Guest hitoallusa Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Oh my my... I'm glad that he isn't gay. Otherwise his treatment there is not going to be that great. Isn't it irony that he fled to a country where its people long to come to the US for a better life. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/hongkong/10137249/Edward-Snowden-flies-to-Moscow.html Quote
Members RA1 Posted June 23, 2013 Members Posted June 23, 2013 The list of countries being considered might not be as "bad" as they appear at first glance. My choice would be Iceland partly because I have spent a lot of time there. However, with Chavez gone and the Castros about to be gone, both Cuba and Venezuela likely will be very different countries within Snowden's natural life span. Eucador should be fine now. Obviously what they all have in common is no extradition treaty with the US. Otherwise, they are very different from each other. Best regards, RA1 Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Looks as if Venezuela is Snowden's choice... Jon Williams ✔ @WilliamsJon #Russia's Interfax news agency reports Venezuelan diplomat picked Snowden up in a car on tarmac at Moscow airport. Whisked him away #NSA ... and it must tickle Putin for Russia to be helping to irritate the US by facilitating Snowden's passage. Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Bit more on Russia's possible role, from The Christian Science Monitor: ...Russian security expert Andrei Soldatov, who edits Agentura.ru, an online journal that focuses on the secret services, says that in addition to granting Snowden safe passage to Cuba on an Aeroflot jetliner, Russia may have played a deeper role in helping to arrange his flight. He suggests that the Kremlin's English-language satellite news network, RT, which enjoys very close relations with WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, could have used its offices to help Wikileaks hook up with Snowden in Hong Kong, "There are reports that Assange's assistant, Sarah Harrison, is flying on the same plane with Snowden," says Mr. Soldatov. "Involvement of RT would make sense, since RT has close cooperation with Assange, and he did a series of programs for them last year [Russia gives WikiLeaks' Julian Assange a TV platform]. The involvement of WikiLeaks requires no explanation. It wants to maintain itself as the key center for all disclosures of the kind that Snowden brought to the world," he adds. Soldatov says Russian assistance is also logical, for wider reasons than just an opportunity to stick it to Uncle Sam. "Russia and China have been involved in a so-far unsuccessful struggle to change the rules of the Internet, by taking control of it away from the US-based Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) and giving its functions to a wider, non-US-based entity," he says. "The Russians and Chinese have been posing, for these purposes, as big defenders of Internet freedom. This political context helps to explain RT's close relations with WikiLeaks as well.... So, it makes sense for them to help Snowden too. Russian authorities see an opportunity to present themselves as the new center of refuge for whistleblowers against US dominance in Cyberspace. It's a coup for them," he adds. http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2013/0623/Snowden-s-stealthy-exit-How-WikiLeaks-and-maybe-Russia-helped Quote
Members RA1 Posted June 23, 2013 Members Posted June 23, 2013 Russia and China "posing" just about says it all. Not that the official US is above same. Is "false confidence" better than no confidence at all? Right now I have less than zero confidence but then I never did have much more than zero. Best regards, RA1 Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Little bit more from The Guardian on possible destinations: Jonathan Watts, our Latin America correspondent, has been looking at the pros and cons of two possible refuges for Snowden: VenezuelaFOR: Good flight links between Caracas and Havana. Under Hugo Chávez, Venezuela led a growing number of South American nations that distanced themselves politically from the US, while remaining far more democratic than China or Cuba. Chávez's successor, Nicolás Maduro has maintained the anti-US rhetoric so is likely to be willing to embrace Snowden. Beautiful climate and great Caribbean beaches. AGAINST: Although a far lesser threat than China or Russia, Venezuela is seen by many in the US as a hostile nation that is under the influence of Cuba. Yet, it is also possible that – as a democracy – the country could get a pro-US leader at the next presidential election in 2018. Murder rates in Caracas are among the highest in the world so an assassination attempt might be disguised as just another street crime. Very expensive. EcuadorFOR: WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been granted refuge here, though he is currently still holed up in the Ecuador embassy in London. WikiLeaks claimed today that it is helping Snowden to secure asylum in "a democratic nation via a safe route". Although Ecuador is relatively small, it has strong regional allies and economic support from China, which strengthens its ability to resist extradition requests. It has democratic elections and President Rafael Correa is not afraid of standing up to the US and Europe. Quito is a stunning city in the mountains with great food, decent internet, reasonable prices and easy access to Pacific beaches and Amazon forest. AGAINST: In terms of media freedom, this is no Iceland. Correa has been heavily criticised for cracking down on private media groups, though there is still a diverse range of opinion on TV and in newspapers. A new presidential election must be held in four years, which could usher in a leader who is less willing to grant asylum to foreign whistleblowers. The altitude in Quito takes some getting used to. Updated 1h 33m ago 1h 60m ago Birgitta Jónsdóttir, an Icelandic MP and internet freedom activist, has written a handy guide on the obstacles facing Snowden if he opted to head for her country (which was mooted but now seems unlikely). Essentially, she warns, Snowden would not be safe unless the government granted him citizenship, as it did to the chess player Bobby Fischer when he faced US punishment for breaking a sporting embargo on the then-Yugosalvia. Seeking political asylum is a process that can take s long time, and there are no guarantees granted against extradition while the process is ongoing. However, since Snowden faces possible death sentence his case is stronger, for it is illegal to extradite a person who faces a death sentence from Iceland. It is important to note that Iceland has a terrible track record when it comes to granting political asylum to people seeking shelter, as it is hardly ever granted and thus a too dangerous path to be recommended for Snowden... It is important to note that there has not been any formal requests for asylum from Snowden to the Icelandic government and thus impossible for them to respond with affirmative answer until such a request has been received. http://www.guardian.co.uk/global/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow-live Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 23, 2013 Posted June 23, 2013 Agence France-Presse ✔ @AFP #BREAKING: Snowden has requested asylum in Ecuador: foreign minister 12:38 PM - 23 Jun 2013 ihpguy 1 Quote
Members RA1 Posted June 23, 2013 Members Posted June 23, 2013 This story will just be a series of "news breaks" until Snowden gets somewhere and makes a declaration. I am personally sorry that Iceland is not among the front runner but Ecuador seems a friendly harbor. Thanks for all the updates. Best regards, RA1 Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 If the stakes weren't so high for Snowden (and for all our freedoms, but what the hey) this would be classic farce. An AP reporter tweets: max seddon @maxseddon Standing next to Edward Snowden's seat on flight to Cuba. He ain't here. pic.twitter.com/NVRH3Pzved 6:07 AM - 24 Jun 2013 Guardian further notes: Ricardo Patiño Aroca, Ecuador’s foreign minister, is holding a press conference in 10 minutes time. Ricardo Patiño Aroca @RicardoPatinoEC @claudettewerden I will give a press conference at 7 pm. in Melia hotel, Hanoi. You are invited. 2:45 AM - 24 Jun 2013 He seems to be in Hanoi. Quote
Members wayout Posted June 24, 2013 Members Posted June 24, 2013 Where in the world is Edward Snowden? A new TV reality show in the making....... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozYg8vDTmkc ihpguy and lookin 2 Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted June 24, 2013 Posted June 24, 2013 Oh my I hope my Edward is ok.. I am so worried about him. He must be sad to be away from his loved ones and family. I hope her gf is coping with his sudden departure well. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Where is Edward? Does he have to negotiate with the Russians to get out of Russia? Are they forcing him to at least give some secret info in exchange for his departure? I don't think Russians won't let go of a chance like this to learn about US intelligence operations. I hope Edward is safe but not sure whether he can get out of Russia without giving them something in return. I think it's in the best interest of US government not to prosecute such a valuable asset and give him immunity so he comes back. It is a much better scenario than him spending the rest of his life in a foreign country where foreign spies will do everything get something out of him. Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 Where's Eddie? Can you spot the world's most wanted man? Speculation was rife yesterday that Snowden had left Hong Kong for Moscow on a plane … but when the plane landed in Russia he wasn't anywhere to be seen. Maybe he was still back in Hong Kong, cannily hiding himself among the crowds at a triathlon … If Snowden is en route to somewhere in South America – as was expected – then the opportunities for disguise are pretty good Joining forces with Pussy Riot in Moscow could be a bad option Here's the pic which the Independent ran yesterday, purportedly showing Snowden arriving in Moscow. For some reason they suggested he was the man at the centre of the frame, in red ... Too late for sycophancy? Pretty sure that won't work either http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery/2013/jun/24/wheres-edward-snowden-in-pictures#/?picture=411453984&index=6 wayout and ihpguy 2 Quote
Members ihpguy Posted June 25, 2013 Members Posted June 25, 2013 I am stupider than stupid. Just went to the YouTube link. Kick Me. Strangle Me. Or Whatever. For all of these years, I thought the name of the group was Rockafella and a play on the Rockefeller dynasty. My Badder Than Bad. Edward Snowden could do much worse than Ecuador. Lots of mountains and jungles to lie low in. And the cost of living is quite reasonable there. Quote
Members RA1 Posted June 25, 2013 Members Posted June 25, 2013 Where is Edward? Does he have to negotiate with the Russians to get out of Russia? Are they forcing him to at least give some secret info in exchange for his departure? I don't think Russians won't let go of a chance like this to learn about US intelligence operations. I hope Edward is safe but not sure whether he can get out of Russia without giving them something in return. I think it's in the best interest of US government not to prosecute such a valuable asset and give him immunity so he comes back. It is a much better scenario than him spending the rest of his life in a foreign country where foreign spies will do everything get something out of him. All the Russians have to do is read the Guardian. Otherwise the PR should be sufficient. Best regards, RA1 Quote
Members RA1 Posted June 25, 2013 Members Posted June 25, 2013 I am stupider than stupid. Just went to the YouTube link. Kick Me. Strangle Me. Or Whatever. For all of these years, I thought the name of the group was Rockafella and a play on the Rockefeller dynasty. My Badder Than Bad. Edward Snowden could do much worse than Ecuador. Lots of mountains and jungles to lie low in. And the cost of living is quite reasonable there. I like Ecuador but have never been there but they do not have extradition with the US. (Not my reason for liking Ecuador.) Diplomacy does not happen overnight (unless at the tip of a sword). So, the chance for Ecuador and Snowden to continue in the spot light for a few more days will not be ignored. Best regards, RA1 Quote
Members wayout Posted June 25, 2013 Members Posted June 25, 2013 The latest as of a half hour ago from CNN, on the whereabouts of Snowden NSA leaker Edward Snowden is in the transit zone at the international airport in Moscow, Russian President Vladimir Putin says. "He is a transit passenger in the transit zone and is still there now," Putin said. "Mr. Snowden is a free man. The sooner he selects his final destination point, the better both for us and for himself." Putin said Snowden's arrival in Russia was "completely unexpected." Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 I'm not sure whether it is true that his arrival in Russia was completely unexpected. There is no way a high profile person like Edward would go to Russia without discussing it with some officials there first. Anyways, I think this will make a good movie. Hope it ends in a happy ending. I want someone cute to play Edward's role... Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 25, 2013 Posted June 25, 2013 I rather love the rest of Putin's remarks as quoted by The Guardian: “Assange and Snowden consider themselves human rights activists and say they’re fighting for the spread of information,” Putin said. “Ask yourself this: should you hand these people over so they’ll be put in prison?” “In any case, I’d rather not deal with such questions, because anyway it’s like shearing a pig – lots of screams but little wool." Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 What is Putin up to? Why Snowden is still stuck in an airport in Moscow? I can't believe Edward thinks that he will be safe in Russia. Anyways, hope he makes safely out of there. Quote
Members wayout Posted June 26, 2013 Members Posted June 26, 2013 Putin is a pretty savvy politician and is playing both sides of the fence so to speak. He is avoiding, somewhat, confrontation with the US while not being seen to really be against what Snowden has done. I would bet that behind the scenes in the airport that Snowden is being treated as a VIP by the Russians and is being interrogated (perhaps not overtly though) Quote
Members RA1 Posted June 26, 2013 Members Posted June 26, 2013 As mentioned before, diplomacy takes time and no doubt Ecuador (or any place) wishes to gauge public opinion, local and worldwide, as well as other factors before committing to any course of action. Many international "hubs" have transit lounges or areas where connecting travelers can wait for their next flight without going through the complete customs experience (if any). However, I have heard that Moscow has a 24 hour rule for this sort of thing but rules are made to be broken, no? Best regards, RA1 Quote
AdamSmith Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Indeed. And as for Russia hungering for Snowden's laptops, one Guardian commentator makes the case that Moscow already knows full well most of what's on them, having its own versions of the technological infrastructures for digital spying and the resultant data. I buy this argument that Putin's main thing right now is just the opportunity to, as Schumer, this article and others have said, stick a finger in our eye. Quote
Guest hitoallusa Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 How is Edward supporting himself in a foreign country without a single friend or family to talk to. I feel sorry for this guy. He must be lonely. I'm not sure whether his bank cards are working in Russia. What happened to that Wikileak person who accompanied him to Moscow? Is she at least providing a bed for him to sleep in? I would rather come back to the US rather than being in the hands of Russians. I hope he comes back and face the consequences. Who knows after a couple of years, a new president might pardon him. It's better than spending rest of his life hiding in a foreign country. Everybody wants a piece of him and exploits him until he is no more useful to them. Quote
