TotallyOz Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Just this week, a famous musical legend, Clive Davis, came out as being bisexual. It was nothing new to many in the industry and it was pretty common knowledge. It got me to think of a well-known rapper I know who has wild LA orgies with both male and female attendants and he and everyone else has sex with everyone. I have many gay friends who have been with him many times and use the term bisexual often. Speaking to a few young people in the past few months, many have said they have experimented with both men and women and many hate the terms that define their sexuality. Personally, I call myself gay but I also occasionally have sex with women. I have on more than a few occasions has sex with ladyboys or TS. I do love guys and I love having sex with them but I also love the touch of a woman and a ladyboy. Having been with many Brazilian boys over the years who are extremely versatile and fantastic at sex who also see women and I have asked many if they are gay and they always say they are not but that they like sex with both men and women. It is not just for pay. It is also for pleasure for many of them. In a recent thread in the Latin America Forum, one poster is very determined to never go with anyone who says he is gay. Would the same be true if they said they were bisexual? In Thailand, it seems that many of the western ways are creeping in and that they are thinking more like "us" which is scary. I hope that does not include our views of sexuality. So, I was thinking about this and wonder if those of us that are older are more prejudice towards those that are bisexual than those that are not? We we as a group discriminate against those that don't openly say, "I'm a Gay" or to those those that refuse to label themselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky Posted February 23, 2013 Members Share Posted February 23, 2013 Oh, come on, Oz. The poster who said he would never go with a gay guy is just a bigot. He has a false admiration for masculinity and his self-loathing of his own homosexuality makes him steer clear of people like him. We are to admire that as a standard of modern sexuality? I posted not so long ago on this topic, or more accurately the reluctance of younger people to box themselves in as gay or straight. They see themselves as just sexual. Hard to argue with that in some sense, but we are who we are despite any labels we use. Clive Davis bisexual? Or is he just not ready to come out all the way? That's been the story with most bisexuals I have known. Some people are highly sexual, and for them, any warm body will do. So what doe we call them? Omnisexual? Or sluts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyOz Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 Oh, come on, Oz. The poster who said he would never go with a gay guy is just a bigot.I don't think he is a bigot. He just has a preference for straight guys. If I substitute straight for masculine, I have that preference as well.Some people are highly sexual, and for them, any warm body will do. So what doe we call them? Omnisexual? Or sluts? I always call them Lucky. Lucky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hitoallusa Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 What! Does this mean Exdous gay is true? A gay guy can be straight and have sex with women too... I don't agree to Exodus gay but believe a selected few were able to turn themselves from being gay to straight. Also reverting back to being gay is possible after being straight... I think one's sexuality is a very complicated thing... Is it a choice? Born with it? Acquired? Or result of complex combinations of many factors (innate and environmental). I don't have an answer so I will humble myself and see how my life goes.. I will get back on this in my death bed... I hope I have a husband by then who will keep my bed side... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamSmith Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Oz, didn't we settle this the other day? We are "sewer rats." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Lucky Posted February 23, 2013 Members Share Posted February 23, 2013 Once I had sex with a man, I never again went with a woman. I'm gay, and proud of it. I realize that diversity is to be valued, so if your boat floats with women once in a while, then sail on, my congratulations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest EXPAT Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I know a number of men under 30 who consider themselves "fluid". But I bet they will pick a sex eventually and stick with it. I know I did. I started with women and then with men and never went back to women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parisrio2000 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Oh, come on, Oz. The poster who said he would never go with a gay guy is just a bigot. He has a false admiration for masculinity and his self-loathing of his own homosexuality makes him steer clear of people like him. We are to admire that as a standard of modern sexuality? I posted not so long ago on this topic, or more accurately the reluctance of younger people to box themselves in as gay or straight. They see themselves as just sexual. Hard to argue with that in some sense, but we are who we are despite any labels we use. Clive Davis bisexual? Or is he just not ready to come out all the way? That's been the story with most bisexuals I have known. Some people are highly sexual, and for them, any warm body will do. So what doe we call them? Omnisexual? Or sluts? Lucky, learn to read. Seems like you try to fit everything into stale clichees you learned from after-school TV specials and lectures on "diversity" that you use to hector others. Just because I'm not turned on by effeminate men doesn't mean I'm "self-loathing." I suppose to put you at ease I should sacrifice my own sexual desires and just hook up with "gay" guys so that I can support a retarded 30-year old political identity movement and make you feel good about your chosen "lifestyle." My only concern insofar as sex is concerned is good sex though, not politics, and not "pride." And if you paid attention to my post in that other thread, what I said is that I'm attracted to young, handsome, muscular, masculine guys. In theory I could care less what they call themselves or what or who they do aside from me. But experience has taught me that genuinely masculine gay men are extremely rare; of the very few who do exist, they're not likely to also be young, handsome, and muscular and so on and so forth. So by necessity I end up paying the guys who do have the qualities I like, who are nearly always straight; maybe at the 99% level. This is why I, and others like me, come to Brazil. At Lagoa I met another client, gay dude around my age who I became friends with, who is very effeminate and very open about his sexuality, but who thinks the same way I do. He he has no interest in gay men anymore because, guess what, the stereotypes are true so often, and many times supposedly masculine gay men are not that at all (and actually so many straight guys today are pussies as well); and through experience and failure with trying it with gay guys he's come to write them off, as a general rule, because they don't satisfy him sexually or emotionally. It's got nothing to do with "bigotry" or these tedious things you keep bringing up. What it's got to do with is that when you're sexually submissive it's a complete turnoff to submit to a guy who seems "off" in that way, you see what I mean? I know this offends your sensibilities, which are not sexual, but political and ideological. But what the fuck does being "proud" to be "gay" have to do with getting your rocks off? Are you interested in "pride," "identity," "rights," or are you interested hot sex? Because my guess is that a whole lot of gay guys are just like me, but instead of admitting it, they pretend that they really only want to have sex with other "gay" guys and that this satisfies them, which it definitely does not. If you think about it, it makes no logical sense for a gay guy to be exclusively or even mainly interested in just other gay guys. If you like masculinity, and admire strength and virility and male beauty, you're going to find these qualities almost exclusively among a small minority of straight men. It's just how nature is made, and no amount of talking about "pride" is going to change that what I, and probably a lot of other gay guys, like is just very difficult to find. Don't blame "self-loathing," "bigotry," don't blame society or the laws for your problems. I have a general theory that old queens like you are behind all this political agitation in the "gay" movement because you're so sexually unsatisfied when you hook up with another queen, so then you turn your frustration and resentment onto "society" and in particular against the straight men that you can't have, and think that "pride" and marching in parades will solve your problems. But they won't, and that empty feeling you have when you are in a "relationship" with a "gay" dude won't go away no matter how many laws are passed that confirm you in your "lifestyle"; because you're both after something that neither of you can give each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeron Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 >>. But experience has taught me that genuinely masculine gay men are extremely rare I think the reason you provoke a negative reaction from people is because statements like this sound very judgmental. Using the term 'masculine' can be a useful shortcut, but the term is more than a bit loaded. Gay man have been attacked for a long time for being effeminate and not real men. A lot of us react to these comments negatively. We can start off with the obvious, what is masculinity? That is personally and culturally defined. There is no one definitive answer. Then you add 'genuine' implying that there is a 'fake' masculinity, or at least "one true" masculinity that most of us haven't got. We could further debate, but I doubt many are interested, the underlying sexism of homophobia and the masculine/effeminate split. I would suggest rather than making it sound a bit like all gay men are failures as men (not masculine enough), that you say that you are only attracted to a few men who have a specific aura of masculinity that attracts you. Then you're talking about your particular sexuality and it doesn't sound like you're judging the rest of the gay world for failing to be butch enough to get you hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parisrio2000 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 >>. But experience has taught me that genuinely masculine gay men are extremely rare I think the reason you provoke a negative reaction from people is because statements like this sound very judgmental. Using the term 'masculine' can be a useful shortcut, but the term is more than a bit loaded. Gay man have been attacked for a long time for being effeminate and not real men. A lot of us react to these comments negatively. We can start off with the obvious, what is masculinity? That is personally and culturally defined. There is no one definitive answer. Then you add 'genuine' implying that there is a 'fake' masculinity, or at least "one true" masculinity that most of us haven't got. We could further debate, but I doubt many are interested, the underlying sexism of homophobia and the masculine/effeminate split. I would suggest rather than making it sound a bit like all gay men are failures as men (not masculine enough), that you say that you are only attracted to a few men who have a specific aura of masculinity that attracts you. Then you're talking about your particular sexuality and it doesn't sound like you're judging the rest of the gay world for failing to be butch enough to get you hard. Gay men have been "attacked" for a long time for being effeminate because it's true in the vast majority of cases. I'm sorry if this offends, but it's the plain truth in front of everyone's eyes, and no amount of talking about "culturally defined" this or that or "sexism" or "homophobia" is going to change that. For what it's worth the majority of straight males in much of the developed world also are effeminate today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lookin Posted February 23, 2013 Members Share Posted February 23, 2013 If you like masculinity, and admire strength and virility and male beauty, you're going to find these qualities almost exclusively among a small minority of straight men. It's just how nature is made, and no amount of talking about "pride" is going to change that what I, and probably a lot of other gay guys, like is just very difficult to find. Have you ever considered just having a snatch installed? AdamSmith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeron Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Gay men have been "attacked" for a long time for being effeminate because it's true in the vast majority of cases. I'm sorry if this offends, but it's the plain truth in front of everyone's eyes, and no amount of talking about "culturally defined" this or that or "sexism" or "homophobia" is going to change that. For what it's worth the majority of straight males in much of the developed world also are effeminate today... Wow. So judgmental. I have to agree with Lucky. You have issues. Lucky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest parisrio2000 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Judgmental, is that another word for noticing this thing called "reality" and not using polite words to hide it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zipperzone Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Thinking back on my younger days...... I believe that there were more "queen, nelly behaving" gays than you find today. Remember when a lot of gays wore those fluffy angora sweaters, used expressions like "get her", always called their gay friends by female names, the more ridiculous the better, such as Flora, Ruby, Gertrude etc? Today those types of gays are in the minority with many trying to be as masculine as the men in the Calvin Klein ads. Times are a changing, gays are evolving and IMO this is an important step in attaining the acceptance of straights. I find gay pride parades, while entertaining, really to be very damaging as they often portray us as a group, in a very negative manner. As for effeminate straight men, many of them manage to hide behind the term "metrosexual". And that's my 2 cents worth, although it may be worthless as Canada has recently stopped producing 1 cent coins..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caeron Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Judgmental, is that another word for noticing this thing called "reality" and not using polite words to hide it? No, judgmental is the word when a young kid presumes his understanding of the world is universal, rather than one small, flawed perspective. Lucky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hitoallusa Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 When being judgmental is not always negative to one's survival but it could harm or offend others unnecessary. I have seen so many judgmental people succeed and fall in my profession and thought there was some kind of hidden rule played here... Anyways, people pressing people not to be judgmental but not sure whether that is possible.. We are after a bit judgmental no matter what... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NCBored Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Thinking back on my younger days...... I believe that there were more "queen, nelly behaving" gays than you find today. Remember when a lot of gays wore those fluffy angora sweaters, used expressions like "get her", always called their gay friends by female names, the more ridiculous the better, such as Flora, Ruby, Gertrude etc? Today those types of gays are in the minority with many trying to be as masculine as the men in the Calvin Klein ads. Times are a changing, gays are evolving and IMO this is an important step in attaining the acceptance of straights. I find gay pride parades, while entertaining, really to be very damaging as they often portray us as a group, in a very negative manner. As for effeminate straight men, many of them manage to hide behind the term "metrosexual". And that's my 2 cents worth, although it may be worthless as Canada has recently stopped producing 1 cent coins..... I think that some of that behavior can be attributed to a desire to assert sexual identity in defiance of societal 'norms' or to build a separate cultural identity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiBottomBoy Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Bisexuality is much more prevelent and I'll tell you why. Girls have seen gay porn and it turns them on and a lot of them will tell guys they want to see two guys together. So a guy who was bi 20 years ago might have just fucked girls because he would figure girls would reject him if he fucked guys, but today he knows that fucking dudes will actually get him more girls so he'll be more willing to do both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
