Pope: Death penalty represents 'failure,' fosters vengeance

[AdamSmith]

My view completely. An abhorrent thing considered in any light.

Pope: Death penalty represents 'failure,' fosters vengeance

http://www.thestate.com/2015/03/20/4058612/pope-death-penalty-represents.html

[RA1]

Interesting. Does this mean by extrapolation that the Pope is NOT a jihadist? JK.

Is it also your view that life imprisonment is not "acceptable"? I seem to recall that you, at least once, offered that as an alternative to the death penalty.

Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. I agree that does not mean we can usurp that role as "agents". OTOH, what shall we do with criminals. Just let them do whatever they please?

Best regards,

RA1

[AdamSmith]

Yeah, life without parole is what I would have on the lawbooks in place of the death penalty. Thank the Lord, or whatever Source one credences, for Il Papa's vision of boundless mercy here too; but I accept some are beyond the reach of rehabilitation.

This return to the topic courtesy Francis' prompting made me realize I would be against the death penalty if even it were shown to have a deterrent effect. To use his word, it just strikes me as a terrible failure when the state confers on itself the right to take life, other than in a theatre of war.

[lookin]

When it comes to the death penalty, AdamSmith, il Papa, and I are of a single mind.

Far as life without parole, that's a bit knottier issue for me. When I think of the pair who tortured Matthew Shepard and left him to die, I shed no tears when the cell doors clanged behind them for the last time. And I can't swear vengeance wasn't a factor. As they were in their early twenties, is it possible they could become different people before they die in prison? Is there some way for them to atone for what they did? And could I prove that there isn't? So far, the only way I've found to deal with those questions is not to ask them.

And somehow that doesn't seem like a perfect answer.

Another issue, of course, is mental illness and I expect a fair number of lifers are nuttier than a fruitcake. Even some of those who are technically eligible for parole may spend the rest of their days in prison.

Right now, I can't imagine Charles Manson being released on parole. What community would welcome him? Unless, of course, he could bunk at the Papal Apartments which, I understand, are currently vacant.

PS: To show how uninformed I was/am on LWOP, I had to check to see if anyone had ever successfully appealed the sentence in this country. Apparently not.

[Guest callipygian]

when life intersects with religion - this is what you will get.

I just might die with questions in my head about a higher power (if I have that capacity during the death process) and didn't form that reality for myself before-hand

But in the end - No matter what you believe - and who you believe in - it will not matter.

What matters is - what you did, beforehand.

[AdamSmith]

This article from Boston.com reports that the percentage of Bostonians who want Tsarnaev sentenced to death has dropped during the course of his trial thus far:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2015/03/28/most-bostonians-don-want-tsarnaev-die-will-the-jury/7HhQgc9vmGB5I9DM3yqz2J/story.html?p1=feature_sec_hp

Reminds me some of why I was proud to live there.

[MsGuy]

“It’s harder to get such a [hanging] jury in Massachusetts than it would in Texas where they’re just waiting for the opportunity,” Silverglate said.

Snotty liberal stereotyping such as in the above quote does not do much to advance the conversation. IMHO.

[AdamSmith]

Snotty liberal stereotyping such as in the above quote does not do much to advance the conversation. IMHO.

Well...

"Texans remain strongly in favor of the death penalty and nominally in favor of abortion rights and medically assisted suicide, according to the University of Texas/Texas Tribune poll.

Voters' overwhelming support for the death penalty remains intact, with 73 percent either somewhat or strongly in support and only 21 percent opposed."

http://www.texastribune.org/2012/05/24/uttt-poll-life-and-death/

[MsGuy]

You don't find it a bit of a reach to equate telling a pollster you favor the death penalty with "just waiting for the opportunity [to hang someone] ?

Not quite the same thing or so it seems to me.

And only a far snottier liberal than you would fail to admit that, AS.

[AdamSmith]

Well, that's Silverglate. Snotty liberal hardly begins to do him justice.

I think it doesn't hurt the public discourse for it to include a few extremists on either side throwing out caricatured views of the other side. Sometimes you even recognize your own shortcomings the better for having them stated that way.

For example, the term 'snotty liberal.'

[MsGuy]

"Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover there are other views."

William F. Buckley, Jr.

"Let a thousand flowers bloom."

Indirection worthy of RA1.

[AdamSmith]

I thought you would appreciate that.

If I have to lose an argument, at least let me still look clever.