Thailand becoming the land of frowns?

[lookin]

The 'Ugly American' may be getting a run for his money.

Teething troubles for Chinese tourists in Thailand

Apr 15, 6:12 AM (ET)

By DENIS D. GRAY

CHIANG MAI, Thailand (AP) - The bucolic, once laid-back campus of one of Thailand's top universities is under a security clampdown. Not against a terrorist threat, but against Chinese tourists.

Thousands have clambered aboard student buses at Chiang Mai University, made a mess in cafeterias and sneaked into classes to attend lectures. Someone even pitched a tent by a picturesque lake. The reason: "Lost in Thailand," a 2012 slapstick comedy partly shot on campus that is China's highest-grossing homegrown movie ever.

Now visitors are restricted to entering through a single gate manned by Mandarin-speaking volunteers who direct Chinese tourists to a line of vehicles for guided tours. Individual visitors are banned, and a sign in prominent Chinese characters requesting that passports be produced is posted by the gate.

With their economy surging, mainland Chinese have become the world's most common world traveler, with more than 100 million expected to go abroad this year. In 2012, they overtook the Americans and Germans as the top international spenders, according to the United Nations World Tourism Organization.

But in Chiang Mai and elsewhere, Chinese tourists have acquired the same sort of reputation for loud, uncouth, culturally unaware behavior that inspired the term "Ugly Americans" decades ago.

Many in the tourism industry are delighted by the influx, but 80 percent of 2,200 Chiang Mai residents polled by the university in February said they were highly displeased with Chinese behavior. The survey and numerous comments on Thai social media blamed Chinese for spitting, littering, cutting into lines, flouting traffic laws and allowing their children to relieve themselves in public pools. Some restaurant owners complained of Chinese filling up doggy bags at buffets.

The low point in local-tourist relations here in Thailand's second-largest city was likely a photograph widely seen on the Internet of a person, purportedly Chinese, defecating in the city's ancient moat. *

"Unfortunately, right now, the feeling is very anti-Chinese. In order to bring out such strong feelings in Chiang Mai people, it must be really bad. Generally, Chiang Mai people are quite tolerant of foreigners," says Annette Kunigagon, Irish owner of the long-established Eagle Guesthouse.

But she and others point out that much of the inappropriate behavior applies to tour groups rather than individual travelers who are generally younger, better educated and more attuned to local customs.

. . .

* Note that no one knows for sure that the defecator pictured above is really Chinese, or even a woman. Perhaps one of our regular posters can identify the bum in question.

[Guest Paragon]

Lookin, I will defer to your degree in Thai Studies and its subclass of Smiles v. Frowns. No doubt you have compared this issue throughout Thailand rather than rely on one University in Northern Thailand that might have a specific reason to frown.

I'm relying on much less research and scholarly aptitude. I guess if I had to name it I'd call it personal experience. I went to Thailand in December and again in February, which was my 15th trip. I saw lots of smiles, My sister, who had never been, told me that she could see why it was called The Land of Smiles. But she only went to Bangkok a month after I did, so we might discard the experience in just one city, right?

Let me say that I wouldn't be surprised if these frowns of which you speak do increase as the political situation in Thailand gets direr daily. I wish there was a way to forestall that.

[MsGuy]

In all fairness to lookin's point, I think it's only fair to point out that you yourself weren't likely to be mistaken for Chinese by the average Thai. Possibly that might account for the lack of frowns you encountered.

Well, that and your well known preference for pooping in toilets rather than the moats of historic landmarks.

[lookin]

No doubt you have compared this issue throughout Thailand rather than rely on one University in Northern Thailand that might have a specific reason to frown.

Sadly, just the one article and just the one city, Chang Mai. I'll get busy on the research you suggest, just as soon as I'm finished with another project I'm currently working on.

I'm relying on much less research and scholarly aptitude. I guess if I had to name it I'd call it personal experience. I went to Thailand in December and again in February, which was my 15th trip. I saw lots of smiles, My sister, who had never been, told me that she could see why it was called The Land of Smiles. But she only went to Bangkok a month after I did, so we might discard the experience in just one city, right?

Beats me. Never been, and I don't know whether it's a single kiester dunked in single moat or a bevy of bums bobbing about all over the country. And, for all I know, the sight brings smiles to waterways throughout the land.

Let me say that I wouldn't be surprised if these frowns of which you speak do increase as the political situation in Thailand gets direr daily. I wish there was a way to forestall that.

What is the political situation these days? Are there lots of folks in the streets? If everyone is smiling, what's the beef?

I sure hope the Russians aren't stirring things up.

[MsGuy]

"...I don't know whether it's a single kiester dunked in single moat or a bevy of bums bobbing about all over the country. And, for all I know, the sight brings smiles to waterways throughout the land."

Too funny

[Guest Paragon]

Well, since it's just the three of us here, I'll share this story. For years my trips to Thailand were my separate vacation from the bf, Finally, he just plain out wanted to go, and so we did. As you may know, he is Chinese. Do you see where I am going with this?

Yes, there are hordes of Chinese ancestry Thais living in Thailand. The bf was able to negotiate at the night markets- well, any market for that matter- by speaking the Chinese dialect known as teochew. It was amazing how much better the first offered price was to him versus me. I would have him do my negotiating just to get the lower price. These were Thai people, but if you spoke teochew, then you got the Chinese discount.

So, there are probably millions of Chinese in Thailand, and as far as I know, they have lived harmoniously with the native born Thais, and do consider themselves Thai. They came from an area of China where teochew was the major dialect.

So, you see the problem above was not with Chinese people, it was with Chinese people who speak Mandarin. And if you have ever followed a Mandarin tour group, you will have noticed the distinct lack of manners, pushiness, spitting, and general inability to relate to others. Mandarin speakers, as opposed to, say, Cantonese speakers, are descendants of the Mao Chinese and didn't learn much culture due to this event known as the Cultural Revolution. Teochew and Cantonese speakers were not so lowly.

[MsGuy]

Actually, Mr. P, that kind of makes sense of the situation. Mainland tour group travelers would be of an age to have grown up in the worst years of the Glorious Peoples Cultural Revolution.

Thanks for the post.

[Guest Paragon]

"lookin and MsGuy like this"

See, I told you that it was just the three of us!

So, we have the teochew dialect, the Cantonese dialect, and the Chinese language, Mandarin. Cantonese is mainly spoken in Hong Kong and nearby regions. Mandarin is spoken in mainland China, and the push is on to get everyone speaking it. (There are hundreds of dialects, and they often cannot understand one another.) I didn't know the origins of the teochew dialect, so I looked it up at wikipedia:

The Chaozhou people (commonly known as Teochew) are Chinese people, native to the Chaoshan region of eastern Guangdong province who speak the Teochew dialect. Today, most Teochew people live outside China in Southeast Asia especially in Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam and Indonesia. They can also be found almost anywhere in the world, including North America, Australia and France. The Teochew speak Chinese Teochew dialect, Teochew cuisine is also distinctive. The ancestors of the Teochew people moved to present-day Chaoshan from the Central Plains of China in order to escape from a series of civil wars during the Jin Dynasty.^[1]

The Jin dynasty lasted from the year 265 to 420. Apparently at the end they were all smoking pot and were too laid back to keep the dynasty going.

[axiom2001]

I came here today but will NOT respond! I read and viewed and merely thought! I have been to 'THE LAND OF SMILES' on three occasions, the last being in 2008 for a month. Bangkok, Cha... Mai, Pattaya, and Phuket have seen me, and I've enjoyed them!

Do hope to return one day, and hope that I DON'T encounter hordes of Chinese visitors or any other for that matter. I enjoy a "splattering here and a splattering there.'