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Pope Francis: Atheists can be good

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One could come around to liking this pope despite oneself...

Pope Francis says atheists can be good

Just do good, and we'll find a meeting point, says Francis in marked departure from Benedict's line on non-Catholics

Pope-Francis-008.jpg

Pope Francis at his general audience in St Peter's Square at the Vatican. Photograph: Alessandra Benedetti/Alessandra Benedetti/Corbis

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis has said in his latest urging that people of all religions, and none, work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning mass at his residence, a daily event at which he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good, and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical reply to the hypothetical comment: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is in marked contrast to the attitude of his predecessor, Benedict, who sometimes prompted complaints from non-Catholics that he seemed to see them as second-class believers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/22/pope-francis-atheists-can-be-good?guni=Network%20front:network-front%20main-3%20Main%20trailblock:Network%20front%20-%20main%20trailblock:Position13

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Guest hitoallusa

I think Francis is right... Maybe he agrees with me in that everybody gets saved in the end but not sure that is what he believes. I don't know many things( hush AS, I think you might say I don't know anything ^_^) and don't have answers to many questions concerning God. The problem is that some people act like they have answers and force their answers on others. I prefer fear of not knowing to pretending to know something you actually don't.

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Why wouldn't you like this Pope? You might not agree with his official positions but he seems very much less strait laced than any in memory and very personable. There was a saying when I was growing up that said, I like Ike, hell, I even miss Harry. I like BO but that doesn't mean I agree with some of his official positions.

Best regards,

RA1

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Guest hitoallusa

RA1, I thought you were still active and flying planes? If you were a young kid when Harry and Ike were serving as president. Hmm how do you say for fit and active? Is it because of your low salt diet?

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Guest CharliePS

RA1, I thought you were still active and flying planes? If you were a young kid when Harry and Ike were serving as president. Hmm how do you say for fit and active? Is it because of your low salt diet?

Why, I was a college student when Ike was in the White House, and I'm not old (...err, am I?)
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Why wouldn't you like this Pope? You might not agree with his official positions but he seems very much less strait laced than any in memory and very personable. There was a saying when I was growing up that said, I like Ike, hell, I even miss Harry. I like BO but that doesn't mean I agree with some of his official positions.

That was what I meant. ^_^

Of what he is, he seems thus far much the best example we could have hoped for.

...Has he in practice already convened Vatican III, without even saying so?

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This pope is different, in many ways, and much of it comes from being a Jesuit (Society of Jesus). An interesting article I read mentioned the following:

"With their emphasis on missions work and intellectual pursuits, Jesuits often work on the margins of the church, sometimes overstepping boundaries set by Rome. It’s a point of pride among some Jesuits that they frequently challenge authority and seem to have a predisposition for coloring outside the lines." http://www.pcusa.org/news/2013/3/20/why-first-jesuit-pope-big-deal/

I hope Pope Francis does his best to "color outside the line" moving forward to help bring the Church into the 21st century, or at least the 20th ^_^

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It is interesting to compare styles of Pope Francis with Pope Benedict, much of it provides some insight into differences in substance as well:

431831_10151580243983903_1872471253_n.jp

1. Changed the golden throne to a wooden chair ...something more appropriate for the son of a carpenter.
2. Did not want the gold-embroidered red stole, heir of the Roman Empire, nor the red cape...
3. Uses same old black shoes, not the classic red.
4. Uses a metal cross, not of rubies and diamonds.
5. His papal ring is silver, not gold.
6. Uses the same black pants under the cassock, to remember that he is just another priest.

7. Removed the red carpet ...He is not interested in fame and applause

pope-attire-2013-afp-photo_1363680589061

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Little bit better article on this from HuffPo:

Pope Francis Says Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed, Not Just Catholics

Posted: 05/22/2013 2:25 pm EDT | Updated: 05/23/2013 2:33 am EDT

Pope Francis rocked some religious and atheist minds today when he declared that everyone was redeemed through Jesus, including atheists.

During his homily at Wednesday Mass in Rome, Francis emphasized the importance of "doing good" as a principle that unites all humanity, and a "culture of encounter" to support peace.

Using scripture from the Gospel of Mark, Francis explained how upset Jesus' disciples were that someone outside their group was doing good, according to a report from Vatican Radio.

“They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

Pope Francis went further in his sermon to say:

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. ‘But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.’ Yes, he can... "The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone!".. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good: we will meet one another there.”

Responding to the leader of the Roman Catholic church's homily, Father James Martin, S.J. wrote in an email to The Huffington Post:

"Pope Francis is saying, more clearly than ever before, that Christ offered himself as a sacrifice for everyone. That's always been a Christian belief. You can find St. Paul saying in the First Letter to Timothy that Jesus gave himself as a "ransom for all." But rarely do you hear it said by Catholics so forcefully, and with such evident joy. And in this era of religious controversies, it's a timely reminder that God cannot be confined to our narrow categories."

Of course, not all Christians believe that those who don't believe will be redeemed, and the Pope's words may spark memories of the deep divisions from the Protestant reformation over the belief in redemption through grace versus redemption through works.

The pope's comment has also struck a chord on Reddit, where it is the second most-shared piece.

More from Reuters:

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis said on Wednesday in his latest urging that people of all religions - or no religion - work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning Mass in his residence, a daily event where he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical conversation in which someone told a priest: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is a marked contrast to the attitude of former Pope Benedict, who sometimes left non-Catholics feeling that he saw them as second-class believers.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/22/pope-francis-good-atheists_n_3320757.html?utm_hp_ref=religion

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Another article, unrelated except likewise illustrative of who and what the man is, including again his fierce Jesuitical honesty...

Pope Francis Insists Church Must Help Poor, Not 'Speak Of Theology'

Reuters | Posted: 05/18/2013 5:14 pm EDT

By Philip Pullella

VATICAN CITY, May 18 (Reuters) - Pope Francis shared personal moments with 200,000 people on Saturday, telling them he sometimes nods off while praying at the end of a long day and that it "breaks my heart" that the death of a homeless person is not news.

Francis, who has made straight talk and simplicity a hallmark of his papacy, made his unscripted comments in answers to questions by four people at a huge international gathering of Catholic associations in St. Peter's Square.

But he outdid himself in passionately discussing everything from the memory of his grandmother to his decision to become a priest, from political corruption to his worries about a Church that too often closes in on itself instead of looking outward.

"If we step outside of ourselves, we will find poverty," he said, repeating his call for Catholics to do more to seek out those on the fringes of society who need help the most," he said from the steps of St. Peter's Basilica

"Today, and it breaks my heart to say it, finding a homeless person who has died of cold, is not news. Today, the news is scandals, that is news, but the many children who don't have food - that's not news. This is grave. We can't rest easy while things are this way."

The crowd, most of whom are already involved in charity work, interrupted him often with applause.

"We cannot become starched Christians, too polite, who speak of theology calmly over tea. We have to become courageous Christians and seek out those (who need help most)," he said.

To laughter from the crowd, he described how he prays each day before an altar before going to bed.

"Sometimes I doze off, the fatigue of the day makes you fall asleep, but he (God) understands," he said.


CRISIS OF VALUES

Francis, the former Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, said the world was going through not just an economic crisis but a crisis of values.

"This is happening today. If investments in banks fall, it is a tragedy and people say 'what are we going to do?' but if people die of hunger, have nothing to eat or suffer from poor health, that's nothing. This is our crisis today. A Church that is poor and for the poor has to fight this mentality," he said.

Many in the crowd planned to stay in the square overnight to pray and prepare for Francis' Mass on Sunday, when the Catholic Church marks Pentecost, the day it teaches that the Holy Spirit descended upon the apostles.

On Saturday morning, Francis met German Chancellor Angela Merkel and discussed Europe's economic crisis.

Apparently responding to his criticism of a heartless "dictatorship of the economy" earlier in the week, Merkel, who is up for re-election in September, later called for stronger regulation of financial markets.

On Thursday, Francis appealed in a speech for world financial reform, saying the global economic crisis had made life worse for millions in rich and poor countries. (Editing by Robin Pomeroy)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/18/pope-church-must-help-the-poor_n_3299764.html?utm_hp_ref=pope-francis

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Guest hitoallusa

Yes you are not old... ^_^ You enjoy playing tennis and have great time with your and Lucky's dog...^_^ I want my retirement will be like yours. ^_^

Why, I was a college student when Ike was in the White House, and I'm not old (...err, am I?)

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I'm not a fan of the office or institution, but this seems to be the best, most progressive man in the chair in my lifetime, at least since John Paul ONE. Hopefully this one doesn't suffer the same fate!

One can't help but wonder if he chose to remain sleeping and eating in the guesthouse out among other priests partly for just that reason.

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Guest Allessio77

the Vatican backed off today.....they claimed he said that Atheists could do good, not that Atheists will be saved.

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Francis continues working to tighten his noose around the Church's neck.

Pope Francis Appoints Panel to Watch Bank

By GAIA PIANIGIANI

Published: June 26, 2013

The New York Times

In another move to clean up the troubled Vatican Bank, Pope Francis on Wednesday appointed a commission of inquiry that will report directly to him about the bank’s activities. Known for its secrecy, the bank has been under mounting pressure in recent years to meet European transparency and anti-money laundering norms. The committee is authorized to gather documents, data and information about the bank with the “prompt collaboration” of the bank’s staff and that of other Vatican departments. The committee’s members include four Vatican officials, including Monsignor Peter Wells, and one noncleric: Mary Ann Glendon, a professor at Harvard Law School and a former United States ambassador to the Holy See. This month, Francis named a trusted monsignor as interim prelate of the bank.

In bold move, Pope names commission to reform Vatican bank

By Philip Pullella, Reuters

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Pope Francis set up a special commission of inquiry on Wednesday to reform the Vatican bank, his boldest move yet to get to grips with an institution that has embarrassed the Catholic Church for decades.

The high-powered, five-member panel, which includes four prelates and a female Harvard law professor, will report directly to him, bypassing the Vatican bureaucracy that itself has sometimes been hit by allegations of scandal and corruption.

The Institute for Works of Religion (IOR), as the bank is formally known, has long been tarnished by accusations that it has failed to meet international transparency standards intended to combat money laundering and tax evasion.

The Vatican said the commission, which Francis set up with a personal decree known as a "chirografo," would enable him "to know better the juridical position and the activities of the Institute to allow an improved harmonization with the mission of the universal Church".

It said the commission would have full powers to obtain all documentation and data necessary and bypass usual rules that oblige officials to respect the secrecy of their office.

The decree ordered the commission to give its conclusions and all supporting documents directly to him.

The bank, founded in 1942, will continue to be run by current administrators and be overseen by existing regulators while the commission carries out its task.

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said the bank was not being put under "special administration" but that the commission would have ample powers.

The announcement of the new commission came as Vatican sources confirmed media reports that Italian magistrates were investigating Monsignor Nunzio Scarano, an accountant in another Vatican department that deals with financial administration, on suspicion of money laundering.

Vatican sources told Reuters in April the pope, who has said he wants the Church to be a model of austerity and honesty, could decide to radically restructure the bank or even close it.

ACCOUNTS UNDER REVIEW

Francis has laid great emphasis on removing an image of privilege from Church operations, and IOR's new president Ernst von Freyberg, a German, has begun a review of all its accounts and activities.

The commission is made up of Italian Cardinal Raffaele Farina, French Cardinal Jean-Louis Tauran, Spanish Bishop Juan Ignacio Arrieta Ochoa de Cinchetru, American Monsignor Peter Wells and Mary Ann Glendon, a Harvard professor who is president of the Vatican's Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences and a former U.S. ambassador to the Vatican.

The papal decree says bank employees as well as staff in other Vatican departments had to cooperate with the commission.

The European anti-money laundering committee, Moneyval, said in a July report that the IOR still had to enact more reforms in order to meet international standards against money laundering.

The Vatican is due to give Moneyval a progress report this year.

Von Freyberg, 54, a German lawyer, told Reuters in an interview this month he was committed to total transparency and has started a review of the IOR's some 19,000 accounts, mostly held by Vatican employees and departments, orders of priests and nuns, and charities.

On Wednesday, he declined to comment on the Pope's decision to set up the commission.

The bank has assets of $7.1 billion under management and profits of 86.6 million euros ($114.3 million), used to support Catholic activities around the world. It does not lend money.

Last year, the Vatican detected six possible attempts to use the Holy See to launder money. At least seven have been detected so far this year.

The bank is trying to clean up its image after a history of scandals, most notably in 1982 when it was enmeshed in the bankruptcy of Italy's Banco Ambrosiano, whose chairman Roberto Calvi was found hanging from London's Blackfriars Bridge.

In 2010, Rome magistrates investigating money laundering froze 23 million euros ($33 million) held by the IOR in an Italian bank. The IOR said it was transferring its own funds between accounts in Italy and Germany. The money was released in June 2011 but the investigation continues.

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-sets-special-review-vatican-bank-110039523.html

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Mary's Meals founder meets Pope Francis

The founder of Mary's Meals – the charity set up to help feed the poorest children in the world – has travelled to the Vatican at the invitation of Pope Francis.

marys-meals-pope_2601050b.jpg
Magnus MacFarlane-Barrow presents Pope Francis with the blue Mary’s Meals mug Photo: fotografiafelici.com

7:39PM BST 26 Jun 2013

The Telegraph

Magnus MacFarlane-Barrow, who set up the organisation in 2002, was invited to Rome after the Pope heard about his work within the Catholic community.

His charity, which was one of the organisations previously supported by The Telegraph's Christmas Appeal, provides food for 750,000 children every school day.

Mr MacFarlane-Barrow said: "It was a huge privilege and blessing to meet the Holy Father today and represent everyone involved in the mission of Mary's Meals.

"I presented Pope Francis with the blue Mary's Meals mug and let him know we are now reaching over three quarters of a million children every school day – many of them having escaped the rubbish dumps where they used to scavenge for their next meal, or the fields where they worked. He gave us a blessing, which we were very grateful for."

Pope Francis held a general audience in St Peter's Square on Wednesday morning, before meeting Mr MacFarlane-Barrow and his wife.

The Scotsman was inspired to start the charity by a visit to Malawi during the 2002 famine, where he met a 14-year-old boy, Edward, who told him: "I want to have enough food to eat and to go to school one day".

Mary's Meals began by feeding 200 children in a school in Malawi, and now provides daily sustenance for children in schools in Africa, Latin America, Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Caribbean.

Pope Francis has made championing the poor a key pillar of his papacy.

Earlier this year he said: "Poverty in the world is a scandal. In a world where there is so much wealth, so many resources to feed everyone, it is unfathomable that there are so many hungry children, that there are so many children without an education, so many poor persons.

"We all have to think if we can become a little poorer, all of us have to do this."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10144309/Marys-Meals-founder-meets-Pope-Francis.html

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Pope's Reform Path: Francis Shakes Up Church Establishment

By Hans-Jürgen Schlamp in Rome, SPIEGEL
July 6, 2013

It appears Pope Francis truly wants to change the Catholic Church. He's reforming the Vatican Bank first, but he's also circumventing the old guard wherever he can. The establishment is up in arms.

A cardinal in Rome earns about ?3,000 ($3,888) a month, even less than a pastor in Germany. But a cardinal's life in Rome is a lot more expensive -- with visits to restaurants and shopping at boutiques for the upscale clothing men of the church are expected to wear, not to mention their jewelry and the antiques they display in their apartments. So it's good to have friends who can treat you or otherwise provide support now and then.

Friends are also happy to give a cardinal a hand -- and not just out of religious considerations. A cardinal can be helpful in both political and business terms. So it's not surprising that a symbiotic relationship between parts of the Curia and the upper class around the world has formed -- one that brings together the establishment, luxury and power. It's a nice little tradition that new Pope Francis would like to put an end to. For the Catholic establishment, though, it is nothing less than a catastrophe.

A 'Sick' Church of 'Theological Narcissism'

Even before his enthronement as pope, when he was still a cardinal, Jorge Mario Bergoglio had spoken clearly about this. During his speech to the cardinal conclave, he warned that, "When the church does not emerge from itself to evangalize, it becomes self-referential and therefore becomes sick." He warned of "self-referentiality" and "theological narcissism." He also criticized a "mundane church that lives within itself, of itself and for itself." And it appears the Argentinian pope meant this criticism seriously. In fact, he demonstrates that every day.

Instead of wearing a gold cross, he has one of steel. And he lives in a sparsely furnished apartment in the Santa Marta guest house rather than in the Apostolic Palace. Instead of taking his seat in the Vatican concert hall to listen to classical music, he recently remained at his desk working on the final version of his decree for the church-state's own Institute for Religious Works (IOR) bank. With his signature, he created a powerful special papal commission to review the bank's activities. He also said the new commission must change everything at the Vatican Bank, as it is also known. He said the Vatican certainly needed a bank, but its areas of business should only reach a "certain point."

A Papal Bank with Mafia Contacts

For decades now, the IOR has been in the headlines for one scandal after the other. At the beginning of the 1980s, it was at the center of one of the darkest crime thrillers in postwar Italian history. The scandal surrounded billions in business with the mafia, and a Vatican banker was hanged from a London bridge by a killer commando.

But the chain of scandals never let up. When, in autumn 2010, fresh suspicions of money laundering to the tune of triple-digit millions emerged, then Pope Benedict XVI promised stricter rules for his financial managers. In fact, though, nothing changed. In the so-called Vatileaks scandal, secret documents that had been smuggled out of the Vatican shed light on bizarre intrigues inside the papal state. Often, the Vatican Bank played a role in those intrigues. Benedict XVI was appalled, but also overwhelmed. He failed to prevail over the powerful cardinals who backed the IOR. His resignation was the logical outcome.

German Baron Takes Helm of Bank

His successor is taking more decisive action. First, he fired Nunzio Scarano, the top accountant in the Vatican office that oversees Vatican property and investments, after he was accused of money laundering and corruption and arrested. Then, practically overnight, he forced out IOR Director Paulo Cipriani and his deputy. Now the bank will be led by Ernst von Freyberg, a German baron and former consultant, member of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta and the president of the IOR supervisory board since mid-February.

Between now and October, Pope Francis wants to ensure clarity and also determine how the financial institute will handle its duties in harmony with the "church's mission" in the future. A that point, a new structure will be created for the bank and a new boss will be appointed.

"Did we actually vote for someone who really believes in what he preaches?" some within the Curia are now whispering. Once again, Francis has taken them fully by surprise. In an almost demonstrative manner, he has been excluding the Vatican apparatus in every way he can. Most recently, this happened with the trip the pope announced he would take on Monday to the island of Lampedusa in southern Italy. Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, the Vatican secretary of state, first learned of the planned trip through a papal press release. And instead of the kind of months of advance-team work used by heads of the Catholic Church for trips in the past, Francis has dispensed with that. Instead, the eccentric Argentinian pope ordered his staff to prepare a plane so that he could fly there in the morning and be back by midday.

Thousands of refugees have arrived at Lamedusa each year in desperation after making the journey across the Mediterranean from North Africa in small, dangerous boats. Francis wants to pray together with them and also throw a wreath into the sea to commemorate those who have lost their lives trying to make it to Europe. The pope has announced that he doesn't want to meet with the mayor or other authorities. He also also ordered church officials to stay away.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/popes-reform-path-francis-shakes-church-establishment/story?id=19573297&page=2#.Udg-u212mTo

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Apparently Pope Francis has more power than a US President but likely that was always so. Carter, among others, tried to "reform" the bureaucracy and failed. I hope Francis has better luck.

Best regards,

RA1

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Pope Francis criticizes indifference toward immigrants' plight

By Tom Kington

LA Times

July 8, 2013, 10:06 a.m.

ROME -- Against a backdrop of growing anti-immigration sentiment in Europe, Pope Francis on Monday used his first papal trip outside the Vatican to denounce the "globalization of indifference" to migrants, calling their suffering "a painful thorn in my heart."

The pontiff traveled to the tiny Italian island of Lampedusa to drop a wreath of flowers into the Mediterranean in mourning for the thousands of migrants and asylum seekers who have drowned while sailing from Africa to Europe in search of a better life.

"We have become used to the suffering of others," said Francis, who made the surprise decision to visit Lampedusa after reading about the recent sinking of a boat that resulted in the deaths of a dozen migrants.

"Has any one of us wept for these persons who were on the boat? For the young mothers carrying their babies? For these men who were looking for a means of supporting their families?" he asked. "We are a society which has forgotten how to weep, how to experience compassion."

Addressing Muslims on the island, the pope said that "the church is with you in the search for a more dignified life for you and your families."

Francis' fiercely worded homily, delivered before a crowd of 10,000 people, highlighted his focus on the plight of the poor and marginalized.

Just 70 miles off the coast of Tunisia, Lampedusa is a favored landing point in Europe for African migrants, who travel on rickety fishing boats that often run out of fuel or sink in rough weather. About 8,400 migrants landed in Italy and the nearby island of Malta in the first half of this year, up from 4,500 in the same period last year, but down from the many thousands who headed for Lampedusa during the political upheaval of the Arab Spring in 2011.

More than 6,000 people are believed to have drowned in the waters around Lampedusa between 1994 and 2012. The United Nations recorded 500 deaths of migrants attempting to cross the Mediterranean during 2012.

Hostility toward immigrants is on the rise in Europe as the region contends with a stubborn economic recession. Countries such as Britain are trying to tighten restrictions on newcomers; anti-immigrant political parties, some on the far right, have become potent forces in France, Greece, the Netherlands and Scandinavia. In 2009, Italy struck a deal with Libya's then-ruler, Moammar Kadafi, to send back migrants intercepted at sea without hearing claims for asylum.

Pope Francis, whose own forebears migrated from Italy to Argentina, was accompanied by a flotilla of local fishing boats as he sailed into Lampedusa's harbor after dropping a wreath of yellow and white flowers from an Italian coast guard vessel.

The pope celebrated Mass on a sports field near where the wrecks of migrants' vessels have been piled up. He used an altar fashioned from a small boat and a lectern made from the helm of one of the vessels. His staff and chalice were also made from piece of wood taken from the wrecks.

The pope met a group of migrants and thanked locals for their kind treatment of new arrivals.

After his visit, he tweeted: "God will judge us on the basis of how we have treated the most needy."

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-pope-immigration-20130708,0,4473843.story

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