A Serious Question

[Lucky]

One of the things I have enjoyed in the past are the discussions between various members of topics that carry a little more weight than some of our more light-hearted topics. Sadly, we see fewer of these. I think one reason is that there are members who simply don't want to get serious, which is fine. But sometimes they express that by participating in the thread without any real contribution other than to sabotage it. So, I would ask anyone who does not want to participate if they would refrain from doing so,

My question is this: Does commitment mean anything anymore? So often commitment has meaning in the abstract, or when it is easy. But, when the going gets tough, people run. There are probably numerous examples, and i welcome you to suggest them, of how people find ways to avoid commitments they have made.

Given the divorce rate in this country, it is clear that for some people marriage commitments are simply made tongue in cheek. Yet we hear of many instances of divorced partners helping out when the former spouse encounters trouble that you cannot make an absolute statement on that.

So, how about starting with this one and going from there:

I, Lucky, take you, Gorgeous, to be my lawfully wedded husband, to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

That's a pretty firm commitment, so it seems. What do you see as loopholes?

( I realize that this may be the last post in this thread, but thanks for reading this far.)

[Guest hitoallusa]

A commitment to another person comes with a lot of responsibilities but some people get into it without thinking about it seriously. I blame it on chick flicks which I enjoy immensely; It makes me dream about my unrealistic prince. Fortunately, i have seen many people around me committed to their spouse and family so I guess some people stay committed however difficult and challenging it might be. But I don't expect everyone to be able to do that and I don't want them to feel guilty or bad about not being able to commit. I think negative notions and prejudice for breaking commitments or marriages should be lifted. Not everybody can stay committed as some of my friends do but let's not think it is a serious problem or those who break their commitment should be tossed into the entire fire of hell

[TotallyOz]

In my opinion, commitment can take various forms and mean such different things to different people. I have had the same Thai boyfriend for almost 10 years and I am committed to him. I am committed financially. I am committed to his future. I am committed to helping him succeed in life. I am committed to helping him better himself. I am committed to spending as much time with him as I can when I am in Thailand

But, I am not committed to being his only sexual partner. It is not something I want or need. It is not something he wants or needs. And, while some people view commitment as only a remain faithful to your spouse concept, I view it as something totally different.

I was just in Thailand for 4 months. Daily, he was committed to helping me with work to ease the load. Daily he was committed to making me happy and me making him happy. Daily we were committed to getting each other off. But, I am now gone and I want him to enjoy life and love and sex and while he will be with someone else and I will be with someone or ones else, we are still committed to each other.

What is your definition of commitment?

[Guest hitoallusa]

Shh Oz you can talk openly about us on here.. I don't want want to be official until we have our secret wedding.. lol..

I will be with someone.

I guess commitment could take in many forms. I want a 100% commitment from my hubby.. But maybe I need to relax my expectation a little to 99% Commitment could be hard but it could be rewarding too so let's see...

[AdamSmith]

I don't know if you would call this a "loophole," or instead fidelity to the contract: In my marriage, I ultimately concluded that the phrase "til death do us part" had in fact come to apply -- our relationship had died.

This was only after long application to repair and revive it -- more than half a decade of working together with a couples shrink, and other things. Was that decision exploiting a loophole, or something else?

[Lucky]

The trouble with commitment is that things change. And people often mix commitment with fidelity. I know that we could play lawyer games and find ways to say that commitment thing no longer exists.

For me, it is basically a promise. I always try to keep my promises unless the other person relieves me of the commitment. And even then, if he were in danger, I'd try to honor it.

The 'in sickness and in health" one is very hard. We see all of the time older couples staying together even as one's health falls apart. But I think it is a noble commitment, to be honored unless the person's health begins to damage the partner's health. You don't have to die to honor a commitment.

These are major life events, usually between married folks. What about commitments made to friends?

[TotallyOz]

Lucky, on 29 Oct 2013 - 6:44 PM, said:

What about commitments made to friends?

I have always hoped to find me a few "Golden Girls" and live out my retirement. I am serious in this. They were very committed to each other.

I do believe that a strong commitment is needed for good friendships. They take work and although not as much work as a life partner, they are not only beneficial but very needed for a healthy life. IMHO I have not one met a person that was happy in life that didn't have good friends.

[Lucky]

Adam Smith:

"I don't know if you would call this a "loophole," or instead fidelity to the contract: In my marriage, I ultimately concluded that the phrase "til death do us part" had in fact come to apply -- our relationship had died.

This was only after long application to repair and revive it -- more than half a decade of working together with a couples shrink, and other things. Was that decision exploiting a loophole, or something else?"

That's hard for anyone else to say. For me, the question would be one of conscience. If i could live with myself after I did this, then I probably did do everything humanly possible to save the situation. No one can ask for more. It's also possible for the other person to relieve you of any commitments made.

And I don't think anyone expects you to destroy your own health in order to keep a commitment made to another person.

[RA1]

My happiness depends upon me. -- Anon

Best regards,

RA1

[Lucky]

My happiness depends upon me. -- Anon

Best regards,

RA1

That's really not the question being discussed, but good for you.

[RA1]

Sure it is.

Best regards,

RA1

[Guest justme1369]

we have been together since I was 15 and he 14...we are in our ;late 20s now.

For us commitment and monogamy is the only way...it works for us and that's all that matters

[Lucky]

Congratulations on making your relationship work. For some, it just comes naturally, for thers, it takes a lot of work. Most of us think it is worth it in the long run.

As an aside, may I ask if you are practicing law now?

[Lucky]

Perhaps it's just my age. Remember when older people used to wonder about "kids, today?" "Things aren't the way they were when I was young?" Comments like that tend to indicate that perhaps a person isn't aging as well as he might want to.

Here's another sign of the times: bare feet on the airplane. I wouldn't want someone's barefeet on the armrest next to me. would you?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/travel/whose-feet-are-those-negotiating-air-travel-etiquette.html?src=dayp

[Guest justme1369]

LOL Lucky to the eternal shame of my family...no

[Lucky]

Well, I assume that is your choice, so good for you. It isn't all it's cracked up to be anyway.

[Guest hitoallusa]

Oh my that's so sweet.. Many many more happy years for you and your loved ones.~~~~

we have been together since I was 15 and he 14...we are in our ;late 20s now.

[wayout]

Congratulations on making your relationship work. For some, it just comes naturally, for thers, it takes a lot of work. Most of us think it is worth it in the long run.

As an aside, may I ask if you are practicing law now?

For some reason that I fail to fully understand in myself, I find commitments to be extremely hard work (for many, perhaps most of those that I have or have had). As I've "matured", I've learned to be very careful and selective in making commitments of any kind but I sometimes wonder how I ever got to be this way as I see others make and keep them so easily (or so it appears to me).

[Lucky]

That's an interesting reply, wayout. Thank you for sharing it. For me, if the commitment stems from love, then it is no burden or a minimal burden. I think the more you like the commitment itself, the easier it is to follow up. Is that not true for you? At work, my sense of responsibility had me keeping my commitments, but my sense of pride in my work was also a factor.

Gay men have proven their value on commitments once the AIDS crisis started, and frankly, we showed the world that our commitments to our partners and friends were easily as reliable as theirs. Granted, commitments come in many forms...

[wayout]

Yes, the more I like the thing, person or whatever it may be, the easier the commitment is to keep...however, for me, make no mistake that it still takes effort because there is a countervailing force to the whole concept of commitment. No matter how much I enjoy something, as soon as there is a commitment I struggle with the feeling of being constrained, even suffocated to some extent, by the lack of freedom and flexibility. That is probably the best way for me to describe my reaction to commitments.

For example, I really enjoy golf very much and is one of my passions in life. But as soon as I join and commit to a league that I play in every year, I really have to work to keep that commitment for playing even though I truly love the game. I enjoy more the impromptu round scheduled whenever the mood strikes me. If I did not love the game, I am sure I could not maintain the commitment to the league but it is always a struggle. A similar analogy can be made with relationships.

Not sure that really makes sense but hopefully gives a sense of how commitment makes me have to work at it and doesn't come naturally or easily for me.

[Lucky]

I can identify with that.