The Whole Race Thing In Brazilian Saunas....

[Badboy81]

I have noticed in a few posts that people are totally memorized by very traditional white looking males in the saunas scene who are often hard to find or extremely popular....

Brazil has such a rich mixed culture with Africans, Europeans and Natives that have combined to make some truly attractive people....overall some of the best looking people on the planet.

I have a few thoughts and serious questions...

For Americans and Europeans traveling to Brazil for their prospective countries, why is this a major turn on? There are TONS, literally tons of blonde haired or "traditional" looking white guys here in the states and in Europe.

Aside from Asians who may not see those type of guys on the regular, why would one travel all the way to Brazil to spend money in the saunas if that is your type?

One of the main reasons I tend to visit Brazil more than other countries is BECAUSE of the ethnic mix you find with the locals in and outside of the sauna.

I understand and respect all preferences, ie, some people are into twinks, I prefer athletic or muscular and some people like short, tall, whatever. (I tend to be attracted to the exotic looking guys that are found in Brazil)

I just would like more information on the whole phenom of ethnic "white" pure Brazilians vs. guys that look like them in the states that escort or dance. Even if not in the sauna scene, I know a guys who wouldn't mind a sugar daddy....

I would love some feedback on this...And thanks in advance

[Guest lurkerspeaks]

Here are my two cents worth... As you stated, we all have our preferences..Some like the "European" look, others prefer Latinos, still others prefer darker, African heritages. And some people prefer a mix of all three (and more). As you also stated, there is everything to be found in Brazil. But why travel around the globe to Rio or Sao Paolo for the same "flavor" you can get at home?

To that I ask, where else in the world (except maybe Thailand) can one so easily find the abundance of willing sex partners for so little of a cost? Here is Phoenix, we have a large latino population, but there is no easy way to have hundreds of those beautiful men available at a moments notice for $40 (or whatever the current exchange rates is)

[demedici]

This is an interesting question - let me try to give my perspective. Let's say money is not the driving factor because after the flight, the hotel, eating out, a case could be made for staying home and looking around rb or romeo. For me it is not that the European Brazilian is a rare breed in terms of color, it is that you get a uniquely Brazilian blend of masculinity and accessibility that is much harder - though admittedly not impossible - to find in the U.S. or Europe.

In the U.S. the rentboys come in all shapes and colors too, but the demeanor of many rentboys tends towards the gay edge of the spectrum, at least in terms of how they self-identify. This is a stereotype frought with all the dangers and problems that come with stereotypes, I realize that. But, in Brazil, you are often laying down or standing up or kneeling or straddling a guy who thinks and for all intents and purposes is straight. There is a stolen fantasy quality to this that is hard to repeat elsewhere. You get the sense that you are with a man who, for a season, based on need or expediency, is willing to have sex with other men. But he plans on returning to his other life and you get a chance to screw around a bit before he does. I sometimes think of it as the secret straight crush that you spotted at the gym, in the shower, and in this case, you can follow through for not a lot of money or trouble.

The second thing that is rather normal in Brazil and tougher to find in the U.S. is an absolute lack of judgement. What I mean here is that Brazilians care a lot how they are treated, spoken to. But how you look, how old you are, the extra pounds, they don't matter. You could be Cristiano Ronaldo or John Goodman - they treat you exactly the same and ask for the same R$. In Brazil, what you look like is not an issue. While this is also true of MANY rentboys in the U.S., in my limited experience, it is frankly much more so in Brazil.

So, mix the reasonable prices, the abundance of options, the fantasy of sex with a straight guy, and remove judgement over size, age, wrinkles and hair - frankly whatever your race preference might be - it is probably better in Brazil than in many other places. Ceertainly better than in LA.

[Badboy81]

Great feedback so far....

I appreciate the awareness that people just don't want to be judged based on their physical appearance.

From my own experiences relative to a good friend of mine who happens to be a short, white, 56 yr old man, I had no problems with meeting guys on the streets or in the saunas. I prefer Brazil because of the culture, the laid back attitude, the beaches, the water and the get away that it offers.

Two things I have noted from my experiences of traveling the US and around the world and being a frequent visitor to Brazil, while there is a lot of quantity as far as rentboys/sauna boys go, quality is relative to one's taste.

As far as the cost associated with a trip to Rio, it really does end up being relative to what type of escort you hire in the states or in any country that is not THIRD world. A trip to Rio is expensive by all means, everybody can not afford the plane tickets or the hotel costs which would mean traveling to a local escort or having him come to you for $200 with the understanding of what you want would be affordable.

I get the fact that I actually get the most bang for my buck with Rio because of the quality of life that many of the escorts have, the alternatives to work.

My question is more the race relation for the demand of "Caucasian" rent boys versus others in RIO....It would be a total different question if the demand was in Germany or London where that is the norm.

[Guest parisrio2000]

But demedici answered your question. For whatever cultural reason, you can't find straight boys in the US or Europe or actually even in Argentina who will experiment readily, for money or not. In Brazil you can find a very masculine, for all purposes straight, white top guy who's handsome and muscular and who will experiment or do it for money. Even so, by the way, it's quite hard to find pure-bred white guys in the saunas even in Brazil. Most come from middle class or well-to-do families and don't need to make money on the side. So actually if you like white guys of a certain type, it won't do you any good to go to USA or Sweden. They'll be there but they will either be gay (and act it) or with the vast majority of hot straight guys, it will be very, very difficult to do anything with them. Impossible with some for any price.

My comment in the other thread by the way had more to do with the general clientele at 117. Most of the clients are Brazilian. For them a white guy is a rare thing, especially in the saunas. So they all mob the white guys who come there.

Let me even add to this. If I liked black guys I would stay in the US for the price, I wouldn't go to Brazil. A lot of black guys in the US do "downlow" stuff with other guys for money, for relatively low prices, or drugs, or whatever. Straight black guys too. If that satisfied me I'd stay in the US and not take a plane ticket to Brazil. But my problem is that I'm not very attracted to the black face. It's not something I can control. So I have to spend the money and go to Rio where I can meet the occasional Iberian-looking guy, for money or not.

Even so the boy I see when I go to Rio these days is relatively dark-skinned, but his facial features are mostly Iberian. It's a line that's difficult for me to cross to hook up with a guy with a very black or Indian face. I understand the exotic factor, but if there isn't basic attraction there it's a no-go.

[Guest parisrio2000]

{Or in other words...find 1 boy for me in the US who looks and acts like any of the last 3 white boys I enjoyed in Rio ...and even if he will accept $500/visit ...I'll do it...but...I guarantee you that you won't find this. I've looked...)

[mvan1]

I have noticed in a few posts that people are totally memorized by very traditional white looking males in the saunas scene who are often hard to find or extremely popular....

Brazil has such a rich mixed culture with Africans, Europeans and Natives that have combined to make some truly attractive people....overall some of the best looking people on the planet.

I have a few thoughts and serious questions...

For Americans and Europeans traveling to Brazil for their prospective countries, why is this a major turn on? There are TONS, literally tons of blonde haired or "traditional" looking white guys here in the states and in Europe.

Aside from Asians who may not see those type of guys on the regular, why would one travel all the way to Brazil to spend money in the saunas if that is your type?

One of the main reasons I tend to visit Brazil more than other countries is BECAUSE of the ethnic mix you find with the locals in and outside of the sauna.

I understand and respect all preferences, ie, some people are into twinks, I prefer athletic or muscular and some people like short, tall, whatever. (I tend to be attracted to the exotic looking guys that are found in Brazil)

I just would like more information on the whole phenom of ethnic "white" pure Brazilians vs. guys that look like them in the states that escort or dance. Even if not in the sauna scene, I know a guys who wouldn't mind a sugar daddy....

I would love some feedback on this...And thanks in advance

Based on my reading of the few posts you made to this forum, I conclude that you are a bright and reasonable person.

In connection with your post concerning “white” garotos, I noticed you began your assertion (based on your own admission) limited to only “a few posts.” You wrote “I have noticed in a few posts that people are totally memorized by very traditional white looking males in the saunas scene - - -.”

Considering that your observation is based on only “a few posts” I think that you reached an erroneous and conjectural conclusion based on those “few” posts you noticed.

While it is true that in this forum there are a lot of photos of so-called “white” garotos, there are also many photos posted of garotos that are not white.

I personally visit Brazil a lot. Among other things, I visit the saunas and other places where there are lots and lots of available garotos.

I do not seek out or hunt for white garotos. Although I am Caucasian, I do not prefer Caucasian garotos.

I suspect that you noticed the following during your trips to Brazil:

Lagoa sauna in Sao Paulo has lots of white garotos. Lagoa also has many non white garotos. Sauna Fragata in Sao Paulo has fewer white guys than does Lagoa but those non white garotos are successful in meeting clients of all sorts (Gringos and Brazilians).

Sauna Clube 117 in Rio often has several white guys but more often has mixed-raced garotos.

Sauna Meio Mundo in Rio has fewer whites than any of the popular saunas.

Sauna Mezzaninu in Porto Alegre, on weekends has a fair number of white garotos but the non white garotos far out number the whites.

All of the garotos, regardless of race, have no problem meeting clients, otherwise, they would not pay for the transportation and entrance fee for the sauna.

There are other places in Brazil that I visit where there are many available garotos. Those places have only a small ratio of white garotos.

If, instead, you had written, “I have noticed in a few posts that SOME people are totally mesmerized by very traditional white looking males in the saunas scene - - -.” I would agree with your statement.

In summary, I think that your sample size (“a few”) is too small to conclude what you asserted.

[Badboy81]

The reason why Spanish and Portuguese people are often referred to as swarthy skinned, dark complexioned, for the Iberian comment-

The Moors arrived in the Iberian Peninsula in 711 and called the territory Al-Andalus, an area which at its peak included what is today most of Spain andPortugal, and part of the South of France. They occupied Mazara on Sicily in 827 and in 1224 were expelled to the settlement of Lucera, which was destroyed in 1300. The religious difference of the Moorish Muslims led to a centuries-long conflict with the Christian kingdoms of Europe, called in Spain the Reconquista. The fall of Granada in 1492 saw the end of Muslim rule in Iberia.

Depiction of three Moorish knights found on Alhambra's Ladies Tower

Castillian ambassadors attempting to convince Moorish Almohad king Abu Hafs Umar al-Murtada to join their alliance (contemporary depiction fromThe Cantigas de Santa María)

The term "Moors" has also been used in Europe in a broader, somewhat derogatory sense to refer to Muslims, especially those of Arab or Berber descent, whether living in Spain or North Africa. During the colonial era the Portuguese introduced the names "Ceylon Moors" and "Indian Moors", in Sri Lanka. The Bengali Muslims were called Moors. Moors are not a distinct or self-defined people. Medieval and early modern Europeans applied the name to Arabs, Berbers, Muslim Europeansand Sub-Saharan Africans

[Badboy81]

Basically what I am reading in this post is that the variety, ease of bedding and price associated with saunas makes it beyond compare for most of the guys here.

Good deal.

Thanks for the feedback

[Badboy81]

Enjoy Gentlemen....

[mvan1]

Enjoy Gentlemen....

BB.jpgBB2.pngBB3.jpgBB4.jpg

You see, there is a mixture of many -

See this - it contains the same guy you posted (plus others):

http://arirossner.photoshelter.com/gallery/Gay-Ipanema/G00002rCBAo.kOWw/

[Guest parisrio2000]

Just for the record, Moors are Berbers (North African tribesmen), many of who are blond. They are at war with blacks in Mali and Chad, and are quite racist. There is a small subsaharan component in parts of the Iberian peninsula, but not enough to affect facial physiognomy. Skin color is not really the issue, as you can find Scandinavians who are in the summer darker than some light-skinned blacks. As you may be aware, many deeply brown skinned people in Brazil happen to be very racist against blacks. The racial categories worldwide are quite complex.

Anyway this is not about the absolute value of any one race. But it's a fact that the pure-bred white boys in the saunas in Brazil are usually mobbed (by the Brazilian clients more than anyone else). The emphasis is on pure-bred as many Brazilian "whites" in fact are visibly "off" in the face. Some people are sensitive to these distinctions. Anyway, try not to take it personally. I, like many of the posters here, have been with all kinds, white, black, mixed, part indian, but it's a question of preference and in what I said in the other thread, also a simple observation about facts.

[Badboy81]

Something I found interesting....The more you know....

Brazilian society is more markedly divided by social class lines, although a high income disparity is found between race groups, so racism andclassism can be conflated. Socially significant closeness to one racial group is taken in account more in the basis of appearance (phenotypes) rather than ancestry, to the extent that full siblings can pertain to different "racial" groups.

Socioeconomic factors are also significant, because a minority of pardos are likely to start declaring themselves White or Black if socially upward. Skin color and facial features do not line quite well with ancestry (usually, Afro-Brazilians are evenly mixed and European ancestry is dominant in Whites and pardos with a significant non-European contribution, but the individual variation is great).

The brown population (officially called pardo in Portuguese, also colloquially moreno) is a broad category that includes caboclos (assimilated Amerindians in general, and descendants of Whites and Natives), mulatos (descendants of primarily Whites and Afro-Brazilians) and cafuzos (descendants of Afro-Brazilians and Natives).

People of considerable Amerindian ancestry form the majority of the population in the Northern, Northeastern and Center-Western regions.

Higher percents of Blacks, mulattoes and tri-racials can be found in the eastern coast of the Northeastern region from Bahia to Paraíba and also in northern Maranhão, southern Minas Gerais and in eastern Rio de Janeiro.

[Badboy81]

I plan to do some more research on my next few trips to Rio...I never really paid attention to who was in demand except who I was into but I have got some major insight from reading through all of the forums....

Great insight...

[Guest dicklark09]

Something I found interesting....The more you know....

Brazilian society is more markedly divided by social class lines, although a high income disparity is found between race groups, so racism andclassism can be conflated.

I think the interesting thing is Brazilians don't connect class stratification to race. Majority of poorest Brazilians are black (not mixed, but black black), while overwhelming majority of rich Brazilians are white (not mixed, plain white).

The cabinet of the current president for example is all white except for 2 or 3 ministers out of 39. And only one is black, the minister for minority issues. France has a more diverse cabinet.

It's really crazy once you look at the stats. Police killings, educational attainment etc. In comparison, African Americans are way better integrated. Yet I have seen people who think US is more backwards in race relations than in Brazil. All because of attitude, and not actual facts.

[tassojunior]

Here in Phoenix, we have a large latino population, but there is no easy way to have hundreds of those beautiful men available at a moments notice for $40 (or whatever the current exchange rates is)

Just go to Dick's ! I do a lot and there's no shortage of stunning guys available for nude " lapdances " or whatever. If I lived in Phoenix I wouldn't travel anyplace else to get guys.

[Suckrates]

God you guys are really OVERTHINKING this whole thing. Just hold out your hand with a few greenbacks in it and see who "bites"

[Guest parisrio2000]

I think the interesting thing is Brazilians don't connect class stratification to race. Majority of poorest Brazilians are black (not mixed, but black black), while overwhelming majority of rich Brazilians are white (not mixed, plain white).

The cabinet of the current president for example is all white except for 2 or 3 ministers out of 39. And only one is black, the minister for minority issues. France has a more diverse cabinet.

It's really crazy once you look at the stats. Police killings, educational attainment etc. In comparison, African Americans are way better integrated. Yet I have seen people who think US is more backwards in race relations than in Brazil. All because of attitude, and not actual facts.

Of course you're right, but the relations between the races are better in Brazil than in the US. Something to think about.

I repeat that it's very rare to see pure-bred white guys in the saunas. Being pure-bred white in Brazil almost necessarily means you come from middle class or more likely upper middle and upper class background. Ipanema is full of the hottest guys I've seen anywhere but they likely have more money than anyone or most on this forum. So they don't go to the saunas.

[AdamSmith]

but they likely have more money than anyone or most on this forum.

For reference: http://www.boytoy.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23485-whats-the-most-youve-spent-on-escorts-in-a-year/

[Guest dicklark09]

Of course you're right, but the relations between the races are better in Brazil than in the US. Something to think about.

What I learned from this is if the poor accept the status quo, those in power will like them a lot more. As it turns out, racial harmony is not a good indicator for racial equality. If there was a false choice between the two, which would you choose?

[Guest parisrio2000]

What I learned from this is if the poor accept the status quo, those in power will like them a lot more. As it turns out, racial harmony is not a good indicator for racial equality. If there was a false choice between the two, which would you choose?

Yeah it's not a false choice, it's a choice, and the choice is harmony because equality has never existed and never will. So it's either harmony or separation. Both have their merits. The Brazilian ruling class has shown it can (so far) promote harmony. Others live in peaceful separation, that's what different countries and continents are for. In the US there is just strife and resentment that won't end well for anyone. Anyway this is a sex forum and not quite the place to discuss heavy things...

[MsGuy]

Yeah it's not a false choice, it's a choice, and the choice is harmony because equality has never existed and never will. So it's either harmony or separation. Both have their merits.

Parisrio, giving you the benefit of the doubt, that notion strikes me as very European, maybe appropriate for a country with one nationality that's overwhelmingly dominant both culturally and numerically. For America it's not one or the other, it's going to be both or neither. We are just going to have to make the best job of it we can.

[Guest parisrio2000]

Parisrio, giving you the benefit of the doubt, that notion strikes me as very European, maybe appropriate for a country with one nationality that's overwhelmingly dominant both culturally and numerically. For America it's not one or the other, it's going to be both or neither. We are just going to have to make the best job of it we can.

But what you say about the nice view in my post

[Guest dicklark09]

Yeah it's not a false choice, it's a choice, and the choice is harmony because equality has never existed and never will. So it's either harmony or separation. Both have their merits. The Brazilian ruling class has shown it can (so far) promote harmony. Others live in peaceful separation, that's what different countries and continents are for. In the US there is just strife and resentment that won't end well for anyone. Anyway this is a sex forum and not quite the place to discuss heavy things...

Like I mentioned earlier. This harmony is a delusion. Black people have a better life in American than in Brazil. And not because brazil is a poorer country. Compare black and white brazilians, and do the same for black and white americans.

I know most people don't look at the data, and just go buy gut feeling, but the separation between the races is less dire in the U.S. economically.

And like I said, of course you'd choose harmony over equality when you're in the majority. I wouldn't. I would rather be educated and have money than liked by those who have them when I don't.

And yes, this will be my last response. We're not here for the politics.

[Guest parisrio2000]

Like I mentioned earlier. This harmony is a delusion. Black people have a better life in American than in Brazil. And not because brazil is a poorer country. Compare black and white brazilians, and do the same for black and white americans.

I know most people don't look at the data, and just go buy gut feeling, but the separation between the races is less dire in the U.S. economically.

And like I said, of course you'd choose harmony over equality when you're in the majority. I wouldn't. I would rather be educated and have money than liked by those who have them when I don't.

And yes, this will be my last response. We're not here for the politics.

Reminder that whites are in the minority in Brazil, and blacks the majority.