Netanyahu Urges ‘Mass Immigration’ of Jews From Europe

[MsGuy]

[sigh]

[RA1]

Now you know how many folks feel about BO. Sigh, indeed.

Best regards,

RA1

[lookin]

In case anyone's been wondering why Netanyahu's been so quiet since his Likud party won the March elections and he continued as Prime Minister, it's because he's been working his ass off trying to build a governing coalition, and he's got just a few more hours left to do it. Actually, he was supposed to have it done a couple of weeks ago, but he got an extension from President Rivlin until midnight tonight.

He'll probably get it done but, on Monday, Avigdor Lieberman pulled his six Yisrael Beiteinu seats out of the coalition, meaning that Netanyahu will have only sixty-one seats in his coalition, a one-seat majority.

Even worse, his coalition will consist of Israel's most right wing parties, including the Jewish Home party, which wants new settlements in occupied Palestinian territories and even annexation of parts of the West Bank, as well as passage of a bill that would declare Israel a Jewish state.

Of course, all of this will increase tensions with President Obama and other western leaders, and probably earn Bibi another Republican invite to address Congress.

For some years, I've been reading Sheldon Adelson's Israel Hayom, Israel's largest-circulation newspaper (at least since Adelson started giving it away for free), and have often been surprised by the vitriol heaped on President Obama whenever he failed to carry Israel's water.

What's even more surprising is that the same vitriol, from the same writers, has been lately heaped on any Israeli politician who similarly opposes the right wing agenda. I guess vitriol is just something that flows through the Israeli right like shit through a goose.

[RA1]

With all the Muslim countries where it is not only the preferred religion but the only one accepted why not have Israel be a Jewish state? The only reason I can think of immediately is that Israel has been the only democracy in the Middle East in the last 70+ years. No matter how difficult to do so, it would be nice to have a good example there.

Best regards,

RA1

[MsGuy]

RA1, what does it mean to say that Israel is a Jewish state?

That some variant of Judaism is followed by a majority of its citizens? That's no more than a statement of fact & not subject to much controversy.

That nearly 80% of its citizens claim a Jewish ethnicity? Again, a statement of fact.

That Jews are privileged above other citizens? That they in fact are privileged is not really subject to legitimate dispute but if you mean to ask whether any more so than might be expected in any democratic entity dominated by a single ethnic/religious group, well then maybe, maybe not. Good question.

That Jews must/should be by law privileged above Arabs/Muslims? Seems to me that's a big ask both of the Arab population of Isreal and Israel's friends overseas.

That non Jewish citizens must pledge to accept and support enshrining the superior status of Jews by basic law¹ on pain of loss of their citizenship & deportation? Welcome to the reality distortion field that envelopes Israeli politics.

¹ Basic Law = Israeli equivalent of US Constitution, more or less.

[RA1]

If you mean that citizens who obey the law and diligently work for a living, then yes, many of the Jews are privileged. Otherwise, please re-state the question.

Best regards,

RA1

[lookin]

As MsGuy indicates, the meaning of a Jewish state could unfold in a number of ways and it will no doubt take time to iron out the details, should it ever happen.

One thing it means though, even if it never happens, is that a two-state agreement with Palestine recedes further and further into the distance, should that ever happen.

Netanyahu has gone on record demanding that the Palestinians have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, whatever that turns out to mean, before he will sit down to discuss any chance of statehood for them.

In the meantime, especially given his new coalition government , Israel will most likely continue to expand settlements and lock up territory that the Palestinians had hoped would be theirs. The more time passes, the stronger his hand becomes.

No doubt there are a number of visions for a Jewish state but at least one opinion is that one purpose of the Jewish state discussion is to further delay two-state talks.

[MsGuy]

No doubt there are a number of visions for a Jewish state but at least one opinion is that one purpose of the Jewish state discussion is to further delay two-state talks.

That's pretty much what I've been telling my pro Israel friends ever since Bibi started yakking about this nonsense, lookin. It's nothing more than a way to stop any 2 state negotiation in its tracks w/o admitting he has no interest in allowing a Pal state under any circumstances.

[MsGuy]

If you mean that citizens who obey the law and diligently work for a living, then yes, many of the Jews are privileged. Otherwise, please re-state the question.

RA1, personally I think the Israeli's are doing a fair job of running a Western style parliamentary democracy in the midst of a god awful bunch of neighbors. Particularly so since they've chosen to handicap themselves with the whackiest possible version of a party list proportional system for electing the Knesset, a system so daffy you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy. And I'm one of those that doubt there is any solution to the PAL/Jew conflict, much less a simple, easy one.

That said, when I read your comment quoted above I was torn between thinking you were jerking my chain and attributing it to your very own personal reality distortion field. Possibly both? Inquiring minds want to know.

[RA1]

We all have personal reality distortions, no? So, the answer is yes.

Best regards,

RA1

[RA1]

By Pal state, do you mean PLO? OK, Israel was created by "outsiders" who decided it would cure some of "their" problems. Regardless of whatever the so called Palestinians want and possibly deserve, does that solution have to be adjacent to or from a part of Israel? There are enough crazed adversaries around without inviting another one into your back bedroom.

If this can be solved, then I have hope for Muslim-Christians and Irish-English and Pakistani-Indian and several others here and there. I am not holding my breath.

Best regards,

RA1

[MsGuy]

Regardless of whatever the so called Palestinians want and possibly deserve, does that solution have to be adjacent to or from a part of Israel?

Well yes, it kinda does. Especially so if you are inclined to refer to the West Bank territory as Judea and Samaria.

Of course some Israelis and some Pals have pretty much agreed on an alternative solution:

The only remaining point of dispute seems to be who gets to hold the rifles.

====

"So called" Palestinians? Really? You really want to go there?

Although I readily concede that Israeli nationalism in the 20th century has managed to conjure up the golem of PAL nationalism out to the varied Arab inhabitants of Palestine. Not unlike the French reinvention of the nation state during the revolution calling up a corresponding German nationalism the way a magnet organizes a random heap of iron filings.

----

How 'bout that; worked a medieval Jewish myth into a historical parallel with a scientific analogy thrown in to boot. When you're good, you're good and, baby, I'm on a roll!

====

PS RA1, I'd never deny I walk around in my own reality distortion field.

[Guest rimbaud500]

As I read the many comments on the thread, I'm struck by the vitriolic invective upon Netanyahu, but mostly concerned over the fact that the posts blaming him for the lack of a peace agreement is placed solely on Israel's lap. Who is Israel supposed to sign a peace accords and for what concessions? With Hamas? That maintains their explicit goal to eliminate Israel? With the PLO that joins Hamas and their goals to destroy Israel? The Arab Israelis know well that were they under the authority of their brethren, Assad or Al Sisi of Morsi, they would not enjoy any civil liberties like they enjoy under the state of Israel. I think the majority of Israelis is interested in resolving this issue. But whom with? After having been attacked by Arab nations on 1948, 1967 and 1974, Israel was able to reject invading forces and annexed the West Bank as a way of protecting their sovereignty. As for Israel populated by outsiders? There's been a Jewish presence in Israel since the second century. Several universities in Israel date back to the early 20th century. But to demand a peace agreement when the negotiating party has no intention to keep their deal and furthermore, when that enemy talks about destroying you as they sign a peace agreement , that would be suicidal. The Mideast is on fire at this moment and Israel is the only democracy in the region. Peace is definitely needed and Israelis would like to concentrate in areas other than military growth. But as long as there's no partner to achieve peace, the people of Israel realize that their only choice is hawkish Netanyahu.

[lookin]

No issue with all you say, and I can sure understand Netanyahu's being wary of the Palestinians and making sure he covers Israel's security concerns.

What gives me the pip is his nibbling away at Palestinian territory for years and years and years, while trying to distract everyone with gum-flapping about everything else under the sun.

If he's planning to take over Palestine a settlement at a time, then at least stand up and say so. The Palestinians are starting to say so and, if they can get the ear of the ICC, maybe Netanyahu will come clean and I can go right on back to loving him.

[Guest rimbaud500]

I understand your point and I agree.... There are no easy solutions and the future seems at times ominous. Unfortunately the Palestinians and a large contingent of Bedouins and Druze have been caught in the harsh political quagmire of the Middle East. Their leaders have not done much for their cause. The Hamas mentality of wanting all after they heap destruction on Israel has seriously damaged their chances. Jordan and Lebanon have kept them as pawns in refugee camps with the intention of keeping the Palestinian issue a sore point in the area. Jordan massacred them during Black September but few if any seem to recall that. The Druze in the Golan Heights count their blessings daily enjoying the fact that the Israeli occupation has spared them the nightmare Syria is now going through. As for the settlements it's all a political maneuver to grab territory not an unusual tactic for most countries involved in international disputes. The Israeli left has not been able to fight the fanatical dream of Judea and Samaria. Strange indeed. If you look at the proximity of the areas discussed, when you realize that crude, homemade missiles can reach major cities in Israel from gaza let alone Nablus or Jericho, you understand the need to build a space to buffer the population from attacks. Are the attacks motivated by the Palestinian oppression? Or the oppression starts as the Palestinians and other Arab nations vow to destroy Israel since 1948?? I think it's important before demeaning netanyahu( not my favorite guy by any means), is to understand that Israel is surrounded by enemies and it's only chance is to defend itself at any cost. Few Israelis look at the wall built separating them from the Palestinian areas with joy. But if your neighbor will attack viciously at any moment I think defended, and at times a very determined offense is what any nation would do to survive. When you look not only at the events in turkey Egypt, Iraq, and even Baltimore!!, you realize that Israel has shown great restraint in handling the protests. The latest gaza incursion was a sad chapter in this story.... But any other country would have completely decimated the population, carpet bombing the good and the bad.... With all of the casualties Israel kept an aggressive but not out of control profile. If Mexicans were building tunnels under Texas to suddenly strike at a residential compound, emerging in the middle of the night to murder and kidnap.... Do we think the U.S. Will just hold hands and sing peace songs?

[RA1]

We have so far although the US is singing economic peace songs. Before someone starts, I will agree that "big business" wants "cheap labor" in the form of legal and illegal immigrants BUT the US cannot afford the poor we have now/before. Similar to the Israel questions, there is no easy answer for the US either.

Best regards,

RA1