The End of Sunee Plaza

[TotallyOz]

Having walked around the plaza many times, it is obvious that almost every bar is for sale. Even those that have been around for many years and do not have a for sale sign are willing to sell. Having discussed purchasing one building for my BF, I found that word spread fast and that many that I did not think would sell, were all offering up their locations. That made me wonder about what those that have been around in the area for a long time think of the current situation. I do wonder if this is not the typical low season lull. I think there are 2 choices to what is happening.

 

1. All the bars WILL enforce the over 18 and up law and this will clean up Sunee and the prices for the bars will skyrocket as many more will be willing to come and enjoy the plaza.

 

2. The entire area will be forces to cease as a gay bar area and perhaps the Arabs will take over the area and make them into the smoking bars that currently surround the area.

 

I am not sure which of those options will actually happen or if it will be something different than the above, but I do think the end of the plaza as we have known it is over. I do not think this is necessarily a bad thing but I do think the owners need to get together to make sure the area stays a viable gay haven for us. Hopefully some will have the foresight to ensure this will happen.

[Gaybutton]

I do not think this is necessarily a bad thing

 

Neither do I. I see it as a very good thing. I doubt that the bars are all going to eventually close. Maybe the ownership will change hands, but I think the gay bars are there to stay. I think the end result of all this will be a major cleanup of the area, which is exactly what many of us have been hoping for many years.

 

I see no valid excuse at all for bars to intentionally flout the law by hiring under-age boys. Doing so may satisfy the pedophile brigade, but look at the effect on everybody else. Now you can't go to Sunee Plaza without wondering whether you're going to be there just in time for a raid. You can't take a boy off unless you not only check his ID, but you also have to make sure it is actually his ID. You can't be sure that the police won't also check the farang customers for ID and now you face the possibility of arrest if you are not carrying your actual passport, as the law requires.

 

I hope the result will be all the bars operating legitimately for a change. You can bet that the under-age boys and pedophiles will find some other place and some other way to hook up. Fine with me. Let them. Just get them the hell out of Sunee Plaza so that everyone can enjoy being there without all this nonsense hanging over our heads. At the moment, there are some bars I'm afraid to even enter because of all the under-age boys. And they're still there and still operating despite the frequent raids. Quite often there is a tip-off before the raids and the under-age, drug ridden, and illegal alien boys skedaddle. Many of us have been in Sunee Plaza and we hear that a raid will take place as much as two or three hours prior to the raid actually occurring.

 

Personally, I do not fear being there when a raid occurs, but it also would be no fun and would spoil the evening. I look forward to the day when these raids are no longer necessary. In my opinion, the reason the bars hire under-age boys in the first place is because they know there are a lot of customers who want them. How about giving us something else, such as innovative ideas, that will attract just as many customers without having to resort to the use of under-age boys.

 

If you're a bar owner and want to make money, then give me a good reason to patronize your particular bar. Under-age, drug ridden boys isn't the reason. I thought some of the ideas at the Birdcage were excellent ideas, but the location was a poor choice. When Jungle Boys first opened, the idea behind it was good, but the set-up didn't work. Still, at least those were different ideas. I think new, fresh ideas is what Sunee Plaza needs. If nothing else, at least get your dancers to actually dance instead of standing there looking bored and doing the "one-knee shuffle." You'll get me into your bar a lot more often if you reduce the music volume so that I can at least talk to the person sitting next to me and I don't have to walk out of there in pain from my ears throbbing.

 

If you're putting on a show, try coming up with something different from a variation of the same show you'll see in just about every other bar that puts on a show. Try telling the mama-sans to provide service to the customers without being pushy. Try doing raffles for free offs or doing what Monty is doing; no charge for offs after the show is over. Try happy hour drink prices during certain time periods. Try anything, as long as it's something different and doesn't include having to worry about whether your boys are under-age.

 

One more thing. In a few bars, try cleaning up your toilets.

[Guest laurence]

I think there are 2 choices to what is happening.

 

1. All the bars WILL enforce the over 18 and up law and this will clean up Sunee and the prices for the bars will skyrocket as many more will be willing to come and enjoy the plaza.

 

2. The entire area will be forces to cease as a gay bar area and perhaps the Arabs will take over the area and make them into the smoking bars that currently surround the area.

 

In reply to #1 it sounds as if you are saying Sunnee will become another Boyztown? Will that really attract the crowd?

 

As for #2 I do think this could happen in some form.

 

And as for Gaybutton and his comment of "brigades" of pedos I think that is an exageration considering a typical brigade consists of 4,000 to 5,000 people.

 

[Gaybutton]

And as for Gaybutton and his comment of "brigades" of pedos I think that is an exageration considering a typical brigade consists of 4,000 to 5,000 people.

 

Now, now . . . I used the singular form of "brigade," but you're right. I suppose it's an exaggeration. That's what happens when you hold rank in the 'Barmy Army.'

[Guest]

Now, now . . . I used the singular form of "brigade," but you're right. I suppose it's an exaggeration. That's what happens when you hold rank in the 'Barmy Army.'

 

The Barny Army was a term used to describe a group of gossip guys in the Plaza. It was so termed to make fun of one of their members who the poster claimed to look like Barny the dinosaur. It also referred to the group of kids that were attracted to Barny. The reference to pedophile was inherent in the joke. I don't think it anywhere appropriate to keep bringing this up as it may cause other hurt feelings in the group. And, as they no longer post on this board, I think it best for us to just move beyond them all. I thought it was cruel back then and I still think so today even though those posters and that feud have moved to other boards. IMHO

 

 

As for #2 I do think this could happen in some form.

 

I do think this is possible. It may take a few years but it is possible. Sad but possible.

[PattayaMale]

In the latest edition of Pattaya Mail an article says that many bars were checked and no bar was in violation of the legal age law and all licenses were in order. The problem seems to be OUTSIDE the bars.

 

If the article is correct, why not acknowledge that owners are now complying instead of continuing to stereotype the area?

 

 

[Gaybutton]

The Barny Army was a term used to describe a group of gossip guys in the Plaza.

 

I hate to break the news, but that's not the term I used. It has nothing to do with Barny, the Dinosaur or the group about which you refer. The term I used is Barmy Army, which means:

 

"The Barmy Army is an organised group of cricket fans which organises touring parties of its members to follow the English cricket team on all of its overseas tours. The group acquired its name during the 1994 - 1995 Test series in Australia and has represented the England fans on every tour since. . . . ."

 

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barmy_Army

 

To my knowledge it also means people who have reached a certain age at which the cheese starts slipping from their Ritz cracker. Their golf bag is short a few irons. They're a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Somehow, I think all of those can easily apply to me.

[Guest lester1]

Glad that GB was able to put GT right. We all know that GT occasionally drools over his keyboard as he tries to get his mind back to the 60's which was when its was last fully functioning. God knows what all that nonsense about Barney was, something to do with the Flintstones perhaps.

Cricket lovers will know, as GB says that the Barmy Army is an affectionate term for the supporters of the English cricket team.

 

On the main issue, I am not sure it is wise to confine the future of Sunee as to whether it will return to Pedo heaven, evolve into Boys Town mark II, or even become Arabic. I still feel that any business plan at the moment will be undermined by the simple fact that tourist numbers are way way down.

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately, you are both wrong as that is NOT what has been referred to on the boards. Believe your fantasy.

[Gaybutton]

Unfortunately, you are both wrong

 

I'm wrong? Moi? Oh well, there's a first time for everything . . . .

[Guest luvthai]

If anything is to be the downfall of Sunee it will probably be the reputation it has earned, No matter what happens from now on it will always have a pedo heaven reputation. No matter that 90 percent of the bars obey the laws and do their best to run a good business. The street kids will simply move to another area and continue to struggle to survive. Its not just Sunee that is struggling but the whole entertainment industry is taking a huge hit. The first blow was dealt by the shortened business hours and again by the high tax on alcohol causing prices to soar both of which happened under the Thaskin gov't. Tourist did not like going on vacation only too have everything close up by 1am and started looking for other destinations. Everything over the last couple years has been aimed at making running a business very tough.

[Smiles]

I always thought it was the Balmy Army (not 'Barny', or 'Barmy').

 

Just doublechecked on a web thesaurus and found this:

 

ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms

 

Adj. 1. balmy - informal or slang terms for mentally irregular; "it used to drive my husband balmy"

bats, batty, bonkers, buggy, crackers, daft, dotty, haywire, kookie, kooky, loco, loony, around the bend, nuts, round the bend, wacky, whacky, nutty, barmy, loopy, fruity, cracked

insane - afflicted with or characteristic of mental derangement; "was declared insane"; "insane laughter"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/balmy

 

Sounds very much like what those guys GT's talking about. Anyway, 'Barny' is spelled 'Barney' with an 'e', so as far as I'm concerned ~ on this one (and a few others ) ~ GayThailand is obviously balmy.

 

Cheers ...

[Guest lester1]

The trouble with boards like this is that anything controversial always encourages the losers with too much time on their hands to run to the archives and dictionaries in order to come back with a swift putdown (me included).

Now we have Smiles coming back with his balmy theory and GT saying that GB is wrong and was not the first person to mention barmy even though he was.

To summarise the score so far GB and Lester1 ...2 points; Losers (GT and Smiles)....0 points.

 

[Guest]

To summarise the score so far GB and Lester1 ...2 points; Losers (GT and Smiles)....0 points.

 

LOL. Perhaps you are right But, does knowing the inside scoop of the way it was used count for any points at all?

 

 

Sounds very much like what those guys GT's talking about. Anyway, 'Barny' is spelled 'Barney' with an 'e', so as far as I'm concerned ~ on this one (and a few others ) ~ GayThailand is obviously balmy.

 

Cheers ...

 

Smiles, also the original poster who spelled the word Barny is not exactly known for his spelling. But, perhaps you can look that one up too.

 

As far as I go, I will have to be balmy as I don't think they come much fruitier. But, I am not definitely not part of the Barny/Balmy/Barney group or any semblance thereof.

 

Just keep calling me nutty and I'll be find with that. I am used to that and it fits me fine. And you Smiles, would you be Balmy? Or is that gun to your head in the Avatar just comedy?

 

 

Cheers.

[Gaybutton]

Sheeeeeesh! The thread about the future of Sunee Plaza is turning into the Great Barny, Barney, Barmy, Balmy Debate. Ok, I give up. I won't use any of those words again in future threads. Now I'm sorry I used it in the first place now. I didn't know it was going to cause a brouhaha.

 

While the rest of you debate about it, I'm kind of interested in what people have to say about their ideas concerning the future of Sunee Plaza. You remember that, don't you . . . the subject of this thread? As far as Barny, Barney, Barmy, and Balmy, and lord-knows-what, who cares?

[Guest yedo]

I think Sunee Plaza have too many bars , many farang owners think its a good idea to own a bar and then you end up with 50 bars and clubs in the area and its almost impossible to survive , especially during the low season.

 

Many owners (thais) will have under age boys if they know it will attract customers , they will do anything for a farang , if they are paid enough.

 

So lets get rid of 50% of the bars and then maybe it will be enough customers and a cleaner area , but in the end its up to the police , they have raided the area so many times now so if they really mean business then its a good thing.

 

But lets close the under age bars first! For good!

 

 

[Guest luvthai]

Well Yedo, If the raids continue and the economy continues to slide than your wish for fewer bars will happen. We already have seen Birdcage and Flamingo Hotel close. Many many bars are up for sale and tourism is way down. In fact you may end up with no bars or guest houses open.

[Guest laurence]

Upon further reflection I do believe that Sunnee Plaza will cease to exist as a gay venue. Why? Increased cost of air fares will lessen the number of frequent flyers; the photo-op raids and resultant negative publicity will deter visitors; the posting on forums, like this one, about "yet another pedo arrested" will scare people away; the constant whining about pedos and druggies ruining it for the "rest of us" serves no useful purpose; and most importantly I do not see the "regulars" of Sunnee Plaza spending time and money in the clubs. Even he who speaks the loudest does not, by his admission, put his money where his mouth is and support the businesses. Yes, there are many regulars who frequent the outdoor bars but do they also spend their baht in the clubs? I see many boys on stage but few farang in the audience. A sign of low season or an omen of what is to come? As I walk the plazza it resemble a wake, eveyone sitting, chatting and drinking, not quite sure if the corpse is truly dead or just sleeping. Hope I am wrong.

[Gaybutton]

the constant whining about pedos and druggies ruining it for the "rest of us" serves no useful purpose

 

That's your opinion, an opinion I do not share. Do you suggest we hide the truth and stop reporting these incidents? Are we to stop our 'whining' because you've unilaterally decided it serves no useful purpose?

[Guest luvthai]

I think Sunee will bounce back eventually. As the economy worsens and the real impact of fewer tourist dollars both in the sales and the entertainment industry really hits home there will be a easing of restrictions. Up till now the dollars have been sufficient to keep the graft and payoffs coming in but as businesses close and there is less money being collected things will change. Greed will return things to the way they were.

[Guest]

I think Sunee will bounce back eventually. As the economy worsens and the real impact of fewer tourist dollars both in the sales and the entertainment industry really hits home there will be a easing of restrictions. Up till now the dollars have been sufficient to keep the graft and payoffs coming in but as businesses close and there is less money being collected things will change. Greed will return things to the way they were.

 

Honestly, an opinion that did not even cross my mind.

[Guest laurence]

Greed will return things to the way they were.

 

Well, I do hope so luvthai! But the nature of greed may just squeeze the life out of the businesses to the point of no return. The next high season will be a good indication of things to come.

[Guest ezfonzata]

The only thing that's changed in Sunee is the heightened frequency of raids; both for underage boys and drugs (the latter is seemingly of more importance to the local BiB). The new mayor is dead set on the futile attempt to transform Pattaya into Disneyland for happy families, and has instituted a new operational paradigm in the aforementioned ideal.

 

Years back I can remember a certain bar where the [always empty] Don Plaza hotel now sits, which was full of school-aged boys and the men that seek them, and it was open every night for a very long time and was only shut down about a year and a half ago. Sunee has always been a place for underage boys and it's only recently been a problem for those of us who prefer not to dabble with fire. Years ago, Sunee was hopping with people every night and no one took much notice of the street kids and the p-crowd, as there was a severe lack of unannounced raids because no one seemed to care. Times have changed, and Sunee is now emptying because either the lack of underage boys (or the bars that allow them in), or people who just don't wish to associate with the area anymore because of a heightened police presence.

 

Basically, what my response boils down to is that the presence of underage boys was never a problem for businesses until the last couple years - it's the attempted clean-ups that's killing the legitimate venues in the area.

 

Things in Thailand always go in waves - I don't see much changing in the Plaza, as it will eventually revert back to what it has always been.

[Gaybutton]

Things in Thailand always go in waves - I don't see much changing in the Plaza, as it will eventually revert back to what it has always been.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if you turn out to be right. It's the old story . . . everything changes, but nothing changes.

[Guest luvthai]

The only question is how many business owners have the resources to stay in for the long haul? Not many i would guess but there will always be someone wanting to open a bar. But that brings up another problem, will we have to go thru all this again with new owners that think they will be able to get away with doing what they want? It is indeed a cycle.