Porto Alegre/Rio March 2013

[TotallyOz]

Fabulous Photos Tomcal. You do have a knack with images. Thank you for sharing these. I loved the one with the 2 big dick twinks. And, having met him in person last night, he was adorable.

[flipao]

thank you for the new pictures!

[Guest tomcal]

today, I left my overnight guest at the apartment and headed to pick up Oz to go to 117 tonight. Tuesday is their big night, we got ther at 5:00 and I knew a few of the boys that were there, I eventually went up with Diego, first pic below who I have known a long time, the three way I had planned fell apart due to one of the boys not showing, so I decided to go to Pointe 202, at first I thought his was a big mistake as it was nearly empty, maybe 12 boys and 5 customers, Oz left to go back to 117 but I decided to tough it out and it turned out to be a good idea! I ran into a twink I had known previously and he introduced me to a friend of his that when I first looked at him I thought he was jake gyllenhaal Oz had already left and I was about to, but they talked me into a 3 way and it was amazing, everyone was doing everything to everybody! I got back to the apartment and my sleepover boy had made dinner! I love Brazil!

[Guest tomcal]

I have a hour before i have to leave to get Oz and make our way to Meo Mundo and 117 tonight so thought I would take this time to answer some questions I got in private messages.

What do I pay the guys?

I hesitate to put numbers on this because in the past either some have said "you are lying" or exagerrating or making it up.. it really depends on how good a negotiater you are, how badly the guy needs work, what kind and numbers of competition he's got that night at the sauna, etc. Saying that I have never ever paid over $100.R(roughly $50. U.S.) for an hour at a sauna, same goes if they are coming for a afternoon appt, then I add in some extra for the time and metro ride, usually $20.R. but typically it ranges between $80 and $100. R at the sauna. Also being a regular down here and knowing alot of the guys they tend never to dispute the amount I give. if it is a 3 or 4 way there is no differece in Pricing, all get the same amount each.

Overnights!

the guy I presently have staying here, is here from 10:30 at night to usually about 3:00 the next afternoon and I give him $200.R, ($100.US) and he gets dinner and lunch but the meals are relatively cheap. I have never paid extra for them to sleep over, I figure that if they want to stay in a nice bed in a nice place they are welcome to, but I am not paying for them to sleep! I pay for sex only so most get $150.- 200. R, that's for sex that night and again in the morning. I can't remember ever having a problem with anyone about this. but paying the guys is very individual, I have some friends that pay more than double what I do. It is whatever you agree to and what makes you feel comfortable. The boy that is currently spending overnights here, was working at a bartender and getting alot less than that for a 8 hr shift. again if they are happy and you are happy with the arrangement, don't worry about what anyone else is paying.

Hotel vs. apt. I think all first time visitors are better off in a hotel until they get the "lay of the land". see what area they would like to say and what is most important to them i.e. close to the beach, great views, proximity to saunas, etc.

I started staying in apartments about 3 years ago and wouldn't go back to hotels. I like Ipanema so I stay there, for me the proximity to the metro(subway)system, 2 blocks to the beach, and 3 blocks to the gay area of Ipanema and a 2 drugstores and 2 grocery stores and about 50 restaurants all with in a 3 block radius. I have a 2 bdr, 2 bath, with balcony 2 blocks from the beach and I am paying $180/nt, it's only a 3 story building so that means it's a walk up but not a big deal. but that price is about 1/2 what the hotels are charging that I used to stay in.

(sorry no pics with this post) lol

[Guest parisrio2000]

I have a hour before i have to leave to get Oz and make our way to Meo Mundo and 117 tonight so thought I would take this time to answer some questions I got in private messages.

What do I pay the guys?

I hesitate to put numbers on this because in the past either some have said "you are lying" or exagerrating or making it up.. it really depends on how good a negotiater you are, how badly the guy needs work, what kind and numbers of competition he's got that night at the sauna, etc. Saying that I have never ever paid over $100.R(roughly $50. U.S.) for an hour at a sauna, same goes if they are coming for a afternoon appt, then I add in some extra for the time and metro ride, usually $20.R. but typically it ranges between $80 and $100. R at the sauna. Also being a regular down here and knowing alot of the guys they tend never to dispute the amount I give. if it is a 3 or 4 way there is no differece in Pricing, all get the same amount each.

Overnights!

the guy I presently have staying here, is here from 10:30 at night to usually about 3:00 the next afternoon and I give him $200.R, ($100.US) and he gets dinner and lunch but the meals are relatively cheap. I have never paid extra for them to sleep over, I figure that if they want to stay in a nice bed in a nice place they are welcome to, but I am not paying for them to sleep! I pay for sex only so most get $150.- 200. R, that's for sex that night and again in the morning. I can't remember ever having a problem with anyone about this. but paying the guys is very individual, I have some friends that pay more than double what I do. It is whatever you agree to and what makes you feel comfortable. The boy that is currently spending overnights here, was working at a bartender and getting alot less than that for a 8 hr shift. again if they are happy and you are happy with the arrangement, don't worry about what anyone else is paying.

Hotel vs. apt. I think all first time visitors are better off in a hotel until they get the "lay of the land". see what area they would like to say and what is most important to them i.e. close to the beach, great views, proximity to saunas, etc.

I started staying in apartments about 3 years ago and wouldn't go back to hotels. I like Ipanema so I stay there, for me the proximity to the metro(subway)system, 2 blocks to the beach, and 3 blocks to the gay area of Ipanema and a 2 drugstores and 2 grocery stores and about 50 restaurants all with in a 3 block radius. I have a 2 bdr, 2 bath, with balcony 2 blocks from the beach and I am paying $180/nt, it's only a 3 story building so that means it's a walk up but not a big deal. but that price is about 1/2 what the hotels are charging that I used to stay in.

(sorry no pics with this post) lol

Tomcal you are very skilled at this, and I don't doubt for one second that you're getting these prices. But the word I put in bold, competition, is key. It's not just about numbers. Some of the boys are more attractive than others and can afford to turn down offers. Some charge significantly more than R100 for less than one hour, and they get it (from foreigner as well as Brazilian). Again, there are certainly boys who will do it for the prices you mention, but the elite of Rio will not, posters need to know that.

I had to shake my head laughing also at your quote of R200 or R120 for an overnight. Again, I'm sure there are some who will do it for that. But the boy I know charges (his Brazilian clients) over R4000 for a day, and he gets this price.

[docbr]

I have a very similar experience as yours Tomcal - about how much I usually pay to the boys, not about them flocking to me as they do to you hehehe

Most of the boys like when you are a returning customer and often ask for overnight/going out to dinner so most wont dispute over a 80-100R payment. It helps when they are enjoying the time they are spending.

[TotallyOz]

Tomcal you are very skilled at this, and I don't doubt for one second that you're getting these prices. But the word I put in bold, competition, is key. It's not just about numbers. Some of the boys are more attractive than others and can afford to turn down offers. Some charge significantly more than R100 for less than one hour, and they get it (from foreigner as well as Brazilian). Again, there are certainly boys who will do it for the prices you mention, but the elite of Rio will not, posters need to know that.

I had to shake my head laughing also at your quote of R200 or R120 for an overnight. Again, I'm sure there are some who will do it for that. But the boy I know charges (his Brazilian clients) over R4000 for a day, and he gets this price.

Paris, I hate to be rude. And, I apologize in advance. Please accept my apology.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. I have been with guys in Rio for years and they do not turn down 100. They may turn it down if you are new and they think they can get more but the going rate is 100 and if they see you are good to them and will take care of them, they will do it for that or less. The real key is for them to have fun. Having seen the way Tomcal treats his guys, they all have fun. In fact, tonight a group of 4 of the most beautiful boys in the sauna sat with him for over 2 hours and not once asked for a programma or money. They just sat there and laughed and drank and had a good time. I think he did eventually take them, but they were happy to sit and have fun.

It is important that you realize that everyone's experiences will not be yours.

I could tell you a ton of stories but you are young and I realize that you are maybe new to this but some of your ideas are just not the way it works in Brazil. So sorry if I was rude. My apologies in advance.

[Guest parisrio2000]

Paris, I hate to be rude. And, I apologize in advance. Please accept my apology.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. I have been with guys in Rio for years and they do not turn down 100. They may turn it down if you are new and they think they can get more but the going rate is 100 and if they see you are good to them and will take care of them, they will do it for that or less. The real key is for them to have fun. Having seen the way Tomcal treats his guys, they all have fun. In fact, tonight a group of 4 of the most beautiful boys in the sauna sat with him for over 2 hours and not once asked for a programma or money. They just sat there and laughed and drank and had a good time. I think he did eventually take them, but they were happy to sit and have fun.

It is important that you realize that everyone's experiences will not be yours.

I could tell you a ton of stories but you are young and I realize that you are maybe new to this but some of your ideas are just not the way it works in Brazil. So sorry if I was rude. My apologies in advance.

I'm editing my message to make it shorter...

No need to apologize. But you are vague in your message. When you say they don't turn down 100, what do you mean? For overnight? For one hour? For half an hour; for twenty minutes? Because that was the main point. I know some who charge more than 100 for a period well less than an hour, and they get it, from both Brazilian and foreign clients.

Again read my message. I said I don't doubt tomcal gets those prices. I can too and you're right that that's usually the price for a turn at 117. But not for the top boys. The boys I'm thinking about (and there's very few of them indeed, they don't come every day) make about R500-R600 a night at least. They constantly have a client...

I very much doubt that one of these guys spent 2 hours talking to your friend on a Tuesday night (or any other night). Those 2 hours represent maybe R500, maybe more. Why would they take that kind of a hit?

My point is that if you go to 117 and you're new, don't immediately assume that being asked for a higher price means the boy is trying to rip you off. For a very few of them, that's the market price. But it's a significant few; they're really knockouts.

[Guest tagasian]

Interesting....I better increase my "boys" budget for my trip to Rio in May just in case I get hooked with the high end ones

[firecat691614502759]

Sorry Paris I have to agree , no Brazilian is paying 4000R for an overnight. That is 2x the going rate in NYC, London Mia etc.

No Brazilian would pay that kind of money for a Sauna boy. Even the cream of the crop who go to Europe to make their money don't get 1/2 of that.

As far as the boys spending time with someone drinking and having a good time. That happens all the time, all over the world in Strip Clubs , Saunas. etc. Boys are human any they like to be treated as such. When they know someone will be there for 10 days , they are looking at the total # of programa"s they will get ,not just that day. And when they know someone will provide some different fun and food etc. they may just give up a short time hit.

[Guest lurkerspeaks]

I too have to side with Tomcal, Oz, and Firecat.. I have been to Rio 4 times.. and NEVER heard of any boy asking anywhere near those numbers. The highest I ever had a boy even try to ask for was $R300 for a programma, but he quickly dropped it down as I laughed at him. And on my last trip, I had two overnight sessions with Diogo, who has made several pornos for a couple of different companies there, and I gave him around $150R per night. Granted, we did go grab some food, and one night we went to Le Boy disco, where I bought a few drinks for us, but still it was no where near the amounts ParioRio is quoting. As I stated in another thread, the boys appreciate someone who shows them respect and treats them nicely.

Tagasian, If you budget $80-100 Reias per sauna programma or $150-200 Reias for an overnight, you should be able to have a great time

[Guest parisrio2000]

Sorry Paris I have to agree , no Brazilian is paying 4000R for an overnight. That is 2x the going rate in NYC, London Mia etc.

No Brazilian would pay that kind of money for a Sauna boy. Even the cream of the crop who go to Europe to make their money don't get 1/2 of that.

As far as the boys spending time with someone drinking and having a good time. That happens all the time, all over the world in Strip Clubs , Saunas. etc. Boys are human any they like to be treated as such. When they know someone will be there for 10 days , they are looking at the total # of programa"s they will get ,not just that day. And when they know someone will provide some different fun and food etc. they may just give up a short time hit.

You are saying that the going rate is $1000/day in NYC, London, Miami, etc.? It's just not true. The top rent boys in those places charge $500/hour, sometimes more. The rates are sometimes $20,000/weekend or more. And they get these prices. Look, it doesn't do to misrepresent the market this way...

I know for a fact that a Brazilian paid this boy R4000 for a day, and that was not counting the gifts he bought him. And that wasn't a one-time thing either. The boy walks around with a watch that costs at least $5000 (American, not R). That was a gift for another day's work.

Judging by how many people are "liking" posts made by people who talk about low prices, there is some serious wishful thinking going on in this thread. Yes, I will repeat, you can definitely get a boy for R100 (and often less) for an hour, but not the top ones. You may be able to get a boy to spend an overnight for R200, but not these ones.

The last paragraph in your post is also wishful thinking. Yes these boys enjoy drinking and having a good time--with their friends, not with clients generally. They don't know you and generally don't think much about the clients behind their backs. They're there to work. That doesn't mean they'll necessarily be cold or assholes, but it does mean they're not going to spend 2 hours or even half an hour shooting the shit with you and giving up other clients simply because you may or may not offer them another R100 pop in a couple of days. The boys who do that do so because they don't have a lot of clients and they have to take what they can get. I think you don't understand just how many clients these guys I'm talking about have; they're booked the entire time they come to 117. That means they constantly have clients, and they work the whole night for the few hours they're there. They could care less that you may or may not see them again in the future.

To be clear again, these boys are the exception, but they're total knockouts. You won't find more than 2-3 at the most at 117 at any given period, sometimes less. It's actually in fact rare to see them there because the elite escorts of Rio will see men on the outside and charge about R400/hour and up. But for certain reasons you will see boys of this quality at 117 too; but you won't be able to get them for R100/hr.

All I'm saying is that the market has several levels and people here shouldn't get the wrong idea. The market for women works the same way. There are places downtown where you can get something for as little as R10-R20 a pop. Then there are strip clubs where R300 is the going rate and private escorts that charge many times that. The market for men is cheaper but also has several scales.

Anyway, some wishful thinking going on in this thread, like I said. I'm doing my best to give a clearer picture. I'm not denying what tomcal said, this is the third time I repeat this, but that's not the whole story. The boys who will do it for that price hold no interest for me. And you're totally misrepresenting the market in the US, Europe, as well as in Brazil if you don't think rentboys can command those prices.

[Guest parisrio2000]

I too have to side with Tomcal, Oz, and Firecat.. I have been to Rio 4 times.. and NEVER heard of any boy asking anywhere near those numbers. The highest I ever had a boy even try to ask for was $R300 for a programma, but he quickly dropped it down as I laughed at him. And on my last trip, I had two overnight sessions with Diogo, who has made several pornos for a couple of different companies there, and I gave him around $150R per night. Granted, we did go grab some food, and one night we went to Le Boy disco, where I bought a few drinks for us, but still it was no where near the amounts ParioRio is quoting. As I stated in another thread, the boys appreciate someone who shows them respect and treats them nicely.

Tagasian, If you budget $80-100 Reias per sauna programma or $150-200 Reias for an overnight, you should be able to have a great time

I know of no good-looking rentboy who will only charge R150/night. It's absurd. The guys I know make R600 for a few hours' work at 117. Even the ones who are not at the top of the game will make about R300/night. Why would they spend 12-24 hrs with you or accompany you to a bar for R150?

The R300 thing for one programma is a bit of a red herring. The boys I'm talking about may charge R150 for half an hour. They're not going to spend an hour with you for R100, though, and an overnight, if they're even open to the suggestion, will cost you considerably more.

As for the advice you give Tagasian, sure. As I say now for the fourth time R80-R100 is the going rate. But the rate for the top ones is much higher. Don't give people the wrong impression.

[Guest parisrio2000]

Interesting....I better increase my "boys" budget for my trip to Rio in May just in case I get hooked with the high end ones

Again, I don't see why I have to repeat this for the fifth time, but just so people get it: you can definitely get a guy for the prices tomcal quoted, and sometimes a very good guy. This is especially so if you catch a great "new" boy, before he realizes the prices he can command. But my point is that there are a few who charge more, and they're worth it. It doesn't have to break your bank though. I have nowhere near the amount of money to pay for a day. But you may pay R150 or so for half an hour, and I don't think that's an unfair price. Don't get ripped off, but don't immediately assume that a boy asking above the rates quoted here is trying to scam you.

[Guest parisrio2000]

I had too much coffee and wrote too many posts. Apologies to Oz if I'm spamming his forum.

I don't want foreigners to get ripped off in Brazil. But don't assume that anything above the prices discussed here is a ripoff. Keep your eyes open, see the market, demand/supply lol and most of all see if you like the boy. R80-R100 is the going rate, but again, some do charge more and everyone pays them more, because they're worth it.

One thing I will disagree with about "market rate" is that R200/overnight thing. That sounds awfully low.

[Guest lurkerspeaks]

People, believe who you will. Just please look back at the posts archived here and see who shows the experience over the years and make your own decisions who you want to believe..

Ok, one last thought to everyone--..For those of you who have visited Rio's saunas in the past..how many times have you seen clients in their 20's in the saunas? .

My final two cents worth on this discussion of rates.

[Guest parisrio2000]

By the way...the rate a few years back, not even that long ago was R50. Even tomcal says it's doubled now.

My point isn't to make you pay more. The going rate is indeed R80-R100 at 117, and maybe you can even get away with R70 at times. But there are some who charge more, and they're not ripping you off, that's the price they get on market.

There are different scales to the market. Try offering a go-go boy R200 for an overnight and see what happens.

[TotallyOz]

Parisrio2000, I respect your thoughts and opinions. I just do not believe they are based on reality. So sorry. But, as I love sauna boys, I hope that they are able to get 4000 a night from some clients. I just won't be one of them.

Having been to Rio at least 20 times in the last 10 years and often times for months at a time, I have never experienced the things you do. However, each of us are different and our interactions with guys are different. I have been known to do stupid things from time to time including spending 1k USD on a guy in Sao Paulo for an overnight simply because I thought he was the most stunning creature on earth and I believed he would not go for less. I was wrong. He was playing the game. That was OK with me. I have seen him on this trip and his rate was 80R for a short time or 150 for overnight. And, as a former pimp in NYC, I can tell you that his beauty is beyond comparison and had he been in NYC, I would be able to make him rich. But, he is not. He is in Brazil. It is different. The rates are not the same.

For those of you that read this thread and think Tomcal is off in his rates, I'll tell you that he is accurate. Believe Tomcal and I or someone else, Your choice. But, please don't believe the rates Paris is quoting as I think he is being played by a professional. That said, I have been played in the past as well and most likely will be again. When you find the perfect guy that meets all your criteria, you tend to forget about the money. LOL I did. I will again. But, I always do it with open eyes knowing I am getting screwed.

[firecat691614502759]

The bottom line is Paris professes to know the market all over the world and he just does not know what he is talking about.

The best escorts in NYC are lucky if they can get $1200 for a night. And most times will grab $1000. The old rarra days are over.

If what he was saying was true then why are all the stunners from Brazil going to Barcelona, Berlin, London etc where they can make more money then Brazil. And even there they are making nothing close to the equivalent of 4000 reals.

Could there be one Brazilian who had a super rich Daddy fall in love with him and money is no object. Of course that happens all over the world but it is the rare exception and when it does happen it is for extended periods of time not overnights.

It is just ridiculous to think that a Brazilian boy who is making 4000 a night would go to the saunas where at most he might make 300 and that would be rare.

[AdamSmith]

You are saying that the going rate is $1000/day in NYC, London, Miami, etc.? It's just not true. The top rent boys in those places charge $500/hour, sometimes more. The rates are sometimes $20,000/weekend or more. And they get these prices. Look, it doesn't do to misrepresent the market this way...

Well, I agree with your last sentence.

The question is what is the market, and what is misrepresentative of it. The "going rate" I interpret as the typical or average rate. In NYC $1000-1200 for an overnight certainly is that. Hourly, guys there who can command more than $300 (even that) are few and far between these days.

I know for a fact that a Brazilian paid this boy R4000 for a day, and that was not counting the gifts he bought him. And that wasn't a one-time thing either. The boy walks around with a watch that costs at least $5000 (American, not R). That was a gift for another day's work.

This phenomenon exists everywhere. So? Again, it just does not represent "the market." It describes a very small number of guys who have of course some natural assets, and either the smarts or luck to have access to some rich, generous or gullible clients.

(Thinking about a few working guys I know who have serviced the very wealthy, it seems even those clients seldom throw money away. The whole package may include extended engagements at good fees; 5-star food, drink and accommodations naturally; often clothes and gifts, and so on. But it is demanding work, of its kind; they earn every penny, I think. And of course not without its own risks in terms of career arc: pricing themselves out of the broad market -- something to consider when the Gilded Age client capriciously decides he has had enough; re-entry into the more workaday market as Damaged Goods; etc. It has befallen more than one. But that is another thread...)

[Guest tomcal]

Sorry guys this was started as a informative and visually fun post for all of you and then the pond got muddied!

I put a caveat in the begining that I really don't like posting this info as it leads to certain posters on any message board out there having to "correct" what MY experiences are/were. Saying that let me rephrase," The rates I quoted applied to ALL of the guys I posted pictures of in this Thread! " there is no room for disagreement on that! They might not be the "Elite" that Parisrio talks about but they sure make me happy! Might they ask for more money from someone else? Yes! especially someone new. Honestly this trip there isn't one of the guys pictured that I discussed rates with, I handed them the money at the endwhich is the same amount i have been paying for quite some time and I think all or most just put in their pocket without counting, again I had known most of them from past trips and since I saw most of them multipe times both in P.A. and Rio I guess they thought it was ok, because when I would walk into the sauna the next day they would smile and come right over to my table(OZ is a witness so that fact can't be disputed)

One point is Parisrio's phrase RIOELITE! not sure what that means and since he has never posted a picture ever, I can't comment. but will say that all of us have varing tastes, someones elite could be someone else' "not my type guy"! Several of my friends that I travel with, we have very different types and one that they may find hot and sexy i find soso or visa versa!

I have known several different guys who while very sucessful in business are just plain dumb when it comes to a dick attached a gorgous body and have paid large sums of money to them, which Parisrio has stated, the point is that is certainly a small tiny exception.

btw, this question is for Parisrio. Didn't you say this stunning guy is straight and doesnt do anything? so you and the other guys you know are paying these rates for Muscle worship?? Isn't that more then Calvin Klein pays his top models? just curious.

[Guest EXPAT]

I can also confirm that in NYC and in Los Angeles it is a very small minority and I mean very small minority that can get rates over $2000 a day. The average in fact even for the best is between $1000 - $1500 a day/night and 1500 is even rare.

[lookin]

Can't speak to Brazil but, in ParisRio's defense, rates have gone up considerably, in this country at least.

When I was in my twenties, I could get laid for the price of a sarsaparilla and now, not even a half-century later, the increases have been unreal. In fact, I recently had a guy tell me he wouldn't touch me for a million bucks.

Talk about inflation!

[RA1]

Have you bought any sarsaparilla lately? It has gone up mightily also.

I have a distinct feeling this is like an international airline ticket. You might have paid $2,000 for your seat and the person next to you only $800. Both seats are on the same aircraft and will get to the destination at the same time. Is one more valuable than the other? No. However, it depends upon when and where and how each bought their tickets.

Best regards,

RA1

[Guest parisrio2000]

I've done my best to explain things and it seems that wishful thinking and entitlement-mentality wins out. I've made it clear several times that it's a tiny minority of boys who ask for higher prices. That doesn't mean $500/hour and it doesn't mean you will pay them for overnight, but it does mean you'll pay more than R80-R100. Let me explain briefly why I emphasized this point.

I don't get ripped off, either in the past, or by the guy I'm seeing now. I don't pay huge rates, I have no money to. That said, I missed out on some great chances in the past because I thought I was "being taken advantage of." At least two guys I can remember. They asked for more than the going rate and I hemmed and hawed and then they disappeared. They weren't trying to up their prices. I found out from other clients later that one of them was actually giving me a discount.

The most extravagant demand I got was from a go-go boy at Le Boy who told me he charged R400/hour when I called him. Looking back on it I wish I had taken his offer. By the time I agreed he had disappeared. He was booked the whole time. He was about 6'3, white, perfect body, handsome, very masculine, etc.; he wasn't trying to scam me, that was the rate he was getting. Because I had this mentality that some posters here have, I missed out on being with one of the hottest men I could have been with. I still think about him years later.

Don't get taken advantage of, R80-R100 is generally the rate and that's what you should go for (again it used to be only R50 very recently). But don't assume that because you get asked more that it's a ripoff. Think it through...if there's a guy with a very handsome face, ripped body, big cock, etc., etc., do you really think he's only worth $10 more than another guy without these attributes? Some of them are married or have girlfriends. Do you really think they have nothing better to do than hang out for 15 hours with an old gringo for R200, which barely pays your cover charge at some nightclubs in Rio these days?

The things generally said in this thread about the escort market both in the US and here are way off. The boys who take $1000/night in the US are not at the top of their game. The top escorts charge $500/hour or more, like I said. The rates they ask for 24 hours or a weekend are obscene, but there are obscenely rich people who pay these rates. Same for Brazil. I would never pay that money because I don't have it, but I'm not lying, and have no reason to. These are Brazilian clients who pay him those rates. And he, and the few others like him, make well over R500 per night at 117. They won't do an overnight with you for R200.

There's another small reason I'm emphasizing this. There is denial of reality among some of the older clients at 117 as well, and it's ugly to see. I mean guys who go there for a while and actually know the prices and what's going on. They have a virulent hatred for the boys who do very well and who blow them off. It's very ugly to see, and it's an entitlement-mentality on the part of the clients. They want to stomp their feet and insist that these boys don't deserve what they're getting, that they're "conceited," that they won't give their ass, etc., etc., in the end it doesn't matter. The boys continue to get a lot of clients and they don't need to please these guys who complain. But to me it's very ugly entitlement-mentality to see this on the part of clients. These clients are angry the boys won't sit down with them for an hour and chat for the possibility of getting a pittance at the end of this, not realizing that the ones who actually do that, do so because they don't have enough clients and have to take what they can get. It's actually a very womanish kind of rationalization that these older clients are doing, and I'm afraid some of the posters here are the same. The market is what it is. I have no reason to lie here, but I guarantee you 100% you're not paying R100 for an hour with these guys, and certainly not paying R200 for overnight, no matter how smooth you are.

Tomcal, I never denied you were getting the rates you were getting. The constant denial by some other posters of what I'm saying in this thread, and that they ignore this repeated admission that those are indeed the general rates, makes me have to shrug. They're just ignoring what I'm saying. But on the opposite side, I have to add, tastes may vary, but the boys whose pics you've posted so far hold no interest for me; if I thought that's what all guys look like in Brazil, I wouldn't have come here. Tastes are not entirely subjective. These guys I'm talking about command higher prices because of general agreement that they're the hottest. Even the old queens at 117 who dislike them for their attitude concede as much.

Straight doesn't mean they only do muscle worship; since you mention Calvin Klein, my understanding is that he used to frequent the sauna and he paid a flat rate of R700 per programma, whatever that means. Some of the smarter boys avoided him because they know he's diseased.

The rarra days, as another poster said, are not over. The top rentboys in any country will command obscene prices. In the US you're not even likely to know these boys are on the market, as they're kept entirely private. In Brazil it is rare that you run into one of them, even at 117. They're swept up very fast by rich men and taken off the market. Some refuse to do this for a variety of reasons, or you can find them before they're taken. You should be lucky to. I have a suspicion that there's another, secret 117, in Rio with these other kinds of boys, but you wouldn't know about it.