lose their job (no more job rotation) and many who did the old strategy early this year was catch unaware and now don't have the unemployment insurance extra-income.

So, as someone that survived many economical crisis in Brazil (and some thefts and robbery too), I advise the middle-class way - only use public transport at daylight (or until 7pm), don't walk around deserted streets (even on daylight) and use a taxi for everywhere else, door to door.

More pratical advice:

- For Lagoa in São Paulo, come by taxi and go back to hotel by taxi. You can ask the valet to get a taxi for you at the door of Lagoa. Metro is near, but the side streets to Lagoa maybe deserted even in daylight (and will be on sunday), so theft is possible. Even some sauna workers do that as they fear some other boy calling people outside the sauna and informing they are leaving with lots of cash (sauna boys get robbed too!)

- For Fragata in São Paulo, come by taxi and ask for a taxi to the desk/doorman. If early, like until 10pm, its safe to walk to the right down the street and get a taxi in front of the Pizza Hut, as there is plenty of action there and the two bars in front of it.

I have not been in Rio for a while, and used to get to Club 117, Point 202 and Meio Mundo by Metro and leave by metro if until 10-11pm and was in a hotel in front of or very near a metro station.

- Club 117 has a taxi pick-up point at Gloria Street before the metro station, take the taxi there. If sunday or late (past 10pm) it could be safer to ask for a taxi at Club 117 desk.

- Meio Mundo its "safe" for walking from the metro station on work days until 7pm, but only because you blend with lots of people going in the streets. So stay aware of the surrounding. I don't go by taxi only because of the huge transit. If not rush-hour, come and go by taxi.

- Point 202 : has a taxi pick-up point next to it at the other side of the street, look first if its safe to walk there from the sauna door. If feels not or there is no taxi in the point, ask the desk guy for one.

- Only walk by night - even in copacabana and ipanema - if you really know the way and its a comercial street with shops open. If you have to cross residential deserted streets (even upscale), get a taxi even for 2-3 blocks.

- If you ask a taxi at a sauna desk, I think its polite to tip the guy and he will remember you all other visits.

[firecat691614502759]

"There are more gay strip clubs on one street in Bangkok then there are in 50 states and 300 million people in the USA. Same in comparison with Brazil. If you don't like Saunas , Brazil has nothing to offer except Porte Allegre 2 nights a week. And there it is just a pick up bar."

Brazil has nothing to offer? There is much culture in Brazil, away from the saunas. Sao Paulo, for example, has 80 museums plus live musical concerts and operas and other cultural events. There are also several art museums and traveling art exhibits from many parts of the world.

In view of your misinformed opinion about Brazil, I believe that you made a good decision by cancelling your scheduled July trip.

Really even a non English speaker would be able to figure out that my sentence referred to Strip Clubs etc an was no comment on what else besides boys is available in Brazil. Either English is not your first language or you just want to argue with your inane comments!

Grow up1. If you think it so safe then make sure you go back to all the same places you usually go and report back about your muggings.

If you didn't want comments on your misfortune then you should not have posted about it. Have a nice trip and stop putting words in my mouth!!!

[Guest tomcal]

Docbr, Excellent advise!!! and for the most part what I did my first 5 or 6 years going to Brazil. One other point is try to walk with someone. The vast majority of my trips I was with friends so we went to the saunas together and afterwards went to dinner together, so we were not walking alone. The muggers operate on the "lion and Wildebest theory" picking out the weakest member of the herd(the one traveling alone) because that gives them the best odds! Having just gotten back a month ago, I didn't notice any differences myself, but I could have just been oblivious to it. and joking aside, I do usually have one(or more) guys walking with me back to the apartment after dinner and you naturally dramatically reduces the odds of being a target of a mugging if your not alone, so reason number #2 to bring a overnight companion(s) back with you. Then you are combining both Safety and Sex! I also stay in Ipanema in a Apartment on the main blvd that goes through there, that has heavy pedestrian traffic. When you combine all these things your odds of having a problem are significantly reduced. But everyone has to do what makes them comfortable, for me I am totally at ease at returning on my regular basis there every 3 months or so and will continue!

p.s. the only time I have ever been the attempted target of a theft was not Rio where I have been over 500 nights in the last 14 years, but in Montreal on St. Catherines' ...so there ya go!

[mvan1]

Really even a non English speaker would be able to figure out that my sentence referred to Strip Clubs etc an was no comment on what else besides boys is available in Brazil. Either English is not your first language or you just want to argue with your inane comments!

Grow up1. If you think it so safe then make sure you go back to all the same places you usually go and report back about your muggings.

If you didn't want comments on your misfortune then you should not have posted about it. Have a nice trip and stop putting words in my mouth!!!

You previously posted that you canceled your scheduled July trip to Brazil out of fear for your life if you were to visit Brazil. Moreover, you repeat your concern often.

It is one thing to come to an anonymous site and post comments (as you often do) about your fear of visiting Brazil. That is your right to post and to express your opinion of Brazil.

However, it is quite another thing for you to come to an anonymous site and mock another poster, as you just did with your bizarre post about the mugging incident that happened to me on my last visit to Brazil.

I posted about the one mugging out of 124 trips to Brazil to caution other visitors to Brazil. My caution was not intended as a tool for you to mock the event. Only a sick and pathetic person would resort to that sort of behavior.

Your need to mock the incident with your comment "If you didn't want comments on your misfortune then you should not have posted about it." speaks volumes about the kind of person you are.

I had messages from other forum members telling me to ignore you. One told me that you often have disputes with other members. It is just your way.

The advice to ignore you is the best advice I had all day. That is what I will do when I see anything from you in the future.

[firecat691614502759]

And I will do the same with you!!!

And in like all your posts you did not answer how you got museums etc out of my comment about strip bars.

But of course you can't. You would rather keep posting untrue drivel with your weird interpretations!

[ihpguy]

Just this past week a female Chilean tourist was stabbed in the neck. She was sitting in the Praca Paris near Cineladia catching some rays when a mugger came up to her to steal her purse. I assumed he was attempting to cut the shoulder strap and instead forced the blade into her neck. She lived.

The same thing happened the Friday afternoon before Dr. Jaime Gold was murdered on the shore of Lagoa Rodrigo de Freitas. A woman from Taiwan was catching some rays when a mugger came up and attempted to slit the shoulder strap on her purse. Instead the point of the blade went into her neck and she was killed.

To an earlier poster, with the new bus patterns in effect, the area around Meio Mundo is definitely safe until 10 PM Monday-Friday. Saturdays much less so. Just past the Metro entrance at Uruguianna at the Mercado Popular ans Sa'ara it can get really scary.

My biggest concern at the moment is walking anywhere and dodging all of the street vendors with no jobs that are clogging the sidewalks. It makes it difficult to transit/escape any danger in the city quickly. Anyone who looks like a gringo/estrangeiro/foreigner becomes a sitting duck for any manner of robbery/mayhem.

[tealady]

Ihpguy

thank you for all of you posts...

i arrive this Friday am, and will keep my eyes wide open, hope we can meet up, and have a long catch up again...

i find your advice over the past weeks very very helpful...

i hope you can add some more advice to my weekend in Porto Alegre

T

[docbr]

Tealady hope you will enjoy a lot this trip... the saunas are quite lively (with lots of boys in need of extra money) lately - at least here in SP.

On a side note about warnings, as the boys are eager to get more money, most will try harder to please the clients... but one or another can try to take advantage of you - so always be crystal clear about you want from the boy and how much you will pay for it.

For the first time in 4-5 years one got me... After a programa with a very persistent boy, he made a scene and his price is R$ 500... I could have talked to the manager and get away paying the usual R$100, but since he pointed that I had not asked him how much it would cost (and he was right) I paid it...

[mvan1]

Tealady hope you will enjoy a lot this trip... the saunas are quite lively (with lots of boys in need of extra money) lately - at least here in SP.

On a side note about warnings, as the boys are eager to get more money, most will try harder to please the clients... but one or another can try to take advantage of you - so always be crystal clear about you want from the boy and how much you will pay for it.

For the first time in 4-5 years one got me... After a programa with a very persistent boy, he made a scene and his price is R$ 500... I could have talked to the manager and get away paying the usual R$100, but since he pointed that I had not asked him how much it would cost (and he was right) I paid it...

You did not say which sauna in Sao Paulo this event occurred.

If this happened at Lagoa and if you are there again and that same garoto is present, you should tell the owner, Rodolfo, of the scam pulled on you.

If you let Rodolfo know what happened, the garoto will be expelled from the sauna and will not be allowed to return until Rodolfo decides when he can return.

Even if you believe the garoto's argument was valid in that you did not agree on a price in advance, it was not reasonable for the garoto to insist on being paid five times the normal rate. That is why Rodolfo should know what the garoto did to you, a client at his sauna.

If it happened at Fragata, you don't have much recourse as that place is not run the same way as is Lagoa.

[docbr]

Yeah, It was at Lagoa. Gossip around is that the boy in case does it in a recurrent manner and was reported couple of times, but is in good grace with one in command there... So, to not ruin my night mood even more I let it go... The other boys were pretty good in cheering me up me. I've not been there after that, and plan to show more in Rio.