Guest lurkerspeaks Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I am 53 years old. I have never stepped foot in a jail cell. I have never been arrested. I have no "record" of any sort. I am a restaurant manager, so i work around lot of younger (late teens, early 20 year olds) people.. It seems like so many of them get arrested, spend time in jail, have records, are on probation, etc.. I just don't get it.. what happened to make it so common place today? Quote
Guest Paragon Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Better law enforcment, no doubt. Your tax dollars at work! Quote
TotallyOz Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Lurker, can you tell me out of curiosity, what percentage of these are black? I ask only as I know the rates for black incarceration is crazy high. I am curious what your potential employee poll is. Quote
Guest EXPAT Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Lack of real parenting is what is happening today versus when we were young. Quote
TotallyOz Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Expat. I don't think so. I think parenting skills have improved. But, I think that we have become a society that incarcerates people for things that should not be illegal. How much of this is drug related? I bet a high number. How many of our friends / ect were doing drugs back in the 60's and 50's? I don't think the numbers have changed that much (maybe I am wrong) but I think the arrests have drastically gone up. Why? IMHO we need to fill prisons to fill coffers. Quote
Guest lurkerspeaks Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 Lurker, can you tell me out of curiosity, what percentage of these are black? I ask only as I know the rates for black incarceration is crazy high. I am curious what your potential employee poll is. Oz, from my personal experience, they are all white. The restaurants I have had the most experiences in have all had predominantly white and/or latino staffs. I think I would agree with the comment about parenting/upbringing. I think the lack of strong, parental figures in the household have made a difference. So many of the "younger generation" were raised by single, working parents and were on their own from an early age. Quote
Guest EXPAT Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I'm certain it's lack of parenting. And I don't think parenting has gotten better. I'm actually shocked you have that opinion. All evidence is to the contrary. Quote
TotallyOz Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 I think there have always been asshole parents. I look back only at a generation or two ahead of me in my family and parents use to beat kids with wood and sticks, belts and etc. Sure, they had fear built into them but IMHO, that does not mean better parenting. I think the Internet and the abundance of choices have skyrocketed and thus given access to more info. But, I still think parents today are better informed than a generation or two ago. Quote
Members wayout Posted March 27, 2014 Members Posted March 27, 2014 Here is my take on it, admittedly from someone without children but I believe I am fairly observant of what goes on around me. Without a doubt it is a complex issue but one of the root causes, imho, does relate to parenting (or lack thereof). It also seems to me that there has been a fundamental shift in the balance of power, for lack of a better phrase, between authority figures and children. The result is a lack of respect for parents, teachers, rules, laws, etc. This often leads to behaviors that progressively get worse because corrective actions aren't taken early enough or aren't as effective as they might be. Years ago that respect may have come from fear to some extent but I think there were many other factors at play as well. Much too often parents are more absent these days, either physically, emotionally or spiritually, because of single parent families or both parents having to work (often multiple jobs). It is easier for parents to be "friends" with their kids rather than deal with real issues such as discipline, teaching and nurturing. Unfortunately, as this progresses through generations, good parenting practices becomes diluted over time and setting a good example for the kids becomes less and less likely. I often read in the local paper about a parent being arrested for shoplifting while with their kids. Consider those not caught doing that and we get an idea of what message they are sending to their offspring. Add to that the need for constant stimulation, instant gratification, greater peer pressure, searching for something that they aren't getting at home, a depressing outlook by many for their future, an ever increasing materialistic society, etc etc and we start to see a spiral downwards. So I am not surprised at what lurker is experiencing. I try to be optimistic about the future but this makes it very difficult to be that way to be honest. As far as parents being better informed, I would argue that while there is more information out there, it is questionable in my mind if that information is always better. So perhaps the reality is that the gap is just getting much bigger....the good parents are getting much better but the bad parents are getting much worse. The question is whether we just pay more attention to the bad or is there really much more on that end of the spectrum? lookin 1 Quote
Members RA1 Posted March 27, 2014 Members Posted March 27, 2014 Single parents either willing to or "having" to turn over "babysitting" responsibilities to teachers has brought on a whole legion of problems. The disintegration of the family unit is a long term failure in our society. Best regards, RA1 boiworship 1 Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted March 27, 2014 Members Posted March 27, 2014 I too tend to believe that part of it lies in parenting... and the school board too. Of course, I had two parents, my kids have two parents, and my grandchildren have two parents. That is not to say that I am indicting single parents across the board. There are many good and successful single parents out there. However, it is harder for a single parent -- it has to be. Also, there are failed two-parent families. That is why we have the discipline of statistics: to describe norms and deviations from norms. Every population has them. Not only do a child's parents influence the child but also the child's friend's parents, indirectly, because kids have influence on other kids. I bring the school boards into this because they, many of them anyway, have been complicit in weakening discipline in our 'children's culture'. I have seen it in my own experience. I've had visibility of local school discipline not only as a student, parent and involved taxpayer but also as the spouse (now ex) of a school teacher and librarian in the public schools. Parents are more demanding of their 'child's rights' whether it is what they wear or their cell phones, or how they are allowed to make up blown-off work after the fact because that parent's child must get into Harvard, etc. Problem students seem to have 'problem teachers' although other students in the class seem not to have issues with teachers. Parents are more litigious, at least in their threats, and school board members more removed from support of the community as a whole because that community is busy with two parents working, often with long commutes daily. Whatever interaction they have with the schools is left to infrequent parent-teacher days if their is a problem that makes a meeting worthwhile. Thus school boards are subject to parental harassment and legal threats and rather than taking the calls and pondering how well-spent school district money on law suits would be, there has been a gradual decline in discipline over the years. It is definitely the case from my experience and observations that many parents today are much more permissive than mine were or I was. Now for the other BIG FACTOR: OPPORTUNITY. Kids have much more opportunity to get in trouble today that in my day. There was essentially none of the illicit drugs available save for alcohol and that was much less available. Kids didn't pass alcohol around among themselves or act as pushers. It came from their parents stash or or they got an of-age person to buy it for them. Most parents watched their stuff and took action if their stock went missing. Few people were willing to get busted for buying for minors. Booze was only available from an authorized outlet. There were no moonshine stands in the neighborhood. They supply was out in the open and regulated. Today, kids supply to other kids whatever is going around at the time. They get supplied from underground illicit sources free of government regulation and tracking. Many kids have cars thus they can travel to the trouble or have it brought to them. No so much in my day. Most kids have cell phones to communicate with each other. That facilitates locating trouble. More travel and unfettered communications provide more opportunity. Bottom line is there is more trouble available now than in years past, it is easier to locate it, and easier to get to it or have it brought to you, either by oneself or a friend/acquaintance, on purpose or by happenstance. That's the way I see it as a former kid in earlier times and as parent in the succeeding years. Quote
Members RA1 Posted March 27, 2014 Members Posted March 27, 2014 I agree about opportunity now vs. before. I am less sure what you mean about school boards. The way I read it is the parents were restricting and compelling the school boards to NOT do their duty to discipline their children and concentrate on an education instead of baby sitting. What did I miss? Best regards, RA1 Quote
Members Bucknaway1614502762 Posted March 27, 2014 Members Posted March 27, 2014 These are the days of zero tolerance multiplied by the number of new laws put on the books. Things that in the past did not get you arrested now you go to jail. Schools will suspend 5 year old kids for using their fingers to simulate a gun and play cops and robbers. Even after all the public pressure for them to stop being so harsh, they now still suspend the children and state in their file that they were being suspended for possession of a class 2 weapon... Take a video of an officer and get arrested regardless of your actions not being illegal and protected by your civil rights. Taken from the Blaze.com As 2013 comes to a close, we turn our attention to 2014 and the nearly 40,000 new laws written by state legislatures set to take effect in the United States next year. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/30/happy-new-year-get-set-for-these-new-laws-to-take-effect-in-2014/ Quote
Members msclelovr Posted March 28, 2014 Members Posted March 28, 2014 I'm intrigued that no-one mentioned the easy availability of 'recreational pharmaceuticals' and 'legal highs'. Certainly in Europe, such drugs are often cheaper than alcohol. And FWIW I agree with the posters who cited the lack of good parenting. Perhaps this ties in with families being formed later in life and the parents relentlessly praising and spoiling their single child (aka the "little Emperor" in China). When such children reach adulthood, making their way independently in the world must seem very hard Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted March 28, 2014 Members Posted March 28, 2014 I agree about opportunity now vs. before. I am less sure what you mean about school boards. The way I read it is the parents were restricting and compelling the school boards to NOT do their duty to discipline their children and concentrate on an education instead of baby sitting. What did I miss? Best regards, RA1 My point about the school boards is this. They are pressured by some parents who object to 'rules' of behavior, dress, and responsibilities as constricting the 'rights' of their children to be who they are and to express themselves whether appropriate to a classroom environment. Add to that demands that accountability must be waived for their child due to undue impact to their lives whether affecting the prom or their otherwise sure entrance to Harvard. Here's an example: Johnny has a classroom behavior problem. Rather than deal with the child the parent blames other students in class for this behavior or the teacher for not having classroom control. My parent would have said (to me): anymore reports of problems in class and I'll tear your ass up! Now it may be true that others in class cause problems or the teacher runs a slack class. Even so, that doesn't mean that student must participate in it as my father would impress on me. Discipline starts at home. If the parents back the teachers the kids get the message. When parents do not, kids also get the message. Quote
Members RA1 Posted March 28, 2014 Members Posted March 28, 2014 I think we are saying the same thing but with slightly different emphasis. We both agree that parents are not parenting. My question is, are weak school boards the result of bad parenting or some other reason? I think it is bad parenting. Achieving a good education should be a co-operation among the parents, school board, teachers and students. A level of discipline above what is rampant now apparently must be restored or instituted. There are many other facets to this problem but this seems to be the most important. Best regards, RA1 Quote
TotallyOz Posted March 28, 2014 Posted March 28, 2014 For those of you that think parents are not parenting, do you feel this is changed or that they never really had good parents in other generations? Quote
Members RA1 Posted March 28, 2014 Members Posted March 28, 2014 Define "good". Best regards, RA1 Quote
Members TampaYankee Posted March 28, 2014 Members Posted March 28, 2014 For those of you that think parents are not parenting, do you feel this is changed or that they never really had good parents in other generations? There have always been cases of bad parenting. However, I believe it 'blossomed' in the late seventies and eighties as the sixties flower generation became parents with school age children. There was a new 'air' of permissiveness to be 'set free to realize one's potential, whatever direction that carried one. Marching to someone else's drum was constrictive, inhibiting, smothering. Well, that is what school or the military or a job is: marching to someone else's drum. I didn't like it but if I wanted an education or job I had to make compromises. I learned I couldn't have it all my way. Lots of today's kids and parents believe it is their right to have it their way. Not all of course or maybe even most but a large enough number to inject problems into the system. MY opinion anyway. Quote
Members RA1 Posted March 28, 2014 Members Posted March 28, 2014 Personally I believe a lot of it started with the Viet Nam war. Liberal and other professors gave away passing grades to males of draft age so they could maintain their deferments. If I don't have to do anything to graduate from Harvard or Cal Tech except be a male of draft age, what else can I get away with, etc. Best regards, RA1 Quote
