Advice on Dealing with Difficult Rentboy

[Guest parisrio2000]

I know this is a longer message, but maybe someone can give me some advice, and I'd be grateful. Happy to give tips and advice back...

There's a guy I met last summer (July) at 117...I'd prefer not to give out his name for now, as it's not important. He was easily in my opinion the hottest guy there, and other clients (who didn't like him because of his personality) agreed with this. If you were there, maybe you know who I'm talking about. The guy is absolutely a spectacular specimen, probably the best-looking boy I've seen at 117 over the years, and one of the hottest men I've ever known, period. I was actually surprised he was at 117 because, although the place has very good-looking guys sometimes, the extremely good looking ones quickly go "private" and leave, moving in elite/expensive circles, or getting one rich client to be their long-term patron.

He is, however, very ..."difficult," and I'd like some advice on how to deal with this. Now, he's straight, in fact straighter than most guys who go there (which is why a lot of the clients don't like him). He's arrogant and cold. None of these things bother me, these qualities turn me on. What bothers me is, first of all, that he will not meet with me outside of 117, like at a hotel or apt.; I've tried everything to get him to go with me, and it doesn't work. Let me go into some detail about this problem, because I don't understand this guy's behavior...

The first time, we had a good time, although brief. By good I mean he was dominant, excited, he was into it, he was joking around with me, etc.; he told me to call him during the week and we could set up a meeting time. Well I called and never got an answer. When I ran into him at 117 next weekend he was booked with a client (I later found out the older client had paid a huge sum to be with him for the weekend), and acted generally cold and dismissive. I ended up not going back for a while because outside I pursue girls, and I got involved with a girl for a bit. When I came back a month later he seemed happy to see me, but would absolutely refuse to meet me outside, and said the number he had given me was not his own, and that he didn't have a number... lol. We had several other encounters, in which I basically treated him like a god, and he acted generally disinterested, bored.

I have no intention of "buying his love" or of having a boyfriend. If our encounters could be like the first time, and if he would occasionally meet me outside in a more relaxed setting, I'd be happy. But I have no idea how to get what I want from him, or why he's acting this way. I've run through the possibilities. First, as for money, I've been very generous to him, tipped him well, and also give him gifts from time to time (yes, I KNOW you're not "supposed" to do this, but I like the kid a lot and I like to make gifts to people I like). Second, as for the possibility he finds me repulsive or disgusting, I've thought about this too, but, not to brag, I'm young (late 20's), in very good shape, and people say I'm good-looking...I get cash offers of my own from older guys at 117 or if I stand outside certain bars in Ipanema. And then there's also the first time, when he seemed to enjoy himself, and was not bored or disinterested at all. That said, maybe he does find me repulsive, or thinks I'm a nasty fag from the US, or whatever. If so, I don't know how to deal with this...I try to joke around with him, it looks like we have fun, I tell him interesting stories, but then he always reverts back to being totally dismissive, bored, cold, etc.; and what's more annoying is that he seems to be quite friendly and talkative with some of the older (Brazilian) clients there. So I have to think it's some personal dislike or that he has no respect for me.

I don't know how to deal with this. Usually if a girl acts this way you have to ignore her and treat her badly and she'll usually come back to you, but I don't think that would work with a rentboy, let alone this kind! If anyone has ever encountered anything similar and has some advice about how to get what I want from this guy, please let me know.

[Gotti]

Coul you describe him phisically and possibly give his initial (s). I might know who you are talking about.

[Guest parisrio2000]

Coul you describe him phisically and possibly give his initial (s). I might know who you are talking about.

Check PM...

[caeron]

My personal experience is that trying to figure out what makes other people do crazy things is a sure recipe to go crazy yourself.

You can't control other people, and sometimes they do things that just make no sense. The thing that you can control is how you respond to other people and their insanity.

There may well be no magic thing you can do to make this guy like you and interact with you in the way that you want. Because really, isn't that what you're asking? Not so much to understand him as the key that will get him to behave the way you want him to?

It is incredibly hard when you're emotionally/hormonally engaged to step back and realize that you have zero control over the other person. That there is probably _nothing_ you can do to get them to respond to you the way you want them to... But if you can make that hard step, then it can be incredibly freeing. You stop trying to perform some miracle, and just be yourself and let it happen or not as it will.

In my 20s (more than a few years past!), I was a bit of a control freak and I thought somehow if I just figured out what to do or say to a guy I liked that I could get them to like me. I was sure that it was in my power to win any guy I liked over to me. It was a hard lesson to realize that that just wasn't the case.

Good luck, but from what you've described, you don't have what this guy wants now. Maybe it's insane amounts of cash. Maybe he's got internalized homophobia and now has guilt about enjoying time with you so is pushing you away. Maybe you smell funny (joking!). The point is that the list of maybes goes on pretty much forever and you can't control most of them. So stop trying.

So, I'd just leave him be. Maybe he'll come back around, maybe he won't. You can't control that. But _trying_ to control that will just make you crazy so don't....

My .02, anyway.

[Guest EXPAT]

I'm sorry to be blunt and maybe a bit disrespectful, but I have to ask why anyone would want to spend 5 minutes with someone like that? I just don't get it. I know sometimes it's based on a fantasy that will never be; sometimes it's because we can't respect ourselves so we don't think we deserve any respect so we seek out these types of relationships. But this is not a healthy encounter by any way shape or form. My advice would be to avoid him at all costs and move on. Sorry to be blunt. But these situations I read so often and it slays me that they continue to happen.

[Guest parisrio2000]

My personal experience is that trying to figure out what makes other people do crazy things is a sure recipe to go crazy yourself.

You can't control other people, and sometimes they do things that just make no sense. The thing that you can control is how you respond to other people and their insanity.

There may well be no magic thing you can do to make this guy like you and interact with you in the way that you want. Because really, isn't that what you're asking? Not so much to understand him as the key that will get him to behave the way you want him to?

It is incredibly hard when you're emotionally/hormonally engaged to step back and realize that you have zero control over the other person. That there is probably _nothing_ you can do to get them to respond to you the way you want them to... But if you can make that hard step, then it can be incredibly freeing. You stop trying to perform some miracle, and just be yourself and let it happen or not as it will.

In my 20s (more than a few years past!), I was a bit of a control freak and I thought somehow if I just figured out what to do or say to a guy I liked that I could get them to like me. I was sure that it was in my power to win any guy I liked over to me. It was a hard lesson to realize that that just wasn't the case.

Good luck, but from what you've described, you don't have what this guy wants now. Maybe it's insane amounts of cash. Maybe he's got internalized homophobia and now has guilt about enjoying time with you so is pushing you away. Maybe you smell funny (joking!). The point is that the list of maybes goes on pretty much forever and you can't control most of them. So stop trying.

So, I'd just leave him be. Maybe he'll come back around, maybe he won't. You can't control that. But _trying_ to control that will just make you crazy so don't....

My .02, anyway.

What you say is probably good advice, but I can't help wondering why...and while you're right that my aim is practical, so that I can enjoy my time with him more, I'm also just curious. I don't think it's impossible to understand people's motivations...even in case it's something I can't control, like huge amounts of money, I'd still like to know, out of curiosity. But actually I don't think it's money (I can go into it, I didn't want to make the message too long...)

If what you were saying were true about, e.g., women, then men would just shrug their shoulders and never think about smart ways of seducing girls. But actually girls are pretty predictable and there are often (not always) ways to seduce and win over a reluctant or difficult girl, or to get a girlfriend who's bitchy to stop being so. I'm asking about this guy because he's not a girl and I have no idea how to deal with a rentboy who's acting this way. I thought some of the more seasoned travelers on this site might have an idea...

I can't easily replace him, by the way, and will continue to see him on his own terms. My taste is unfortunately very selective, and I have no sexual response to 99% of guys, including the ones at 117; it took me a long time to find a guy like him. I'm willing to put up with all this, but I'd like at least to understand why he'd be acting this way, and at best to get to a situation where we're having more fun together, like the first time.

[Guest parisrio2000]

I'm sorry to be blunt and maybe a bit disrespectful, but I have to ask why anyone would want to spend 5 minutes with someone like that? I just don't get it. I know sometimes it's based on a fantasy that will never be; sometimes it's because we can't respect ourselves so we don't think we deserve any respect so we seek out these types of relationships. But this is not a healthy encounter by any way shape or form. My advice would be to avoid him at all costs and move on. Sorry to be blunt. But these situations I read so often and it slays me that they continue to happen.

The reason is simple: he's fucking hot!

[msclelovr]

I can't think of another case where the old saying applies more appropriately than to your stated problem:

"if you do what you've always done, you get what you always got"

Expat's advice may be blunt, but I feel he is correct. Save yourself considerable upset and heartache by moving on. Stop fixating on this one guy and his incomprehensible actions. There are lots of good-looking, well-muscled young men in Brazil who would welcome you as one of their customers.

[ihpguy]

He is a simply an adult man attempting to sell his body for money in a male whorehouse.

Econ 101. Product to sell looking for a consumer. Nothing more. Nothing less. You are the client.

For whatever reason, he does not want to work for you. FUGGEDABOUTIT.

There are over 12 million people in metropolitan Rio de Janeiro. He is most definitely not the be-all or end-all.

Here in Rio, there are stores that sell paper and plastic goods -throw-away items. Called here in Portugues -DESCARTAVEIS. Discardables. He is one. If not this month, soon enough.

In the US, I think most will usually give someone a second or third chance. But in Rio, with the multitudes willing to work for minimum or near-minimum wage, that doesn't happen. No second chances. Ditto for the man whore/sauna "boy". Give him your name, phone, e-mail if you wish, but forget him and find another.

Open your eyes, NEXT!

[Guest parisrio2000]

I can't think of another case where the old saying applies more appropriately than to your stated problem:

"if you do what you've always done, you get what you always got"

Expat's advice may be blunt, but I feel he is correct. Save yourself considerable upset and heartache by moving on. Stop fixating on this one guy and his incomprehensible actions. There are lots of good-looking, well-muscled young men in Brazil who would welcome you as one of their customers.

Well I'm in Sao Paulo now looking around and the boys in the saunas here only remind me of how much hotter he is lol. I'm talking about someone whose beauty really stands out, and like I said, it's not just my personal opinion. I don't want to replace him, and actually I enjoy being with him even on the terms I described. I just thought some of the more seasoned members here had an idea how to deal with this situation, or if they encountered this problem in the past. But I suppose the solution is always to move on to another one? I can't do that...it took me years to find a guy like this.

I would like not to do the same thing I've always done, I agree with you! I want to know what would work with a boy like this. Look, if this were a girl, the procedure would be standard. I would give this advice, "You need to ignore her, make her jealous by parading in front of her with a hot girl, you need not to treat her like a princess but bring her down a bit with biting humor," and so on. I don't think that would work with a guy though, let alone a rentboy.

As for his actions, not all are incomprehensible. He told me he doesn't want to meet out because he'd be embarrassed to be seen at a motel with a guy, and I believe him. And I like the fact that he's cold and arrogant, I'm not a fan of obsequious super-nice style of so many rentboys. I'd just like to be able to be on somewhat friendlier terms with him and to enjoy ourselves more when we meet. The first time he seemed to enjoy himself. Maybe I need to bring a girl into it

[Guest parisrio2000]

He is a simply an adult man attempting to sell his body for money in a male whorehouse.

Econ 101. Product to sell looking for a consumer. Nothing more. Nothing less. You are the client.

For whatever reason, he does not want to work for you. FUGGEDABOUTIT.

There are over 12 million people in metropolitan Rio de Janeiro. He is most definitely not the be-all or end-all.

Here in Rio, there are stores that sell paper and plastic goods -throw-away items. Called here in Portugues -DESCARTAVEIS. Discardables. He is one. If not this month, soon enough.

In the US, I think most will usually give someone a second or third chance. But in Rio, with the multitudes willing to work for minimum or near-minimum wage, that doesn't happen. No second chances. Ditto for the man whore/sauna "boy". Give him your name, phone, e-mail if you wish, but forget him and find another.

Open your eyes, NEXT!

But he does want to work for me, we met basically every week, sometimes twice a week. It's just that he doesn't want to meet me out, and seems to be bored during our encounters. I'd like to know how to change those things. Frankly, knowing how to seduce and charm someone, that's more interesting to me than discarding and replacing.

And let me repeat, he's not replaceable, not easily. People have different kinds of sexual desire and different tastes. I have literally no response to 99% of the boys at 117; the guy in your avatar, who I assume you like...you couldn't pay me to be with him. I don't have the same kind of desire others here do, where I can move from boy to boy...this isn't matter of "love" or "monogamy," but just because I'm so rarely attracted to a guy. In years of looking, at saunas and outside, this guy stands out. I thought about replacing him, but it's not possible. Even if there are great-looking guys in Rio, how many will do it for money? Most of the best-looking ones have more money than I do.

This thing about 12 million is not true; I come to Brazil, not to China or India...there are billions of people there, but I think it would be very hard to find even one I liked in those countries. That's not how these things work. True beauty is extremely rare, beauty that goes along with a manly personality full of vitality, even rarer, and being able to have access to such a guy, extremely rare even in Brazil.

I'd like some practical advice on how to deal with such a boy, not to be told to move along. I've thought of that already, that's easy.

[lookin]

I suppose you've considered knockout drops?

Failing that, why not just ask him what it would take for him to act a little friendlier? In the rather unlikely event he tells you, and it works, problem solved. If not, then he'll remain cold and arrogant, which you say you like.

Bending him to your will and turning him into your lap dog may just make him less desirable, rather than more.

Could it be you just like a challenge? If so, you've got one. My suggestion would be to just enjoy it for what it is.

Besides, if we all knew how to turn the hottest guy in Sao Paolo into our own personal BoyToy, we'd probably be down there doing it instead of sitting around here pontificating on an anonymous message board.

Of course I may be wrong.

[Guest parisrio2000]

I suppose you've considered knockout drops?

Failing that, why not just ask him what it would take for him to act a little friendlier? In the rather unlikely event he tells you, and it works, problem solved. If not, then he'll remain cold and arrogant, which you say you like.

Bending him to your will and turning him into your lap dog may just make him less desirable, rather than more.

Could it be you just like a challenge? If so, you've got one. My suggestion would be to just enjoy it for what it is.

Besides, if we all knew how to turn the hottest guy in Sao Paolo into our own personal BoyToy, we'd probably be down there doing it instead of sitting around here pontificating on an anonymous message board.

Of course I may be wrong.

Haha no knockout drops ...I like it when he's lively. Didn't mean to make him sound dull; he's very funny at times, and full of vitality.

I do like that he's arrogant, cold, independent, yes I like the challenge. That's one of the attractions of boys.

You may be right, and maybe I'm complaining about nothing. I certainly don't want to turn him into a lapdog, and I don't think I could even if I were a billionaire; the kid seems awfully independent, and I'm convinced he doesn't have a regular rich patron yet because he doesn't want to be a kept boy; I know he gets plenty of offers. He seemed absolutely miserable spending the day with that older client from what I could observe. But I'd like to have a bit more fun with him, maybe grab a beer or meet at my apt. where it's more relaxed; and I just don't like feeling like I'm boring someone sexually. Even though I pay straight guys, they do seem to somewhat get into being admired, dominating, and so on. He was into it the first time, but seemed bored later. Maybe it was just because it was the first time, if so...I understand that.

Well yes, you're right, I shouldn't ask for such advice on boards. Maybe I should ask mods to take down this thread! I don't want people going after him ...but I thought there might be experienced boylovers on these threads who know the subtleties of rentboy psychology lol

[ihpguy]

No idea who you are pining for, but trust me, there is another just around the corner for 117, even hotter, with a better attitude, willing to be your beck and call boy, and for less money than you are willing to throw away on whoever or whatever.

The guy in 117 is playing you like a Strad and you are falling for it. When he has emptied you of whatever is in your wallet or on your debit card, perhaps you will take a step back and examine the entire sociological milieu.

In respect to my avatar, not the prettiest guy. Nor the best looking.

He won't stop traffic but then he also won't brake mirrors.

However, and let me qualify this as someone whom might not do 3-ways and 4-ways like you know who, but I do live here permanently and do get around more than a little bit now for over 3 years, have been to almost all of the saunas at one time or another. And without a doubt, this guy in my avatar is the absolute best sex I have had in my life. A true whore. Knows exactly how to please another man. He knows all of the tricks. Heck, he is twenty-seven now and has been turning tricks on the street since he was 15. The true male sexual animal. And a truly terrible person.

[docbr]

From what I read in this forum, Tomcal would be the highest authority to advise you.

Probably already has field experience with the boy. ​

My two cents, this kid should be successful in 117 and probably makes several programs in one night. If he is straight and not looking for a gay relationship, the problem is just a math question - he makes more money on the sauna than being outside with you.

Second point, I've found some boys go jealous of you (or your wallet). So, if you say to him that you think he is "special" in some way to you and besides that you are looking to do other boyfriend like activities outside the sauna maybe you shouldn´t show interest or be with other boys there (what I'm sure most will think it´s absurd!). Remember news run fast there on the sauna scene.

[Guest parisrio2000]

No idea who you are pining for, but trust me, there is another just around the corner for 117, even hotter, with a better attitude, willing to be your beck and call boy, and for less money than you are willing to throw away on whoever or whatever.

The guy in 117 is playing you like a Strad and you are falling for it. When he has emptied you of whatever is in your wallet or on your debit card, perhaps you will take a step back and examine the entire sociological milieu.

In respect to my avatar, not the prettiest guy. Nor the best looking.

He won't stop traffic but then he also won't brake mirrors.

However, and let me qualify this as someone whom might not do 3-ways and 4-ways like you know who, but I do live here permanently and do get around more than a little bit now for over 3 years, have been to almost all of the saunas at one time or another. And without a doubt, this guy in my avatar is the absolute best sex I have had in my life. A true whore. Knows exactly how to please another man. He knows all of the tricks. Heck, he is twenty-seven now and has been turning tricks on the street since he was 15. The true male sexual animal. And a truly terrible person.

I considered that he might be playing me. But I have some reasons to think he isn't. He knows I'd pay him more if we met out, but he doesn't want to. He has my contact info and has never, unlike other boys I knew, tried to contact me with an "emergency" asking me to send money. Although he did charge above the 117 rate, he was upfront about it from the first day and I didn't mind (I would have tipped him well anyway). He just frankly seems indifferent as to whether I'm his client or not, and from my calculations, the kid makes more money per month than I do and is loaded with rich clients. Anyway, I don't think he's trying to manipulate me for money.

I hope you're right, and I do see guys as hot as him on Ipanema beach (not on the gay beach), but it takes a shitload of work to seduce a guy like that. I don't see guys as hot as him at 117.

[Guest parisrio2000]

From what I read in this forum, Tomcal would be the highest authority to advise you.

Probably already has field experience with the boy. ​

My two cents, this kid should be successful in 117 and probably makes several programs in one night. If he is straight and not looking for a gay relationship, the problem is just a math question - he makes more money on the sauna than being outside with you.

Second point, I've found some boys go jealous of you (or your wallet). So, if you say to him that you think he is "special" in some way to you and besides that you are looking to do other boyfriend like activities outside the sauna maybe you shouldn´t show interest or be with other boys there (what I'm sure most will think it´s absurd!). Remember news run fast there on the sauna scene.

He has several clients in a night, plus occasionally clients who pay him for the whole weekend. He makes a lot of money, true, and doesn't need my cash. But about the math question, there was a guy like him I knew a couple of years ago. He also stole all the clients because he was so hot. What I arranged with him was to meet before 117 opened in the afternoon, or on slow days, and I paid him well. I tried the same with this guy, and also offered him more than he's likely to make on a slow night, and he still doesn't want to. Says he's embarrassed to be seen out, which I believe.

I don't want a boyfriend, and I have no delusions. But I haven't seen other boys at 117...not out of "loyalty" to him, but because no one else appealed to me for the moment. In fact I don't even see guys when I'm outside of Brazil. You tell me if it's possible to be with a hot straight guy in the US or Europe...it's not possible, or extremely difficult, and certainly not really possible for money.

[axiom2001]

I'm sorry to be blunt and maybe a bit disrespectful, but I have to ask why anyone would want to spend 5 minutes with someone like that? I just don't get it. I know sometimes it's based on a fantasy that will never be; sometimes it's because we can't respect ourselves so we don't think we deserve any respect so we seek out these types of relationships. But this is not a healthy encounter by any way shape or form. My advice would be to avoid him at all costs and move on. Sorry to be blunt. But these situations I read so often and it slays me that they continue to happen.

I highly agree with Expat's take on this. Forget him and move on. There are other guys whose looks might not be as stellar as the guy you're chasing, but you would able to maintain a semblance of sanity! "Forget him and move on and on and on!

Have a wonderful month in Brasil!

[msclelovr]

"You tell me if it's possible to be with a hot straight guy in the US or Europe...it's not possible, or extremely difficult, and certainly not really possible for money."

Actually it's possible. I know this because in recent years I've played with 3 different, hot, straight guys. I'm a middle-aged man, admittedly lean and gym-fit, and I dress well when going out, but I'm a total top sexually. To my initial surprise, I found that each of the hot straight guys was ready to French-kiss, play 'bottom' for me, and suck cock to completion.

Cash is, of course, what they were seeking and what I was ready to offer as long as my needs were met. I treated them with kindness and respect, and we had a good time together, but they were never interested in going out with me to dinner in a restaurant or to the theatre etc. Our interactions were always in private, in my bed.

I mean this kindly, Parisrio2000, but you seem to forget that this guy is happy to trade sexual energy for cash. That doesn't mean he wants to see you outside a very private arena. If indeed this man is straight, then he prefers women. And he has made plain to you that he does not want to be seen with you, a gay man, in public or going to a love-motel. His actions and his preferences may seem a mystery to you, but your fixation and desire to change his fundamental nature are a mystery to me.

[Guest parisrio2000]

"You tell me if it's possible to be with a hot straight guy in the US or Europe...it's not possible, or extremely difficult, and certainly not really possible for money."

Actually it's possible. I know this because in recent years I've played with 3 different, hot, straight guys. I'm a middle-aged man, admittedly lean and gym-fit, and I dress well when going out, but I'm a total top sexually. To my initial surprise, I found that each of the hot straight guys was ready to French-kiss, play 'bottom' for me, and suck cock to completion.

Cash is, of course, what they were seeking and what I was ready to offer as long as my needs were met. I treated them with kindness and respect, and we had a good time together, but they were never interested in going out with me to dinner in a restaurant or to the theatre etc. Our interactions were always in private, in my bed.

I mean this kindly, Parisrio2000, but you seem to forget that this guy is happy to trade sexual energy for cash. That doesn't mean he wants to see you outside a very private arena. If indeed this man is straight, then he prefers women. And he has made plain to you that he does not want to be seen with you, a gay man, in public or going to a love-motel. His actions and his preferences may seem a mystery to you, but your fixation and desire to change his fundamental nature are a mystery to me.

About the straight guys you meet in the US, I'd like to believe, but I'm skeptical. Where do you meet them? I've been looking for this for a long time, online and in real life, and it's impossible to find basically, especially if you're looking for white guys. I'm not bad looking myself, and in my 20's, and act totally straight, and I can't even find a hot straight guy who'll take money to let me give him a blowjob. So I'm skeptical you found actual straight guys who like to french kiss (which not even the straight boys in Brazil at sauna like to do) or to bottom. In the US if you look for escorts online my experience has been that with very rare exception, the white guys who advertise themselves as straight are actually not straight, and it's very easy to see right away when you meet them that they're not. Maybe as a top you're not as sensitive to a manner that is "off" somehow, but for me it's an instant turnoff. Look, for a straight guy to be willing to take it up the ass, he has to be pretty hard up for cash; and in the US white guys especially are almost never that hard up for cash, nor is there a culture there for selling sex as there is in the Mediterranean or in many third world countries. Anyway, I'm very skeptical, but I'd be curious to know where you met them.

I agree that it's very easy to find "downlow" black guys or Mexicans in the US, but I'm not into either.

About what you say RE this boy I'm talking about, I think there's a misunderstanding of what I mean. I have no intention of changing his nature. But I've met two other straight guys from 117 that I had regular arrangements with, and both were cool with meeting me for a beer. No one who saw us assumed we were gay, I'm around their age and no one in real life guesses I like men, let alone that I'm sexually passive. So that's not the thing...I was very generous to them, I'm good to know, I set them up with tourist girls from Europe, and having a beer is not a date. As for meeting at a motel, in Brazil there are some very discreet ones, so it's not really a problem, but leaving this aside, I strongly doubt the kid would come to my apt. in private either. I've considered what you say, that he's acting this way because he's totally straight and doesn't want to be seen in public, etc., but that's not really the issue here, please see above. Even in our encounters in private I detect a certain hostility and bored disdain from him, so I have to think I did something to turn him off or upset him. I don't want to change his nature, I want to get him to be a bit friendlier and for us to enjoy ourselves more. As I said, the first time was great (and he even agreed to meet me out), it was only later that things changed very suddenly. I assume others here have had similar experiences, so I came to ask for advice, but it seems like the typical response is just to drop such a rentboy and move along to the next. I really don't want to do that, because it's very difficult for me to find a guy I'm actually attracted to. Over the years at 117, he's only the third I really liked or did anything with, and of those three, I liked him the most.

But I agree with you about not trying to change people's nature. As I said, I like that he's cold and arrogant, and I'm attracted to his independence. It would be somewhat of a turnoff if he became too nice or obsequious or whatever. But I don't believe this has to do only with his being straight. He's difficult, and I hate the idea that I'm boring him. Even when a guy is straight, he will usually get off on being admired, dominating another guy, etc.

[TotallyOz]

I'm skeptical you found actual straight guys who like to french kiss (which not even the straight boys in Brazil at sauna like to do) or to bottom.

I have only been with a few hundred guys in Brazil over the last 10 years and I also like straight boys and only in one instance have I found a sauna guy in Brazil (6 cities) that did not french kiss. I have also run into very few that will not bottom given the right incentive.

If you are having guys refuse to kiss, I suggest that you negotiate that up front. I always make sure that the guy will do everything I want if I am going to do a programa with them. I am very specific and I'll ask everything I want them to do as well as rates. I leave nothing to chance and if they don't do it, I'll not pay them. JK. I'll still pay them but I'll not see them again.

[Guest tomcal]

"So I'm skeptical you found actual straight guys who like to french kiss (which not even the straight boys in Brazil at sauna like to do) or to bottom."

I have never met ONE Brazilian straight sauna guy in 12 years and literally HUNDREDS of encounters, that did not french kiss and do it well! That is one of my main requests in initially talking to a suana guy before going up to a room and while 90% will say they don't bottom, once ur in the room and the door is closed they do! this had not only been my experience but two of my traveling companions who go there as often or more often then me as welll I am not saying your are wrong in your experiences BUT don't paint the picture of everyone with the same brush! In fact usually the guys are making out with you in the bar area to entice you to choose them, this is very common! I think the regualar Rio visitors on here like Pauleiro and Lurker would agree! Maybe u have been just extrememly unlucky in who you have been selecting to go with?!

[Guest parisrio2000]

I have only been with a few hundred guys in Brazil over the last 10 years and I also like straight boys and only in one instance have I found a sauna guy in Brazil (6 cities) that did not french kiss. I have also run into very few that will not bottom given the right incentive.

If you are having guys refuse to kiss, I suggest that you negotiate that up front. I always make sure that the guy will do everything I want if I am going to do a programa with them. I am very specific and I'll ask everything I want them to do as well as rates. I leave nothing to chance and if they don't do it, I'll not pay them. JK. I'll still pay them but I'll not see them again.

Yes they will kiss you, but they don't like it, is what I was saying. I've talked to a number of them. They do it for the client...I don't like to do something that they don't like to do. I am sexually submissive and don't enjoy calling the shots.

"So I'm skeptical you found actual straight guys who like to french kiss (which not even the straight boys in Brazil at sauna like to do) or to bottom."

I have never met ONE Brazilian straight sauna guy in 12 years and literally HUNDREDS of encounters, that did not french kiss and do it well! That is one of my main requests in initially talking to a suana guy before going up to a room and while 90% will say they don't bottom, once ur in the room and the door is closed they do! this had not only been my experience but two of my traveling companions who go there as often or more often then me as welll I am not saying your are wrong in your experiences BUT don't paint the picture of everyone with the same brush! In fact usually the guys are making out with you in the bar area to entice you to choose them, this is very common! I think the regualar Rio visitors on here like Pauleiro and Lurker would agree! Maybe u have been just extrememly unlucky in who you have been selecting to go with?!

Please read above...most will french kiss but they don't enjoy it. I am sexually submissive so I like to please. I hate forcing a boy to do something he doesn't like to do.

That goes triple for fucking a straight guy. Not that I have this desire in the first place, but I think you are being cruel. I'm sure some would also dress as women for the money, but I don't like degrading and making a boy do something that doesn't come naturally to him. I feel actually sad for the boys that do passivo for money when they clearly don't want to. I understand it turns some people on to have someone be sad, but I think it's a form of assuming petty power over a boy who may be in a very difficult financial situation.

That said, I have a technique. I test boys...I offer them larger sums to see if they do passivo, and if they agree, I don't do anything with them. There are some guys who will not do passivo for any amount, or for very large sums, and those are the ones I like. I like to admire and worship their bodies.

Yes they will kiss you, but they will not do it gladly. On the other hand, they will take a natural joy in dominating you, which is what I want.

I would like to suggest using gay boys for your pleasures, and not corrupting a straight boy. Submitting to passivo does terrible psychological damage to a normal boy.

[Guest parisrio2000]

There was a very beautiful boy at 117 a couple of years ago, that all the clients wanted. I think the other working boys there were jealous of him because he stole all the clients. He had a really beautiful face, refined, but was very manly, though very young. The first time we met I only wanted to kiss him and make out with him. But he told me he doesn't like this and finds it banal. He was doing it well, but when he told me that, I no longer wanted to make him do something he didn't like. He told me he loved to get blowjobs and fuck, and we had great fun doing that. He seemed to enjoy very much fucking my mouth and "forcing" me to suck his balls. I gladly switched to something that gave him pleasure.

The transaction is already artificial enough with the money and all; why force a boy to do something that doesn't come naturally to him? Most manly men can get off on dominating another man in certain circumstances. I pay them for their beauty and as a tribute to their vitality, not to force them to engage in ridiculous "acting." That said, I've only been with very few boys because I only like the most beautiful ones.

I'm sure the ones with fewer clients and demand will do whatever.

[TotallyOz]

Parisrio, I truly respect everything you say. You are doing what is right and what works for you. But, if you think they like having sex with someone when they are straight any more than they like kissing a guy, you are mistaken. It is a business transaction. It is that simple. They choose their limits. I am sure if they have more choices, they would not be in the sauna. But, it is about money.

When I ran an escort service years ago, I always told my clients NEVER fall in love with an escort. The reason is that it always ends up about money. The same is true with the saunas. For them, it is not about love or sex, it is about money.

That said, I met my current boyfriend from Thailand and I made him a financial offer he could not refuse. He was not an escort. But, the life I offered him was an amazing one. He is straight. He is not gay. He has a 9 year old son. But, he has grown to love and adore me as I am kind and gentle but he is an exception to the rule. That said, I still support him. I still shower him with gifts. He still showers me with 1,000 sweet kisses every night I see him.