GB's "How to Obtain the Retirement Visa" article - Revised May 9

[Gaybutton]

Thailand requires a minimum income of 72,000 baht per month, as I recall. I could easily be wrong about that figure.

 

It turns out that I was wrong. Today a close friend, someone who would know, informed me the actual minimum is 66,000 baht per month.

[Guest fountainhall]

I am always curious as to the rationale behind the regulation that everyone, irrespective of whether they own or rent an apartment, has either Bt. 800K remitted to their bank annually or a monthly income of Bt. 66K. I am well aware that Thai logic often seems eccentric to westerners, but surely there must be some recognition that an owner could have less expenditure than a tenant. I wonder if anyone has tested this. Apologies if the question has been asked before.

[Gaybutton]

Apologies if the question has been asked before.

 

No need for apologies. I am not an owner, but I hold a 30-year prepaid lease on my house, which essentially is the same thing when taking monthly expenditures into consideration. Obviously, since my lease is prepaid, I don't have to worry about a monthly mortgage or rental payment. I don't think any of that is even taken into consideration.

 

I know some people who pay rent as low as 3500 baht per month and some people who pay over 100,000 baht per month. As far as the minimum monthly requirement is concerned, for visa purposes it doesn't matter. If you can show a proof-of-income statement with at least the 66,000 baht minimum, as far as Immigration is concerned that's fine no matter how much your monthly expenditures may be. How much you pay for mortgage or rent, or how much your other average monthly expenditures are, is not even asked.

[2lz2p]

I am always curious as to the rationale behind the regulation that everyone, irrespective of whether they own or rent an apartment, has either Bt. 800K remitted to their bank annually or a monthly income of Bt. 66K. I am well aware that Thai logic often seems eccentric to westerners, but surely there must be some recognition that an owner could have less expenditure than a tenant. I wonder if anyone has tested this. Apologies if the question has been asked before.

 

It appears that the Thai Government considers Baht 800K, monthly income of Baht 65K, or a combination of the two to be sufficient to live in Thailand without the need for work. As to the 65k vs. 66k monthly income, the 65k is shown by Pattaya Immigration - http://www.pattaya-immigration.org/visas.php?cat=other&menuOther=_Click&lang=EN

. If I recall correctly, I believe that Baht 65k is the required "salary" for foreigners working in the Kingdom with a work permit (amount varies depending on nationality, but I believe that is amount for Americans, Brits, and some other "first world" countries).

 

I guess one could argue about the rationale for the amount, but in my opinion any argument for or against is a moot point since this is the amount set by the Thai Government and I imagine any suggestions otherwise would probably fall on deaf ears. Also, who knows, if the Immigration folks should revisit the issue, they might just raise the amount.

 

Using a set amount in my opinion is logical as it simplifies the process as it is easier to administer from a bureaucratic standpoint.

[Gaybutton]

I really appreciate all these posts, questions, comments, corrections, etc. I use all these sorts of things when I do revision work and it's all an enormous help to me because it helps me to be more accurate and it also helps me to anticipate the kinds of questions and concerns people have, all of which will be addressed in the next revision, whenever that will be.

 

Please don't hesitate to ask questions or inform me of inaccuracies whenever they occur. My goal in this article is to try to make obtaining and renewing the retirement visa as easy as possible and to address concerns people have.

 

Since I deal only with the US embassy, any information you can provide about the embassy policies, prices, hours for service, required documents, etc, of your own home country will be included in the next revision. Also, if your embassy has consular service available in other cities, such as Barry Kenyon's service for the UK in Pattaya, please let me know. Barry is the only consul I know about anywhere in Thailand.

 

Speaking of Barry, I do not have his contact information. If you do, then please obtain his permission first, and if he grants it go ahead and post it so that people from the UK will know how to get in touch with him if the need arises.

[Guest fountainhall]

in my opinion any argument for or against is a moot point since this is the amount set by the Thai Government and I imagine any suggestions otherwise would probably fall on deaf ears

 

I do agree there has to be a simple rule. But as mortgages for foreigners are very difficult to obtain (at least they used to be) and many living here purchased apartments outright (or took very long term leases on houses, as in gaybutton's case), in theory their monthly outgoings on management fees and repairs should be somewhat less than a monthly rental. It's easy to prove ownership. Equally, anyone who has their own place is sitting on an asset which ought to be appreciating in value. To my way of thinking, this makes quite a difference which should be reflected in the amount needed to live. However, I accept the chance of this view being adopted is zero!

[Gaybutton]

To my way of thinking, this makes quite a difference which should be reflected in the amount needed to live. However, I accept the chance of this view being adopted is zero!

 

You know that to be true. I know that to be true. Probably everyone else also knows that to be true. What you say makes perfect sense and is absolutely logical. That's why I fully agree with your prediction that it will never happen . . .

 

[Guest fountainhall]

A good idea hits the dust - R.I.P!

[Guest Astrrro]

Is there any advantage to applying for re-entry permits when getting a retirement visa or can I wait a few months?

 

All else being equal, I prefer to wait, because I'm not sure if I'll need a single re-entry, multiple re-entry, or perhaps no re-entry if I can renew early.

[Gaybutton]

All else being equal, I prefer to wait, because I'm not sure if I'll need a single re-entry, multiple re-entry, or perhaps no re-entry if I can renew early.

 

In that case, then there is no advantage to applying for a reentry permit early. Getting a reentry permit only takes ten or fifteen minutes. All that's involved is filling out an application and paying a fee, so there's no reason to get one until you know what you'll need.

[Guest gwm4sian]

Delaying the application for a re-entry permit increases your risk of being caught short should something crop unexpectedly, such as an emergency trip overseas to visit an ailing relative, or even just popping over the border when in the north of Thailand. You can obtain a permit at BKK airport though.

 

Leaving the country without a re-entry permit is not a problem, it just invalidates your visa so you have to start the process all over again when you return.

[Gaybutton]

Today someone sent an Email to me, pointing out that I have an error in terminology within my article. What I have been calling a "visa on arrival" is actually a "visa exemption." I will make the correction in the next revision. In the meantime, the details are below.

 

Again, I sincerely appreciate it when people discover any errors in my article. I want it to be as accurate as I can make it, so if anyone else notices any errors, please continue letting me know.

 

Here are the details (which I took the liberty of copying and pasting directly from the gentleman's Email):

 

Visa Exemption

 

Conditions applying to persons wishing to enter Thailand under the "Visa Exemption Rule" are as follows:-

Passport holders of any of the 46 countries listed below are entitled to enter Thailand under the "Visa Exemption Rule" for a maximum period of 90 days in any 6-month period (see page 6/6) provided they meet all of the following criteria:-

a) Purpose of visit is strictly tourism.

B) Must be in possession of a confirmed flight ticket (e-ticket acceptable) to show they will be

exiting Thailand within 30 days of entry. Open tickets do not qualify. Traveling overland out of

Thailand to check-in for a flight from an airport in another country (Malaysia, Singapore, etc) is

not accepted.

c) Having access to living expenses of 20,000 baht (approx £300) per person or 40,000 baht

(approx £600) per family. It may be necessary to be able to prove this on entry.

List of countries which have special agreements with Thailand entitling their nationals to enter under the "Visa Exemption Rule" for a single stay of up to 30 days provided they can satisfy the conditions above:-

1. Argentina 2. Australia 3. Austria 4. Bahrain 5. Belgium

6. Brazil 7. Brunei 8. Canada 9. Chile 10. Denmark

11. Finland 12. France 13. Germany 14.Greece 15. Hong Kong

16. Iceland 17. Indonesia 18. Ireland 19. Israel 20. Italy

21. Japan 22. Kuwait 23. Laos 24. Luxembourg 25. Macao

26. Malaysia 27. Netherlands 28. New Zealand 29. Norway 30. Oman

31. Peru 32. Philippines 33. Portugal 34. Qatar 35. Russia

36. Singapore 37. South Africa 38. South Korea 39. Spain 40. Sweden

41. Switzerland 42. Turkey 43. United Arab Emirates 44. United Kingdom 45. United States

46. Vietnam

Please note that effective from 01 October 2006 a maximum of 90 days in Thailand are allowed within any 6-month period under the Visa Exemption Rule.

There is no visa fee applying to persons entering Thailand under the Visa Exemption Rule.

 

Visa On Arrival

 

Conditions applying to persons wishing to enter Thailand under the "Visa On Arrival Rule" are as follows:-

Passport holders of any of the 19 countries listed below can enter Thailand under the "Visa On Arrival Rule" provided they meet all of the following criteria:-

a) Purpose of visit is strictly tourism.

B) Must be in possession of a confirmed flight ticket (e-ticket acceptable) to show they will be exiting

Thailand within 15 days of entry. Open tickets do not qualify. Traveling overland out of Thailand to

join a flight from another country is not accepted.

c) Having access to living expenses of 20,000 baht (approx £300) per person or 40,000 baht (approx

£600) per family. It may be necessary to be able to prove this on entry.

List of countries which have special agreements with Thailand entitling their nationals to enter under the "Visa On Arrival

Rule" for a single stay of up to 15 days provided they can satisfy the conditions above:-

1. Bhutan 2. China 3. Cyprus 4. Czech Republic

5. Estonia 6. Hungary 7. India 8. Kazakstan

9. Latvia 10. Liechtenstein 11. Lithuania 12. Maldives

13. Mauritius 14. Oman 15. Poland 16. Saudi Arabia

17. Slovakia 18. Slovenia 19. Ukraine

The fee for this visa is 1,000 baht (approx £15), subject to change.

[Guest Astrrro]

I followed GB's instruction to the T and I now have my retirement visa. It went as smooth as Thai silk. You rock Gaybutton!

 

My visa is good until one year plus 90 days from when I entered the Kingdom, I suppose since I entered with a 90 day visa, so that was a nice surprise.

 

Btw, They only asked me for one pic.

 

The copy shop next to immigration is 5 baht per copy and they know exactly what needs to be copied so no need to get copies in advance as GB says.

 

[Gaybutton]

My visa is good until one year plus 90 days from when I entered the Kingdom, I suppose since I entered with a 90 day visa, so that was a nice surprise.

 

That is a very nice surprise. They never gave that to me, so apparently that is a more recent rule change.

 

Congratulations on your new visa. I would also suggest, now that you have it, getting a Thai driving license, even if you don't intend to drive.

[Gaybutton]

Just for the record, this morning I applied for my annual retirement visa renewal. I use the proof-of-income statement method. I was in and out of Immigration in ten minutes, with no problems at all.

[2lz2p]

Just for the record, this morning I applied for my annual retirement visa renewal. I use the proof-of-income statement method. I was in and out of Immigration in ten minutes, with no problems at all.

 

Ditto! I was there first thing this morning, but it was about 15 minutes as the Lady Captain was a little late getting in and set up. I also use the Embassy income letter. Only hindrance was wading in Soi 5 high water from the downpour this morning.

 

For those that might be interested in what was required--

1. TM-7, Application for Extension of Stay (one original)
2. One Photograph (obtained from shop next door)
3. Copies from passport - face page, all pages with last and previous visa stamps, & copy of last entry stamp.
4. Copy of TM card.
5. Original Embassy letter on income.
6. Original letter from Thai bank showing account information.
7. Copies from Bank Account pass book (face page, last page showing balance)

Note - any photocopies of documents (passport, bank passbook) must be signed by the applicant.

 

Usual process - the Sr. Sgt. Major reviewed all documents then sent me to the desk to pay the 1,900 Baht fee, return to the Lady Captain's desk where she completed a form transcribing information from the packet of documents (which I signed), and the usual question about whether I owned or rented my residence. Gave me my ticket for picking up the passport around 10am tomorrow.

 

For those that might be interested, my next address "reporting" date was supposed to be June 9th, but I had made a trip outside Thailand and returned on May 15th. The Lady Captain, "lined" through the June 9th date on my last reporting form and inserted a new reporting date, which was 90 days from my re-entry into Thailand.

 

 

 

[Gaybutton]

Note - any photocopies of documents (passport, bank passbook) must be signed by the applicant.

 

I believe, but am not certain, they want you to sign those photocopies in their presence, not in advance.

 

Ok, 2lz2p, we're 'go' for another year . . .

[Guest GaySacGuy]

The TM card that you refer to in your post...is that the Departure Card??

 

Also, what does the letter from the Thai Bank say??? I have no problem with all the rest of the documents, but the bank letter is a small problem, as I am in Ubon, and not sure the bank will know what to write!!!

[Gaybutton]

The TM card that you refer to in your post...is that the Departure Card??

 

Also, what does the letter from the Thai Bank say??? I have no problem with all the rest of the documents, but the bank letter is a small problem, as I am in Ubon, and not sure the bank will know what to write!!!

 

Yes, the TM card is the departure card that was stapled into your passport upon your arrival in Thailand.

 

I got my bank letter this week, and for the first time it actually occurred to me to ask what it says. The bank officer with whom I spoke speaks excellent English. He said the letter simply certifies that you do indeed have an account with that particular bank and it says how much money was in that account at the time you asked for the letter. He also said, and I agree, that it really doesn't make any difference how much or how little is in the account as long as you have an account at all (when using the proof-of-income method).

 

You have no need to worry that the bank won't understand what you want. All you have to do is say to a bank officer, "I need letter for Immigration." Believe me, the dinkiest little bank in the most remote corner of Thailand will know exactly what you need. I guarantee you won't be the first farang who has asked for it. It's a standard form. They don't sit there and write out a letter by hand, at least not at my bank. They crank up the computer, write the information on a bank-authorized template, and print it out.

 

The letter is not free. The banks charge for it, usually anywhere between 100 to 300 baht, depending on which bank you deal with. Since they charge for it, you can rest assured they know exactly what you want. Besides, there is only one kind of letter the banks are ever asked to write for Immigration, and that's the letter.

 

If you still feel that your bank may not understand what you want, then all you have to do is walk into your bank tomorrow and ask them for the letter for Immigration and see if they understand. They'll ask for your passbook and your passport, so make sure you have them both with you. You can either pay for the letter or you can tell them you don't need it now, but were just trying to make sure they understood what you want.

__________________

 

Added later:

 

As an afterthought, let's assume the worst case scenario, that being the bank doesn't have a clue as to what you need. If that happens (and it won't) then all you would have to do then would be to go to your local Immigration office, tell them the bank didn't understand, and have someone there write a note explaining the requirement to the bank. I suppose you could also have the bank representative call Immigration and ask, although I'm sure the bank probably has on file the Immigration requirements.

 

In short, the whole point of my long-winded response is to assure you there won't be any problem at all.

[Gaybutton]

I suppose, to reassure people, within the tenth post on this thread the person who wrote it said that you have to renew your retirement visa at least thirty days in advance of its expiration date.

 

That is not correct. I just renewed my own, a grand total of two days prior to the expiration date, with no problems or questions whatsoever.

 

In other words, there is no such requirement. Either the Immigration officer who told him that is clueless about their own rules or that particular office is making up their own rules.

 

You can renew your retirement visa on the very day it expires. I actually did that a couple years ago, only 40 minutes before the Pattaya Immigration office was to close for the day. Again, I had no problems at all and was asked no questions.

[2lz2p]

Yep, Gaybutton, we are good for another year. As to signing the photocopies, I have always done that in advance and they have never questioned it (since the photocopies are in black print, I use a blue ink pen to sign them so the signature stands out on the document(s)).

 

On renewing, I have always given myself from 2 to 4 weeks in advance, just in case of any hitches (although there never has been, but I'm the type of guy that pats his pockets a few times to make sure I have my room key before closing the hotel room door - just to be sure) At a recent Pattaya City Expats Club meeting, our honorary British Consul, in addition to saying we didn't need the debit/credit card copies anymore also said that you can renew up to 3 months early (I already knew this as a mutual acquaintance of ours did it that early last year). Also, the Consul said that for those using the 800K Baht in the bank, the 3 months on deposit was only for the first application - not renewals (at Pattaya Immigration Office - could be different elsewhere - as you said, the different Offices sometimes seem to set up their own rules).

 

I use Bangkok Bank and picked up the letter the day before renewing -- this year they did something different -- they listed the date and amount of my last 3 foreign transfers into the account (I figured they were taking it from my passbook as it is new and those were the only transfers in it -- I got the new one recently as my old passbook, after 5+ years, ran out of space). I thought, gee, are they going to be checking on the money transferred in? However, when the Immigration Sr. Sgt. Major looked over my documents, he didn't pay any attention to those amounts, only highlighting name, account number, and the balance in the account - these were also the only things he highlighted in my passbook photocopies.

 

[Gaybutton]

the Consul said that for those using the 800K Baht in the bank, the 3 months on deposit was only for the first application - not renewals (at Pattaya Immigration Office . . .)

 

Do I understand that correctly? Those using the 800,000 baht method only have to do that once and never again? What do they have to show when doing renewals other than the letter from the bank?

 

If that is the case, then I have learned something new. I thought you would have to have the 800,000 baht in the account for three months every year or change over to the proof-of-income statement method.

 

If that what the British Consul is saying, then I assume he is correct. Am I understanding you correctly?

[2lz2p]

Yes, per the British Honorary Consul, you still have to have 800,000 Baht in the bank for renewal, but Pattaya Immigration does not require it to be on deposit for a full 3 months as they do for the initial application. His comments were in response to my specific question to him at the Pattaya City Expat Club meeting - although I use the income letter, whether you have to have the 800K in bank 3 full months has been a subject of much discussion. So, I posed the question.

 

His response was that at present Sr. Sgt. Major (name) and Captain (name), are processing renewals without requiring 800K be shown as on deposit for at least 3 months. However, he did say that if the funds were deposited only a day or two before renewal, they might question it.

 

Whether this is the policy at other Immigration offices, e.g., Bangkok, I can not say.

[Gaybutton]

Yes, per the British Honorary Consul, you still have to have 800,000 Baht in the bank for renewal, but Pattaya Immigration does not require it to be on deposit for a full 3 months as they do for the initial application.

 

Ok, I think I understand now. If you are using the 800,000 baht method:

 

1. The first time you apply for the retirement visa, then the 800,000 baht must be in a Thai bank account a minimum of three months prior to the fist time the visa is applied for.

 

2. For retirement visa renewals, then 800,000 baht must be in a Thai bank account, but not necessarily for three months. The minimum time it must be in the account is questionable and there is no set, in-writing, policy about that, making it pretty much up to the immigration officer handling your application.

 

3. The "not necessarily three months" part applies only in Pattaya. Whether it applies in any other offices is as yet unknown to us.

 

Is that correct?

[Guest fountainhall]

The "not necessarily three months" part applies only in Pattaya. Whether it applies in any other offices is as yet unknown to u

 

Renewing in Bangkok last February, the officer paid close attention to the date of payment of the Bt. 800,000. I got the impression the 3 months is mandatory for renewals as well as the initial visa.