New Movie: Ender's Game - the controversy over the anti-gay author

[Guest hitoallusa]

Dustin Lance Black says

"There's so much good to be done right now. Boycotting a movie made by 99% lgbt equality folks in an lgbt equality industry is a waste of our collective energy. Making one phone call to a relative in the south who isn't quite there yet would be 1000 times more effective."

I think that is similar to what our NCBored has said in his post.

http://news.yahoo.com/screenwriter-behind-milk-thinks-still-see-enders-game-165529524.html

[Guest NCBored]

You weren't paying very close attention there. Please re-read what I wrote. I am not talking about Card at all. And I would encourage you not to characterize other's posts as absurd. You are on the edge of becoming a mean girl yourself.

You said:

Homophobia does not escape message boards devoted to gay topics such as this one. Many* are ashamed of who they are, afraid to reveal themselves to their families and friends. Some even defend homophobes in their posting here, not caring that if we give them money they will use it against us. It's called self-loathing, and it's sad that in this day and age gays still feel that way.

Given that it was posted on this thread, how can I interpret it otherwise than saying that 'defending' Card is a symptom of self-loathing?

Obviously I need clarification, if you meant something else.

[Lucky]

NC Bored: "Daring to say that homophobes have rights = self-loathing? That's both absurd and offensive."

Now you use a different quote to back up what you say. Do homophobes have rights? Of course they do.

Do some here not care that the homophobes they defend and give money to use that money against us?

Tome that's self-loathing and I don't see where you have caught me saying somethng different.

Your move. (I like your moves, so don't worry!)

[Guest josephga]

not really sure how I feel. Doubt I'll see the movie knowing how he feels Id sit there thinking about it and not really enjoy it. I don't think opposing gay marriage = hatting of gays. My mother doesn't believe in gay marriage and I've been guilty of eating her cooking. For those who want to see it. Why not watch the movie and then donate an equal amount(to the movie ticket to a pro gay association of your choice?.

[Guest NCBored]

NC Bored: "Daring to say that homophobes have rights = self-loathing? That's both absurd and offensive."

Now you use a different quote to back up what you say. Do homophobes have rights? Of course they do.

Do some here not care that the homophobes they defend and give money to use that money against us?

Tome that's self-loathing and I don't see where you have caught me saying somethng different.

Your move. (I like your moves, so don't worry!)

Lucky, the only quote of yours I've referenced is:

Homophobia does not escape message boards devoted to gay topics such as this one. Many* are ashamed of who they are, afraid to reveal themselves to their families and friends. Some even defend homophobes in their posting here, not caring that if we give them money they will use it against us. It's called self-loathing, and it's sad that in this day and age gays still feel that way.

To me, it implies that those who 'defend' people who are homophobes don't care that any money we 'give' them will be used against us and that is a sign of self-loathing.

Glad we agree that homophobes have some rights too.

But I think the whole 'going to see Card's movie is giving him money to use against us' is a bit suspect. It's not like buying brownies at a Westboro Church bake sale.- it's probably more like buying Treasury Bonds, knowing that not all of the money spent by the government is for things we approve of. Do we say that buying bonds will enable the government to kill more people in Afghanistan?

Thousands of people will likely reap some degree of financial benefit from Card's movie. And likely some of them are gay and some are pro-equality and some contribute to causes many of us would find worthwhile.

By the way - what do we know about Card's financial support of anti-gay causes? How much is he contributing and to whom?

[caeron]

I don't think agreeing to make a movie from his work constitutes an endorsement of any views/beliefs he holds that aren't present in the work.

I guess none of his books should ever have been published, by your logic. That's a slippery slope - no one should publish, support or patronize anything unless can give the owner or creator a moral stamp of approval?

Your statement sounds, to me, very much like 'guilt by association'.

Again,, I have no issue with your desire & right to boycott the movie and anything else created by Card, but I'm wary about making judgments & assumptions about everyone who doesn't make the same choices as you.

And yours sounds like rationalization to me.

I imagine if I made a movie with Fred Phelps and the Westboro baptist church, people here would think the less of me for it, and rightly so.

I don't see the difference.

Certainly the associated people aren't nearly as culpable as Card, but you're suggesting that because other people are involved that the whole project deserves a pass. I strongly disagree.

The old adage "lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" seems applicable to me. It is perfectly reasonable to judge people for the company they keep.

As for how much he gives, there is no way to know because our financial disclosure laws on this sort of thing are a joke.

[Lucky]

I don't get it, NC. I show you the two different quotes, yet in the alternate reality you live in there is only one. I give up.

But that Caeron, well, he's on the money!

[Guest NCBored]

And yours sounds like rationalization to me.

I imagine if I made a movie with Fred Phelps and the Westboro baptist church, people here would think the less of me for it, and rightly so.

I don't see the difference.

Certainly the associated people aren't nearly as culpable as Card, but you're suggesting that because other people are involved that the whole project deserves a pass. I strongly disagree.

The old adage "lie down with dogs, wake up with fleas" seems applicable to me. It is perfectly reasonable to judge people for the company they keep.

As for how much he gives, there is no way to know because our financial disclosure laws on this sort of thing are a joke.

I don't get it, NC. I show you the two different quotes, yet in the alternate reality you live in there is only one. I give up.

But that Caeron, well, he's on the money!

Obviously we're never going to agree here.

I still read Lucky's statement (which I quoted twice) as implying that those who would 'support' Card (by your definition) are self-loathing and I reject that.

But we seem to be at an impasse.

I will say that this discussion has raised my awareness of Card's homophobia.

[Guest EXPAT]

Ender’s Game Director Talks Gay Boycott. “I think [Card] wrote a great book, and the themes and ideas in the book, I think, are universal and timeless and applicable, and I hope the book will still be appreciated as a great work of art, even though I don’t agree with the author. I optioned the book, not an author, and I love what the author said in that book.”

[Guest hitoallusa]

So I'm reading the book ( I didn't pay for the book!) and it's an interesting read. I wonder what it will look like in the movie, though.

[Lucky]

The more I think of it, I realize that I do read novels whose authos have viewpoints I don't buy into. But I enjoy the novels. It's not a black and white choice.

[Guest hitoallusa]

I finished the book. It was an interesting book but not my kind of book. I love romance books where a hot guy do these sexy things that take my breath away and leaves my heart pounding after reading them. Not a single thing like that happens in the book. I am not sure why people get so excited about this book. A kid being manipulated and pushed into committing a genocide isn't so interesting. So whoever read this book what excited you about it? Like The Hunger Games, I think we are becoming like Roman spectators who entertained themselves watching people killing one another. Yikes.. For the movie, I don't think I will watch it not because I want to boycott Card but the movie doesn't simply interest me. But as usual I will read reviews and transcript of the movie once it comes out.

The postscript of the book was very interesting. Card thought the novel couldn't be put into a movie since he thought what Ender was thinking couldn't be expressed fully in a movie format. I think The Hunger Games proved him wrong.

[JKane]

The book is good, though it suffers from being familiar because it was an instant classic and many parts were copied into other things in the many years since it came out. Where the universe really gets interesting is the sequels, I really liked some of the ideas in them (the original ones, not talking about the 'Bean' moneygrab).

That Mormon asshole bigot can write.

[Guest EXPAT]

Speaking of movies, just how badly did Ender’s Game bomb?

[Guest hitoallusa]

Well I don't think it didn't do well because of the gay controversy. It didn't do well because the movie itself was not that appealing to the audience. Other similar movies that failed commercially were After Earth, Percy Jackson, Jack the Giant Slayer and etc.. The movie had some problems and I didn't get the promotion clip in which Harris Ford was giving a talk.. That clip made the movie look boring and unappealing to me... For Scott he stated in his book's after note that he doesn't think his book could be made into a movie because the character is so complicated that it would be difficult to depict what's going on in Ender's mind. So for Scott he didn't lose anything. And hopefully he learned his lesson not to attack on gays..

[AdamSmith]

Well I don't think it didn't do well because of the gay controversy.

...

So for Scott he didn't lose anything. And hopefully he learned his lesson not to attack on gays..

[Guest hitoallusa]

It's not illogical at all. Although he didn't lose anything financially, he got criticized publicly for his view on gay marriage. So I hope he learned his lesson from this experience. That's what I meant.

[caeron]

I think Card lost the opportunity to sell rights to his sequels. I'm happy with that.

It also served as a platform to educate a lot of people on what a jerk he is.