SW nose wheel incident at LGA

[RA1]

Probably few care but the captain of this flight was a gal. Gals have had a problem achieving upward mobility in aviation and have had to often be "better" than males. When they are not, they take hits.

All pilots are human and can make mistakes. However, sometimes those mistakes have unfortunate consequences for the passengers, the crew and the airline. This was a fairly minor example of such.

During my career I have heard many complaints about female pilots working their way upwards. Sometimes they are promoted with not as much merit to deserve that promotion. The US Navy pushed very hard to qualify a female pilot for carrier landings in fighter aircraft. She was obviously not ready and crashed into the stern of a carrier and killed herself. The radio communications just before the crash definitely indicated she had panicked.

Some FEDEX pilots I know and other airlines pilots have made complaints about female pilots and their aptitude and experience. I have personally heard remarks from female pilots that made me think I would not be a passenger in any aircraft they were flying. That also likely would be true of several male pilots I have known.

Like many in several professions, I have some negative feelings about the perseverance of new pilots and their attention to details as well as the requirements to succeed. Too much attention to the bottom line and not enough to being professional.

There is no doubt that gals are different and have different needs to succeed in aviation. Some of those needs are not presently being supplied or so I think.

Best regards,

RA1

[Guest zipperzone]

OK - I'll bite.

What was the topic of your post referring to? I and presumably other members have not heard of it.

[Lucky]

Referring to the female pilots as gals is likely to get you castrated. Or maybe just sent to sensitivity training.

[wayout]

I'm presuming RA1 is referring to this incident summarized in this article: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-10-02/news/sns-rt-us-southwest-pilot-20131002_1_nose-gear-front-landing-gear-laguardia-airport The article doesn't identify the pilot.

Here is another article with a video news report.showing the incident: http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/23/travel/southwest-laguardia/index.html

I have to admit, rather sheepishly, that whenever I see a female captain in the cockpit of the plane I am flying I get a bit more nervous than usual. Now I consider myself being very open minded and having very little prejudices, but somehow this is a real feeling (and I have to admit I was a bit surprised and embarrassed at myself for having that when it first happened). However, the feeling of nervousness I get is nothing compared to when I see a pilot who looks like he is just out of high school at the controls

[Guest hitoallusa]

Wayout, you haven't seen Niobe in The Matrix Revolutions? She was way better than any male pilot in the movie..

I don't mind whether a pilot is male or female as long as they are properly educated and certified pilots.

[wayout]

Thanks hi, someone gave me the whole series of Matrix movies years ago but I never watched them before. Now I definitely need to check it out....as a gay man, I can still say without much hesitation that she does look very hot

Now as far as women as pilots go, I understand and try to always focus on the belief that they are well trained/educated. However, I still have that feeling in my gut and I think it comes down to a belief (which may not be very defensible) that in a crisis situation men are better able to cope and handle things. That is certainly a generalization and plenty of danger as such but in some ways I feel it is almost biological.

[RA1]

I suppose gals is a Southernism for females which most here do not find offensive, at least not as offensive as "girls". Here, "darlin'" would likely be the highest insult without cussing.

The FAA is full of acronyms and abbreviations for many things and I used SW for Southwest and LGA, the identifier for LaGuardia Airport. Sorry.

I am perfectly willing for anyone to show me they can fly but during such an evaluation, I prefer to also be in the cockpit until I know whether they can or not. The airlines do not permit non-employees except for the FAA and certain others to ride in the cockpit so I, like most of you, have to trust the system. That is also true when I am flying in a cloud. I have to trust the controller will keep me away from other aircraft and vice versa.

Actually the best situation is to have one pilot be young with excellent reflexes and eyesight and the other more experienced, who has been there and done that. Over the last several years the airlines have come to embrace this idea although, with the seniority system, sometimes it is not possible and sometimes the roles are sort of reversed. In this case reversed roles means the Second in Command has a lot of experience on the particular model of aircraft or the route or both. Obviously, usually the Captain has more experience.

What I wrote above could likely apply to anyone who was promoted for some reason other than ability. Some barely pass their check rides and take multiple attempts to do so. But, like the bottom member of the class in medical school still being called doctor, the bottom of those who do pass the check ride is still called captain. There is no way for the traveling public to differentiate, so we are back at trusting the system.

Best regards,

RA1

[wayout]

RA1, I have a question for you that is somewhat related that I have often wondered about. Perhaps you have addressed this before. Do you believe that today's pilots are worse, same or better at flying aircraft than in the past (say 15 or so years ago vs today)? I wonder if the existence, perhaps even reliance, on technology has resulted in pilots being less proficient at actually being able to fly their aircrafts.

I suppose overall safety has improved with better aircraft, technology and training over the years. But on a fundamental level, what about actual flying skills is my real question. Or with all the training now, it isn't an issue.

[RA1]

When today's pilots are first hired, whether airline or general aviation, likely their "stick and rudder" skills are as good as they will ever be unless they take up a hobby of flying "simple or acrobatic" aircraft after hours. Two fairly recent examples of this are AF 441 and Asiana 214, both of which suffered from basic skill deficiencies.

The FAA and the airlines are looking into this and will no doubt "beef up" their re-current training to include more stick and rudder.

A few years ago, upsets were a big topic. Any aircraft is subject to an upset if caught in wake turbulence or other forms of atmospheric turbulent conditions. The larger the leading aircraft and/or the smaller the trailing aircraft and the closer they are to each other, the more likely an upset from wake turbulence. The 757 is one aircraft that has wake turbulence worse than its' size would indicate. Many years ago, the airlines included upset specific recovery training as part of their initial and re-current training. It seems to have worked. Off hand, I can think of only one incident in the last few years and that was the AA flight out of JFK that induced too much inappropriate rudder in dealing with wake turbulence. That did result in a fatal crash and also brought on increased training in the proper use of the rudder.

Technology has brought many safety improvements to aviation as well as ease of handling routine tasks. However, we human beings need to be the master and understand the limitations as well as the benefits. It isn't pretty when HAL takes over.

Best regards,

RA1

[wayout]

When today's pilots are first hired, whether airline or general aviation, likely their "stick and rudder" skills are as good as they will ever be unless they take up a hobby of flying "simple or acrobatic" aircraft after hours.

Brings to mind the situation with USAir 1549 where the Captain, Sully Sullenberger, was able to glide his powerless plane down safely on the Hudson. If I recall correctly, his hobby was piloting gliders and a perfect example where that came in handy and helped maintain exceptional "stick and rudder" skills.

[RA1]

AS the saying goes, "heroes are made, not born".

Best regards,

RA1

[BigK]

AS the saying goes, "heroes are made, not born".

Best regards,

RA1

I don't understand what you mean referencing this saying. Was Sully lucky or skilled in your opinion?

[RA1]

I think the saying means that heroes somehow prepare for that moment when their actions are needed. They may or may not know they are preparing.

To answer your question: Sully was both.

Best regards,

RA1

[AdamSmith]

Sully said it rather strikingly (from memory):

"Over the years I had made many deposits in the bank of experience, and fortunately when I needed to make a very large withdrawal, it was there."

[Guest hitoallusa]

Wow.. AS, you have surprised me again. What a beautiful statement and you kept it in your mind! Priceless..

Sully said it rather strikingly (from memory):

"Over the years I had made many deposits in the bank of experience, and fortunately when I needed to make a very large withdrawal, it was there."

[BigK]

I think the saying means that heroes somehow prepare for that moment when their actions are needed. They may or may not know they are preparing.

To answer your question: Sully was both.

Best regards,

RA1

Thanks for clarifying. That's what I was hoping you meant. I respect your opinion as a pilot and am glad the saying didn't mean you thought that he was just lucky. Both sounds just about right.

[mvan1]

Sully said it rather strikingly (from memory):

"Over the years I had made many deposits in the bank of experience, and fortunately when I needed to make a very large withdrawal, it was there."

Your memory is pretty good. Here is what he actually said which is very close to what your memory recalled:

"One way of looking at this might be that for 42 years, I've been making small, regular deposits in this bank of experience, education and training. And on January 15 the balance was sufficient so that I could make a very large withdrawal."

[AdamSmith]

Thank you! For looking it up.

Amazed I didn't mangle it too badly.

I must not be doing enough substances.