Guest Asmerom Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 I guess I already know the explosions of mirth and condemnation followed by dire warnings of the wrath that's likely to fall on my innocent head ,after you hear my question. Some time ago a boy, my occaisional boyfriend, 20 years old, whom I've known for about four months, stole my Camcorder. To cut the story short, he says he's bringing it back after expressing regrets. I thought his expressions of remorse might be genuine and anyway isn't it resonable and compassionate to give him another chance to redeem himself? At the moment he's living with his parents in Kanchanaburi. He's just phoned to say he wants to bring his brother aged 10 to stay in my Condo for a few days.I was delighted and told him I would be very happy indeed to entertain this child. He would have a great time on Jomtien beach and I would have a great time playing Daddy. Idyllic. Wonderful. Like a real family. Then suddenly all sorts of dreadful scenarios flood into my mind.Is this a setup? Is he going to blackmail me with threats of informing the police I'm having sex with a minor? Has his father put him up to it? Is it a carefully conceived plan? I regret to say, the source of such horrible thoughts is this board. So many dire warnings of appalling things which will certainly happen to the innocent and naive.I feel as if my mind has been polluted and can never again assume that a boy is acting honestly and innocently. Can this seemingly charming,affectionate,young man really be so evil? Is he really remorseful or just coming back for bigger pickings? If it actually worked out as badly as I've surmised I'd lose all hope in human nature. Is all innocence dead, as this board seems to believe? The Question is : Do I ring back and say NO WAY can you bring your young brother? I can well imagine, if there are any replies, that the gist will be will be "Let a ten year old into your Condo!!!!! Are you mad!!! Not really. Just so happy to feel normal for a few days.
Guest luvthai Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 To save you a little face I think you should offer to pay for a room for him and his brother to stay in and also make it clear that he would need to be with his brother anytime you are present. It is indeed a bad time to be seen with one so young no matter how innocent it would be. And I am not so sure that I would forgive and forget that quickly.
Gaybutton Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 I agree with Luvthai. While I have no reason to suspect there is an intent to set you up for blackmail, the times are dangerous regarding gay farang with an under-age boy under his roof, no matter how innocent it might be. I like the hotel idea. You can always concoct some sort of a story that gives legitimacy to a reason why you can't have any guests at the time they will be there. You could also be honest with the boy about your concerns and explain it is a risk you don't want to take. After all, it's your home and you shouldn't have to be fearful in your own home. If you have some time before they arrive, maybe it would be a good idea to consult a reputable Thai attorney about your concerns. If this was a few years ago, I would have said you're creating a problem that doesn't really exist. Today, however, I think if it were me I would have similar concerns. I also agree with Luvthai. The kid stole your camcorder. Ok, now he says he regrets it, he's sorry, and wants to return it, but do you really think it's such a good idea to have that same boy stay in your home? Maybe his conscience won't bother him so much over the next item he decides to take on a little journey away from home.
Guest lester1 Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 Lets make it easy and put it into numbers. For the sake of argument, lets say there is a 95% chance that the whole episode of the kid staying with you in your room turns out OK. This means there is a 5% chance of some sort of scam. The simple question is this. Would you risk your reputation, security, freedom and innocence on odds such as that. You would be foolish in the current climate. If you do, rashly in my view, go ahead then you could take a precaution a mate of mine did a few years ago. He got a written statement in Thai from the boys parents, signed, addressed, and with copies of the parents ID cards attached, saying he had their permission to look after him. This is BY NO MEANS waterproof as the police would do what they always do with evidence that goes against what they are wanting to prove ie ignore it. This friend of mine could speak fluent Thai as well. If the police find that you cant even communicate with either the boy or his brother then they will think the worst. I think you also lay it on a bit thick as well, with all that over the top nonsense about how this board has given you horrible thoughts, with your mind polluted, innocence destroyed etc etc. The vast majority of gays who come here to trade money for sex and companionship are usually compromised in these areas after about one week!
Guest Asmerom Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 I agree with Luvthai. I like the hotel idea. You can always concoct some sort of a story that gives legitimacy to a reason why you can't have any guests at the time they will be there. You could also be honest with the boy about your concerns and explain it is a risk you don't want to take. After all, it's your home and you shouldn't have to be fearful in your own home. If you have some time before they arrive, maybe it would be a good idea to consult a reputable Thai attorney about your concerns. .... do you really think it's such a good idea to have that same boy stay in your home? Maybe his conscience won't bother him so much over the next item he decides to take on a little journey away from home. Thanks for these very reasonable comments and suggestions.I will explore the extra room idea. They would have a separate bedroom here with me, but still under my roof. Yes, I would feel fearful in my own home and I agree its not something I should tolerate when the source of the fear is the boy who's behaved so badly in the past. Its his own fault. And I would always be thinking he could do the same again; this time relieving me of my expensive precious Apple Mac Pro laptop. I suppose I have to admit that I don't really know the boy.Does he have a history of thieving? I don't know. Or maybe his treatment of me is simply the characteristic Thai way of screwing falangs till the pips squeak. We're all "fair game" and few Thais would condemn it. It might even elevate his reputation back home. But I don't know that either. On the other hand, if he really is remorseful and he meets with my implacable mistrust I'm hardly contributing my share to his rehabilitation. Such an attitude will only confirm his existing behaviours. Believing in his change of heart, trusting him, is the only approach that would encourage him to choose the straight and narrow. Unfortunately,I doubt that I have the strength of mind or purpose to act in that Christian like manner of self sacrifice. They don't arrive till 21st July so I do have time to prepare. I wonder GB ,if you could tell me the name of a "reputable Thai attorney". It feels like a good thing to know.
Bob Posted July 16, 2008 Posted July 16, 2008 It's up to you and I'm not going to pass judgment on whatever you do. If it was me....given the possibility (however remote) of nefarious intent by your past friend, the possibility (however remote) that either neighbors or police might misinterpret, and just the political correctness of the day, there is no way I would allow the 10-year old to stay in my condo or hotel room. Not a chance. And, if I thought there was any chance I might end up in bed with my past friend, I'm simply tell him don't even bother bringing his 10-year-old kid brother to town (where's the 10-year-old going to be when this happens and/or what is he aware about it?). While we all understand and say that the Thais are very tolerant of gays, I personally believe that a lot of Thais don't like it at all and simply don't express that displeasure. Let's not forget what the scene is here that you're talking about - your boyfriend (a Thai boy you've historically had sex with - and I'm not sure if that was moneyboy situation or not) is coming to stay/visit with his falang boyfriend and bringing a 10-year-old brother with him. Sounds like a bunch of red flags to me (and it is almost unfathomable to me that anybody else who might know the guy was your boyfriend wouldn't wonder what the heck was going on with the younger brother). Based on what you've written here, I'd trust you.....but it isn't me you have to worry about. If the 10-year-old's parent was there, then I'd have a totally different view and basically wouldn't worry about it at all. Whatever happens, hope it works out for you.
Guest Asmerom Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 .... there is no way I would allow the 10-year old to stay in my condo or hotel room. Not a chance. And, if I thought there was any chance I might end up in bed with my past friend, I'm simply tell him don't even bother bringing his 10-year-old kid brother to town (where's the 10-year-old going to be when this happens and/or what is he aware about it?). ...... and I'm not sure if that was moneyboy situation or not) If the 10-year-old's parent was there, then I'd have a totally different view and basically wouldn't worry about it at all. Whatever happens, hope it works out for you. Well, thanks a lot guys. As expected, you've scared the living daylights out of me with all your forecasts of doom and gloom if I so much as say boo to a 10 year old boy who is clearly visiting me with his parents full permission. Presumably my boy has told them I'm a great guy who would look after him and his younger brother and give him a good time at the seaside for a few days. Any child would be excited at such a prospect. Sorry, I'm just drooling on as if I were a normal human being forgetting the realities of the nightmare existence you paint-maybe correctly. So much for pleasant little "family" outings on the beach, elephant rides,ice-creams jet ski rides,etc,.Well, I suppose they can all still take place but , Christ Almighty,what an unpleasant stench will surround these innocent activities. "Moneyboy situation", you ask. Are you implying that most farang situations don't involve money? It appears to me that the whole roundabout is fuelled by little else.Without it the circus would collapse.What's the alternative? A love situation? What % of farang relationships are fonded on that precious commodity? Yes, indeed ; there's every chance I'd end up in bed with my young companion.He gives me a great time there. But since when does legal sexual activity preclude other forms of relationship, such as with the younger brother? The family unit is organised thus. The brother would be in the next room watching TV. Is he aware of "it" you wonder. Well, whenever he rings me from his home my boy is always surrounded by his father, mother, and three brothers all noisily in the background. Its this which makes me observe that having a tame farang in the family is possibly a perfectly acceptable part of modern Thai culture. The sexual aspect of it doesn't raise hackles as it would in a Christian society. Buddhism is definitely a more tolerant creed. And maybe the boy is highly prised for his farang skills. I just hope his expertise doesn't yet extend to blackmail. Hopefully he has not yet graduated in that black art. I remain vigilant and highly appreciative of all the helpful dire warnings however depressing.
Gaybutton Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I wonder GB ,if you could tell me the name of a "reputable Thai attorney". Rachain Kluanklard A.C.E.S. Advisors Co., Ltd. 15/35 M. 5 Naklua Banglamung Chonburi 20150 aces@loxinfo.co.th telephone: 038 411 127 On North Road (Pattaya Nua) look for The Balcony restaurant, a little to the west of the Tesco-Lotus on the same side of the street. The office is on the 4th floor of the same building the restaurant is in.
Guest lvdkeyes Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 What assurance do you have that the 10 year old is, in reality, his brother? I would kiss the camcorder good bye and move on. Just my humble opinion. Yes, I am aware what "they" say about opinions.
Guest buaseng Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Thanks for these very reasonable comments and suggestions.I will explore the extra room idea. They would have a separate bedroom here with me, but still under my roof. Sorry, but if you do that you may just as well allow the 10 yr old to sleep in your own bed. A seperate room under your roof will not help you one iota if this is a scam designed to entrap you or extort money. IMHO if you want to resume your relationship with your 'boyfriend' fine, but tell him that you will in no way agree to him bringing his 10 yr old brother, especially anywhere near your condo, or to you meeting the lad under such circumstances. If your 'boyfriend' will not go along with this tell him your relationship is over (you will of course have to forego the return of you camcorder but that is a small price to pay for your future security and possibly freedom). The bottom line is that having a 10 yr old boy anywhere near your condo or having any sort of relationship with him away from his parents is fraught with danger and will more than likely to cause you financial grief and probably a loss of liberty.
Guest Asmerom Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 What assurance do you have that the 10 year old is, in reality, his brother? Well, Im fairly sure he's not his sister.
Guest Asmerom Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Sorry, but if you do that you may just as well allow the 10 yr old to sleep in your own bed The bottom line is that having a 10 yr old boy anywhere near your condo or having any sort of relationship with him away from his parents is fraught with danger and will more than likely to cause you financial grief and probably a loss of liberty. Well well!! I think that post is perhaps the strongest yet on the apparent foolhardiness of entertaining the younger brother of my "reformed" boyfriend. Very stern indeed." Fraught with danger, a term in gaol, topped up with financial ruin". How I am beginning to long for the rolling manicured hills of the South Downs and quiet country rambles along leafy Devon lanes heavy with scent after recent showers. I'm thinking about it .But I confess I've no idea how it will play out but supported by these strongly worded opinions I may indeed manage to suffocate my natural human inclination to behave normally and to suppress all my natural desire to act kindly and compassionately. I'll try, but it will be very difficult.
Guest LP Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I think you indicated earlier that it is your first visit in Thailand. What bothers me with your posts is that it seems you already formed very strong views about the Pattaya and the country in general. I assure you that you know nothing. This is a very complicated society. Many farangs stay here for years and have no idea that they are not in Kansas anymore. You may think you have a relationship with a guy. You do not. The guy does not give a damn about you. It takes many years to build a trustful relationship with a Thai and even after many years some farangs discover quite unpleasant truth. It is most probably not a set up as Lester indicated. The bottom line, however, is the guy managed to create a number of head aches for you for a short period of time. Get rid of him. Period. You may think it is worthwhile to go through some pain to build a relationship but trust me you build nothing except for more and more headaches..
Guest buaseng Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I'm thinking about it. But I confess I've no idea how it will play out but supported by these strongly worded opinions I may indeed manage to suffocate my natural human inclination to behave normally and to suppress all my natural desire to act kindly and compassionately. Let's just hope that, when thinking, your brain is in your head and not between your legs! Anyone with any sense can see that having an unaccompanied 10 yr old Thai boy anywhere near your condo or in your presence without his parents is foolhardy in the extreme. But maybe what you call a "human inclination to behave 'normally' and to suppress all my natural desire to act kindly and compassionately " has a hidden meaning and intention which we are missing? If so, you are even more foolish than we are being led to believe.
Guest Asmerom Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I assure you that you know nothing. This is a very complicated society.................................. You may think you have a relationship with a guy. You do not. The guy does not give a damn about you. ........... It is most probably not a set up as Lester indicated. The bottom line, however, is the guy managed to create a number of head aches for you for a short period of time. Get rid of him. Period. You may think it is worthwhile to go through some pain to build a relationship but trust me you build nothing except for more and more headaches.. What more can I say? Not one word of support from anyone. I conclude you are all of you right. Pass me the valium. No, on second thoughts make that the hemlock.
Guest luvthai Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I have a feeling that all our advice will not be heeded. From reading his replies I can see that he is leaning toward taking his chances with the boy and his brother. I hope things go well for you and we will not be reading of yet another farang arrest.
Guest Asmerom Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Let's just hope that, when thinking, your brain is in your head and not between your legs! But maybe what you call a " a human inclination to behave 'normally' and to suppress all my natural desire to act kindly and compassionately [/i]" has a hidden meaning and intention which we are missing? If so, you are even more foolish than we are being led to believe. Well,its foul thoughts like that (which only you, of all the contributers have expressed) which lead me to doubt the sanity of your other observations and even cast a shadow over all the warnings and strictures expressed in this thread. It makes one wonder what is the source of all this bile. Could others be rooting their opinions in such warped and bilious thoughts which have to find hidden meanings in the most innocent words. Such a hideous and deliberate distortion of my words must say more about you than me.
Gaybutton Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 Gentlemen, let's not get into a pissing contest, ok? Asmerom asked for advice and people have given it. Now he has to decide whether to heed the advice. I see no need for that to degenerate into a war of words.
Guest mauRICE Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 At the moment he's living with his parents in Kanchanaburi. He's just phoned to say he wants to bring his brother aged 10 to stay in my Condo for a few days. When is this proposed visit and how long is "a few days"? Doesn't this boy go to school? At 10, he is still within the compulsory school-going age and as far as I know there are no government school holidays coming up. The next public holiday after tomorrow is August 12, Mother's Day, and it falls on Tuesday this year. That's just one day. This little detail alone would have triggered a host of questions from me.
Guest mauRICE Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 So much for pleasant little "family" outings on the beach, elephant rides,ice-creams jet ski rides,etc,.Well, I suppose they can all still take place but , Christ Almighty,what an unpleasant stench will surround these innocent activities. And while you're out and about organising these noble activities, don't forget to stock up on Jesus juice - the boys get thirsty, you know.
Gaybutton Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 When is this proposed visit and how long is "a few days"? He did say July 21, so he still has a couple days to make his decision. Here's another possibility: Why not reverse it? Instead of them coming to stay at your condo, why not go to Kanchanaburi yourself? That way, you can be the one who stays in a hotel - without having to deal with the 10 year old being under the same roof, can check to see if the 10 year old is really his brother, get your camcorder back, make your decisions as to whether you want the boyfriend in your life, and make an easy retreat if you decide things aren't going to work out. The worst that can happen would be, if nothing else, you get a short holiday out of it.
Bob Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I may indeed manage to suffocate my natural human inclination to behave normally and to suppress all my natural desire to act kindly and compassionately. I don't see where anyone suggested you dispense with any kindness or compassion. Some, though, have suggested you not dispense with some intelligence about the situation. I have no problem if you disagree with any of the thoughts or suggestions, but it's a bit over the top to get a bit snarky about other people's thoughts which you solicited in the first place! I'm now beginning to wonder why you wanted anybody else's opinions about the subject in the first place. Regardless, be smart, be lucky, and chok dee.
Gaybutton Posted July 17, 2008 Posted July 17, 2008 I'm now beginning to wonder why you wanted anybody else's opinions about the subject in the first place. Sometimes people solicit the opinions of others because they are hoping to have their own opinion reinforced by having others tell them what they want to hear. If it doesn't work out that way, that's when they become upset.
Guest Asmerom Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Sometimes people solicit the opinions of others because they are hoping to have their own opinion reinforced by having others tell them what they want to hear. If it doesn't work out that way, that's when they become upset. Although I have often found your advice unpalatable it is invariaby intelligent, informative, restrained, reasonably argued , based on years of experience and always clearly expressed. But with this last post I feel you've come off the rails. In your previous post also you actually lumped me in the same category as the person who had suggested I might be a closet peodophile, by referring to us both as "Gentlemen" .I object to this and I also objected to having my words strangulated out of their proper meanings by someone with an axe to grind and a private agenda of his own.That's what "upset" me ,not the reason you suggest, for which there's no evidence in my remarks. If my objection to someone smearing my name with outrageously false accusations is said to be feeling "snarky about other people's thoughts" ( a previous post) and getting "upset" because I was being told things I didn't want to hear I think I can accuse you of momentarily letting your eye off the ball. A closer reading of what was said would surely justify my very restrained remarks. Or, Heaven forbid, perhaps you feel sympathetic with those insults and feel they have every right to be made. You haven't expressed much concern about it.Your concern seems to be more directed at condemning my response to being labelled a peodophile. I would like to close this thread. I think its run its natural course and seems now only to be providing fodder for frayed tempers to get up my nose.
KhorTose Posted July 18, 2008 Posted July 18, 2008 Sometimes people solicit the opinions of others because they are hoping to have their own opinion reinforced by having others tell them what they want to hear. If it doesn't work out that way, that's when they become upset. BINGO.................... Bob you and GB are correct. Since he was receiving such good advice i stayed out of the conversation. Lucky me.
